| Revision as of 08:26, 4 February 2007 editFairness And Accuracy For All (talk | contribs)3,995 edits I must have spelled Horowotz wrong!← Previous edit | Revision as of 11:28, 4 February 2007 edit undoIkip (talk | contribs)59,234 edits →[]Next edit → | ||
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| ::::Maybe you could close this AfD Morton and move this article then. The anon is right, they are one and the same. Since 29 October 2005, ] already redirects to ]] (]) 20:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC) | ::::Maybe you could close this AfD Morton and move this article then. The anon is right, they are one and the same. Since 29 October 2005, ] already redirects to ]] (]) 20:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :::::Response on your talk page. ] (]) 18:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC) | :::::Response on your talk page. ] (]) 18:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| ::::Those are all trivial references, just links as part of a collection without any writing about the site at all. ] (]/]) 03:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | ::::::Those are all trivial references, just links as part of a collection without any writing about the site at all. ] (]/]) 03:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :::::::Wow, Night Gyr, I don't know how you did it, but you looked through 1,050,000 hits on google? You did say "Those are all trivial references". I really don't see how you can support the idea that a webpage with over 1 million hits is "non-notable". In my opinion, that really defies rationality. ] (]) 11:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *'''MERGE/DELETE''' as per nom. ] 19:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC) | *'''MERGE/DELETE''' as per nom. ] 19:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Delete''' - no matter who nominated it, it falls short of ] and lacks enough reliable secondary sources to sustain a seperate, non-promotional article. ] <sup>]</sup> 20:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC) | *'''Delete''' - no matter who nominated it, it falls short of ] and lacks enough reliable secondary sources to sustain a seperate, non-promotional article. ] <sup>]</sup> 20:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
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| ::The '''Speedy Keep''' introduced by ] would appear on the surface to be a solicited vote. | ::The '''Speedy Keep''' introduced by ] would appear on the surface to be a solicited vote. | ||
| :] <font size=2><font color="Green">]</font></font>] 03:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | :] <font size=2><font color="Green">]</font></font>] 03:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| ::Mobile 01, as I wrote on my talk page, don't jump into situations you are not familar with, and as a new user, don't quote wikipolicy that you just read. | |||
| ::'''I will delete these comments as soon as Mobile 01 deletes hers, accusing me of vote stacking.''' | |||
| ::Lets talk about the history of "vote stacking", since Mobile 01 brought it up here. This is a bad faith nomination by an editor (Morton devonshire) whose majority of "contributions" to[REDACTED] since October 2005 have been the deletion of articles and sections of articles which he personally disagrees with. Morton, Tbeatty, MONGO, and Tom harrison follow each other around and vote in unison on AfDs. They all have similar POV. Zer0faults, who was once part of this group, recently revealed that some of these four editors would actively talk to each other via e-mail to cordinate strategy. There has been one user page (Gabriels) which is now closed which have supported this canvasing, since then, two more user pages were created to support this canvasing (Gabriel's and Morton's). | |||
| ::What is Mobile 01's connection to this AfD? Morton devonshire, who I have been in bitter edit wars with, attempting to shut down these canvasas pages, recently followed me to the Firestone debate, where he fully supported Mobile 01, in my opinion, simply because she was in an edit war with me. It is no surprise that Mobile 01 and Morton support each other, they both have a rich history of deleting well referenced material. | |||
| ::User:Angusmclellan can defend himself. I will not argue Mobile 01's interprtation of wikipolicy right now. ] (]) 11:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' simply not notable...definitely looks like promotional spam to me.--] 04:57, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | *'''Delete''' simply not notable...definitely looks like promotional spam to me.--] 04:57, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Delete''' NN spamvertisement. --] 05:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | *'''Delete''' NN spamvertisement. --] 05:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 11:28, 4 February 2007
Common Dreams NewsCenter
- Common Dreams NewsCenter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
First deletion reason: Fails WP:Notability -- a Google News Search results in ZERO results. Completely non-notable Misplaced Pages:Vanispamcruftisement. Misplaced Pages is not a place for self-promotion. Part of a Walled Garden of the Progressive blogosphere. MortonDevonshire Yo · 17:32, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Note to closing admin This AfD has been added to a userspace AfD notice board by nom, see . --70.48.71.53 18:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC) — 70.48.71.53 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- This is NOT a "noticeboard". Adding the AfD there was a mistake which I have reverted. GabrielF 21:10, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Note to closing admin This AfD has been added to a userspace AfD notice board by nom, see . --70.48.71.53 18:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC) — 70.48.71.53 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Comment but Google books shows that it's plugged by The Better World Handbook ("the most comprehensive news site on the web"), cited in print works such as Unveiling the Real Terrorist Mind by Nadia Batool Ahmad and Project Censored's Censored 2005: The Top 25 Censored Stories, The 3Rs of George W. Bush, Women and Children First, and Politics and Government in the Age of the Internet. The article's crap, but that's not a reason to delete it. If I wasn't quite so brim-full of good faith, I might think this was a politically motivated attempt to censor someone's political opponents. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Keep Often referenced newssite, a search for "Commondreams.org" gets 1.2 million google hits and a search for "Common Dreams" also get over a million hits (but the phrase is not unique to just the website.) --70.48.71.53 18:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC) — 70.48.71.53 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Google Search for "Commondreams.org" --> 1,200,000 hits
- Google Search for "Common Dreams" --> 1,170,000 hits (but its not a unique phrase, thus many hits are not relevant)
- Google Search for ""Common Dreams News Center" --> 87,000 hits
- Google News Search for "Commondreams.org" --> 11 hits
- Google News Search for "Common Dreams" --> 28 hits (but only about half references the site)
- Alexa Website Rank for "Commondreams.org" --> 9,253 most popular website on the Internet —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.71.53 (talk) 18:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC).— 70.48.71.53 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Google News Seach for "commondreams" --> ~225 hits Bwithh 21:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Comment : So notable that it has its own profile on David Horowitz' 'Discover the Network'. 'popular website founded in 1996' Rename to Common Dreams though - Fairness & Accuracy For All 07:49, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
- Speedy Keep Before launching this AfD, one of the external links that Morton characteristically deleted was http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0630-20.htm which shows Common dreams as the number one "progressive" website, and number 5,014 on the page ranking site Alexa.com. See: Talk:Common_Dreams_NewsCenter#Removal_of_information Morton states: "a Google News Search results in ZERO results." The actual result is 13. The google result for commondreams.org is 1,050,000 hits. Non-notable? Hardly. As per: 70.48.243.54 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) who restored Morton's characteristic deletions of material on Common Dreams NewsCenter: "rv vandalism. Morton devonshire, please do not remove references or categories just because you disagree with the organization politically. Constructive additions are welcome." Travb (talk) 18:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- This isn't an Afd on Commondreams.org, it's an Afd on an article about Common Dreams NewsCenter, which is completely unreferenced in the reputable media, which is our yardstick on Misplaced Pages. MortonDevonshire Yo · 19:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- "Common Dreams NewsCenter" and Commondreams.org are one and the same. Also, there are references by mainstream sources to the Common Dreams Newscenter: Yahoo News: Literature and Authors, Yahoo News: Bird Flu, The Guardian: 2000 Books Awards to name a few. There are many endorsements by media figures here including PBS's Bill Moyers, and NBC's Don Imus. --70.48.71.53 19:46, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Maybe you could close this AfD Morton and move this article then. The anon is right, they are one and the same. Since 29 October 2005, Common Dreams already redirects to Common Dreams NewsCenterTravb (talk) 20:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Response on your talk page. Travb (talk) 18:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Those are all trivial references, just links as part of a collection without any writing about the site at all. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 03:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
- Wow, Night Gyr, I don't know how you did it, but you looked through 1,050,000 hits on google? You did say "Those are all trivial references". I really don't see how you can support the idea that a webpage with over 1 million hits is "non-notable". In my opinion, that really defies rationality. Travb (talk) 11:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
- Those are all trivial references, just links as part of a collection without any writing about the site at all. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 03:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
- Response on your talk page. Travb (talk) 18:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Maybe you could close this AfD Morton and move this article then. The anon is right, they are one and the same. Since 29 October 2005, Common Dreams already redirects to Common Dreams NewsCenterTravb (talk) 20:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- "Common Dreams NewsCenter" and Commondreams.org are one and the same. Also, there are references by mainstream sources to the Common Dreams Newscenter: Yahoo News: Literature and Authors, Yahoo News: Bird Flu, The Guardian: 2000 Books Awards to name a few. There are many endorsements by media figures here including PBS's Bill Moyers, and NBC's Don Imus. --70.48.71.53 19:46, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- This isn't an Afd on Commondreams.org, it's an Afd on an article about Common Dreams NewsCenter, which is completely unreferenced in the reputable media, which is our yardstick on Misplaced Pages. MortonDevonshire Yo · 19:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- MERGE/DELETE as per nom. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 19:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete - no matter who nominated it, it falls short of WP:WEB and lacks enough reliable secondary sources to sustain a seperate, non-promotional article. Tom Harrison 20:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Commondreams is at least mentioned in passing two textbooks on gbooks: Media Now and SAGE's Key Concepts in Journalism Studies. That seems like a start on sourcing, as is the stuff on "A-list blogs" in Politics and Government in the Age of the Internet. After exhausting those, would-be editors could start on the 100+ other books on google books, the stuff on scholar, and the many news reports. Then they could try JSTOR, MUSE, LookSmart, and Factiva. And if they could come up with very clever search terms, they could maybe even try web searches to find reliable sources. More reliable sources for this than for all of Category:Webcomics put together. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yawn yourself. Go do that, or go put the commics up for deletion. Tom Harrison 21:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- My attempt at Google Scholar came up with +400 citations: . There are a few incorrect hits but the majority it appears +80% are real citations. Click on the "Cited by XX" links on the results pages to see the RS papers which are citing Common Dreams content. There are more citations of common dreams content than even I expected. --70.48.71.53 21:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yawn yourself. Go do that, or go put the commics up for deletion. Tom Harrison 21:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Keep based on likelihood that sources do exist, but without prejudice to future AfD listing if they are not found and cited. Seraphimblade 21:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - give it three months in this current state and then, if no reliable sources are given and the article does not improve, the rouge admins can speedy it and then speedy any attempts at recreation without reliable sources. I'm a Brit, BTW, so no political axe to grind. Moreschi 22:00, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete Assuming good faith about the nomination (and its faulty google/blogosphere assertions), I'm having trouble finding sources on Google Books and Factiva which mention this website in more than a passing way i.e. more than a "recommended site" directory listing or a reference footnote. While the website claims some nice endorsement quotes from various dignitaries, that's not enough to pass WP:WEB. I can't find non-trivial references and there doesn't seem to be any awards won by this site. It's a popular site whose audience clearly extends beyond the blogosphere and into academia and professional political circles. However,[REDACTED] is not a directory and I haven not been able to find evidence of multiple non-trivial reference which would see this passing WP:WEB. I'm open to new evidence being produced for this afd but I'm !voting delete for now. (And since this article has been around since October 2005 with the attention of multiple editors, I see no reason to give this article a grace period) Bwithh 22:32, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete, fails notability due to no sources. Their main role is to copy and reprint articles from other sources, and publish some editorials. If no one's written about them, though, how can we? Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 22:36, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete, nn website. Edeans 22:46, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete, This article (if you could call it that) does not appear to serve any purpose to wiki readers other than to redirect them to the Common Dreams Web Site. The article uses questionable terminolgy "according to its website" and "Common Dreams claims on its website " and "claims to refuse corporate money". While the web site itself may well serve a purpose for those wanting information on specific stories, the article itself does not appear to have any merit or value for wikipedia. This AFD is about the Wiki Article and whether it deserves a place in our hallowed halls. The AFD is not about the Common Dreams Web site. Having read what little information there is on this article and followed it's meager amount of links, I find that the article has no purpose or value except taking readers away from Misplaced Pages.
- From WP:NOT#IINFO:
- Internet guides. Misplaced Pages articles should not exist only to describe the nature, appearance or services a website offers, but should describe the site in an encyclopedic manner, offering detail on a website's achievements, impact or historical significance, which can be significantly more up-to-date than most reference sources since we can incorporate new developments and facts as they are made known.
- From - AfD etiquette
- Do not message editors about AfD nominations because they support your view on the topic. This can be seen as votestacking. See Misplaced Pages:Canvassing for guidelines.
- At 18:03 on 3rd Feb 2007 Angus McLellan notified Travb about this AfD
Mobile 01 03:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
- Mobile 01, as I wrote on my talk page, don't jump into situations you are not familar with, and as a new user, don't quote wikipolicy that you just read.
- I will delete these comments as soon as Mobile 01 deletes hers, accusing me of vote stacking.
- Lets talk about the history of "vote stacking", since Mobile 01 brought it up here. This is a bad faith nomination by an editor (Morton devonshire) whose majority of "contributions" to[REDACTED] since October 2005 have been the deletion of articles and sections of articles which he personally disagrees with. Morton, Tbeatty, MONGO, and Tom harrison follow each other around and vote in unison on AfDs. They all have similar POV. Zer0faults, who was once part of this group, recently revealed that some of these four editors would actively talk to each other via e-mail to cordinate strategy. There has been one user page (Gabriels) which is now closed which have supported this canvasing, since then, two more user pages were created to support this canvasing (Gabriel's and Morton's).
- What is Mobile 01's connection to this AfD? Morton devonshire, who I have been in bitter edit wars with, attempting to shut down these canvasas pages, recently followed me to the Firestone debate, where he fully supported Mobile 01, in my opinion, simply because she was in an edit war with me. It is no surprise that Mobile 01 and Morton support each other, they both have a rich history of deleting well referenced material.
- User:Angusmclellan can defend himself. I will not argue Mobile 01's interprtation of wikipolicy right now. Travb (talk) 11:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete simply not notable...definitely looks like promotional spam to me.--MONGO 04:57, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete NN spamvertisement. --Tbeatty 05:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
- Strong Keep Highly notable part of the progressive blogosphere. Lots of original content. Exclusive interview with Bill Moyers just a few weeks ago Interview - Fairness & Accuracy For All 07:23, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - 963,000 ghits in main google search. Ten current ghits in Google news search. 31,688 blogs linking in Google blogs search. 298 ghits in Google Books Search. Alexa ranking of 9,253, with 10,537 sites linking in. Google Pagerank of 8. Seems like it would be a perverse interpretation of notability that does not include commondreams.org. --BenBurch 07:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)