| Revision as of 20:28, 11 November 2014 editNagle (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers16,107 edits →Article rewrite← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 12:22, 21 November 2024 edit undoTom.Reding (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Template editors3,874,261 editsm →top: followup cleanupTag: AWB |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=yes|class=Start|listas=Bahar, Dany|1= |
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{{Image requested|business and economics people}} |
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{{WikiProject Biography |
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{{WikiProject Biography}} |
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{{WikiProject Business|importance=Low}} |
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{{WikiProject Turkey|importance=Low}} |
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|listas = Bahar, Dany |
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{{Image requested|business and economics people}} |
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{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|archiveprefix=Talk:Dany Bahar/Archives/|format=Y|age=26297|index=yes|archivebox=yes|box-advert=yes}} |
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== NPOV dispute == |
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EDIT: I have now removed much if not all of the remarks exemplified below as per Misplaced Pages's guidelines ref. slanderous and non-sourced material. |
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There are a few alarming remarks in this article. Select parts of the page are very immaturely written and composed, and display obvious negative bias for the person in question. I will list a few examples below. There is also a major lack of sources for the quotes provied. |
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1. - line 3 of the Career section (immature / bias) |
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2. - line 5 of the Career section (immature / bias) |
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3. - line 6 of the Career section (first sentence incomprehensible) |
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4. - line 10 of the Career section (immature / bias) |
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5. - line 12 of the Career section (profanity / bias / immature) |
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6. - line 20 of the Career section (immaturity) |
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7. - line 22 of the Career section (slanderous / bias) |
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] (]) 01:33, 27 January 2013 (UTC) |
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==Removal of Unfounded Claims== |
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Hi. There are some frankly bizarre claims that have been added to this article and haven't been challenged by other editors, e.g. Dany Bahar is a yodler. I'll be working to have these inaccuracies removed on behalf of my client, unless anyone can cite evidence to the contrary. Please contact me on my Talk Page of you want to discuss this further. Thanks ] (]) 11:44, 20 February 2013 (UTC) |
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==Suggested Changes== |
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Hi. If somebody could please review my suggested changes to the Dany Bahar article, outlined in more detail below. My additional content and references have been highlighted in <b>bold</b> and are focused on the Personal Background and Career sections of the article. <br> If you have any questions then do contact me on my Talk Page. Many thanks ] (]) 17:00, 28 February 2013 (UTC) |
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===Personal Background=== |
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Dany Bahar grew up in the picturesque Swiss town of Silvaplana following his parents relocation not long after his birth. He is married to Anett Johansson <b>(daughter of recruiter Björn Johansson)</b> with whom he has three children. Dany divides his time between Switzerland, where he holds citizenship, Austria and Dubai, balancing family life with various business interests.<ref></ref> |
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===Career=== |
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He achieved a Bachelor in Economics and Marketing and then went on to gain an MBA in Economics and Marketing studying in both Vienna and <b>Geneva</b>.<ref></ref> In the early 90's, he began his professional sports marketing career working in inline-skating before moving on to work for the President of the International Roller Sports Federation.<ref></ref> In mid-2001 Dany Bahar began working for the Fritz Kaiser Group (FKG), a wealth management company based in Lichtenstein. <b> At FKG, Bahar took on the responsibility for some of the company’s most important client accounts including that of Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz.</b> <ref></ref> |
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Mateschitz recruited Bahar in late 2002, <b>making him Head of Corporate Projects Business at Red Bull GmbH with responsibility for overall corporate business development and branding.</b> During his time at Red Bull, Bahar <b>led</b> the diversification of the brand into NASCAR and football with the acquisition of teams in Salzburg, New York and Ghana.<ref></ref> <b>He also orchestrated Red Bull’s purchase of the Jaguar and Minardi F1 teams, which were rebranded as Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso.<b/> <ref></ref> In 2006 a move to Ferrari followed where Bahar took on</b> the role of Senior Vice President, Commercial and Brand responsible for worldwide car sales and aftersales. In addition to this, Bahar oversaw the road car and F1 marketing activities, licensing and merchandising.<ref></ref> Bahar’s emphasis at Ferrari was ensuring that the products were <b>client-led</b> rather than <b>engineering-led and</b> ensuring that the needs of the client were paramount. He took a fresh outlook to Ferrari’s traditional approach to activities such as car launches with the online launch of the California allowing the car maker to appeal to a wider, younger audience. Bahar also increased the merchandising activity. |
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<b>In 2009</b> Bahar was approached by Group Lotus owners Proton Holdings Behad. After putting together a five-year business plan to return the company to profit, Bahar accepted the offer and began his tenure as Chief Executive Officer of Group Lotus where he remained in charge until June 2012.<ref></ref> <ref></ref> |
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{{reflist-talk|close=1}} |
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:{{A note}}This change needs much work to be accepted. Firstly the references need to be fixed then we will address the neutrality issues. Use ]. If you really want to make changes to this article you will need to improve your wiki knowledge.]]] 23:25, 28 February 2013 (UTC) |
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::There are a few suggestions I would put forward with these changes: |
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::# As per Geremy's suggestions, you need some help with writing footnotes. ] is a good place to start, as is the template documentation at {{tl|Cite web}}. |
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::# It's difficult for non-German speakers to evaluate whether these references are ]. Perhaps someone fluent in German who is listed in the ] can assist with this. |
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::# This source is to a message forum, which is a ] and not considered reliable. It mentions information from "Italispeed" so if that source can be located, link to it and then it's reliability can be evaluated. |
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::# This source looks like a press release aggregator and the actual source is here . |
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::# Adjectives like "renowned", "reputable", "right hand man" and "driving force" are considered ] because they only serve to inflate the importance of what they're describing instead of imparting objective information. |
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::I would rewrite your submission with these suggestions and resubmit it here for further evalution. --] (]) 00:00, 3 March 2013 (UTC) |
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I've been asked about the reliability of the cited sources. Bilanz.ch is a reputed Swiss financial news magazine, and a reliable source. insideparadeplatz.ch is probably ... semi-reliable: it's a news website run by a veteran economic affairs journalist, ], who has been associated with noted scoops as well as some reporting failures, according to the sources cited in the de.wp article. It has no editorial oversight, but meets the conditions of ]: "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 20:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC) |
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{{A note}}Reads much better now and is a concise rendition of what's already in the article. The only two remaining hang ups I see at this time are<br> |
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1) the use of the term '''headhunter'''. Although business oriented minds may very well be familiar with this term I think the word ] or recruited would be more suitable for mass consumption on Misplaced Pages. It's a lowest common denominator issue. We can't use the wikified ] because it leads to a disambiguation page.<br> |
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2)That lead sentence is just one long run-on sentence with no less than 4 commas. Chop up that '''Personal background''' and fill it out with some content. |
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I know you're in PR and this must seem like shackles on your wrists. A watered-down version of what's best for your client but this is Misplaced Pages. A powerful tool if used right, no doubt. There are caveats to using the website ranked 7 in traffic in the US, 6th in Global traffic<ref>http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wikipedia.org#</ref>. This current submission, although not the fanfare common from the PR engine will most likely be approved by unassociated editors. Another to consider is an ] and get a nice picture of him up if you wish. That wouldn't by against NPOV policy. Upload it to .]]] 15:34, 4 March 2013 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk|close=1}} |
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Hi Geremy, thanks for these further suggestions – I've now made those changes. Let me know when you're happy for me to update the article accordingly. On your last point concerning PR – my primary intention has been to remove glaring inaccuracies, inserted anonymously, that had compromised the article and which no other users were in any hurry to rectify. We have met with Jimmy Wales in person; our relationship with Misplaced Pages is completely transparent and we are fully aware that working with the community is the only way to go. No one’s being shackled here – I appreciate your help and understand and respect the caveats you're talking about. Thanks again.] (]) 16:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC) |
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:You don't need my permission to proceed you've followed ] to avoid action against you. You've satisfied the concerns of the editors involved, thanks for contacting me.]]] 13:31, 5 March 2013 (UTC) |
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==Article rewrite== |
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Hi – I've put together a ] that addresses the multiple issues flagged here and is intended as a replacement for this version. It is properly sourced, well structured and neutrally worded. I have a COI in that I work for Bell Pottinger and Dany Bahar is my client. I have made this clear on my user page and on ]. If someone could take a look and post here or on my talk page that would be great. Many thanks. ] (]) 01:12, 8 November 2014 (UTC) |
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: That reads like advertising. Compare the BBC's capsule bio., or the one from Business Week. |
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: If you want to improve the article, here are a few things you can do to get started. |
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:* Provide a photo, by taking one and uploading it to Misplaced Pages. That you can do even with a COI. Simple headshots are preferred. |
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:* Provide solid citations for educational background. What schools, what degrees, year of graduation. Reliable sources per ] are necessary. |
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:* Mr. Bahar is not listed in the history of the International Roller Sports Association. A cite for that is needed. |
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::] (]) 18:50, 8 November 2014 (UTC) |
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::], you misunderstand me – I'm well aware of this existing article on Dany Bahar, but it's clearly lacking in quality, uses peacock terms (needs of the client paramount, fresh outlook, reignited, etc.), lacks relevant details of his various roles, is poorly referenced and its neutrality is disputed. The tag suggests a rewrite may be needed, hence I've rewritten it. If you think the tone of my draft isn't neutral, please indicate where and why and I will amend it for you to take another look. Given the peacock terms of this article I think the draft compares favourably. Many thanks. ] (]) 10:17, 11 November 2014 (UTC) |
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::: OK, removed some of the peacocking. Left the part about switching Ferrari from an enginering focus to a customer-satisfaction focus. Compare Bob_Lutz_(businessman) of GM, who did did something similar there. In general, replacing an entire article, especially from a COI position, is discouraged on Misplaced Pages. Are there any factual errors that need to be fixed? ] (]) 20:28, 11 November 2014 (UTC) |
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