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Revision as of 21:23, 1 August 2022

This is Golden's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.

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Your GA nomination of Flag of Azerbaijan

The article Flag of Azerbaijan you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Flag of Azerbaijan for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Most Comfortable Chair -- The Most Comfortable Chair (talk) 13:21, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Azerbaijan Barnstar of National Merit
		For the time and effort you have put in towards promoting Flag of Azerbaijan, Declaration of Independence of Azerbaijan and Mirza Shafi Vazeh to good article status, and improving several other articles such as Azerbaijan. — The Most Comfortable Chair 14:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

@The Most Comfortable Chair: Thank you; I appreciate it. — Golden 14:12, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Removal of Armenian names on Karabakh articles

Your removal of Armenian names from historical heritage sites on Karabakh articles , is problematic. These names are relevant considering the significant Armenian historical presence in the region, and are useful for people doing research of the area among other things, the source present the names in Armenian script, their description in English-language literature is often limited, and often the case is that searches for the names of the places often only produce relevant results when you search for them in Armenian script rather than in Latin script (an example: ), together all of this belies your justification for removing the names that there is "no indication of any connection to AM, so the translation is irrelevant". AntonSamuel (talk) 19:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello. The source presents them in Armenian script because the source is entirely in Armenian script; even if it said "Azerbaijani mosque", the text would still be in Armenian script, so I don't really understand the logic of "the source present the names in Armenian script".

Placing an Armenian translation near monuments when the source (which, due to its partisan nature, should have been used with proper attribution) makes no mention of it having any relation to Armenia/ns gives the reader the wrong impression and would actually be more harmful than helpful to anyone doing research about the area (it's also safe to assume that anyone willing to research such an obscure topic would check the source themselves and find the AM script name there). The very example you provided demonstrates the flaws in this logic; the Azeri name for the "Karnakash" fortress, "Qalalı", yields three thousand more results than the Armenian script name.

So, I don't think it'd be within Misplaced Pages's guidelines to include such a translation unless you have an at least somewhat non-partisan source (i.e., one that wasn't produced by modern Artsakh or AZ officials) demonstrating a link between the monuments and Armenia/ns. A good compromise to such an issue would be to not use any translations for monuments that have no clear affiliation with either ethnic group. — Golden 21:03, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

It's far faster to find names to search for directly in the articles rather than in the source, there should be no problem including relevant Azerbaijani names too when they're available. Sources that describe the region in detail tend to be local sources, meaning Armenian and Azerbaijani sources, the main issue should be if the sources meet standard requirements of reliability, and that propagandistic nationalist sites are to be avoided . The main purpose of the articles are to inform the readers about their respective subjects, it's problematic to point to Misplaced Pages guidelines to justify decreasing the quality and usefulness of articles, which I would say suggests battleground thinking, which is especially problematic for such a contested topic area as WP:ARBAA2. AntonSamuel (talk) 21:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I want to understand your rationale first

Hi Golden. I'm making a different thread (similar to above) because I find your recent revert in Zangilan quite problematic for a number of reasons.

First, you didn't reply to the solid arguments presented on talk page for 20 days. Second, the user Armatura who made that comment was blocked yesterday, after which you bothered to finally reply hours later after their block. Your reply was an irrelevant search result and didn't address the arguments, let alone how inappropriate and problematic it is to wait for someone to get blocked then reply to them. But you didn't stop there, you reinstated your own edit less than a day later with an edit summary "per talk". "Per talk" what exactly? That you didn't have consensus? That you didn't address the arguments brought up on talk? That your comment was subpar for reinstating your edit? That the user is blocked the same day which means they can't reply to you now?

I want to hear your explanation first because I still want to assume good faith even though all of the above is very bad faith any day of the week. I already warned about your WP:TEND edit to your mentor once (like they asked), but I don't plan doing this every time you make a problematic edit in AA area. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 10:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Commenting here to say I saw this comment and will probably give a full response in the morning. In the meantime, Golden, please consider holding off from making any further edits to AA2 until I have completely reviewed this situation. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 05:29, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

I spoke with Golden in private. I expressed pretty great frustration with their recent actions and received assurances it would not be repeated. I'm responding to memorialize this conversation. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 05:47, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the effort, but we are past the assurances part at this point, aren't we? Golden was put under a tban probation after their sock appeal. It was lifted just a couple of months ago, yet Golden doesn't appear to show any signs of change in AA. It is not a single mistake, or even a few unrelated mistakes: I see the same tendentious pattern prior to their socking. I already highlighted one of them to you in the recent past - instead of reporting them I came straight to your talk page as their mentor, out of good faith and courtesy. I didn't yet report for the current incident either, I was willing to assume good faith even in this situation and that Golden must've had some rationale in mind for their recent behavior. I was flabbergasted - there surely should've been some self-reflection after the socking, the tban probation, the edit I notified about on your talk not so recently??? I would expect a serious reflection from someone who has double the age/experience of my account and given all the above context. Yet it's the same old story repeating itself, and the same elusive justifications for tendentious edits/behavior, what are those reassurances worth at this point? I think we reached a point where Golden has to explain themselves directly, in front of a larger community. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 23:13, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

@ZaniGiovanni: If you are suggesting you should report Golden to AE for this incident (as part of a larger pattern), then nothing I'm going to say is going to be helpful for you. I spoke to Golden privately on the matter because I was personally upset about it, but it wasn't exactly severe gravedancing here. You could argue it was a bit of gaming the system, but I am personally not convinced that was what this was. This is not something that is likely to be repeated nor is it something I think Golden willfully did.
Either way, I have no intentions of shielding Golden from accountability (nor is that even something I am capable of). If you need me to get out of the way for you to have this conversation solely with Golden, then just say as much. I just happen to be a (talk page watcher) lol –MJL ‐Talk‐ 06:40, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

The majority of Armatura's points in his last reply were almost entirely comments on user behaviour rather than the content dispute at hand. I intended to ignore the issue until I had the patience to engage with a user like Armatura again, which is why I didn't respond to him for 20 days. But then he was banned, and since he was the only person in the discussion with whom I was conversing, I wasn't sure what else I was supposed to do. So I just reinstated my edit, explained my reasoning again on the talk page, and anyone new who disagreed could revert and restart the discussion. I can see now how that could have given the wrong impression, and I admit that I could have handled the situation better. I can apologise if that would help? — Golden 16:19, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

The majority of Armatura's points in his last reply were almost entirely comments on user behavior rather than the content dispute at hand. - they were actually addressing your own comment (about random IP sock speculations, redundant percentage threshold, etc.) and asking valid questions about the article and about your reply? That's a normal reply to your own comment, I’m not sure what you’re even trying to say here. And the rest of your explanation, I'm really not convinced by it. If you were so unsure what to do, you could’ve pinged other opposing users who formed consensus and asked their opinions, you could’ve done a lot of stuff. You can’t just “reinstate” your edit when you don’t have consensus, in fact, consensus was the opposite of your edit. It’s just tiring that I even have to explain this to someone of your experience. Side note that Armatura’s block wasn't due to Zangilan lead discussion, it was another discussion on a user talk page I believe. Anyway, I'm not looking for apologies, we're past that and it wasn’t my intention in the first place. As I already said, I was looking for a solid rationale for your recent questionable behavior, as I in good faith thought that you must've had one. Unfortunately, I didn't see any. Just some elusive justifications. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 18:02, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a report involving you at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement regarding a possible violation of an Arbitration Committee decision. Thank you. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 18:22, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

DYK for The Great Wave off Kanagawa

On 17 July 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The Great Wave off Kanagawa, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that The Great Wave off Kanagawa (pictured) has been described as "possibly the most reproduced image in the history of all art"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Great Wave off Kanagawa. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, The Great Wave off Kanagawa), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

What does the word 'dot' mean to you? This edit is amazingly bad. Even if you are copying pre-existing text, it doesn't mean you just copy pre-existing crap text. Look at the picture again. Does Fuji look like a 'dot' to you? If the original text had said Fuji looked like Hitler's moustache would you have uncritically copied that also?

Oh dear, you said it was a 'dot'. Could you please go back and check that cited text and find how they described it? Even if they said it was a 'dot' you shouldn't just copy that, as obviously they were looking through the wrong end of a telescope. Even if they said a pyramid you wouldn't copy that. What word would you use? Shenme (talk) 05:38, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

I've now changed the wording. You, however, could benefit greatly from speaking more respectfully. — Golden 08:31, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Missing a full citation for The Great Wave off Kanagawa article

With this edit, you added {{sfn|Bibliothèque nationale de France|2008|p=216}}, but there appears to be no full citation for "Bibliothèque nationale de France 2008".

I have User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js installed in my common.js (see the documentation page at User:Ucucha/HarvErrors). This script identifies when {{Sfn}} does not point at an existing citation. With this, I am seeing a message following the sfn footnote in References, Harv error: link from CITEREFBibliothèque_nationale_de_France2008 doesn't point to any citation.

I am hoping that you can still access the full citation for "Bibliothèque nationale de France 2008". If so, would you please add it to the Sources section? Peaceray (talk) 05:51, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out. I've added the source now. — Golden 08:26, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Flag of Azerbaijan

On 31 July 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Flag of Azerbaijan, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the blue stripe in the Azerbaijani flag (pictured) reflects the country's Turkic heritage? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Flag of Azerbaijan. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Flag of Azerbaijan), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 00:02, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Notice that you are now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction

The following sanction now applies to you:

You are being given a formal warning that your actions in the Armenia-Azerbaijan topic area have been disruptive as per this report, and that the next minor infraction will result in a topic ban, block or both, likely without the benefit of an AE report. This warning is a type of sanction, and will be logged in the AE logs.

You have been sanctioned due to the evidence presented at this AE report.

This sanction is imposed in my capacity as an uninvolved administrator under the authority of the Arbitration Committee's decision at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Final decision and, if applicable, the procedure described at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions. This sanction has been recorded in the log of sanctions. If the sanction includes a ban, please read the banning policy to ensure you understand what this means. If you do not comply with this sanction, you may be blocked for an extended period, by way of enforcement of this sanction—and you may also be made subject to further sanctions.

You may appeal this sanction using the process described here. I recommend that you use the arbitration enforcement appeals template if you wish to submit an appeal to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard. You may also appeal directly to me (on my talk page), before or instead of appealing to the noticeboard. Even if you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful. You are also free to contact me on my talk page if anything of the above is unclear to you. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 21:23, 1 August 2022 (UTC)