Talk:Gretchen Carlson: Difference between revisions

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	== Studied at Oxford University in England ==

	The source for this is the Fox News website. Most likely she studied for a course at Oxford while a student at Stanford. Does anyone have any other sources for this? ] (]) 19:44, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
	:The article says she studied at Oxford while a student at Stanford. Is there some contention about that? Is the wording not right? Would you word it differently? Not sure how notable it really is, but whatever. --] ] 20:16, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
	::The Miss America site (which I normally take as authoritative on most Miss America bios; they have lots of reasons to get it right) also includes a mention of the time at Oxford, but is similarly obscure with details. ] (]) 22:24, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
	:::The source (Fox) says: "Carlson graduated with honors from Stanford University and also studied at Oxford University in England", while the article says "While a student at Stanford, she studied abroad at Oxford University". Did she take a course at Oxford while a student at Sanford or was she accepted as a student at Oxford University? I would guess the first, but the source is ambiguous. ] (]) 03:00, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
	::::Still waiting for what the point is here or a proposed rewrite. Should the article read ''While a student at Stanford, she studied abroad at Oxford University, but it should be noted that she was never accepted as a student at said school, just in case you were confussed''...--] ] 20:59, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

	==Removed link to list of articles from MMfA==
	A link to a list of articles that mention Carlson? --] ] 14:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

	:This was a compromise. As I said in the ], I'd be happy to replace the summary with a longer section going into more detail, such as her whitewashing of the Bush administration (), her lying about Obama's proposed tax credit (), or her trillion-dollar error on Social Security (). If that would seem better to you, let me know. In the meantime, it would be absurd to write a bio of Carlson without mentioning the allegations of conservative bias, which your edit would completely expunge, so I'll restore the previous compromise. ]<small> ] ]</small> 17:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
	::Do you have an non partisan sources? --] ] 17:32, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
	:::I added this to the BLP board. Going back and reading this talk page, its like ground hog day :)...anyways, --] ] 17:48, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

	== Is wiki turning into a democrat sounding board? ==

	Interesting that wiki seems to be pandering to the left by allowing a 'Controversies' section into what should be simply a non-biased factual account of a persons' biographical info, not injections of personal ideas of what they deem to be a controversy. It's really interesting, and actually saddening, that Jon Stewart, a comedian, is given any kind of merit as a source for a biased controversies section on anything or anyone. Is the DNC invading Wiki now? George Sorros...? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== Deleted comedy show's comments ==

	A comedy television show, though clever and humorous, is transient in nature and is woefully inadequate as a source for a living person's biography. Please discuss here to show good faith before reverting. ] (]) 03:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


	Clever and humorous, sure, but more importantly: grounded in fact. The latter reason is why such material goes beyond being a comedic segment and instead serves as social commentary. "It's funny because it's true," if you will. If it can be shown that relevant parts of the segment were taken out of context or fabricated for the sake of comedy I would fully agree with you that such a depiction of Carlson is unfit for an encyclopedia. At this point, it does not appear that that is the case, and so I have reverted the changes.

	Finally, asking for "good faith" discussion before reverting changes, while failing to give the same yourself, is rather backhanded. There has been ample discussion on this material above and it was widely agreed that the comments were fair and appropriate. No new information has been brought forward, merely an unsubstantiated opinion, and so there should be no reason for such an edit.
	] (]) 08:48, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
	:Misplaced Pages is not just a collection of "facts". How notable is this incident and widely covered? Does it constitute undue weigth compared to the rest of the bio? --] (]) 15:02, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

	::How much weight should be given to the allegation that she exhibits right-wing bias? As I noted above, I'd be fine with including a detailed litany of her distortions and outright lies that favor conservatives, but as a compromise we've gone with this comparatively brief summary. The latest edits would (as has been attempted in the past) completely expunge from her bio any reference to possible bias. That would clearly be insufficient weight. ]<small> ] ]</small> 18:21, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
	:::Please stop using Wilipedia to promote you own biasis, agendas and hatred of others. --] (]) 19:44, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
	::::Please stop ignoring ]. Above, especially in the thread ], I've provided a detailed explanation of why the material is appropriate. Notably, I've cited the ] policy that says we report facts about opinions. It applies even to opinions that some Misplaced Pages editors consider ill-founded. You choose to ignore all the lengthy substantive arguments and instead ascribe my view entirely to my "biasis , agendas and hatred of others." The material that you're trying to suppress is consistent with Misplaced Pages policy. If you don't like that material, do some actual work and find quotations from notable spokespersons that praise Carlson for her fairness and balance. Those opinions can then be considered for inclusion on the same basis. ]<small> ] ]</small> 05:21, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
	:::::You are using a reference that is a search result for articles with her name in it? AFG doesn't mean I have to ingore editors with an obvious hostility towards BLP subjects. --] (]) 12:55, 7 October 2010 (UTC).Sorry I wasn't signed in. --] (]) 13:00, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
	::::::''Notably, I've cited the WP:NPOV policy that says we report facts about opinions.''
	::::::Certainly valid, but that observation is not unqualified...particularly as related to ] consideration. ] <small>(italics emphasis in original)</small>...
	:::::::...means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all ''significant'' views that have been ].
	::::::"Significance" is at issue here and can be resolved by satisfying the sourcing provisions mandated by ]. While an article subject's ideological perspective may be worthy of note, that a "conservative" host might, on occasion, demonstrate a "conservative" bias that irritates those of an opposing ideology is hardly encyclopedic or "controversial". Whether alleged demonstrations of that conservative bias rise to a level of <u>"significance"</u> to warrant mention in this article must be supported by the provision of clearly adequate third-party sourcing demonstrating that '''''significance'''''. The provision of a "Google search" for sundry "Media Matter's" mention of her name as purporting to satisfy ] sourcing mandates for inclusion is about as lame as it can get. ] (]) 16:03, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

	I deleted it because it is a living person and appears to be piling on of insignificant negative material. Any editor has the right and is in fact encouraged to remove questionable material until it can be shown with a reasonable consensus to be worthy of inclusion. I started a section here to discuss it, which is hardly backhanded. Reverting it without discussion after NPOV BLP was called into question is a problem.

	I may be mistaken, but Comedy Central is not well known for rigorous editorial review. I enjoy watching Jon Stewart and many of his colleagues but I certainly don't confuse them with the NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, ABC, CBS, BBC, etc. Perhaps his sketches carry a little more weight then Jay Leno or David Letterman monologues but certainly not enough for a BLP.

	It doesn't pass the "so what" test. She hosts a light-weight morning coffee talk show. They march out cute puppies, interview girl scouts and every thing else. Jon Stewart lambastes every journalist -- who cares. I am still of the opinion that it needs to be removed. ] (]) 23:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

	:''I am still of the opinion that it needs to be removed.''
	:I fully concur. Whatever notable might be the recipient of Stewart barbs is irrelevant to a determination of "significance" under ], particularly where ] governs. Without provision of additional sourcing suggesting some "significance" to Stewart's observations on Carlson, this is triviality masquerading as substance. ] (]) 23:51, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
	::The only purpose of JS in this instance is to denegrate the subject. In general this is a violation of BLP. One of the biggest problems I have with this section, and have had for some time, is that there is no way to determine if it is at all true. The implication is that since Carlson is well educated that she must know the meaning of those words, and by extention she must know the meaning of every word less she be viewed as intentionally playing down her intelligence. I don't believe it belongs and never have. It is not encyclopedic and not very notable, not to mention I do believe it is a BLP violaiton. ] (]) 02:21, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

	:::] was the only non-IP acct to respond as opposing over the past two days since I originally raised my objection. Since he self-identifies as a "Hostile to the right wing"" editor and the self-described attorney twice reverted my previous edits, by removing what I think is poorly sourced and insignificant material, even after I raised BLP violation objections, I notified him on his user talk page of my intent to remove the section for good this time.

	:::I firmly believe that I am fully in the right if I deleted it tonight but I want to be sure I have a fair consensus and that he has had ample opportunity to respond to my more then fair notice of reversion. If someone else moves the offending paragraph to the talk page, I won't object. ] (]) 03:29, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

	(Unindent) If the consensus is that someone can graduate with honors from Stanford without knowing middle school vocabulary words, the JS segment would not be funny. But that's rather irrelevant, isn't it, because our consensus on fact is inconsequential.
	:"Ignoramous", "Double Dip Recesion" and "Czar" are not exactly middle school vocabulary words. I doubt many people here knew the complete meaning of Double Dip Recesion before 2008, and how many knew that Ignoramous refers to a Lawyer? What it comes down to is if I can find a word which you don't know the meaning of that seems like it should be commonly known, then I can say you are a liar. ] (]) 14:17, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

	Now, I'll get technical: "The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Misplaced Pages has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true." Now, obviously it's been published in a video format ... but is that a reliable source? Turns out Jon Stewart being the most trusted source of news in what is, granted, an unscientific sampling doesn't need to come into play based on what Loodog posted below, because other non-comedic sources cited the clip:

	::Made it to the , as well as a few others ... --] (]) 17:52, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
	:::Made it into a liberal online newspaper, yeah that is really surprising. Anything that trashes FOX makes into HuffPo. ] (]) 14:17, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

	Now, that only addresses one argument, that this segment is verifiable, not that it's notable. Type "Gretchen Carlson" then hit the space bar in the Google bar on the top right of your browser and read the auto-complete entries: Daily Show and Jon Stewart both appear. I think that is rather definitive evidence that this is something significant about her, and whether we think it's true or even whether it's true at all is rather negligible, because it has been published. I don't know how else one could possibly determine whether something is "notable" about a person without bringing their own personal point of view into the discussion. You can cite other news sources like Loodog did, perhaps, but then we're back to verifiability.

	Again, I don't know much Wikipedian policy and there's a chance I'm doing something very wrong here, but I'm simply using common sense. The little Wikipedian policy I have read is ambiguous and contradictory: on the one hand it states "Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone ... look out for biased or malicious content." and yet on the other hand it states "All articles must adhere to Misplaced Pages's neutrality policy, fairly representing all majority and significant-minority viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources" ... how are we supposed to represent all viewpoints if we aren't allowed to report biased or malicious content? Negative reports are '''by definition''' malicious and the majority of praise and criticism about newspeople, even from so called "reliable secondary sources," is inherently biased. (That's kind of the point of the Daily Show.) Seems like the problem isn't with the article, to me. ] (]) 12:47, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

	:As an act of good faith, I personally notified the two who previously were most vocal supporting retention (including the IP) that I was requesting a show of hands for a consensus and we let it run for four days, which in my observation of Misplaced Pages is fairly generous. Both parties I notified have responded and are included in the head count.

	:We let this run for four days and it appears the final count is five supporting removal versus three, mostly IPs, supporting retention. I will remove the text and associated sources from the main article at this point. I know that she is not a significant player in the news hosting business but I truly feel that regardless of her supposed political affiliation she is a human and certainly deserves a fair shake on her Wiki bio. ] (]) 03:34, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

	::If I may, a quote copied directly from the introduction of Comedy Central's "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" article on Misplaced Pages: "Critics, ...have chastised Stewart for not conducting sufficiently hard-hitting interviews with his political guests, some of whom he may have previously lampooned in other segments. Stewart and other Daily Show writers have responded to both criticisms by saying that '''''they do not have any journalistic responsibility and that as comedians their only duty is to provide entertainment'''''." This should hopefully settle the farcical idea of including this, or any other quote from Comedy Central's The Daily Show with Whoever Happens to be Hosting" in any biography of a living person and from any attempts to include it as a supposed collegiate reference. Thanks for bearing with me. ] (]) 05:17, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

	== Recurring vandalism ==

	This article receives the same vandalism on a daily basis from multiple IP addresses. It almost appears to be an organized effort. What is the threshold for requesting semi-protection? ] (]) 14:55, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

	:Actually I had requested semi-prot soon after this latest spate of vandalism commenced but withdrew it to "wait and see" a bit longer. I think, however, we're getting quite close to requiring it now. Let's see what transpires from this point on before petitioning as there are several (I think) GF IP editors who have contributed. ] (]) 15:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

	== Show Update! ==

	Gretchen is no longer the co-host of Fox & Friends. She is going to have her own show called "The Real Story with Gretchen Carlson." Her bio needs to be updated. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 21:11, 27 September 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	That seems to have been added to the article and I changed it in the summary box on the side of the page. It might be worth editing the rest of the article at some point, but her new show is still new, so I think it might make sense to wait until the show has established itself.] (]) 19:39, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

	== Edit request on 29 September 2013 Gretchen Carlson Fox News ==

	{{edit semi-protected\|<!-- Page to be edited -->\|answered=yes}}
	<!-- Begin request -->
	Please change the first sentence of Gretchen Carlson's wiki from "who co-hosts the Fox News morning show Fox & Friends... " to "who hosts the Fox News daytime show 'The Real Story' with Gretchen Carlson weekdays at 2PM ET. Carlson was the co-host of the Fox News Morning show Fox & Friends along with Steve Doocy and Brian Kilmeade." This should be changed because she is no longer the host of Fox & Friends, she is now the host of a new daytime show - "The Real Story" with Gretchen Carlson on the Fox News Channel. I would appreciate it if the wiki was updated. Thank you so much!
	<ref>http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/09/25/real-story-with-gretchen-carlson-to-debut-sept-30-on-fox-news/</ref>
	<!-- End request -->
	<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:43, 29 September 2013</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

	:Done. I suggest that if you're interested, you start the new show stub at '']''. The Fox News site doesn't have a show url yet, though I see a few press release-y articles in the media. ] (]) 02:19, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

	{{reflist-talk}}

	== Violinist Claims ==

	Moderately interesting if true, but nothing about the violin piece is sourced here. ] (]) 20:42, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
	:Welcome to Misplaced Pages! ] A cursory search renders several reliable sources. Offline sources should be easy to find. ] (]) 04:04, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

	== Promo language in lead ==		== Promo language in lead ==
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	==Bill Oreilly and the guy from Red Eye==		==Bill Oreilly and the guy from Red Eye==
	I'm fine with this page but we need to reedit Keith Olberman's page to include criticism from Bill O'reilly and the guy from Red Eye...because, you know, it's important to include criticism on any political figure's page from extremists on the other side who are prone to hateful diatribes.		I'm fine with this page but we need to reedit Keith Olberman's page to include criticism from Bill O'reilly and the guy from Red Eye...because, you know, it's important to include criticism on any political figure's page from extremists on the other side who are prone to hateful diatribes.

			== Unsourced statement probably not true. ==

			This statement in the lede is probably not true:

			“Carlson has interviewed every Presidential candidate and President over the last two decades.”

			There are scores of people who have been “presidential candidates” who you’ve never heard of. They filed paperwork to be the candidate of some irrelevant party in one state or another, and may never have gotten on the ballot. Did she interview Virgil Goode, the constitution party’s presidential candidate in 2012? Or Don Blankenship in 2020? Was she even working during the 2020 primaries? Did she interview Jay Inslee and Julian Castro and the two dozen other Democratic candidates?

			More likely, Carlson inteviewed every ''major party'' candidate that won the party’s nomination. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 12:07, 29 November 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			:I've removed the statement, partially because it hasn't been cited in ten months, and is very likely untrue as asserted above. ] (]) 23:58, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

			== There are mountains of uncited assertions in this BLP ==

			I've tagged many of them. If these assertions are not addressed with sourcing I expect to remove them. ] (]) 00:08, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

			== Why is there no mention about the scandal during her first job as a reporter?? ==

			Souce (already cited as #19 on Misplaced Pages):
			https://www.styleweekly.com/tv-8-beauty-queen-back-on-local-airwaves/

			"But her tenure was tainted by a nationally publicized, tabloid-style scandal involving a reported affair with her married co-anchor, Kevin McGraw. While McGraw was let go in the wake of the scandal, Carlson left voluntarily to accept a job at WCPO-TV in Cincinnati. Before she left town, a few city luminaries threw her a glitzy, black-tie-optional send-off."

			I grew up in Richmond And I can tell you that this was major news at the time. This is not in the source, she was busted providing oral services to McGraw in the WRIC parking lot. The big black tie send off was done in hopes that she would keep her mouth shut about the many local politicians that she was also having affairs with.

			I find it odd that there's this great outpouring of sympathy for her when she it seems like Roger Ailes - who was lying, cheating human filth, I make no excuses for him - was just acting on her reputation. ] (]) 03:45, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

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Promo language in lead

Gaining experience as anchor and reporter for several local network affiliates, ...

Either this phrase was meant to begin "After gaining ..." or it's straight-up promotional language.

I suggest:

After gaining experience{{what}} as anchor and reporter for several local network affiliates{{which}}{{when}}, ...

— MaxEnt 13:54, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

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Bill Oreilly and the guy from Red Eye

I'm fine with this page but we need to reedit Keith Olberman's page to include criticism from Bill O'reilly and the guy from Red Eye...because, you know, it's important to include criticism on any political figure's page from extremists on the other side who are prone to hateful diatribes.

Unsourced statement probably not true.

This statement in the lede is probably not true:

“Carlson has interviewed every Presidential candidate and President over the last two decades.”

There are scores of people who have been “presidential candidates” who you’ve never heard of. They filed paperwork to be the candidate of some irrelevant party in one state or another, and may never have gotten on the ballot. Did she interview Virgil Goode, the constitution party’s presidential candidate in 2012? Or Don Blankenship in 2020? Was she even working during the 2020 primaries? Did she interview Jay Inslee and Julian Castro and the two dozen other Democratic candidates?

More likely, Carlson inteviewed every major party candidate that won the party’s nomination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.210.138.121 (talk) 12:07, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I've removed the statement, partially because it hasn't been cited in ten months, and is very likely untrue as asserted above. BusterD (talk) 23:58, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

There are mountains of uncited assertions in this BLP

I've tagged many of them. If these assertions are not addressed with sourcing I expect to remove them. BusterD (talk) 00:08, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Why is there no mention about the scandal during her first job as a reporter??

Souce (already cited as #19 on Misplaced Pages): https://www.styleweekly.com/tv-8-beauty-queen-back-on-local-airwaves/

"But her tenure was tainted by a nationally publicized, tabloid-style scandal involving a reported affair with her married co-anchor, Kevin McGraw. While McGraw was let go in the wake of the scandal, Carlson left voluntarily to accept a job at WCPO-TV in Cincinnati. Before she left town, a few city luminaries threw her a glitzy, black-tie-optional send-off."

I grew up in Richmond And I can tell you that this was major news at the time. This is not in the source, she was busted providing oral services to McGraw in the WRIC parking lot. The big black tie send off was done in hopes that she would keep her mouth shut about the many local politicians that she was also having affairs with.

I find it odd that there's this great outpouring of sympathy for her when she it seems like Roger Ailes - who was lying, cheating human filth, I make no excuses for him - was just acting on her reputation. 71.251.236.155 (talk) 03:45, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

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