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(first-ever comment)

For what it's worth: you can sign your talk page notes by typing a series of four tildes (~~~~) at the end, which will be converted into a link to your user page when the page is saved. - Nunh-huh 06:21, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

DS Violation

Hi, you just violated DS, specifically, "Consensus required: All editors must obtain consensus on the talk page of this article before reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion). This includes making edits similar to the ones that have been challenged. If in doubt, don't make the edit." I suggest you revert or you might face being reported. In addition, there is no consensus on the talk page that I can see for this to be included. Sir Joseph 00:15, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

I have not violated any discretionary sanctions. I "challenged" your edit via reversion with my one revert. The material you chose to delete has been established via editing consensus a few weeks ago.

If you would like to argue for its deletion, feel free to make a case on the talk page.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 00:23, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

No, you reinstated an edit.Sir Joseph 00:25, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

List of concentration and internment camps

You have violated 1RR on the article. Please take the opportunity to self-revert. El_C 04:31, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Ah so I have. I for some reason thought the 1RR was for the same content. I've reverted. How do I go about getting this editor to respect the outcome of the RfC, which clearly states that the section in question should be discussed prior to major edits like the ones they've carried out? I've already asked them on their talk page to do so. --Pinchme123 (talk) 04:48, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure which RfC outcome you refer to because you failed to link to it. El_C 04:51, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

I am referring to this one: Talk:List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps#RFC_about_U.S.-Mexico_border_camps. Further discussion should take place to address any inconsistencies in the article's scope, and to ensure that coverage is appropriately weighted.

My request for discussion was in my bad revert, as well as here: ]

--Pinchme123 (talk) 04:57, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure that excerpt clearly states that the section in question should be discussed prior to major edits. El_C 05:00, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

I've been holding off on cleaning up the section because others didn't seem willing to discuss what was already there. It seems your opinion on the matter then is that there's nothing keeping me from making substantive changes then, correct? --Pinchme123 (talk) 05:05, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Correct. I'm not sure an RfC closure can even mandate such a limit on bold edits by fiat (unless it's integral to the RfC question) — not to mention that I remain unsure that this is what the closer had in mind, though you may wish to seek further clarification from him directly. El_C 05:11, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

The RFC was on whether or not to include that section. You can't mandate that any edit need an RFC, and even if you can (which you can't) I reverted an IP (or I think it was an IP) editor's insertion of a poorly worded paragraph of a recent NEWS event, which doesn't belong and I don't think we need a 1 News Item event in there. I understand you want the detention center in the article, but that doesn't mean you own the article and one time events don't get inserted into encyclopedias. Sir Joseph 05:42, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

El_C has already clarified the content of the RfC summary for me. I haven't claimed ownership over anything; I've only asked for collaboration and reliable sources.

Regarding the material I reverted, I specifically left deleted the paragraph noting the proposed rule change because it doesn't fit with the entry. I only (improperly) reverted your large pare-down because I was under the mistaken impression it should be discussed first. Given that I was wrong about that, I first reverted my mistake and now have gone ahead and further streamlined the paragraph to pare down excessive focus on a minority opinion, added additional sources, and clarified the descriptions of academics in one sentence.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 05:51, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

By totally POVing the entire section? You know you can't do that, right? I suggest you revert. Sir Joseph 05:56, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

And calling the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum a minority opinion, while inserting your own opinion to suit your own opinion is disgusting, and shows your bias. Sir Joseph 05:57, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Never mind, I undid your edit. Calling Yad Vashem or USHMMM a minority opinion just shows that you should not be editing in this area. Sir Joseph 05:59, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

You provided two sources of statements claiming that the "concentration camp" label shouldn't be applied to anything other than the Holocaust; hundreds of scholars responded to that specific claim by demanding a retraction. The literal existence of the Misplaced Pages article in question refutes the claim that the "concentration camp" label can't be anything beyond the Holocaust. So, to respect those minority opinions, I left them referenced along with their sources, while accurately giving weight to the literal hundreds of scholars who disagreed. That isn't POV, that's rational description. And yes, even respected authorities sometimes express minority opinions. --Pinchme123 (talk) 06:07, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Listen, we all know deep down in our hears that people only call them concentration camps because AOC tweeted about it and because Trump is President. When Clinton was President or Obama was saying the same stuff about illegal immigration, nobody complained. So I don't really care about the sources because they are politicizing something that is clear that it's not a concentration camp. People don't cross a border to walk into a concentration camp that Congress can appropriate funds if they want to increase funding if they want to. That's not a concentration camp. Anyone who says it is has lost their moral values. Sir Joseph 06:16, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Trump administration migrant detentions

If you feel like reading this. starship.paint (talk) 13:37, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Apology

Hi Pinchme123, I would like to take the time to sincerely apologise for my comments at the School bus talkpage as well as for the edit summary,
My heart was in the right place but I could've and should've been much calmer and a lot less confrontational - I simply felt like I wasn't being listened too and then to be told "Discuss it on the talkpage" was the icing on the cake for me,
Regardless of that I shouldn't of said what I did on the talkpage and again sincerely apologise for my comments,
I hope we can work together in the future and under much better circumstances too,
I wish you all the very best and hope you enjoy editing here :),
Take care, Thanks, Regards, –Davey2010 20:59, 24 January 2020 (UTC),

Hi @Davey2010: no worries. We all get frustrated from time to time and sometimes that spills over, so I understand. I also get that we disagree on this specific subject and that my position was frustrating to you. I hope we can continue to work towards a mutually acceptable solution! So you have no worries from me, it's in our past. All the best. --Pinchme123 (talk) 21:16, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Move some trucks?

I am trying to move some trucks here. I wonder if I could get you to take a look. I believe I am clear but it's just the same old people and positions. I can't get any "new eyes" to look at it objectively. I would really appreciate it if you would. No answer needed. Thank you. Sammy D III (talk) 01:58, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your "new eyes". Of course I like your post, but the important thing is just that you looked to start with. Thank you. Sammy D III (talk) 03:59, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Spliting discussion for ]

An article that you have been involved with ( Member state of the European Union ) has content that is proposed to be removed and move to another article ( Member states of the European Union ). If you are interested, please visit the discussion at Talk:Member state of the European Union#Splitting proposal . Thank you. Doug Mehus T·C 23:31, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Anthropology reverts

I should have left an edit summary. HKongbott is indefinitely blocked as a sock puppet. Using this User name, added content (images and text) to dozens of articles, for many of which not really relevant or unduly excessive content. Much has been reverted under WP:BANREVERT. I leave to you to reassess what I deleted and decide whether appropriate for the article or not. David notMD (talk) 15:57, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Ah ok, thank you for letting me know. Given this, I'll give the images a second look. --Pinchme123 (talk) 16:44, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

What's wrong with the ref?

Your undo here. Please explain. 2001:14BA:984A:F200:0:0:0:8EA (talk) 18:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello IP. The reference is for page 29 of that particular book. Consulting that specific page, there is nothing to support your added claim, "Internment of large groups is a fairly new phenomenon beginning in the 19th century." I think my disagreement with this lies in what you perceive to be a similarity between what that reference is used for - the statement "Although the first example of civilian internment may date as far back as the 1830s" - and your inserted statement. Your statement is broadly declarative; it is an assertion that this particular practice is traced precisely to the early 19th century. The statement that the source is supporting is narrowly declarative and qualified; it is supporting a given example of internment from around the 1830s, but does not then assert that this is for-sure the earliest example (hence the word "may"). The source supports the narrow and qualified declaration, but not the broad declaration. Do I make sense? --Pinchme123 (talk) 19:35, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

I suppose you kinda sorta do. I think my statement is good and correct but needs some other reference. 2001:14BA:984A:F200:0:0:0:8EA (talk) 13:25, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes exactly. --Pinchme123 (talk) 16:53, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

BLP Problems at Seattle Liberation Front

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

I could use some help cleaning up some problems at Seattle Liberation Front. I don't have rollback privileges and an IP keeps adding material sourced to one of the article subject's personal website. It's especially thorny because it's in relation to the criminal trial for seven defendants (I am not aware that any of them have passed away, so the entire section about the criminal trial is presumably under BLP Guidelines). I've gone through twice ( and ) to remove offending content changes, and left a Welcome template on one of their IP pages to encourage them to get more info about editing in general and Reliable Sources specifically. They've re--added the offending source once again.

I am new to BLP issues and so I don't know where to go to quickly have this cleaned up. They keep adding content spread out over a ton of edits, I don't have rollback privileges, so I don't really want to have to go through so many edits each time they violate BLP.

Thank you in advance!

--Pinchme123 (talk) 16:37, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Minor addendum, they also apparently have cited content shared via personal document cloud service? --Pinchme123 (talk) 16:41, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello Pinchme123 - I may be the person you are complaining about. Since my first edits, I now think I understand that your concern was proper citation, which I believe I have adhered to since then. I have made numerous edits because there was incorrect information, and I have provided proper references (including newspaper articles and trial transcript citations) for everything I have changed. There is still more work to be done, because the original writing (as I found it) was a mess, with wrong information and things out of order. Please state your specific concerns here, and I'll try to work with you. BTW, two of the seven have died, one over 40 years ago and the other recently. 66.62.91.36 (talk) 06:22, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello IP. The BLP-violating sources are still included in the article and need to be removed immediately. That two of the individuals who are subjects of the section have died does not change this and the source needs to be removed completely. I was really hoping someone could have come by to clean this up quickly, because BLP violations fall on the more serious side of Misplaced Pages concerns, but no matter, I will be reverting your edits today.

The sources in question needs to be removed entirely. First, it is against BLP policy to use self-published sources (see WP:BLPSPS).

Secondly, your edits using something published via One Drive as a citation are also a major problem. I think what you've done is self-published an alleged court transcript. Even if the transcript were authentic - which cannot be verified if it is self-published - this not only constitutes Original Research, which is disallowed on Misplaced Pages articles (see WP:OR), but is also a direct violation of the BLP policies on using court transcripts as citations for any assertions (WP:BLPPRIMARY).

--Pinchme123 (talk) 15:40, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

• I've semi-protected the page for two weeks based on the number of anon editors involved here. I'm also going to grant you rollback, though Twinkle also has a rollback-type functionality. I think you're handling this just fine. If the disruption continues after the two weeks, let us know at WP:RFPP. Katie 16:29, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Well thank you Katie! And thank you for giving me a heads-up about RFPP. --Pinchme123 (talk) 17:08, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

How to deal with forum-shopping

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

Where does one go to get help with Forum-shopping (ongoing DRN; and newly-opened RFC)? Is it to the already-existing forum, or does it need to be taken to a specific noticeboard? I've already noted the issue in the RFC, but want to make sure it is seen by the right people.

If your issue involves editor conduct, and is unable to be resolved, it may be brought to WP:AN. 331dot (talk) 19:35, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Edit warring at Internment

Your recent editing history at Internment shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.--Astral Leap (talk) 07:20, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

With due respect, Astral Leap, I did not "repeatedly content back to how think it should be," I protected premature editing to content that was currently under an RFC that was not properly ended. And no edit-warring occurred. If you think I was edit-warring, why didn't you take me to the proper noticeboard? Further, it takes two to edit-war; did you post this notice on the other user's page as well? If not, I'll assume this was an innocent mistake on your part and disregard the unintentional insult.

Regarding WP:RFC, one who opens an RFC can only close it themselves by withdrawing it. It takes another editor, usually an uninvolved neutral third party, to determine the closure of an RFC, even without a formal close declaration. I'm glad someone finally came and did just that.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 15:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message

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MOSLQ at Immigration detention in the United States

WP:MOSLQ says

If the quotation is a single word or a sentence fragment, place the terminal punctuation outside the closing quotation mark. When quoting a full sentence, the end of which coincides with the end of the sentence containing it, place terminal punctuation inside the closing quotation mark.

FYI. I don't see any ambiguity. (bold added) --Jeremyb (talk) 01:53, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

And yet, the sentence is an entirely rewritten sentence from the article, with only parts of it properly quoted, and with the final of multiple fragments also being the final quoted fragment, thus bringing the period into play. There is nothing in the policy you're citing that deals with such cases, nor is there anything in the literature cited in the WP policy page that deals with such cases. Definitely ambiguous.

Also, looking further into it, the sentence as written on WP is falsely quoting the lawyer by attributing paraphrases from the article to her as if she said them in court. Instead of quibbling with me over whether or not there's ambiguity, perhaps we should instead focus our efforts on fixing mis-attributed quotes?

--Pinchme123 (talk) 05:04, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Work the tables of Post-election lawsuits related to the 2020 United States presidential election splits

BIG THANKS for making the tables on the articles I split out better! I would of done them myself but as I'm a bit new of a Wikipedian I'm still learning how to do some things. Coming from Excel these tables work completely different. TheBigRedTank (talk) 22:03, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

TheBigRedTank: Sure thing. To be honest, I just looked at the difference in the code between the tables you made and the main on the page where the data came from and just added the bits that weren't there. I didn't add the color though because it seems like, in these smaller tables, the color isn't as crucial. --Pinchme123 (talk) 22:31, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Pinchme123: Still thanks, I'm invariably going to make the mistakes on the Wisconsin and Georgia splits so if you could keep an eye out for those it would be much appreciated! I would agree on the color comment as well. TheBigRedTank (talk) 22:37, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

(Case for Georgia lawsuits page)

Hello, You wrote "it will need to be covered by a reputable source with confirmation in that source that the case has indeed been filed before it is added". The reference to publicrecordsaccess.fultoncountyga.gov does show the receipt of the case by the court, if you look on the page at NOTICE OF FILING showing that the case was filed and fees paid as of 12/23/2020 4:21 PM. I do not understand why this is not sufficient. Viktorikona (talk) 22:35, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

References

1. https://publicrecordsaccess.fultoncountyga.gov/app/RegisterOfActions/#/33974C4827BAD854BB20FC16AD469EDB36FE1BE5465F62DFCD7F5F2F784C176FF1C4E91E2012B31ECE152FB9AA0E16C1/anon/portalembed

Hello Viktorikona. The webpage you have linked to would at-best be considered a primary source indicating a fee was submitted to the court and that documents were sent to the court for filing. This does not confirm that the court case was accepted and added to the court's docket. I have looked at docket trackers and cannot find a record of this case, nor can I find any reputable publication that has written about it. The one other source you provided appears to be a less-than-reputable outlet that publishes press release claims without any additional verification (and then reposts those same articles verbatim on other websites branded in a similar fashion, e.g. The Michigan Star, The Tennessee Star, The Ohio Star, etc.).

If this court case is accepted and gains enough attention to receive reporting in reputable publications, then it might be notable enough to include in the Georgia article. But to be honest, that reputable coverage would need to clearly indicate the connection to the ongoing legal activities of Trump admin and allies because, even if the case has already been accepted, right now it's just a few local citizens suing a few other local citizens, which is hardly notable. --Pinchme123 (talk) 23:22, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

I found the docket number at both the Superior Court site and at www.docketalarm.com which is 2020CV343938. Are you saying that is not a docket? I need to understand this for future use. Viktorikona (talk) 23:52, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

First, thank you so much for this docket tracker! I didn't know about it before and am glad to add it to the list I can check.

Second, please use the indenting feature when engaging in discussion on my talk page, so that things stay nice and orderly. It's very easy: just add a number of colons (":") before your comment, to indent it. Use the number of colons that the previous comment in the section used, plus one. So, when replying to this comment, you'll use four colons. If creating multiple paragraphs, put the same number of colons before each paragraph to line them all up.

Ok, about your response. You seem to be stuck on the docket tracker specifically, but please read the rest of my previous comment as well. Just because some random case is listed in a docket doesn't make it notable enough to include on Misplaced Pages. And us Misplaced Pages editors only decide what stuff to include based upon what other reputable sources deem worthy enough to cover extensively. Right now, all of the lawsuits included on all of the various pages about the post-election legal challenges by Trump and his allies have been covered extensively enough by reputable sources, which demonstrates that they're both linked to the effort and notable enough to be covered on Misplaced Pages (at least for now). No sources have even confirmed that the case you and I are discussing has even been accepted by the court; no reputable sources have even, as far as I can tell, written about the existence of the case at all. So please don't focus all of your effort on whether or not a docket tracker lists a particular case. What is far more important is whether or not reputable sources have written about the case.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 00:54, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I understand all of that, and an not planning on posting on it now. However, I would like an answer to my question: "Are you saying that is not a docket? I need to understand this for future use." Viktorikona (talk) 05:35, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Specific questions about specific sources are best asked at the reliable sources noticeboard. My gut is that a discussion there will find that this site is a primary source of all types of public records from the court; a docket tracker is a secondary source that reports a subset of the kinds of records found on such sites. --Pinchme123 (talk) 06:41, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I think that when you wrote "This does not confirm that the court case was accepted and added to the court's docket." was incorrect, so I want to be sure, especially since my source was the court record search and showed all of the associated documents with Case Number 2020CV34393 and showing Open status. I believe that it shows that the court case was accepted and added to the court's docket. Viktorikona (talk) 12:33, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

What you "believe" has no bearing on whether or not a source supports a statement of fact or not. Which is why Misplaced Pages is built primarily with reliable secondary sources; the experts who write secondary sources based upon primary sources (like the court records website) tell the public what their expert evaluation is, and then us Misplaced Pages editors rely on that expertise to determine what can and cannot be reported on Misplaced Pages.

At this point I have no other advice to offer you. If you want to productively contribute to Misplaced Pages, I suggest you carefully read WP:RS (as I suggested on your own talk page) and then proceed from there.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 16:29, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. The only unresolved question is that you said "This does not confirm that the court case was accepted and added to the court's docket." However it does show the docket number, so I asked you why you said it was not. Viktorikona (talk) 18:17, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

At this point I have no other advice to offer you. If you want to productively contribute to Misplaced Pages, I suggest you carefully read WP:RS (as I suggested on your own talk page) and then proceed from there. --Pinchme123 (talk) 18:25, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Gohmert et al. v. Pence Re: judicial quote

You wrote on January 3 "Undid revision 998126070 by Viktorikona (talk) this content has already been removed twice before". This is incorrect for it was removed once by 82.20.240.157 with the stated personal judgement "all reality-based commentators agree that if the standing issue were rectified it would also fail on the merits", not even providing any neutral sources for the consensus. The actual quote I added was that of the judicial decision as given in the cited article: "We express no view on the underlying merits or on what putative party, if any, might have standing." Viktorikona (talk) 21:16, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

This is a matter for discussion on the article's talk page, which I already stated in the part of my edit summary that you've neglected to quote back at me. But I strongly suggest you consult the page's full edit history, because this quote was indeed removed twice before the reversion you're here complaining about. --Pinchme123 (talk) 21:23, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

April 2021

Your recent editing history at Chad shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. (CC) Tbhotch 04:59, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

1. Cite error: The named reference Gerstein-453387 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).