| Revision as of 15:53, 26 June 2024 editAskarion (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users2,701 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024: marked done← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 21:48, 25 October 2024 edit undoTom.Reding (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Template editors3,882,811 editsm -{{BLP}}; +blp=yes (request); cleanupTag: AWB |
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{{Old AfD multi| date = January 12, 2007 |
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{{Old XfD multi| date = January 12, 2007 |
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== Page size and changes == |
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Two points: |
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* Page size has now reached 114 kB. Policy says pages of > 100 kB should "Almost certainly should be divided or trimmed". |
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* It is easier to follow changes when they are made in small increments. |
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] (]) 06:33, 1 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:I replaced a lot of the reception with a summary because of ] |
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:Size is now 96 kB ] (]) 22:16, 5 November 2023 (UTC) |
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== Typo. == |
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Hello, i wanted to warn users with edit perm that in 2011–2015 section, the word "malware" is written as "mawlare". ] (]) 11:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Rei Da Tecnologia}} I've fixed it. ]] 13:55, 13 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Minor typo == |
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"In 2013, the organisation assisted Edward Snowden leave Hong Kong" |
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It should be |
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"In 2013, the organisation assisted Edward Snowden in leaving Hong Kong" ] (]) 02:46, 20 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== RSP#WikiLeaks == |
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{{tq|Citing your own easy is cute}} essay went through ] and ]. Content copied from WP policy pages. I cited ] first. Ignoring RSP {{tq|is cute but}} against policy. Ignoring consensus required {{tq|is cute but}} against policy. |
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{{tq| but it’s common practice across the site to cite the subject’s own website for information about what it says it’s done}} Not when the site doesn't meet RSP. {{tq| It may be appropriate to cite a document from WikiLeaks as a primary source, '''but only if it is discussed by a reliable source'''.}} |
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I didnt remove '''any''' content and I left citations to WikiLeaks about what they said. It should be easy to find sources that meet RSP. ] (]) 14:25, 25 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:Considerations of reliability for information outside of the article subject are not at issue here. No-one is disputing the 2021 RfC. Like numerous other news and media organisations (and other institutions and individuals – see ]) we can cite the Wikileaks website for information about the views or outlook or what is presented as content on the Wikileaks website. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 15:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::] {{tq|Self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, usually in articles about themselves or their activities, without the self-published source requirement that they are established experts in the field, so long as:}} |
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::{{tq|1. the material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim;}} |
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::{{tq|2. it does not involve claims about third parties;}} |
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::They are self serving and ] and they involve third parties |
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::And @] said {{tq|Yes, ABOUTSELF allows linking to the main index page and About page, but WikiLeaks hosts lots of illegally obtained content, and I believe we are not allowed to link to such URLs. This list links to many such pages.}} ] |
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::Valjean started ] you said {{tq|Pinging @Diannaa as the resident expert to see whether such links represent a copyright issue.}} and no answer ] (]) 05:29, 29 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::There's nothing remotely self-serving about the information they support; the citations are merely for prosaic information about what documents they posted. Nor do they involve claims about third parties. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 06:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::::{{tq|There's nothing remotely self-serving about the information they support}} |
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::::Self serving to say |
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::::* published classified info |
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::::* published emails from vice president candidate |
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::::* published hundreds of thousands of diplomatic cables |
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::::{{tq|Nor do they involve claims about third parties.}} |
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::::Third parties |
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::::* vice president nominee |
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::::* US Embassy Reykjavik |
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::::* State Department (published hundreds of thousands of diplomatic cables) |
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::::* Guardian journalist WikiLeaks said {{tq|negligently disclosed Cablegate passwords}} |
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::::* Stratfor |
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::::* Syria |
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::::* Saudi Foreign Ministry |
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::::* AKP Party and source comments |
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::::Saying someone is not a source is about a third party. Have the information means third party lost it. ] (]) 14:15, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::It's not self-serving to state that you are releasing something on the internet on the internet page where you do so. |
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:::::Neither this article nor the source make any claim about the third parties you list. Your opinion that {{tq|Have the information means third party lost it}} is your own unsupported inference; it's neither claimed in this article nor stated in the source. The only claim related to a third party, that AKP emails are not connected "to the elements behind the attempted coup", is very clearly attributed in-text, with quotation marks. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 15:02, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::I agree with Cambial foliar in their argument that they are not unduly self serving. And they can be brought in as primary sources because of reliable sources discussing the area.. The bit about negligent about the password comes under statement in own defense about accusations. ] (]) 16:22, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Cambial |
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::::::{{tq|The only claim related to a third party, that AKP emails are not connected "to the elements behind the attempted coup", is very clearly attributed in-text, with quotation marks}} Not true and ABOUTSELF does not say you use self-published if attributed |
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::::::{{tq|Guardian journalist negligently disclosed Cablegate passwords}} How do you say that the self published editorial isnt about third party? |
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::::::{{tq|During 2008 and 2009, WikiLeaks published lists of forbidden or illegal web addresses for ], Denmark, Norway and Thailand.}} Australia, Denmark, Norway and Thailand are third parties |
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::::::{{tq|Your opinion that Have the information means third party lost it is your own unsupported inference; it's neither claimed in this article nor stated in the source.}} it says {{tq|the contents of a Yahoo account belonging to Republican vice presidential nominee ] were ] '''after being hacked by ] user David Kernell'''.}} |
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::::::NadVolum |
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::::::{{tq| The bit about negligent about the password comes under statement in own defense about accusations.}} That allows denials not self published editorials accusing other people and denial has other sources |
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::::::More problems |
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::::::COPYLINK on Confidential 9/11 Pager Messages and Stratfor |
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::::::Maybe COPYLINK Syria, TTP, and Saudi Cables |
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::::::{{tq|In mid-February 2010, WikiLeaks received a leaked diplomatic cable from the United States Embassy in Reykjavik relating to the ] scandal, which it published on 18 February.}} not supported by link restored. page does not say when received or about Icesave ] (]) 04:56, 4 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::Giving the attributed view of someone or something is a statement about the person or institution that expressed that view, "this is what this person said". It's not a statement ''about'' a third party. |
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:::::::You write "{{tq|Guardian journalist negligently disclosed Cablegate passwords}}". This is not in the article. |
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:::::::You write "{{tq|During 2008 and 2009, WikiLeaks published lists of forbidden or illegal web addresses for ], Denmark, Norway and Thailand.}}" This is cited to three other secondary sources. |
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:::::::You write "{{tq|the contents of a Yahoo account belonging to Republican vice presidential nominee ] were ] '''after being hacked by ] user David Kernell'''.}} I infer from the emphasis you added to this sentence that the part you object to is "after being hacked by ] user David Kernell". This claim is not mentioned in the WikiLeaks page, and it is not used to support this part of the sentence. That claim relies on two other sources. It has nothing to do with a (non-existent) claim about a third party on the WikiLeaks site and no relevance to your argument. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 13:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::{{tq|Giving the attributed view of someone or something is a statement about the person or institution that expressed that view, "this is what this person said". It's not a statement about a third party.}} A statement about third party. {{tq|Self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, usually in articles about themselves or their activities, without the self-published source requirement that they are established experts in the field, so long as: it does not '''involve claims about third parties'''}}. This is that |
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::::::::{{tq|You write "Guardian journalist negligently disclosed Cablegate passwords". This is not in the article.}} Thats the name of self published Wikileaks editorial cited in the article. |
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::::::::{{tq|This is cited to three other secondary sources.}} Yes so why do you need this? Saying there are RSes agrees with my first post. {{tq|I didnt remove any content and I left citations to WikiLeaks about what they said. It should be easy to find sources that meet RSP.}} |
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::::::::{{tq|You write "the contents of a Yahoo account belonging to Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin were posted on WikiLeaks after being hacked by 4chan user David Kernell. I infer from the emphasis you added to this sentence that the part you object to is "after being hacked by 4chan user David Kernell". This claim is not mentioned in the WikiLeaks page, and it is not used to support this part of the sentence. That claim relies on two other sources. It has nothing to do with a (non-existent) claim about a third party on the WikiLeaks site and no relevance to your argument.}} |
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::::::::Not true. The Wikileaks page says {{tq|activists loosely affiliated with the group 'anonymous' gained access to U.S. Republican Party Vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin's Yahoo email account}} |
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::::::::Why didnt you reply about the COPYLINK problems on the other citations you restored? |
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::::::::Why do you want self published sources and not RSes? I dont understand ] (]) 14:30, 4 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::{{tq|Thats the name of self published Wikileaks editorial}}. So? I don't understand. It's not used to support such a claim in the article. |
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:::::::::Supporting citations to the primary source (where the secondary sources are saying something about the primary source) are useful to the reader. |
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:::::::::{{tq|Not true.}} It is true. David Kernell is referred to in that sentence in the article. He is not mentioned on the Wikileaks page. "{{tq|activists loosely affiliated with the group 'anonymous'}}" are not mentioned in that section of the article. |
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:::::::::I see no copylink problem. |
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:::::::::I neglected {{tq|not supported by link restored. page does not say when received or about Icesave}} Page cited: "from US Embassy Reykjavik on Icesave". You're right about it not saying when it was received; I removed it. |
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:::::::::{{tq|and not RSes}} I've made no such argument, nor (I think) has anyone else. Arguing against a position no-one has taken is not productive. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 14:54, 4 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::{{tq|It's not used to support such a claim in the article.}} The material still involves {{tq|involve claims about third parties}} so its not right to link to it. But your right it doesnt support the claims cited to it in the article except {{tq|Knowledge of the Guardian disclosure has spread privately over several months but reached critical mass last week.}} which is about third party |
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::::::::::{{tq|Supporting citations to the primary source (where the secondary sources are saying something about the primary source) are useful to the reader.}} That doesnt change ABOUTSELF or the RSP or explain why you reverted |
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::::::::::CN tags for things that only had self-published primary source {{tq|It may be appropriate to cite a document from WikiLeaks as a primary source, but '''only if it is discussed by a reliable source'''.}} |
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::::::::::{{tq|I see no copylink problem.}} Why do you think Palins emails are public domain? Or Stratfor? Or Syria? Why do you think they do {{tq|not involve claims about third parties}} |
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::::::::::{{tq|I've made no such argument, nor (I think) has anyone else.}} I asked why you were doing what you were doing. You ], restored ] that ], and when you admitted that Icesave had info that wasnt in the source, you remove the info and didnt restore CN or better source tag. You ] not RSes and removed information instead of restoring it ] (]) 12:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::Its almost two weeks and because you are ] and there is ] on why you think the leaks are public domain or why "someone else wrote this" doesnt {{tq|involve claims about third parties}}, I will replace self published links with ] ] (]) 17:10, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::A lack of interest in reading you ] the same arguments yet again is ]. Both NadVolum and I oppose your proposed change. Your admonishment that {{tq|The material still involves involve claims about third parties so its not right to link to it.}} is not policy but your own moral judgment. I do not share your view and it is not relevant to creating this site. I have no objection to the addition of further secondary sources. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 17:32, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::::If you wont explain why you think these things dont involve third parties, then they should be removed. Do not add self-published material that has been objected to again. Do not add suspected COPYLINK violations again. And refusing to answer questions isnt {{tq|A lack of interest in reading you ] the same arguments yet again}}. ] (]) 17:38, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::::I'm not explaining things yet again to you just because you ]. The policy about claims about third parties is about what is stated in the article, as is already explained in the policy and in the discussion above. There is no copylink violation, and there's no self-published material in the article. You need to stop edit-warring against consensus and trying to bulldoze changes to get your own way. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 18:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::::::{{tq|I'm not explaining things yet again to you just because you refuse to listen to other editors.}} You ]. |
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:::::::::::::::{{tq|The policy about claims about third parties is about what is stated in the article, as is already explained in the policy and in the discussion above.}} The policy says not to use it if it {{tq|involve claims about third parties}}. This involves claims about third parties. |
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:::::::::::::::{{tq|The policy about claims about third parties is about what is stated in the article, as is already explained in the policy and in the discussion above.}} Where? ] does not say that. And you didnt say the policy said that. ] (]) 18:35, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::::@] Can you give third opinion on COPYLINK issue? If you say its okay I will stop objection ] (]) 17:57, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::::::Sorry I don't have the time or interest to investigate this. — ] (]) 18:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::::::Ok ] (]) 18:56, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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{{od|15}} |
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Quoting ] (again): {{Teal|may be used as sources of information about themselves, usually in articles about themselves or their activities...so long as: The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim; It does not involve claims about third parties}}. The information sourced in this instance does not involve claims about third parties. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 19:08, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{tq|The information sourced in this instance does not involve claims about third parties.}} But it involves third parties. |
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:{{tq|If you wont explain why you think these things dont involve third parties, then they should be removed.}} You havent explained why you think Syria and Stratfor and Sarah Palin emails do not involve claims about third parties. Stratfor involves Stratfor. It is a third party. |
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:{{tq|The policy about claims about third parties is about what is stated in the article}} what you quoted does not say that. |
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] (]) 19:13, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::The information sourced in the article to WikiLeaks (WikiLeaks published x document) does not involve a claim about a third party. That's why you've been unable to give an example of any that does. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 19:17, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Documents from a third parties that are named |
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:::You also restored WikiLeaks accusing a Guardian journalist of things, a blatant BLP violation ] (]) 19:19, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::There's no claims about the third parties, though, which is what is at issue. Do not make things up about other editors' actions. I added no such material (nor ''any'' material: I only restored useful citations). <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 19:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::{{tq|Do not make things up about other editors' actions. I added no such material (nor any material: I only restored useful citations).}} Saying you {{tq|restored}} it does not contradict me saying that you {{tq|restored}} it. A self published claim about a third party is a BLP violation. ] {{tq|Never use self-published sources—including but not limited to books, zines, websites, blogs, and social network posts—as sources of material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the article.}} |
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:::::{{tq|There's no claims about the third parties, though, which is what is at issue.}} Yes there are. Saying a journalist negligently did something is a claim about a third party. Stratfor is a third party. Everyone in the Syria emails is a third party. ] (]) 11:43, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Your bizarre claim that "{{tq|Saying you {{tq|restored}} it does not contradict me saying that you {{tq|restored}} it.}}" makes no sense. We are both clearly referring to different things. Do not make things up about other editors' actions. You claimed, falsely - having made it up - that I restored {{tq|WikiLeaks accusing a Guardian journalist of things, a blatant BLP violation}}. I didn't restore ''any'' article text, and thus didn't restore a BLP violation, because there was none in this part of the article. |
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::::::You claim {{tq|Saying a journalist negligently did something is a claim about a third party.}} The article text didn't say this. |
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::::::The article text did not contain claims about Stratfor or people in the Syria emails sourced to WikiLeaks. This manufactured claim is your only argument that we cannot use the article subject's website for claims about itself, because the article might *also* contain claims about third parties sourced to WikiLeaks. But the article doesn't contain claims about third parties sourced to WikiLeaks, and your argument is based on an entirely manufactured premise. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 12:09, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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{{od|6}} |
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Your manufactured premise explains why, despite all the words you've expended here, you've been unable to name any claim about a third party in this article sourced to WikiLeaks. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 12:17, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{tq|Your bizarre claim that "Saying you restored it does not contradict me saying that you restored it." makes no sense. We are both clearly referring to different things.}} No |
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:{{tq|I didn't restore any article text, and thus didn't restore a BLP violation, because there was none in this part of the article.}} You restored the citation saying that. Thats all I said. |
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:The ''name'' of that citation is {{tq|Guardian journalist negligently disclosed Cablegate passwords}} that alone is a claim about third parties |
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:{{tq|Your manufactured premise}} Stop making accusations |
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:{{tq|you've been unable to name any claim about a third party in this article sourced to WikiLeaks.}} I gave several but since you want quotes from article |
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:* {{tq|detailing the protocol of the ] at the ]}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|a Yahoo account belonging to Republican vice presidential nominee ] were ] after being hacked by ] user David Kernell}} |
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:* {{tq|lists of forbidden or illegal web addresses for ], Denmark, Norway and Thailand.}} |
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:* {{tq|These were created to}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|Wikileaks pages were also added to the Australian blacklist}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|pager messages sent on the day of the ]}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|diplomatic cable from the United States Embassy in Reykjavik}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|a secret 32-page ] Counterintelligence Analysis Report}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|from the Texas-headquartered "global intelligence" company ]}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|began publishing the ], both had given to WikiLeaks by ]}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|files covering the rules and procedures for detainees in US military custody.}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|a draft of the ]'s Intellectual Property Rights chapter}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|cables and other documents from the Saudi Foreign Ministry}} Third party |
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:* {{tq|"is not connected, in any way, to the elements behind the attempted coup, or to a rival political party or state"}} Third party |
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:You said {{tq|The policy about claims about third parties is about what is stated in the article}} but when I asked where it, you gave quote that said material can be used {{tq|so long as}} it {{tq|does not involve claims about third parties.}} The material involves claims about third parties ] (]) 13:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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You claim there were "claims about third parties" in the article sourced to WikiLeaks. The above is simply a list of third parties - it's not claims about a third party sourced to WikiLeaks, which is your stated rationale for why ] does not apply. If there were such a claim about a third party sourced only to WikiLeaks in the article, you could have simply removed that claim, resolving what you say is the issue. Because there were none, that's not what you did. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 13:21, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{tq|If there were such a claim about a third party sourced only to WikiLeaks in the article, you could have simply removed that claim, resolving what you say is the issue.}} They were sourced only to WikiLeaks Why would I remove the claim when I could fix it like I did? If I had removed the mention of the Syria Files, Stratfor emails, and the Saudi Cables and all the others you would object to that and youd be right |
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:{{tq|If there were such a claim about a third party sourced only to WikiLeaks in the article}} The policy says you cant make claims about third party {{tq|sourced only to}} self published source. It says you cant use self published source if the material '''involves''' claims about third parties |
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:{{tq|your stated rationale for why ] does not apply}} I didnt say it doesnt apply, I said it says you cant use it ] (]) 13:28, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::You claim {{tq|They were sourced only to WikiLeaks}}. You again fail to include any claim about a third party. Because they don't exist. A list of third parties appearing in the article does not back up your manufactured premise. There was no material in the article sourced to WikiLeaks that involved a claim about a third party. And you've still failed to list a single example showing differently. Making another list of some people doesn't support your empty argument. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 13:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::{{tq|There was no material in the article sourced to WikiLeaks that involved a claim about a third party.}} They involved third parties and thats what ] says is not allowed |
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:::{{tq|your manufactured premise}} Please stop making ] |
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:::I dont think you ever said why you think its important to include these self-published sources when there are independent, reliable sources ] (]) 13:43, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::You falsely claim that {{tq|They involved third parties and thats what ] says is not allowed}}. Misrepresenting policy will not help you here. The caveat in the policy is {{Teal|so long as: The material...does not involve claims about third parties}}. |
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::::{{tq|I dont think you ever said}}. I've already explained why {{diff2|1210218381|here}} and {{diff2|1211800347|here}}. You've still failed to list any article material involving a ''claim about a third party'' sourced to WikiLeaks. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 13:50, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::{{tq|I've already explained why here and here. }} They dont explain why you think it '''should''' be used or why its '''important'''. The first says {{tq|we can cite the Wikileaks website for information about the views or outlook or what is presented as content on the Wikileaks website.}} The second says that {{tq|Supporting citations to the primary source (where the secondary sources are saying something about the primary source) are useful to the reader.}} but not what it adds. What does the primary source add that isnt in the secondary source? Why is it important? |
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:::::{{tq|You've still failed to list any article material involving a ''claim about a third party sourced'' to WikiLeaks.}} If the material did not involve the third parties named, you could remove the mention of them. You cant. The third party is central to it |
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:::::But even if you dont agree that the policy does not say {{tq|claim about a third party}} it says {{tq|involve}} ({{tq|Misrepresenting policy will not help you here.}}), there '''are''' claims about third parties. I already quoted some like {{tq|a Yahoo account '''belonging to Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin'''}} and {{tq|both had given to WikiLeaks '''by Anonymous'''}} and {{tq|"is not connected, in any way, to '''the elements behind the attempted coup, or to a rival political party or state'''"}} that do |
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:::::'''And no other editor has agreed with you on that''' ] (]) 18:42, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::No editor has agreed with your inaccurate claim this is self-published, nor with your unorthodox and contrarian view all citations to the website that is the subject of this article ought to be removed. Two editors have voiced their opposition. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 19:17, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::{{tq|your inaccurate claim this is self-published}} You dont think its self published? ] (]) 19:19, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::I never said {{tq|all citations to the website that is the subject of this article ought to be removed.}} and I never tried to remove many of the citations to the website ] (]) 19:22, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::Something published by a media organisation is not self-published. The notion WikiLeaks is self-published is your own invention to try get others to acquiesce to your demands to get your own way. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 19:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::] makes no exception for media organisations and ] does nothing to support that its still allowed. It does say you cant link to copyright violations, which you have restored repeatedly |
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:::::::::{{tq|Something published by a media organisation is not self-published}} ] says you are wrong {{tq|'''Self-published material is characterized by the lack of independent reviewers (those without a conflict of interest)''' validating the reliability of the content. '''Further examples of self-published sources include press releases, the material contained within company websites''', advertising campaigns, '''material published in media by the owner(s)/publisher(s) of the media group'''}} ] (]) 19:37, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::The self-published material policy does not say I am wrong. You are wrong. Pasting and adding bold formatting to text from the policy does not make it relevant here. These examples are not {{Teal|material published in media by the owner(s)/publisher(s) of the media group}}. If a link were to an editorial by Assange on WikiLeaks that would be self-published. There are a few rare examples of this, and WikiLeaks marks them as editorial (). As far as I can see none of the citations on this article are to such material. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 20:04, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::You said that {{tq|Something published by a media organisation is not self-published}}. If you dont think that WikiLeaks press releases are press releaes, '''the policy still says it applies to media organisations'''. {{tq|material published in media by the owner(s)/publisher(s) of the media group}} and that the editors cant have conflict of interest {{tq|characterized by the lack of independent reviewers (those without a conflict of interest)}} |
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::::::::::::WikiLeaks publishing something saying it did something meets that |
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::::::::::::But we wont agree. Would you listen to Reliable Sources noticeboard if they say its self-published? ] (]) 22:01, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== Daily Dot questionable? == |
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== Daily Dot questionable? == |
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''In response to a question in 2010 about whether WikiLeaks would release information that he knew might get someone killed, Assange said that he had instituted a "harm-minimization policy." This meant that people named in some documents might be contacted before publication, '''but that there were also times were members''' of WikiLeaks might have "blood on our hands." One member of WikiLeaks told The New Yorker they were initially uncomfortable with Assange's editorial policy but changed her mind because she thought no one had been unjustly harmed.'' ] (]) 15:24, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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''In response to a question in 2010 about whether WikiLeaks would release information that he knew might get someone killed, Assange said that he had instituted a "harm-minimization policy." This meant that people named in some documents might be contacted before publication, '''but that there were also times were members''' of WikiLeaks might have "blood on our hands." One member of WikiLeaks told The New Yorker they were initially uncomfortable with Assange's editorial policy but changed her mind because she thought no one had been unjustly harmed.'' ] (]) 15:24, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{done}}. '''〜''' <span style="font-family:Big Caslon;border-radius:9em;padding:0 7px;background:#437a4b">]</span> ] 15:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{done}}. '''〜''' <span style="font-family:Big Caslon;border-radius:9em;padding:0 7px;background:#437a4b">]</span> ] 15:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== About the ] announcement on the top == |
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I think it's very necessary to add the announcement about "WikiLeaks is not part of, also have no relations with us Misplaced Pages" at the top of the page. But I can't find a proper way to add it. So I want to ask others' opinions about this suggestion. ] (]) 14:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:Is there any evidence anyone is confused?--] (]) 01:36, 6 July 2024 (UTC) |
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::There was a problem many years back with people who clearly ''were'' confused posting hostile comments on this talk page: see e.g. this discussion. I'd be surprised if it is still happening now with enough regularity to be an issue though. ] (]) 01:50, 6 July 2024 (UTC) |
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== Typo == |
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The word "raided" is mistakenly repeated in the sentence "In March 2009, German police raided raided the offices of Wikileaks Germany and the homes of Theodor Reppe, who owned the registration for WikiLeaks' German domain while searching for evidence of 'distribution of pornographic material'." ] (]) 05:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:Fixed. ]] 15:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
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== Trump–Russia relations == |
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Is this really relevant ? ] (]) 09:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:thats how templates work ] (]) 04:42, 2 August 2024 (UTC) |
The article prose mentions "donation" or "donations" 30 times, and extensively covers bank and credit card donations, and the ectensive efforts of various state and financial entities to stop or halt such payment channels to WikiLeaks. Yet it makes no mention at all of WikiLeaks accepting donations in cryptocurrency.
Odd that. The official website of WikiLeaks, linked as the first item in the "External links" section of the article, clearly indicates that WikiLeaks is set up to receive donations in at least a half dozen digital assets, that do not pass through banks or credit card processing centers. N2e (talk) 16:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
I think it's very necessary to add the announcement about "WikiLeaks is not part of, also have no relations with us Misplaced Pages" at the top of the page. But I can't find a proper way to add it. So I want to ask others' opinions about this suggestion. Awdqmb (talk) 14:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
The word "raided" is mistakenly repeated in the sentence "In March 2009, German police raided raided the offices of Wikileaks Germany and the homes of Theodor Reppe, who owned the registration for WikiLeaks' German domain while searching for evidence of 'distribution of pornographic material'." 2001:16B8:DEF:E100:507E:A9D5:6C00:932C (talk) 05:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
.svg){kind=small}
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
.svg){kind=icon}
Done. 〜 Askarion ✉ 15:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC)