Revision as of 07:37, 26 September 2021 editGizzyCatBella (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers17,604 edits →Discussion concerning ZScarpiaTag: 2017 wikitext editor← Previous edit | Revision as of 07:53, 26 September 2021 edit undoZero0000 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators41,899 edits →Statement by Zero0000Next edit → | ||
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====Statement by Zero0000==== | ====Statement by Zero0000==== | ||
David Collier is a blogger and activist who trades in insults and libels. A typical article title is (admins: I revelled this as it includes outing). Now ZScarpia quotes some sources that are "negative" (it is claimed) about Collier on a talk page. It should be observed that this case is practically a copy-paste of a portion of that article of Collier. Nearly the whole thing is there. To see the worth of this, Collier claims it is a "smear" to associate him with a twitter account "well-known for exposing antisemites" (Collier's words). Since Collier himself claims to be dedicated to exposing antisemites, exactly why is it a smear? It might be correct or incorrect, but claiming it is a smear is transparently a tendentious way to attack Zscarpia and nothing else. This case should be dismissed. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:27, 26 September 2021 (UTC) | David Collier is a blogger and activist who trades in insults and libels. A typical article title is (admins: I revelled this as it includes outing). Now ZScarpia quotes some sources that are "negative" (it is claimed) about Collier on a talk page. It should be observed that this case is practically a copy-paste of a portion of that article of Collier. Nearly the whole thing is there. To see the worth of this, Collier claims it is a "smear" to associate him with a twitter account "well-known for exposing antisemites" (Collier's words). Since Collier himself claims to be dedicated to exposing antisemites, exactly why is it a smear? It might be correct or incorrect, but claiming it is a smear is transparently a tendentious way to attack Zscarpia and nothing else. This case should be dismissed. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:27, 26 September 2021 (UTC) | ||
Geshen Bracha claims "ZScarpia uses a blog post from Greenstein to defend David Irving’s credentials as a historian". Everyone can see that in fact ZScarpia is quoting verbatim from the judgement of the ], which is quite rightly considered a major indictment of Irving. ZScarpia has included all of this section of the judge's remarks including the negative caveat at the end. It doesn't matter a damn where ZScarpia found the link to the trial judgement. So this is a false charge and Geshen Bracha should withdrawn it. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 07:52, 26 September 2021 (UTC) | |||
Also, Geshen Bracha, the fact that Collier tells lies about me does not mean I have to shut up about him. Your "Nazis" comment is a severe and blatant violation of NPA. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 07:52, 26 September 2021 (UTC) | |||
====Statenent vy Geshen Bracha==== | ====Statenent vy Geshen Bracha==== |
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Iskandar323
Iskandar323 receives a logged warning to take into account page and other restrictions due to discretionary sanctions--Ymblanter (talk) 18:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Iskandar323
The user was given a chance to self-revert and he still can but he refuses to do so. The user also violated WP:NPA when he was told that he broken the rules. For me it seems that this editor is uncapable to edit is such area and should take a break to learn our polices. --Shrike (talk) 07:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
@Deepfriedokra:,@HighInBC: The user still in his WP:battle mode calling me an "antagonist" The user clearly here to WP:RGW --Shrike (talk) 07:10, 16 September 2021 (UTC) @Deepfriedokra: I don't think I said that the user is "partisan" If yes could you please show me. Maybe you confusing my statement with Iscander --Shrike (talk) 14:50, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Iskandar323Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Iskandar323I made one revert, and then, within the same 24-hour period, made a second, modified edit following on from a discussion in the talk section of the page, where the consensus was that the content I had added had been given undue weight. Duly noted, the modified edit reduced the weight of the content. This discussion was civil and did not involve the accusing editor in the slightest. The other editors involved in the discussion have not voiced their opposition or made further reverts, though one has made further edits that have not affected the modified content, suggesting that, for that user at least, the content produced as a result of discussion towards consensus was appropriate. I maintain that the accusing editor appears to have a shallow grasp of Misplaced Pages's good faith principles, and I mean this in no way as a form of personal attack, but as a call-to-action for the individual to learn and engage in more civil and less belligerent forms of dialogue on the platform. It is also worth noting that the accusing editor applied WP:PIA arbitration status to this article only after the discussions and edits in question, making the rather specific nature of his complaint somewhat retroactive in nature, but I personally do not think my good faith actions run afoul of the rules either way. I hope you will agree.
@Johnuniq: What is the difference between accusing someone of WP:RGW and of being partisan? The very notion of WP:RGW is that someone is taking a partisan approach. It is bureaucratic to imply that one is a personal attack and the other is not simply because one is couched in technical language. I am not implying that you are intentionally being bureaucratic, but that the distinction is a bureaucratic one. WP:RGW is just a sub-category of WP:TEND, which defines partisanship. If an AE, outside of the context of normal talk pages and user talk pages, is not the suitable forum for raising the issues of the WP:TEND tendencies of certain users, where is? @Johnuniq: But thank you for your clarification on the principle of concrete outcomes in criticism sections. Though I would ask if divestment (where actual sums are withdraw) is not, in of itself, a concrete outcome? You are also quite correct that I had not fully absorbed the implications of the alert notice posted on my talk page. @Johnuniq: In answer to your specific questions about the Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot articles, I am not hugely vested in it and do not particularly care about the outcome, and I will not be trying to re-add a fully fledged 'criticism' section header or 'Involvement in Israeli settlements' section sub-header, because I now better understand the point about weighting relative to the article as a whole. I did not come up with these section headers spontaneously, but merely replicated the format from other similar sections on other articles, trusting that the editors who placed them there knew what they were doing, but where, in hindsight, the relative weighting may have been a little different. It still seems to me that a divestment by a large fund, as reported by Reuters, is a concrete outcome, and my tendency would still be to include a sentence on it, but I am not emotive about it. I merely made an addition that I thought was notable, based on sources that I thought were notable, in a format that I replicated from the work of other editors on other pages. All that I objected to was the wholesale deletion of material, by and large without discussion, by other editors. @Johnuniq: If you haven't already, please do look at the edits involved in the twinkle episode yourself to decide whether I was undoing good faith edits or not. The title of that talk section is a highly leading one. I believe I was undoing disruptive edits that had re-instated information that was clearly incorrect by the standard definition of the infobox templates - a position another user quickly attested to. However, following the subsequent discussion, I undid the last revision all the same following the criticism and left it to others to edit out the demonstrably incorrect information if they so chose, which they did. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:51, 19 September 2021 (UTC) @HighInBC: Yes, I now realise the distinction between what I thought a revert is, and what a revert is in the technical definition you have mentioned. I had though that a partial re-edit of some of the same material in a different format and location, arrived at as a result of efforts to move towards consensus as per a discussion, was not a simple 'reversion'. But I now realise that the definition is quite broad and that its interpretation can be quite ironclad, particularly on articles perceived to be IP-related, even if they don't contain an edit notice. I also don't think it was totally unreasonable for me not to have understood absolutely all of this prior to this arbitration referral. @HighInBC: I'm getting the hang of the 'comment on the content not the editors' mantra as well. I had assumed that personal attacks meant actual insults, defamation or slander, but not the questioning of motives or truthfulness, but clearly, here too the Misplaced Pages definition is either very broad or very open to interpretation. I'll admit to getting a little emotive on the subject of my own persecution. But is it also not a problem for editors to demonstrably falsify formal statements in an arbitration forum? NB: Let me once more state plainly that, while I was not aware of and certainly did not fully comprehend the 1RR rules with respect to this conflict area prior to this AE being called, I do now understand the 1RR rules quite clearly, as well as the general principle behind the 1RR and its general merit as a means of de-escalation in all circumstances, as well as the benefits of pursing a more thoughtful, civil and WP:BRD-informed editing approach. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:14, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by 11Fox11The edit notice is a technicality, and Iskandar323's conduct is sanctionable without the 1RR. They are edit warring in the face of talk page consensus against them and engaging in personal attacks and commentary. On Zakaria Zubeidi they reverted three times: (and some reverts of IPs). On Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot they also reverted multiple times: , when consensus was against them at Talk:Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot#Hugely undue addition. To this one must add the personal attacks: and against Shrike when notified of 1RR. They also think the 1RR rule doesn't apply to them. 11Fox11 (talk) 08:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by SelfstudierUsually we give newer editors the benefit of the doubt, I think an informal warning is sufficient in this case.Selfstudier (talk) 09:24, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000To editor Shrike: According to WP:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles, an editnotice is required for the General Sanctions to be enforced but Iskandar323 does not have the technical ability to add one. Zero 13:26, 15 September 2021 (UTC) @Shrike: Of course he should obey the rules, but nobody is obliged to add ARBPIA notices. I don't see what you want to take to ARCA as the rule about editnotices has been discussed by ArbCom before and they are unlikely to change it. Zero 13:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by GeneralNotabilityI'm very tangentially involved here, but wanted to add an observation (not specifically related to the AE violation in question). On 12 September, Iskandar bulk-added a "criticism" section to 30ish company articles (see here, look for the edit summary "Added section"). The bulk of these were added within the span of about half an hour. They were later mass-reverted as "Undue weight" by Mike Rothman2, whom I temp-blocked for undiscussed mass reversion and obvious attempts at permissions gaming. My concern is this: mass addition of "criticism" sections in this manner smacks of WP:RGW/POV-pushing, and I am concerned about whether Iskandar can neutrally in the topic area. GeneralNotability (talk) 14:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Inf-in MDI'd like to draw your attention to recent comments by Iskandar323, where he describes this request against him as a "technicality", and despite the clear language used by Johnuniq below which says the criticism section is undue for the bank's article, that it is due and that there no "hard and fast rule" against it.. Maybe a warning is not enough. Inf-in MD (talk) 15:46, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Deepfriedokra I think a ban is taking it a bit too far. My comment above notwithstanding, I find Iskandar323 to be one of the more reasonable editors with whom I disagree on most things. A formally logged warning coupled with his acknowledgment that he understands what he did and will not do it again should suffice. Inf-in MD (talk) 18:34, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by NableezyWhether or not something is UNDUE is a matter for the talk page and the NPOV noticeboard, not AE. A user is free to engage wider input on a content dispute, what is needed here is the user acknowledging and agreeing to abide by our edit warring policies. This group of editors that all happen to be on one side of an editing dispute (mustnt call them partisans of course) agitating for a content ruling on a conduct board is a bit troubling, as is their insistence that said content dispute be used to remove an opposing editor. nableezy - 15:59, 16 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Iskandar323
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Xoltron
Indefed as an admin action --Guerillero 03:09, 19 September 2021 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Xoltron
Discussion concerning XoltronStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by XoltronI am not sure what the purpose of this on-going attack, mostly on my talk page, against me is. All I did was start a discussion on a talk page in the Indo-Aryan Languages article: A long mislabeled article for a language group known correctly in Linguistics studies around the globe as Indic, as also mentioned in the same article. The next thing I know, several Indian editors start attacking me on my talk page instead of continuing the discussion on the article's discussion page and then this Arbitration request, for what? I do make a point to respond to editors that make personal attacks and threats (like Deepfriedokra , and numerous others) meant to intimate. Is that what this is about or ?Xoltron (talk) 22:33, 18 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by TrangaBellam
Statement by (username)Result concerning Xoltron
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Iskandar323 (2)
Iskandar323 topic banned from the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted, for 12 months. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:01, 25 September 2021 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Iskandar323
Alerted and stated at AE on 17:15, 16 September 2021 that they "did not fully comprehend the 1RR rules with respect to this conflict area prior to this AE being called, I do now understand the 1RR rules quite clearly,"
This is a blatant 1RR violation. The page has an edit notice. This is coupled by canvassing and a personal attack, an issue at the last AE as well. In addition, Iskandar323's talk page has a 20 September warning against edit warring on a whaling article and from 21 September a copyright/copying warning on a food article.
Discussion concerning Iskandar323Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Iskandar323This is totally inaccurate. In the first example provided, I attempted to restore the infobox to the page after it had been deleted along with a host of other edits two days prior. This was reverted by 11Fox11, and I left it be. The second edit referenced is something completely different altogether and in no way a revert of prior edits. It was something I was working on in the background and is totally unrelated to prior edits on the page. I rewrote the page from the ground up, using academic book and journal sources to provide the beginning of an accurate, sourced background to the origin and use of the eponymous term of the page. It is just a beginning and more work and sourcing needs to be done, but it was a page rescue to push the content back towards the well-documented, peer-reviewed material on the nature of this term and the the academic framework that birthed it. It is possible that as part of this endeavour, some materials may have been removed or misplaced, but not maliciously. Wherever possible I have re-used and re-located all available sources to appropriate sections. Following the edit, I created a talk page entry explaining the rewrite and its purpose and inviting input and comment, so thank you to 11Fox11 for their engagement, although I wish they have simply pointed out any omission on the talk page, as my post invited. As of this moment, I have gladly re-included the source mentioned, and the section it concerns, "Politicisation of the term" is better for it. I still have not had much time to review this section and it still needs cleaning up. In contrast to the claim that I have set about to revert edits on this page, I have actually taken the page further in the direction that 11Fox11 was pushing when they removed the 'inappropriate' infobox. On reflection, I agreed that 11Fox11 was correct and also removed the related demographic information from the article. My edit was precisely aimed at steering the article away from the demographics of Jewish communities originating from the Arab World, which is covered in other articles, and back towards the topic of the specific term that this article addresses. @Free1Soul: I had thought that books/journals without either a url or a doi constituted dead links. If this is not the case, it is possible that I used the dead link template inappropriately. I do now see that I tagged two archived links incorrectly, but you also removed at least one dead link tag from the definitely dead Voice of America story, as well as removed unaddressed citation needed tags, and removed the infobox again (without explanation). Iskandar323 (talk) 18:42, 21 September 2021 (UTC) To editor Deepfriedokra: Hi again, and sorry for the trouble. I wasn't informed by 11Fox11 that they believed I had broken the 1RR rule prior to them raising this fresh AE, and Free1Soul has already rolled back that edit, along with others, so I cannot self-revert. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:48, 21 September 2021 (UTC) To editor Deepfriedokra: Yes, I have been warned. I did not expect to get reported again before I had been warned, and it is playing havoc with the section redirects on this page, but yes, logged warning duly acknowledged. And had I been informed that someone believed I had broken 1RR again and been told to revert, before being reported, I would of course have reverted immediately. No questions asked. No administrators troubled. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:58, 21 September 2021 (UTC) To editor Deepfriedokra: While we are on the subject of POV, and people taking offense, can I just draw you attention to where Free1Soul, in this talk page discussion that I raised to try to broach the subject of their more disruptive edits, such as deleting a stable infobox, not only used the N word in a deeply inappropriate and out of context manner (and frankly I find it offensive just seeing that on the page), but also compared a people being labelled Arab to someone being called the N word. Now I don't know about you, and I can't speak to the technicality of it, but I find that extraordinarily POV and offensive. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:12, 21 September 2021 (UTC) @HighInBC: Reversion was never the intention of my rewrite, which was a painstakingly conducted effort based almost entirely on existing sources from within the extant article. The two principal sources I used were Gottreich and Levy, both of which were pre-existing sources in the article that I simply extracted material from. Sources that were recently added, in edits such as this, including Yehouda and Hannan (2012) and Tal (2017), were also carefully retained. In the complaint itself, the principle argument produced to suggest that this was not a rewrite, but a reversion, appears to be the removal of the word 'contested', as part of an edit numbering in the thousands of bytes (and incidentally a word that does not obviously have a source). Regardless, if this was the principle problem, then it was a simple fix. In the event, I was given no chance to self-revert, and the editor that raised this AE has still not even commented on the use of the word in the relevant talk page discussion. I do now certainly understand the point that Nableezy is making when he says, "if you have been reverted once, stop editing for the day altogether." Meanwhile, the edit that is being counted as the first revert involved the restoration of an infobox that was part of the article long before I had anything to do with it, was content that had nothing to do with me, and which was removed without consensus (and for which no consensus was reached in this talk). The edit in which this was removed, a day earlier was in fact far more sweeping than this, so at very best, this was a partial revert. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:32, 22 September 2021 (UTC) @HighInBC: Hi again, I was not making excuses - only explaining my thought process. I understand that the rules are quite stringent, and breaches are inexcusable, and I was of course not going out of my way to break the 1RR rule amid an existing AE. If I had been alerted to the fact that other editors considered this edit an 1RR breach, I would have self-reverted without question, but I was not alerted and I was given no such opportunity. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:06, 22 September 2021 (UTC) @Deepfriedokra: Yes, I immediately partially reverted by restoring the material that 11Fox11 first stated in the AE had been omitted. I was otherwise unaware which other material was being considered a revert and no full revert was requested. I was also unsure whether it was appropriate to perform a full revert after the AE had already been raised in case this could be construed as evidence tampering or attempting to mask the timeline of events from adjudicating administrators. By the time 11Fox11's broader concerns were stated, a full reversion of the material had already been made by Free1Soul. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:36, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
@Nableezy It would appear that the use of prejudicial terminology is of relatively little note for these proceedings. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:31, 22 September 2021 (UTC) NB: I am perfectly happy to take a break from this tedious conflict area and engagement with the tendentious tendencies of its actors. It is sad, depressing and frankly a waste of breath, bytes and ultimately carbon (wherever the servers are) that there are a whole rank of editors who delight in nothing more than writing up other editors. Imagine how even just the energy spent on these multiple AE referrals could have been better spent on actual editing. And that is precisely what I will be doing - taking my energies elsewhere. There is little point engaging in a content area where undoing takes precedence over doing. But I resent the accusation of incompetence. I am a perfectly competent editor - please do look at my last hurrah, which 11Fox11 has ever so kindly pointed out, and see for yourself. In hindsight, I should have simply uploaded this the first time around, but instead, I unwittingly attempted a more comprehensive re-write and clean-up of what turns out to be an ideological minefield. Clearly, I have not adapted swiftly enough to the particularly cynical brand of counter-editing that appears all-pervasive in this conflict area. But perhaps I do not wish to. Better, mayhaps, to find an area of concern that is less of a toxic soup, and where a little more good can be done. Iskandar323 (talk) 04:58, 23 September 2021 (UTC) @Hut 8.5: I respect your opinion, but, for the record, I didn't accuse any editors of vandalism. I consulted Selfstudier, an editor far more experienced than myself, who I had previously been discussing technical issues with, for their opinion on the matter. I stated that "my instinct was" that the infobox deletion constituted 'vandalism' ('possible vandalism' in the accompanying edit note), but also noted that I had not taken action and was conscious of my own need to steer clear of potentially questionable reverts. I never made a direct accusation of vandalism, and the experienced editor I consulted duly informed that this was an inappropriate line of thinking Re: the standing definitions of vandalism. I then raised the subject in a talk page discussion where I refrained from the use of the term vandalism following the feedback from Selfstudier. More than a day later, when no satisfactory response had been provided in the talk page as to why the infobox had been deleted (instead of improved or re-sourced), I then undertook a partial revert to restore it. My subsequent edit that day was what I can only describe as an extreme error of judgement, and you are right that I stated that I understood the 1RR rules, but clearly I slightly misunderstood the brightness of the bright red line. I had thought that a re-write on the scale that I undertook would not simply be construed as 'a revert of different material', but be taken in the context of the broader restructuring of the article that I attempted. I was evidently misguided in my actions and how they would be viewed, as well as overambitious in my undertaking. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:00, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by SelfstudierAt this stage could someone point out to me where on the talk page (his or the article) Iskandar323 has been invited to self revert the alleged 1R breach as per usual practice?Selfstudier (talk) 17:19, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Free1SoulSelfstudier, in this disruptive edit, Iskandar323 tagged around 20 refs as dead links. Most of those tags were wrong, either tagging live links (or links with archive versions) or tagging refs with no urls (books and journals), in which there was no url that was dead. Free1Soul (talk) 18:15, 21 September 2021 (UTC) Iskandar323 is pushing his pov over and over in the page. He is not listening. Free1Soul (talk) 18:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC) Deepfriedokra, Iskandar323 is not accurately portraying my comment. "Arab Jew" is a term that most Mizrahi Jews (the so labelled "Arab Jews") find offensive, this is what sources say. I did not use the N word. I said that labelling populations, that reject this term, as "Arab Jews" in the infobox was inappropriate - inappropriate in the same manner as adding a population box to the article Nigger (or for that matter Kike or any other offensive term that has an article on Misplaced Pages). The example article was one where it would be obvious a population box would be out of the question. The reasons why "Arab Jew" are offensive to us Mizrahim are complex and have many layers, but one important layer is that it erases Jewish ethnic identity, reducing the Jewish identity to a religion, putting those labelled outside the Jewish people and into a different ethnic group. Use of this term implies we are less Jewish than other Jews. My point was that labelling people who do not identify themselves with this term in the infobox was unappropriate. Free1Soul (talk) 19:38, 21 September 2021 (UTC) Statement by NableezyThe argument about the N-word is obscene (Arab Jew is in fact a widely used term, objected to by some, not most as the bs above claims), and a user who thinks that is a valid argument to make should think carefully about accusing others of "POV-pushing". As far as the reverts, Iskandr, you need to slow down. If you get reverted stop editing the article for a day. Boom, never have a 1RR violation again. nableezy - 21:47, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Geshem BrachaMost Sephardic Jews object to this language. Nableezy links to a book by Shenhav who is one of the promoters of this language. Shenhav noted himself in an article that: ""it is not surprising that very few Jews of Arab descent, in Israel, would label themselves ‘Arab Jews’. It has turned out to be the marker of a cultural and political avant-garde. Most of those who used it, did so in order to challenge the Zionist order of things (i.e., ‘methodological Zionism’; see Shenhav, 2006) and for political reasons (Levy, 2008)" in (taken from article). Most (around 90%) Mizrahi Jews live in Israel. Shenhav, who promotes the term, says "very few" of them would use this label and that use of this label is a political marker. This is a very loaded language to use.--Geshem Bracha (talk) 09:14, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning Iskandar323
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ZScarpia
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning ZScarpia
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Hippeus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:39, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- ZScarpia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBPIA4#ARBPIA General Sanctions (standard discretionary sanctions).
I looked into ZScarpia following a blog post by David Collier from 23 September 2021 that was brought to my attention. I disagree with Collier in general, and with much of the specific blog post, however I was concerned by Collier detailing how ZScarpia smeared him on a Misplaced Pages talk page using extremely dubious sources and I decided to probe deeper into this aspect. I have thoroughly vetted this particular claim by Collier, and uncovered additional and systematic use of this very dubious blog by ZScarpia. ZScarpia's posting of false smears against a living he is in a feud, in regards to Palestine/Israel, requires attention.
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 13:21, 28 August 2021 Accusing living person (David Collier) of "is also suspected of being associated with the GnasherJew "crew"", using one source (Jewish News) that does mention Collier at all and three sources that are beyond dubious and are known for antisemitism. This violates the Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons policy. Source context:
- https://dorseteye.com/i-give-you-david-collier/ The Dorset Eye, little known site other than being infamous for: this post which led to the suspension of a politician who shared this apparent murder threat. ( )
- https://twitter.com/socialistvoice/status/1104051361447059456 - Twitter of SocialistVoice run by an individual expelled from Labour for his statements, which include language such as "Jewish companies" and "Jewish blood" (in relation to Tesco and Marks & Spencer
- https://azvsas.blogspot.com/2020/06/the-lies-and-deceit-of-david-collier.html Worst for last, blog post by Tony Greenstein who was expelled from Labour for anti-Semitism and for whom a high court determined that 'notorious antisemite' is not libel when used to describe him (Greenstein declared bankruptcy after being order to pay legal fees to the Campaign Against Antisemitism, after losing the case he filed and and appeal).
- 15:15, 4 September 2021 On a BLP talk page, posting links to The Electronic Intifada (red list at WP:RSP) and Tony Greenstein's blog which is even worse as a counter source to The Times.
- 09:35, 2 September 2021 (+another copy: 09:36, 2 September 2021) Posting material in violation of WP:BLPPRIMARY, WP:NOTAFORUM.
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 25 August, 2021 also indicated awareness on talk page (Israel lobby in the United Kingdom) where he posted the BLP smear using Greenstein as a source (+here).
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
ZScarpia indicated on 17:31, 28 August 2021 that Collier "is not a fan" of his.
ZScarpia has a long history of using Tony Greenstein as a source on Israel, Jews, and related biographies and organisations :
- Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive984#NOTFORUM at Talk:Campaign Against Antisemitism, discussion of a NOTAFORUM post by ZScarpia on a Jewish organization and resisting removal, ZScarpia linked to Tony Greenstein's blog on azvsas.blogspot.
- 04:13, 18 May 2020 use of tonygreenstein.com (twice!) for info on living persons.
- 10:30, 7 May 2019 use of Tony Greenstein's blog on azvsas.blogspot
- 13:12, 9 March 2019 same
- 18:16, 24 July 2016 same, other article.
This list was compiled by searching for "azvsas.blogspot" and tonygreenstein.com in Misplaced Pages, ZScarpia is the sole user here posting these links recently.
ZScarpia use of a blog by a person whom the UK legal system upheld the descriptor 'notorious antisemite' was legitimate viewpoint for posting forumish talk page smears on Jewish persons is unbecoming conduct.--Hippeus (talk) 20:39, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- ARBPIA relevance (Selfstudier): Talk:Israel lobby in the United Kingdom, Talk:Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party, Talk:Jenny Tonge, Baroness Tonge, and Talk:Campaign Against Antisemitism all have Arab-Israeli conflict templates. Talk:David Miller (sociologist) probably should have a notice too, and the posted link to Greenstein's blog is conflict related (title: "The Union of Jewish Students is not a Cuddly Group of Fragile Jewish Students – it is the Israeli State on Campus – Dedicated to Defaming Opponents of Israeli Apartheid"). The posts at Talk:Denis MacShane and Talk:All-Party Parliamentary Group against Antisemitism are a posting of a 45 page ruling in which Israel is mentioned 107 times, boycott 44 times (against Israel), and (anti)"semiti*" 87 times. All of these posts fall within ARBPIA.--Hippeus (talk) 22:14, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:ZScarpia&diff=prev&oldid=1046467703
Discussion concerning ZScarpia
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by ZScarpia
Statement by Selfstudier
I'm a little confused as to how this fits into Arbpia? Is the complaint based on the material related only to the page Israel lobby in the United Kingdom? If so, what is the relevance of all the other material? It seems more like a blp complaint rather than Arbpia? Selfstudier (talk) 21:45, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the clarification. The three diffs that you say violate Arbpia are in relation to Israel lobby in the United Kingdom, David Miller and Denis MacShane, the last does not have the Arbpia notice and the nature of the complaints re all three appears to be as blp violations rather than AI conflict related per se.
Statement by Zero0000
David Collier is a blogger and activist who trades in insults and libels. A typical article title is (admins: I revelled this as it includes outing). Now ZScarpia quotes some sources that are "negative" (it is claimed) about Collier on a talk page. It should be observed that this case is practically a copy-paste of a portion of that article of Collier. Nearly the whole thing is there. To see the worth of this, Collier claims it is a "smear" to associate him with a twitter account "well-known for exposing antisemites" (Collier's words). Since Collier himself claims to be dedicated to exposing antisemites, exactly why is it a smear? It might be correct or incorrect, but claiming it is a smear is transparently a tendentious way to attack Zscarpia and nothing else. This case should be dismissed. Zero 03:27, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
Geshen Bracha claims "ZScarpia uses a blog post from Greenstein to defend David Irving’s credentials as a historian". Everyone can see that in fact ZScarpia is quoting verbatim from the judgement of the Irving-Lipstadt libel case, which is quite rightly considered a major indictment of Irving. ZScarpia has included all of this section of the judge's remarks including the negative caveat at the end. It doesn't matter a damn where ZScarpia found the link to the trial judgement. So this is a false charge and Geshen Bracha should withdrawn it. Zero 07:52, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
Also, Geshen Bracha, the fact that Collier tells lies about me does not mean I have to shut up about him. Your "Nazis" comment is a severe and blatant violation of NPA. Zero 07:52, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
Statenent vy Geshen Bracha
Zero0000 and ZScarpia have a COI on Collier and shouldn’t be writing anything about him.
ZScarpia systemic use of Tony Greenstein is beyond the pale, this is a person described as a “notorious antisemite” and who was expelled from Labour for mocking the Holocaust term Final Solution.
I found ZScarpia using Greenstein in another instance: in this post from September 2020, ZScarpia uses a blog post from Greenstein to defend David Irving’s credentials as a historian. Irving is a well known Holocaust denier.
This is a straightforward Misplaced Pages:No Nazis situation, an editor posting from Greenstein over and over again is not here to build an encyclopedia.--Geshem Bracha (talk) 06:03, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by GizzyCatBella
This is a straightforward Misplaced Pages:No Nazis situation..
Is Geshem Bracha accusing Zero0000 and ZScarpia of being Nazis!? Am I reading that correctly? - GizzyCatBella🍁 07:37, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning ZScarpia
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.