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Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments and review the FAQ before commenting, and read through the list of highlighted discussions below before starting a new one: Minaj's birthdate has been discussed here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. The current consensus is to list 1982 as her birthday. Please establish consensus before changing this information.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2011, 2012, and 2013.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 4 times. The weeks in which this happened: January 13 to 19, 2013 January 20 to 26, 2013 February 24 to March 2, 2013 March 3 to 9, 2013

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2021

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Hello, I would like to add into Nicki Minaj's occupation section - Model - Nicki Minaj has signed with Wilhelmina Models' celebrity division along with other starts like Demi Lovato and Nick Jonas and she signed other major modeling contacts one of them is with Fendi, she has her own brand "Fendi Prints on" and on October 14th 2019, Nicki Minaj and Fendi released their first clothing collaboration. The full collection has sold out online in under a week, the collection is worth a total of over $10M. Firstbarb (talk) 01:43, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

@Firstbarb:  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.   melecie   t 01:45, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

RfC: lead section

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I'm trying to reach consensus for a cleaner, polished, and not over-stuffed lead section for this good article. Comparing to music articles like Rihanna, Bruno Mars, Lady Gaga, Beyoncé, and Taylor Swift, where phrases like "best selling" are included once and later in the introduction, honorific nicknames are avoided per wp:global, and peacocky terms are not repeated over and over again like here. This is my proposal; open to comments. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 02:37, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

If they want to comment, pinging experienced users Drmies, Beeblebrox, MarioSoulTruthFan, CAMERAwMUSTACHE. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 02:37, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

As I brought Rihanna to good article status, one you pointed out, I think we can tell the problem on Nicki's lead is that it cherry picks accomplishments to suit her audience instead of summarizing the article as it's supposed to. And useless trivia about how she reportedly charges $500,000 for a feature should be as far away from the lead as possible. Trillfendi (talk) 02:58, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Missy Elliot, Lil' Kim and Mary J. Blige have been called Queen of Rap, so let's not have that in the lead section about Minaj. The sources are horrible, anyway, with "Queen of Rap" only appearing in the Rolling Stone headline, not explained anywhere in the article body. Obviously an editorial intrusion.

I am in favor of a straightforward lead section that quickly and succinctly tells the reader why the person is important. Leaner is meaner. Binksternet (talk) 03:06, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree completely with Binksternet, Cornerstonepicker, and Trillfendi in this matter. Popular music comes up with an endless stream of "big stars" ever since my parents were teenagers 75 years ago, every one of which deserves serious coverage in an encyclopedia with 6.3 million articles. But all this "king" or "queen" or "prince" or "duke" or "princess" of pop, rock, rap, soul, gospel, folk, country, bluegrass or whatever is a diversion from these artist's genuine accomplishments, which should be described neutrally so that readers not editors can draw their own conclusions. Cullen Let's discuss it 03:57, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

All four sources in the current article mention Minaj as the queen of rap, queen of hip hop, hip hop royalty, etc. I don't know what you're getting at. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 05:11, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

The proposed revision is definitely cleaner and much more succinct than the current wording which includes a lot of positive wording that feels weighted heavier than it should. The Queen of Rap thing is definitely not sourced enough to be in the lead and I feel like four sources (one of which is Genius and one is NPR) is not exactly “several Western media outlets”. I mean, she’s good but she’s not exactly King of Pop good in terms of sourcing that nickname. The proposed revision gives a better summary of her career and stays neutral. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 04:00, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

- Oppose. I'm all up for reworking or changing the lead to better fit policy, but the "Queen of Rap" honorific title has been sourced multiple times by so many articles, and you can't just spam the policy of WP:GLOBAL to get rid of it. Minaj is referred to as the Queen of Rap by both American and European journalists, so to remove it otherwise, like User:Cybertrip said, can distinguish the relevance and impact of Minaj within their world specifically. Also, you didn't really ping the people that actually consistently edit this article, interestingly enough. paging @AshMusique, Maxwell King123321, Cybertrip, and Yikes2004: for their thoughts. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 05:10, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

From my point of view, those titles such as Queen or king of this or that can be used while covered by reliable sources such as NPR, USA Today, and RS (already in the article), if more are available even better, I don't consider Genius the best source around. However, I would implement that tile somewhere in the article along with the reasoning for that, why is RS, USA Today, and NPR called her that? Most followed rappers on Instagram could only be included in the article, if so. I do believe the second paragraph needs to be summarised a bit. I would also remove the documentary bit on HBO, unless of course, it receives high praise from media outlets and awards, otherwise only in the main article. I do believe the biggest problem here is a lack of summarisation in the lead and some "unnecessary" info as well. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 11:15, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I think all points here are valid. However, "honorific names" are not "peacocky terms" as they are used on most celebrity pages but in their "legacy" sections. Including them in Minaj's lead seems premature as other prominent artists such as Beyoncé, Taylor Swift or Rihanna do not include them. However it would be worth keeping it in the legacy section. On that same note, there seems to be way too many Billboard achievements in the lead which is not needed here and is basically taken from the "Achievements" section. I agree that the biggest problem here is "a lack of summarisation in the lead". Maxwell King 12:31, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I don’t think anyone is advocating for the nickname to be removed entirely. Just that it does not belong in the lead and should be in legacy instead. Genius isn’t exactly the best source for this kind of thing especially since the headline is written in what feels like peacocky way, and the Rolling Stone article only uses the phrase (and technically they say Queen of Hip-Hop not Queen of Rap) in the headline, not the body. Either way, calling four sources, not all of which are 100% reliable for this, “several Western media outlets” feels like a slight exaggeration at least for the lead. Considering much larger artists with much better covered nicknames don’t even have this in the lead, there shouldn’t be any issue moving it to legacy. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 14:14, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree with MarioSoulTruthFan, there's been no news on the documentary since 2020 and I doubt it's lead-worthy material. However, I definitely do think that the "Queen of Rap" title should be in the lead. Interestingly enough, cornerstonepicker seems to have no problem with calling other female rappers "The Queen of Rap" , So why is it only bad when it comes to Nicki? I just find it interesting. The "Queen of Rap" title should be in the lead in my opinion, since there's plenty of sources that again call her the Queen of Rap, especially in the mentioned Legacy section. So there's no problem sourcing it, or whatever, I just think that it deserves to be in the lead since it is a notable title for Minaj. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 19:53, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

As I understand that's an equal issue, so in that other article I moved it to legacy section. offtopic, but "already stated in the article" (?) was a logic used once for that type of removal. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 22:11, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I have no issue with artists such as Elliott and Kim having the "Queen of Rap" title in their leads, since they are seasoned rap veterans who have gotten a lot of praise. However, I don't see why people are so against it with Minaj specifically if several western media outlets have called her the "Queen of Rap" multiple times. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 09:05, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree with the previous comment. While flowerily language and puffery should be avoided in the lead. However, if one is recognized by multiple reputable sources regularly by such terms such as "Queen of Rap", then such a term belongs in the lead. Jurisdicta (talk) 04:53, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree with this. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 01:21, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I also believe that saying something like "she has occasionally been referred to as the "Queen of Rap" in the lede and then hyperlink that to Honorific nicknames in popular music isn't that detrimental to the prose, nor is it in any way incorrect. Yes, those kind of honorifics often overlap and are applied to several people in the same genre, but that's just how they work and there's no reason to exclude them from this article and not others. Besides, there are plenty of other things that could be improved in this lede. PraiseVivec (talk) 19:17, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree with praisevivec that this is common practice in this industry. Jurisdicta (talk) 04:30, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

• Strong support and make even more concise Even the proposed alternative is far too long in my opinion. We should also cut down on references in the lead per WP:LEDECITE. If it's sourced in the body and not controversial, no reason to clutter the lead with references. ~ HAL333 20:38, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

  Honorific nicknames seem to be a standard, however, for lots of musicians articles, including but not limited to Justin Bieber and Chris Brown. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 01:24, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

• Comment I would say it is an improvement but could probably do with more trimming, but both versions have MOS:CITELEAD issues. Neutral on the "Queen of Rap" question, can understand it is a bit more dubious than say MJ's "King of Pop" but I am not so informed on this issue. Not watching please ping. Regards  Spy-cicle💥  21:59, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
• Apart from some minor things that could be fixed, the lede is perfectly fine to me, although the Instagram thing should definitely not be in the lede. The "Queen of rap" title/reference is a good introduction to the article, and is sourced appropriately, and is for sure not "peacocky" or even used in that sense. AshMusique (talk) 10:47, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

New proposed lead

I've compiled ideas and suggestions of this RfC per majority, so I'm proposing this entry. cc:EdJohnston. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 17:03, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Just for agree/disagree/or any extra suggestion, tagging Cullen328, Beeblebrox, Binksternet, MarioSoulTruthFan, CAMERAwMUSTACHE, HAL333, Spy-cicle, Trillfendi, et al. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 01:34, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Born in the Saint James district of Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago and raised in Queens of New York City, she gained public recognition after releasing the mixtapes Playtime Is Over (2007), Sucka Free (2008), and Beam Me Up Scotty (2009). Early in her career, Minaj became known for her colorful costumes and wigs, her distinct flow, and the use of alter egos and accents, primarily British cockney. In 2010, Minaj released her debut studio album, Pink Friday (2010), which was certified triple-platinum by RIAA, and peaked at number-one on the Billboard 200 chart. It yielded Minaj's first top-five single, "Super Bass", which peaked at number three, at the time becoming the highest-charting solo song by a female rapper since 2002. Her second album, Pink Friday: Roman Reloaded (2012), saw Minaj move towards a dance-pop and pop rap sound. The album debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, with its lead single, "Starships", peaking at number five on the Hot 100. Minaj's third and fourth studio albums, The Pinkprint (2014) and Queen (2018), marked a departure from her previous style and a return to her hip hop roots. The former's second single, "Anaconda", peaked at number two on the Hot 100.

Her feature on the remix of Doja Cat's "Say So" and her collaboration with 6ix9ine, "Trollz", both released in 2020, marked her first and second number-one singles on the Hot 100, respectively, with the latter making her the second female rapper to debut at number one, following Lauryn Hill in 1998. Including features, Minaj is the female artist with the second-most entries on the Hot 100, behind singer-songwriter Taylor Swift, with each accumulating over 100. She has nineteen top 10 singles on the chart, the most for any female rapper so far, with four of those being solo songs. Her collaboration with Karol G, "Tusa", became the longest-running number-one single on the Argentina Hot 100, having spent six months at number one on the chart. Her 2021 re-release of her 2009 mixtape, Beam Me Up Scotty, debuted at number two on the Billboard 200, the highest-debut for a female rap mixtape.

Notes

1. Minaj claims she immigrated to the United States "illegally" and it is unclear what her American citizenship status is.

References

1. Penrose, Nerisha (June 21, 2018). "Nicki Minaj Weighs In on Children Border Crisis: 'I Came to This Country as an Illegal Immigrant'". Billboard.
2. Grigoriadis, Vanessa (October 7, 2015). "The Passion of Nicki Minaj". The New York Times. Retrieved June 9, 2020.
3. "Nicki Minaj - Rotten Tomatoes". www.rottentomatoes.com. Retrieved 2021-08-01.
4. Sisario, Ben (2021-03-08). "For Women in Music, Equality Remains Out of Reach". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2021-08-12.
5. "13 Lyrics That Prove Nicki Minaj Is One of the Greatest Rappers of All Time". Mic. Retrieved March 9, 2018.
6. "How TikTok made Nicki Minaj cool again (by a reformed Barb)". NME. June 2, 2021. Retrieved June 3, 2021.
7. Cite error: The named reference NYT20120330 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
8. "American album certifications – Nicki Minaj – Pink Friday". Recording Industry Association of America. Retrieved December 18, 2010.
9. Cirisano, Tatiana (November 21, 2019). "Songs That Defined the Decade: Nicki Minaj's 'Super Bass'". Billboard. Retrieved May 11, 2021. ...It reached No. 3 on the Billboard Hot 100, where it became not only Minaj's then-biggest hit, but the highest-charting rap hit by a solo female since Missy Elliott's "Work It" nearly a decade earlier.
10. "Nicki Minaj's 'Roman Reloaded' Debuts at No. 1 on Billboard 200". Billboard. Retrieved April 23, 2021.
11. "Nicki Minaj Reacts to Going Number One in 2020 — Again". PAPER. June 22, 2020. Retrieved June 22, 2020.
12. McIntyre, Hugh. "Yet Again, Nicki Minaj And Taylor Swift Swap The Honor Of Being The Woman With The Most Hot 100 Hits Of All Time". Forbes. Retrieved 2021-08-09.
13. Nilles, Billy (December 8, 2020). "The Ultimate Ranking of Nicki Minaj's 19 Top 10 Hits". E!. Retrieved March 9, 2021.
14. "Karol G and Nicki Minaj's "Tusa" Hits 13 Weeks on Top of Argentina Hot 100". Billboard. April 16, 2020. Retrieved March 28, 2021.
15. "J. Cole Collects Sixth No. 1 Album on Billboard 200 Chart With 'The Off-Season'". Billboard. Retrieved May 24, 2021.
16. Nkanjeni, Unathi (September 6, 2019). "Nicki Minaj quits the rap game: 'I've decided to retire & have my family'". TimesLIVE. Retrieved May 12, 2020.
17. "Top R&B/Hip-Hop Artists - Decade-End". Billboard. Retrieved April 26, 2021.
18. "Top Artists - Decade-End". {{cite magazine}}: Cite magazine requires |magazine= (help)
19. "The 100 Most Influential People 2016". Time magazine. Retrieved April 22, 2016.

• Agree. Bringing in the first billion views was a good move, along with the trimmed first paragraph. Binksternet (talk) 01:55, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
• Agree. I’d change “second female artist with the most entries” to “female artist with the second-most entries” but other than that it looks fine. Definitely a lot more trim and I like the inclusion of her breaking the record in Argentina as that shows a notable achievement outside the US as well as the inclusion of her acting career as that gives a look into what she’s done outside of music. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 02:26, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
• Agree I am far from an expert on Nicki Minaj, and watch this page mostly to nip disruption in the bud. But this proposed new lead seems to do a very good job of summarizing her career to date. Cullen Let's discuss it 03:16, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
• Strong oppose / change some things Again, lead does not seem to mention that multiple news sources have called her the current Queen of Rap. I would suggest adding it in the first sentence of the fourth paragraph: If multiple news sources have called her the Queen of Rap, omitting this from the lead is simply a bad idea. And again, interestingly, you didn't ping the people that actually consistently edit this article. Pinging experienced editors @AshMusique, Maxwell King123321, Cybertrip, and Yikes2004: for their thoughts. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 06:11, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

  Forgot to ping @VersaceSpace and Blarb48: . Apologies "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 05:46, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

• Light oppose. No need to remove the "Queen of Rap" line completely. Apart from the uneven paragraphs and the eyesore that is the piles of messy refs, its good! I'm willing to improve on that part (and hopefully prevent the oncoming risk of WP:GAR). —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 09:29, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
• Comment It looks much better. If that all that information is included in the body of the article, then all the sources can be removed. As we try to avoid them as much as possible in the lead. Regarding the most controversial topic "Queen of Rap". Maybe a mention since RS, NPR, and USA Today call her that. Something in the vein of "Minaj has been mention as the "Queen of Rap" by RS, USA Today and NPR". MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 10:06, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
• Comment For the record RS (at least the article cited) calls her the Queen of Hip-Hop, not the Queen of Rap, and doesn't use either phrase in the body of the article, just the headline (see WP:HEADLINE). If the Queen of Rap thing goes in the lead it should be phrased like "her success in the United States has led some publications to dub her the Queen of Rap". Again, I don't think this belongs the lead, though, as I'm not sure this nickname is used as much by other sources as it is by Minaj herself and her fanbase. I'm trying to find more sources and it's pretty mixed (with a lot of tabloid nonsense thrown in). A lot of results for Queen of Rap use the phrase in a direct quote from Minaj. Complex and HipHopDX even refer to her as the "self-proclaimed Queen of Rap." That's not to say I came up empty, either, there's some better sources such as BBC, Uproxx, and Rap-Up. Of course they could be using that as the nickname she gives herself. Like I said, there's a lot of sources where Queen of Rap only appears in a quote from Minaj herself. Still unsure if this is lead-worthy but not nearly as opposed to it as I was when the only sources included Genius and a RS headline. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 23:21, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

  The Rolling Stone is intended as an interview article with her, so it makes sense that it wouldn't be mentioned, since it's an interview. Another reliable source is USA Today, "Here are photos of the queen of rap through the years." The Conversation, "The queen of rap’s response is perfectly on brand." and I think this NME article can also apply, although I'm a bit more meh on this since it's not an outright quote: "Whether you insist that she can’t be the Queen of Rap you cannot deny that the queen from Queens has single-handedly refreshed the idea of what a rapping woman is."

  Another great source is GQ. "Since that day, I have never been the same. Minaj’s verse contains multitudes, underlining exactly why she remains the indisputable Queen of Rap." So yes, multiple prominent news sources do consistently call her the Queen of Rap for her talent and flow. I think it's fair to put this in the lead, with all these sources in the current article and all the other sources I linked in this reply. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 05:17, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Agree with CAMERAwMUSTACHE. In the lead section, let the artist's accomplishments speak for themselves. These are examples when a name/a nickname is indisputable, widely, and not a push:

• The New York Times: Michael Jackson, the ‘King of Pop’
• Recording Academy: 10 Reasons Michael Jackson Became The King Of Pop
• Billboard: 'Madonna' Turns 30: A Look Back at the Queen of Pop's Debut Album
• The New York Times: New York Today: Madonna’s Metropolis. We decided to take a tour of the Queen of Pop’s New York
• The New York Times (2007): The Queen of Soul takes control (Aretha Franklin)
• The New York Times (2011): Long Live Aretha, the Queen of Soul
• Washington Post (2012): Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul, talks about her life and legacy

Cornerstonepicker (talk) 06:52, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Since you love quoting NYT so much: "Nicki Minaj, Always in Control — The queen of hip-hop has fought her way to the top of the music industry and never made compromises." If GQ, NYT, BBC and RS all state Minaj as the queen of hip-hop and the queen of rap, what's your issue with calling her the queen of rap then? "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 07:20, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Just to clarify that my point was the multiple publications from the same top-tier sources, repeating the nickname. Btw that link is Style Magazine, not The New York Times staff: T is not a supplement of The New York Times Magazine, but a distinct publication with its own staff. It's not about pushing it. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 19:38, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Here's some reputable western news sources that call her the "Queen of Rap", or "Queen of Hip-Hop" as an honorable nickname

1. BBC: "Nicki Minaj: is the Queen of Rap's crown fading?
2. LA Times: "The rapper has further cemented herself as the reigning queen of hip-hop."
3. Rolling Stone: "The new queen of hip-hop also discusses her five-year plan."
4. MTV: "The Queen of hip-hop addresses situations with a specificity.."
5. GQ: "Minaj’s verse contains multitudes, underlining exactly why she remains the indisputable Queen of Rap."
6. The Daily Beast: "As Nicki began her full-time reign as the queen of hip-hop..."
7. The Daily Beast: "Hip-hop’s reigning queen enlists Lil Wayne, Drake, and even Remy Ma’s ex-best friend.."
8. XXL: "In short, Nicki is the undisputed Queen of Hip-Hop."
9. Mic: " had critical success with pop songs like "Super Bass" and "The Night Is Still Young," but what makes her the Queen of Rap are her more hip-hop focused anthems.."
10. Mic: "...there have also been calls for the queen of rap to locate the nearest grip and hold it with all of her might."
11. The Source: "Just in case you needed a reminder why is the current reigning Queen of Hip Hop."
12. Uproxx: " racked up ten Grammy nominations during the 2010s and has been dubbed by many as the “queen of rap.”
13. Uproxx: "After spending a decade as the queen of hip-hop, Nicki Minaj has apparently decided to abdicate her throne"
14. Nylon: "Minaj dominated for years consecutively, as the reigning Queen of Rap, a title proudly boasted throughout her discography."
15. The New Yorker: "The album’s first expletive belonged to the then-reigning queen of hip-hop, Nicki Minaj, on “Side to Side,”
16. Interview: "The queen of rap has emerged like a dungeon dragon via an Instagram post."
17. The Conversation: "The queen of rap’s response is perfectly on brand: Minaj wields rap’s hypermasculinity to emasculate and scorn the men who continue to benefit from hip hop’s everyday misogyny."
18. Bustle: "No one does pink quite like the queen of rap."
19. HipHopDX: "On Tuesday, the Queen of Hip Hop cast her vote in the age-old debate.."
20. NY Daily News: The reigning queen of hip hop, who has carved herself a well-defined niche in the male-dominated rap game, explained she took lessons from other artists and simply put in the hustle to get where she is now.

With this many publications and sources calling her this honorable nickname of "Queen of Rap", I think it's fair to say that the nickname is very much prominent enough for inclusion. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 05:21, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Most of those sources cited are either weak or blogs. Then, you have BBC report "is the queen of rap's crown fading?", LAT and Rolling Stone using "New Queen of Hip Hop", which is not the same, as rap and hip hop aren't interchangeable (important point you're missing, and others editors already pointed it out here), and The New Yorker saying "the then-queen of hip hop". The point of my previous posts were "top-tier sources using the nickname again and again." This wasn't the case. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 01:56, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

How is Mic, Uproxx, Nylon and Bustle "blogs?" There are so many reputable media websites that state her as the Queen of Rap, so for you to completely ignore this is very suspicious. Mic and Uproxx are not "blogs" or "weak sources". Period. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 07:01, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

• Support Short and concise. I like it. ~ HAL333 02:58, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
• Support My only caveat is one that others have already mentioned: We should include a quote about her being considered the "Queen of rap" somewhere, but only if directly attributed and not in Wiki-voice. ––𝗙𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗮𝗹𝗗𝘂𝗱𝗲 talk 03:26, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

• Support It's an improvement but it still contains too many specific details about chart peaks and certifications that would overwhelm most readers. ili (talk) 18:24, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Queen of Rap moniker again

RogueShanghai, the majority of above commenters in Cornerstonepicker's RfC approve of the proposed lead section. I implemented it just now because of this approval majority. It does not contain any mention of the disputed Queen of Rap moniker, so if you want that in the lead section you will need to start your own RfC to gain consensus for it. The WP:ONUS is on you to convince others before it can be re-inserted. (Any disputed text remains OUT of the article until consensus forms to include it.) Binksternet (talk) 03:01, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Binksternet unsurprisingly, the lead section looks totally different than the RfC now. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 08:51, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I see that RogueShanghai has been changing it against consensus. I restored it. Binksternet (talk) 11:39, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

RfC: Queen of Hip-Hop

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How do we correctly mention that Nicki Minaj has been called the "Queen of Hip-Hop" by reputable publications such as The New York Times, Billboard, T Magazine NPR, LA Times, MTV, XXL, and The Daily Beast, whilst keeping it balanced and not over-puffed? In my opinion, it's perfectly possible to make note of in the lead that she's been called the "Queen of Hip-Hop" and the "Queen of Rap" by reputable news sources while still following WP:NPOV and being fair, minimalist, and concise. I'm pinging some people of note in the earlier discussion and also those who can comment: @Cybertrip, Jurisdicta, AshMusique, Cullen328, VersaceSpace, CAMERAwMUSTACHE, MarioSoulTruthFan, Yikes2004, SunriseInBrooklyn, and Blarb48:

Here is my proposed biography (open to suggestions and changes, and implemented some ideas in the earlier RfC discussion) that tries to keep a balance between this moniker and keeping the lead balanced. Thank you. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 11:38, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

(invited by the bot) I have no expertise in this area, but "queen of hip hop" seems like something that would be debated. The extra safe route would be to simply list which prominent publications said that. North8000 (talk) 12:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Just to be clear, the proposed biography says: Minaj has been referred to as the "Queen of Hip-Hop" by some western publications such as The New York Times, Billboard, NPR, and XXL. Along with sources for said publications referring to her as the "Queen of Hip-Hop." "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 13:16, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. I think the current lead is fine and going off of what I said in the previous RfC a couple of sources that I linked above said the nickname was self-proclaimed, which is enough to give me hesitancy in adding it to the lead. Add it to legacy, sure, but there’s too much inconsistency in the nicknames for me to be good with adding it to the lead. Besides, her notable achievements are there already. I feel like being one of the top female rappers and one of the top selling female artists is way more notable and lead-worthy than a nickname. If the nickname does get added to the lead, I think it should be added after the Billboard sentence so it would read “She has received numerous accolades, and ranked as Billboard's top female rapper of the 2010s, as well as seventh among the top female artists of the decade. Her notable achievements have led some publications such as The New York Times and NPR to call her the Queen of Hip-Hop.” But, again, it’s not really something I’m not 100% sure goes in the lead. Being one of the greatest female rappers of all time is much less disputed and already there. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 15:01, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

  Yes, Minaj has called herself the "Queen of Rap" in verses, but there have been instances of genuine publications referring to her as the Queen of Hip Hop. Prominence is a huge factor here. If this was a one off, i.e only one publication has called her the Queen of Hip Hop, I'd understand better, but in all honesty there's way too many reputable sources consistently referring to her as the Queen of Hip Hop again and again- all the sources I linked branch off for multiple years, some in 2015 and some in 2017. Also, Minaj is not called one of the "greatest female rapper" in the lead, I don't know where you got that. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 18:24, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose: Several valid reasons why from editors in previous rfc, no point in me echoing them. Current lead is better than previous version(s). ChicagoWikiEditor (talk) 16:08, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose Well its kinda obvious she's not the only the female who referred as "Queen of Hip Hop", like Missy Elliot, Lil' Kim and Mary J. Blige, they're all referred as the same nickname. Sunrise In Brooklyn ✉ 16:42, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

  Minaj's nickname, as sourced above, has the most prominence. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 18:43, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose the current lead is fine and balanced; reasons to not include nickname there were already explained multiple times in the previous talk. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 18:15, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
• Comment If the publication goes "the selfed claimed queen of rap", then it's not valid whether is Genius or TNYT. However, if the publication has written "the queen of rap, Minaj has...", then it's valid if the publication is reliable. However, I do think the biggest question here is adding or not to the lead. Despite being a nickname, it should be added. Leads have to grab the attention of a reader and a nickname does that, the reader will think "oh she is..why?" and search for more in the article. Of course, it should be mention in the body of the article the publication along with the achievements that grant her that title. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:30, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

  The sources I linked make no mention of any self-claim whatsoever. For example, the New York Times says: "Following her “Anaconda” performance last year, which set social media ablaze, the reigning queen of hip-hop takes the stage once more, fresh off her “The Pinkprint” tour." "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 06:26, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose whatever is being proposed by RogueShanghai. Too many conflicting sources can be found naming others as the Queen of Rap or the Queen of Hip-Hop. Missy Elliott, Mary J. Blige and Queen Latifah keep coming up in the searches. Certainly Blige is more often called the Queen of Hip-Hop Soul, perhaps leaving the non-soul throne to someone else. Roxanne Shante was called the first Queen of Rap by Tricia Rose. Queen Latifah was profiled as the Queen of Rap in New York magazine by Dinitia Smith in 1990. Millie Jackson was called the Queen of Rap, and others continued the moniker. Even Sylvia Robinson was Queen of Rap back in the day.

  Whatever we say about these titles laid on Minaj should be attributed to every source, and kept down in the article body. Binksternet (talk) 22:50, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

  Yes, but those haven't been called the "Queen of Hip-Hop", at least by contemporaries. Overwhelmingly, media sources have called her the Queen of Hip Hop in contemporary times. Maybe this would be worth mentioning, such as "she has been called the Queen of Hip Hop by contemporary media outlets etc etc." But in general, there are far too many prominent sources to avoid mentioning of the "Queen of Hip-Hop" lead. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 06:48, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

• Leaning oppose for reasons given by Binksternet. This is worth mentioning in the article body, as similar appellations/claims are at the articles on Elliott, Blige, Latifah, Shante, Robinson, etc., and ascribed to particular sources. These things do not belong in the lead, as they are clearly non-defining and even contradictory claims, and entirely subjective.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:28, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

  Multiple people being called a similar nickname does not warrant the person being called the said nickname the most to not be called it at all; for example, Lady Gaga is often hailed by critics as the "Queen of Pop," but Madonna is the one called the "Queen of Pop" the most. Both *are* called the Queen of Pop, but Madonna is much more prominent in being called the Queen of Pop. This is a similar situation to Nicki: while others can also be called the Queen of Hip-Hop, such as Missy, Nicki is the one usually most called the Queen of Hip-Hop. If you search "Queen of Rap" on Google, her name and infobox is the one that automatically pops up. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 08:52, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose per the comments above, the lead looks okay as it is. Sea Ane (talk) 21:15, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Specificity of accolades

I noticed something about the lead that is highly irregular to me. Many featured articles, such as Mariah Carey, Katy Perry, and Lady Gaga, all have a section at the fourth paragraph detailing what specific awards or accolades the person has won:

• has received various awards, including four Guinness World Records, five Billboard Music Awards, five American Music Awards, a Brit Award, and a Juno Award.
• accolades include 12 Grammy Awards, 18 MTV Video Music Awards, 16 Guinness World Records, awards from the Songwriters Hall of Fame and the Council of Fashion Designers of America, and recognition as Billboard's Artist of the Year (2010) and Woman of the Year (2015).
• Carey has won five Grammy Awards, nineteen World Music Awards, ten American Music Awards, and fifteen Billboard Music Awards.

This seems to be consensus for a wide majority of articles about artists- I've only cited three examples of featured articles having this, but there should be much more. Why is it different when it comes to Nicki Minaj? My proposed change to the fourth paragraph would be:

• Minaj is one of the best selling female artists of all time with 100 million records sold worldwide. Her numerous accolades include eight American Music Awards, twelve BET Awards, four Billboard Music Awards, a Brit Award, five MTV Video Music Awards and a Guinness World Record. She was ranked as Billboard's top female rapper of the 2010s, as well as seventh among the top female artists of the decade.

Just to keep up with consensus. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 06:16, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Pinging @Binksternet, CAMERAwMUSTACHE, and MarioSoulTruthFan: for a third party's opinion "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 08:49, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

RogueShanghai, I don't think anyone can oppose this since such a sentence is pivotal to any WP:MUSICBIO, especially considering that Nicki is one of the most decorated artists of the last decade. —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 08:56, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Seems fine, but I would stick to her biggest achievements awards' wise, therefore excluding the Brit Award and the Guinness one. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:51, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Katy Perry has also won a Brit Award. That is why I included it. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 04:53, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

I don’t see why not, as long as we’re sticking with ones at the same level of notability as the Grammys such as the ones mentioned in the proposal and won’t be listing every single thing because that’s what the accolades article is for. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 13:10, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Minaj is notable for her usage of double entendres in her songwriting:

Mic: an able wordsmith, and she often uses double meanings to pull off killer puns.

Refinery29: Her use of the phrase “ganja burn” acts as a double entendre that illustrates how she is cutting out the negative things in her life.

Billboard: The double entendre compares Nicki whippin’ her fast car to how a slave master would whip a slave to make them work faster.

Entertainment Weekly: a double entendre that references her sold out MAC collection and drug dealing

This was mentioned in the lead, prior to the RfC. Can anyone make an important case for how Minaj is not notable for her usage of double entendres, and how this shouldn't be mentioned in the article? Be my guest. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 13:10, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Pinging @Binksternet, CAMERAwMUSTACHE, SunriseInBrooklyn, and MarioSoulTruthFan: for again, a third party's opinion if we can discuss adding this to the lead."Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 05:41, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

k you're citing two sources that say she used double entendres in two album tracks. Then, Mic (not strong source) says she often uses it. But your argument says she's notable for using it, not the same, like you added it before the rfc. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 05:56, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Sir, this is Misplaced Pages, not your Twitter feed. There is no need for constant informal passive aggresiveness. If not "notable," then I think these sources prove that she at least uses double entendres often. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!" 10:09, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Lots of artists use double-entendre. You need more explicit sourcing. Binksternet (talk) 12:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah I agree. Double entendre is common in hip hop and a lot of artists use it, some better than others. While I personally think Minaj is definitely better at it based on some of her better bars, I’m not seeing the widespread coverage to make it lead-worthy. 3/4 of the sources provided above mention specific instances of double entendre, not her work as a whole. And again, double entendre is not unique to Minaj unlike her animated flow and versatility. And if it can be sourced I’d argue her use of accents such as British Cockney is a more unique and notable aspect of her rapping but she doesn’t do it as often now. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 13:10, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

I subscribe to CAMERAwMUSTACHE opinion, word by word. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 13:50, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Merge a redundant sentence in the first paragraph and second paragraph.

I noticed that there's a pretty redundant // conflicting sentence in the lead: The lead sentence makes note of Minaj being known for her flow and versatility, but the second sentence of the second paragraph also makes note of her being known for her alter egos and accents. Why don't we just merge them together so that we don't have two "Minaj is known for" sentences in the lead? So:

• She is known for her animated flow in her rapping and versatility as a recording artist.

will become

• She is known for her animated flow in her rapping, versatility as a recording artist, and her usage of alter egos and accents.

And the second sentence of the second paragraph about her early career can be removed. It should also be noted that Nicki does still use accents occasionally in her verses, but this time she uses Jamaican Patois more than British cockney. And it should also be noted, most if not all of her verses from 2020 feature a new alter ego, "Queen Sleaze"; this is explicitly stated on the Whole Lotta Choppas Remix. I think that this is notable enough to add it to the lead sentence, and at the same time we can cut down on stuff in the lead that is unnecessary and make it slimmer. Thanks. Pinging @CAMERAwMUSTACHE and MarioSoulTruthFan: for their thoughts. shanghai. 04:02, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

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