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| ==Ultimate failure, and subsequent similar movements== | |||
| == Keep present tense.... == | |||
| Recently, France's "Yellow Vests" protests have been compared to Occupy Wall Street. Here are some sources which do that: (lots more in Google News). | |||
| Let's face it, ] still has a website up, and I doubt that the movement's core followers are intent on giving up any time soon. ] (]) 14:34, 16 September 2013 (UTC) | |||
| Yes keep it present tense as many occupy groups still meet (example occupynaperville.org) and there is even a Occupy National Gathering being planned (http://interoccupy.net/natgat2014/save-the-date-occupy-national-gathering-natgat3-july-31-thru-aug-3-2014-sacramento-ca/)--] (]) 23:57, 5 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Tea Party Inspiration? == | |||
| I dispute the assertion that a line can be drawn between the ]''as well as the Tea Party movement.'' The statement cannot be found in sources 26, 27 or 28 so can somebody involved please tell the source of this? The two have radically different objectives, the latter being primarily a right wing movement instigated by the ]. If somebody does not respond I will remove the relevent material. ] (]) 18:16, 5 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| : disagrees with you. '''<font face="Arial">]</font>''' 18:24, 5 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| I feel that this article in general is missing the bigger picture, and is sometimes written as if it was still early 2012. It mentions little, fairly hollow victories (e.g. that supposedly the Bank of England encouraged bankers and politicians "to behave in a more moral way"), but doesn't mention that its goals of reducing income inequality basically failed. | |||
| there are similar grievances among occupiers and original tea party people (not the AstroTurf-corporate tea party people). HOWEVER it is the actions and views to fix those grievances where Occupy and the TP | |||
| differ greatly. --] (]) 15:34, 13 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == NOTFORUM == | |||
| As the second article I linked to above notes: ''"However what most of the European governments and the Brussels did was to target the working class cutting wages and pensions, laying off thousands of workers, while big businesses, banks were going unpunished which avoided paying taxes, although the main reason for the financial crisis and the subsequent recession worldwide was their greed."'' | |||
| I was not using this as a forum, I am merely pointing out that the article is incomplete without a section on how/ why it came to a sudden halt. ] (]) 21:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| It seems pretty clear that future historians will view Occupy Wall Street as a symptom of widespread public anger about certain issues which failed to get them resolved ''at the time'', but was perhaps a prelude to more consequential changes in the future (a little like the ] was a prelude and practice run to 1917). ] (]) 13:42, 19 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| :I agree--there was nothing wrong with your post. ] (]) 00:40, 13 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :: it's obvious that the closing chapter is missing. Also, there seems to be no update for all the countries that on this page claim to still protest.--] (]) 03:37, 9 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
| == Origins of Occupy are in Egypt, not the U.S. == | |||
| == Article requires update == | |||
| Occupy organizers in the U.S. explicitly took inspiration from occupiers in Tahrir Square in Egypt and from Arab Spring activists in Tunisia (http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/). The first paragraph of this encyclopedia entry should make that fact more clear. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 17:33, 25 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| I see that somebody above has defended the use of the present tense on the basis that the Occupy Wall Street website is still live (although that post itself is over a year old). That may well be, although I've seen sources which suggest that movement is functionally dead (e.g. , ). I don't know much about it, but I do know that the movement is not the same today as it was in 2011, and this is not reflected in the article. | |||
| == Populista? == | |||
| At a basic level, there are a large number of dates without years, which is contrary to ]. For example under ''Goals'' we have "During the early weeks", "Speaking on 7 October", and so on. The Occupy movement in Norway is stated to have started on "15 October". I suspect all of these dates are 2011, and that the edits were made in 2011 so that the editor considered it unnecessary to state the year, and that the article was at that time an example of ]. | |||
| NO es populimo? el populismo es una respuesta sencilla a un problema complejo, y esto es totalmente lo contrario. ] (]) 23:43, 8 October 2022 (UTC) | |||
| The section ''Chronology of Events'' is bizarre, because the period 17 September 2011 to 31 December 2011 is broken down into intervals of 3-5 weeks, then there is a final section covering the entire period 1 January 2012 to present, and this section really doesn't explain what the movement is doing now. I can't see that it refers to any sources postdating September 2013. Again the article seems to be largely written from a 2011 or early 2012 perspective with various addenda shoved into the final section. | |||
| == External links == | |||
| Also we have a section of ''Subsequent Activity'', but what is this subsequent to? | |||
| ] (]) 00:29, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| :There are sixteen entries in the "External links" section and subsection.. Three seems to be an acceptable number and of course, everyone has their favorite to add for four. The problem is that none is needed for article promotion. | |||
| :I was the one who used the term "Subsequent." It is clear the "Movement" has not continuously had protesters in the streets worldwide. Because it was a global activity, with a lot of associated events going on, there is no specific end date to the protests. Each geographically sub- article discusses the specific dates of their encampments. Occupy London is notably active currently with protests and encampments in the streets. Similarly, it would be difficult to pin down a wholesale set of goals. I haven't bothered to retrace the historical portions of the article that went through massive editing by others. I have posted various links on multiple articles that document other, less public activities by the "Movement" as I find out about them in the press. That shows it is still active and ongoing. There is no date of death as so many want to post. So what is it you want added? Do you have additional sourced information that is missing? ] (]) 03:55, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| *] states: {{tq|Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.}} | |||
| *] states: {{tq|There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to the external links section of an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Misplaced Pages. On articles about topics with many fansites, for example, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate.}} | |||
| *]: {{tq|Minimize the number of links}} | |||
| *]: {{tq|...and access dates are not appropriate in the external links section. Do not use {{tl|cite web}} or other citation templates in the External links section. Citation templates are permitted in the Further reading section.}} | |||
| :There are 46 links in the "See also" section and subsections and 15 in the "Further reading". With the "External links" that is a total of 77 links. This is indicative of far too many links. | |||
| :Remove excessive links and 2013 maintenance tag. -- ] (]) 18:11, 7 March 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == Impact on bankers == | |||
| ::As stated in my previous post, I do not know much about this topic. So, no, I do not have sourced information which I wish to add (and if I did I would simply add it). What I do know is that the bulk of the article as it stands reflects a 2011 or early 2012 perspective, and it is now late 2014, so the article requires updating. I suspect (but do not know) that the movement continues in a significantly different form, and if this is the case, the article needs to reflect this. I appreciate your efforts in adding recent references, but these do seem like they've been tagged on to the end. So what we have is a 2012 article with a series of addenda, which isn't the same as up-to-date article. The lead needs rewriting to reflect whatever has happened since 2012. The ''Background'' section is probably fine, but the ''Goals'', ''Methods'', ''Chronology'', ''Reactions'' and ''Impact'' sections need updating. The ''Criticism'' section requires expansion, but that's a slightly different issue (it seems imply that there is a significant body of criticism, but only refers to 2 examples). I think probably ''Subsequent Activity'' should be merged into a rewritten ''Chronology'' (which could, for example, be divided by year). I would be amazed if there is not academic literature charting the movement's history and evolution. The article has a very rich set of references, but they're almost all to news reports. Per ] "When available, academic and peer-reviewed publications, scholarly monographs, and textbooks are usually the most reliable sources." So what I would really like would be for someone with the relevant academic background to rewrite the article to reflect the current consensus. Failing that, I would like someone involved in the movement to update the article in the areas indicated (although of course that raises possible POV issues).] (]) 12:01, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| I was considering copying the following line from the ] article to the Impact section of this article. I leave it to the editors of this article to determine if it is appropriate and how to merge it with existing content. | |||
| :::Also, it is stated in the lead that "By the end of 2011 authorities had cleared most of the major camps, with the last remaining high profile sites – in Washington DC and London – evicted by February 2012." However, these evictions aren't described in the Chronology. So, although you state "It is clear the "Movement" has not continuously had protestors in the streets worldwide", that isn't really clear. It may well be correct (I imagine that continuous worldwide protests would have come to my attention), but the only indication of it in the article is the one sentence in the lead I just quoted.] (]) 12:15, 29 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| {{tpb|In October 2012 Haldane said the ] protesters... had persuaded bankers and politicians "to behave in a more moral way".<ref name=Andy>{{cite news| url= https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9641806/Occupy-protesters-were-right-says-Bank-of-England-official.html| title =Occupy protesters were right, says Bank of England official| work =]| author=James Kirkup|date=29 October 2012|accessdate=30 October 2012|location=London}}</ref><ref name = "OccupyCorrect">{{cite news|url= http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/09b53a94-2271-11e2-8edf-00144feabdc0.html|title= BoE's Haldane says Occupy was right|work= ]|author1=Hannah Kuchler |author2=Claire Jones |date = 30 October 2012|accessdate=30 October 2012|format={{registration required}}}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Pages/speeches/2012/616.aspx|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20121106172105/http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Pages/speeches/2012/616.aspx|url-status=dead|title='A leaf being turned' - speech by Andrew Haldane: 29 October 2012 'Socially useful banking' conference at Friend's House, Euston, London on 29 October 2012|archivedate=6 November 2012}}</ref>{{reflist-talk}}}} ] (]) 13:59, 9 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
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Ultimate failure, and subsequent similar movements
Recently, France's "Yellow Vests" protests have been compared to Occupy Wall Street. Here are some sources which do that: (lots more in Google News).
I feel that this article in general is missing the bigger picture, and is sometimes written as if it was still early 2012. It mentions little, fairly hollow victories (e.g. that supposedly the Bank of England encouraged bankers and politicians "to behave in a more moral way"), but doesn't mention that its goals of reducing income inequality basically failed.
As the second article I linked to above notes: "However what most of the European governments and the Brussels did was to target the working class cutting wages and pensions, laying off thousands of workers, while big businesses, banks were going unpunished which avoided paying taxes, although the main reason for the financial crisis and the subsequent recession worldwide was their greed."
It seems pretty clear that future historians will view Occupy Wall Street as a symptom of widespread public anger about certain issues which failed to get them resolved at the time, but was perhaps a prelude to more consequential changes in the future (a little like the 1905 Russian Revolution was a prelude and practice run to 1917). Esn (talk) 13:42, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
Origins of Occupy are in Egypt, not the U.S.
Occupy organizers in the U.S. explicitly took inspiration from occupiers in Tahrir Square in Egypt and from Arab Spring activists in Tunisia (http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/). The first paragraph of this encyclopedia entry should make that fact more clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.170.194.182 (talk) 17:33, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
Populista?
NO es populimo? el populismo es una respuesta sencilla a un problema complejo, y esto es totalmente lo contrario. 88.10.28.92 (talk) 23:43, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
External links
- There are sixteen entries in the "External links" section and subsection.. Three seems to be an acceptable number and of course, everyone has their favorite to add for four. The problem is that none is needed for article promotion.
- ELpoints #3) states:
Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.
- LINKFARM states:
There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to the external links section of an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Misplaced Pages. On articles about topics with many fansites, for example, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate.
- WP:ELMIN:
Minimize the number of links
- WP:ELCITE:
...and access dates are not appropriate in the external links section. Do not use {{cite web}} or other citation templates in the External links section. Citation templates are permitted in the Further reading section.
- There are 46 links in the "See also" section and subsections and 15 in the "Further reading". With the "External links" that is a total of 77 links. This is indicative of far too many links.
- Remove excessive links and 2013 maintenance tag. -- Otr500 (talk) 18:11, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
Impact on bankers
I was considering copying the following line from the Andy Haldane article to the Impact section of this article. I leave it to the editors of this article to determine if it is appropriate and how to merge it with existing content.
In October 2012 Haldane said the Occupy movement protesters... had persuaded bankers and politicians "to behave in a more moral way".
References
- James Kirkup (29 October 2012). "Occupy protesters were right, says Bank of England official". Daily Telegraph. London. Retrieved 30 October 2012.
- Hannah Kuchler; Claire Jones (30 October 2012). "BoE's Haldane says Occupy was right" ((registration required)). Financial Times. Retrieved 30 October 2012.
- "'A leaf being turned' - speech by Andrew Haldane: 29 October 2012 'Socially useful banking' conference at Friend's House, Euston, London on 29 October 2012". Archived from the original on 6 November 2012.
Daask (talk) 13:59, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
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