| Revision as of 15:37, 17 February 2024 editUnitarian9999 (talk | contribs)36 edits →Authenticity Of Article: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reply← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 12:48, 21 November 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,303,657 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:New Age/Archive 10) (bot |
| (43 intermediate revisions by 13 users not shown) |
| Line 27: |
Line 27: |
|
{{WikiProject Philosophy|importance=Mid|religion=yes|contemporary=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Philosophy|importance=Mid|religion=yes|contemporary=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Religion|importance=High|NRM=yes|NRMImp=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Religion|importance=High|NRM=yes|NRMImp=Top}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Occult|importance=Mid}} |
|
{{WikiProject Skepticism|importance=mid}} |
|
{{WikiProject Skepticism|importance=mid}} |
|
{{WikiProject Spirituality|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Spirituality|importance=high}} |
| Line 43: |
Line 44: |
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|
|archive = Talk:New Age/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|archive = Talk:New Age/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|algo = old(90d) |
|
|algo = old(365d) |
|
|counter = 10 |
|
|counter = 10 |
|
|maxarchivesize = 200K |
|
|maxarchivesize = 200K |
| Line 50: |
Line 51: |
|
|archiveheader = {{aan}} |
|
|archiveheader = {{aan}} |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
|
|
|
== Conflation of Hindu and Buddhist thought with New Age. == |
|
|
|
|
|
A concern I have with this article is what seems to be the conflation of Hinduism and eastern religions with New Age. The perspective of the article seems to be that any western interest in the ancient religions of the east constitutes an expression of New Age thinking. This is problematic as it denies the ancientness of these traditions and assumes that western interest in them is pathological and misguided. ] (]) 16:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== One thing or many things being artificially lumped together? == |
|
|
The article seems to lump together many disparate ideologies as one milieu while also, in several places, admitting that these people do not self describe as "New Agers." The article uses circular logic arguing that New Age "is typified by its eclecticism" while '''not giving any reason for all these various ideologies being grouped together under a single umbrella.''' Before reading the article, my understanding was that New Age only pertained to the idea of "Astrological cycles" very briefly described in the "Astrological cycles and the Age of Aquarius" section. It looks me like, rather than a unified movement or umbrella ideology, that people not understanding the beliefs and practices of certain (non-Judeo-Christian, non-atheist) white people have just mentally lumped them all together as "hippy stuff." |
|
|
|
|
|
I suggest instead that the one thing unifying all these clearly distinct ideologies is that each has been a reaction against the lost of spiritual identity in modern, post-enlightenment materialism while also being unable to embrace modern Christianity. Many effects can have the same cause without the effects being classified as one thing. |
|
|
|
|
|
The ideas of the article also smell of a kind of racism, as though the idea is, "All these white people aren't Christian, aren't atheist, and are doing very different 'spiritual' things, so it must be a singular movement." The fact that these people are described as getting ideas from ancient spiritual traditions indicates that the people described are individually seeking something missing in the broader culture and perhaps at times finding support with each other despite having differing beliefs rather than one movement which supports "supermarket spirituality" for each of its members. |
|
|
|
|
|
IMO, either the entire article needs to be rewritten from the perspective that this is a conceptualization of a phenomenon (since apparently there have been academics who do conceptualize these various things as a singular), or the article needs to be split into several interlinked articles and reference that the behaviour, belief, or ideology has been described by specific individuals as New Age. |
|
|
|
|
|
As support for my suggested rethinking of "New Age" compare the Japanese concept of ''shinshūkyō'' in the article ]. Though these are completely different groups, the fact that so many groups have appeared since the Scientific Revolution could suggest similar causes as a reaction to the effects of the Scientific Revolution. ] (]) 20:31, 9 September 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
:"the lost of spiritual identity in modern, post-enlightenment materialism while also being unable to embrace modern Christianity." While I would not add it to the article's text, my guess is that the rise of the ] movements, the spread of ], and the ] of much of the ] have a common cause. A considerable number of people find traditional versions of Christianity to be unappealing, and search for an ideology which would satisfy their spiritual needs. In any case, do you have sources to support the changes which you propose? ] (]) 08:18, 12 September 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
So would is be okay to state that: "The New Age ideologies are a reaction against the lack of spiritual identity in an increasingly materialistic world. A world where people have lost the will and ability to embrace the idea of Christianity"? Also, could something be said about the way Christianity was made to seem of little value in the lives of people? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 21:16, 9 November 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|
| ⚫ |
:If there's a reliable source supporting it, probably. I'd have to review the source to form an opinion. ] ] 21:25, 9 November 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== New Age, Aliens & Consciousness == |
|
|
|
|
|
New age is very individualized it can be a series or multiple series of new age practices. |
|
|
|
|
|
Multiple Dimensions are usually brought up in most new age practices. |
|
|
|
|
|
Universal alien species aka aliens their origins of different species outside of Earth such as aliens from different planets are brought into theories mindsets & practices. Such terms as starseed |
|
|
|
|
|
New age mindset |
|
|
Believing that one individual or a group of individuals is over a certain dimension, to raise the collective consciousness is a new age thought and belief pattern that is becoming more, and more popular. ] (]) 23:27, 29 November 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Where is Law of Attraction? == |
|
== Where is Law of Attraction? == |
| Line 98: |
Line 69: |
|
|
|
|
|
== Authenticity Of Article == |
|
== Authenticity Of Article == |
|
|
{{hat|reason=Trolling by now-blocked user}} |
|
|
|
|
I'm afraid this article is biased as it is against the New Age and is referring to Adventism, the belief in a redemption of a select few at the end of the world. The New Age is not like that. Please be neutral and use neutral sources whenever possible. ] (]) 15:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
I'm afraid this article is biased as it is against the New Age and is referring to Adventism, the belief in a redemption of a select few at the end of the world. The New Age is not like that. Please be neutral and use neutral sources whenever possible. ] (]) 15:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:By the way, you're thinking backwards. The New Age does not go by the same paradigm of thought like many of your articles into which are more accurate (like your article on archae or "archaebacteria"). If you were to use neutral sources like Melody Baker's ''A New Consciousness'', then you have it made. ] (]) 15:34, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
:By the way, you're thinking backwards. The New Age does not go by the same paradigm of thought like many of your articles into which are more accurate (like your article on archae or "archaebacteria"). If you were to use neutral sources like Melody Baker's ''A New Consciousness'', then you have it made. ] (]) 15:34, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
:Oh, and your article is too much information. Shorten it as much as possible. ] (]) 15:37, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
:Oh, and your article is too much information. Shorten it as much as possible. ] (]) 15:37, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:The article on the New Age instates a concise definition is difficult. Yes, but one person has made a solid definition. I won't reveal his name, but someone else said the New Age is a "different religion." I apologize for any hard feelings depicted on my posts. ] (]) 16:14, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:We like to stay neutral at Misplaced Pages, meaning that we report only what reliable secondary sources say. That isn’t to say that this article might not be biased - in fact it might very well be, if indeed it refers to adventism instead of actual New Age thought at some points. If you could provide some sources and some specific points that you’d like to fix you can post those here and/or make the edit. ] (]) 17:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::Oh, don't worry about that. I am just making sure the sources are not biased. There is a book by counselor Melody Baker titled ''A New Consciousness: The True Spirit Of New Age'', describing a nationwide survey and results from New Age Unitarians with individual stories. It turns out that the article on ] is identical to the stereotype of New Age adherents. The Unitarians she dealt with were a stark contradiction to the popular stereotype Misplaced Pages describes. ] (]) 23:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::That's good fact checking, thank you for that. If it ends up not being the greatest source and we need another I can start the search for another if needed. ] (]) 02:59, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::Thank you, and Godspeed. ] (]) 20:59, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:Even though the article is well-written and thoroughly comprehensive, I find the term ''New Age'' to be American slang for ] and the "New Age movement" of the 20th century the popularity of the Taoist faith. It died out in 2002 when Taoism became the third-largest religion on Earth at 1.1 billion. I know, because I watched it on a PBS news program on religion that announced its demise in early 2003. Now, it's 1.4 billion. |
|
|
:This is what I call New Age in a nutshell. ] (]) 14:02, 4 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::Is there a specific change you’d like to make to the article? ] (]) 14:22, 4 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::Just a brief summary that can be understood by everyone. Other than that, no specific change. Yes, the New Age is a religion ''in the general sense'', but due to its diversity, there's no telling who's who. I know, because I am one of them. ] (]) 18:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
{{od}} |
|
|
Where does the article refer to adventism? ] - ] 21:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:It doesn't. ] (]) 21:14, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::''A New Consciousness'' is from 1991, published by New Thought Pub, an obscure publisher, and written by Melodie Baker, an unknown author. With other words: totally fails ]. ] - ] 21:18, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::Um, no, that's not in any way how we determine whether a source is reliable. The only concern here would be if it is self-published. Is the author the owner of the press? ] (]) 21:20, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::If you discover what this publisher is, then you can tell me... ] - ] 21:23, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::: refer's to Baker's book. ] - ] 21:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::::New Thought Publishing Co. was (is?) a Chicago publisher established around the beginning of the 20th century. It published many early New Thought authors. Not sure whether it still exists, but it still did in the 1990s. ] (]) 21:44, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::Uh, Skyrise, that is referring to the older ''New Age'' magazine periodical founded in the early 20th century, but I don't think New Thought Publishing is still available. If you wish to make your articles more credible, I suggest you renew your sources once a year (after our annual pledge drive). ] (]) 23:33, 29 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::::::Self-published? ''Oh, no!'' 😭. In reference to Eckankar, a former leader by the name of Sri Darwin Gross self-published his book ''We Kids'' as a reaction to his excommunication from Eckankar and replaced by Sri Harold Klemp. See who's the new "Living ECK master" if something happened to Klemp. Just make sure the publisher is authentic. ] (]) 23:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::::Ah, I thought you didn't make much sense. Now I see it's intentional. Muted. ] (]) 23:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::Guys, I owe you and Misplaced Pages an apology. I thought the article on ] was about the religion of the same name. Instead, it described a millenarian movement of lay practitioners. I believe that the Unitarian "New Age" would be found under ]. Practitioners of this "New Age" are also called Unitarians due to their uniqueness. ] (]) 20:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
{{hab}} |
|
|
|
|
|
== New Age Religion == |
|
|
{{hat|Trolling by now-blocked sockpuppet of the above user}} |
|
|
Although the New Age is technically a religion with a different vantage, the sources of this article are obsolete and not always reliable. If possible, I propose an alternate subject being ''New Age (Religion)''. This is not to be a replacement for the article on the New Age movement but instead a separate article instating that a religion of the same name exists and sources by authors such as ] and ] are to be validated. Just thought I'd ask. ] (]) 22:38, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:@], what are the aspects of New Age religion that you don't think can be adequately covered in this article? What is missing, and what are the reliable sources not included? See ] for the concerns about branching the article. Also, academic sources and independent sources are preferred to those written by adherents. ] ] 22:46, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::Uh, no, that is not what I meant. I meant a separate article on the adherents of the New Age we call "Manx." It is not part of the article on the New Age movement -- into which in my honest opinion is just the popularity of the New Age religion and Eastern philosophy. The critics are just telling us ". . .not to fool around with the subject and focus on what we are most familiar with!". That means New Agers are just dabbling. You guys wrote quite an article, although I find it too lengthy to add more content in my opinion. ] (]) 21:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::You'll need to provide some sources. My search on "new age manx" only returns articles about the cat. ] ] 22:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::That's not the point. Even though the article on New Age covers the religion thereof, there is too much slang and jargon written in the space of the article. Please use the appropriate grammar in the English Misplaced Pages. The German, Spanish and Japanese Wikipedias speak of it as a religion -- and their sources are accurate. See if you can make it a Misplaced Pages policy to use appropriate grammar. ] (]) 22:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
⚫ |
:::::Could you point to some specific instances in the article? ] ] 22:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::When using the word '']'' or '']'' instead of '']''. The definition of ''milieu'' in a separate article contradicts the definition in the same article. Please correct the article by using correct grammar. Slang is often perceived as ] or ]. Some users cannot understand the words used, so I'll leave it up to you if a "no slang" policy is necessary. ] (]) 22:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::{{ping|Schazjmd}} this user appears to be trolling. Possibly a sockpuppet of {{user|Unitarian9999}} who was trolling in the immediately previous section. Their goal seems to be wasting other editor's time with apparently serious queries which are simply made up. There is no "New Age" "manx" - they are trolling you. ] (]) 23:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
{{hab}} |
|
|
|
|
|
== Suggestion == |
|
|
|
|
|
May I suggest something. See if you can add "literary genre consisting of" as in "'''New Age''' is a literary genre consisting of a range of religious and spiritual beliefs that emerged during the early 1970's." ] (]) 02:32, 4 November 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Really, not a good article == |
|
|
|
|
|
Firstly, the term "New Age" has been around since the late 19th century, and was "a movement" even back then, if largely a random collection of fads. |
|
|
|
|
|
Second: please CEASE referring to every random commercial writer as a "scholar." This is a trick of a poor writer who is attempting to manipulate the audience by pretending that every trashy pocket paperback is equivalent to scholarly texts. |
|
|
|
|
|
And, the term "New Age" appears 500+ times, further highlighting intentional manipulation. |
|
|
] (]) 08:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC) |
This article is not mentioning a very relevant principle for the New Agers, which is the Law of Attraction — the more you work on yourself, the better are the things you attract to yourself (this happens because of divine forces), and therefore it's your fault if things in your life are not going well (I don't think they like to view it that way, since they're more optimistic by seeing it as an opportunity to thrive out from the unpleasant situation they're initially in). One reference could be the book/film The Secret, by Rhonda Byme, from which other references can be derived aligned with the proper historical contextualization.
I'm sorry, I don't really have a big repertoire of references with me, but it's really not THAT hard to find this kind of material. Whenever you look on YouTube for binaural sounds subconscious work mediation for attracting better things to your life, you can see all those New Age concepts mixed with each other, you see holistic medicine of Chakras (a relevant concept in New Age, Reiki...), and money attraction through electromagnetic, radioactive, light and quantum forces, you see everything! That's a reality you see everywhere when you watch those YouTube videos, and whenever you put the word "quantum" before any random thing you search on the internet.
Many entrepreneurship courses currently use Law of Attraction for validating their success using New Age terms such as "energy", "vibration" and "frequency" so they can justify that other people can thrive in life just as they did, because the work is not just done by means of action, but most importantly through inner work, and this is how the Law of Attraction provides a phenomenon called Manifestation (the moment in which reality manifest what we've been working through our thoughts and we've been exercising with our emotional projections). Examples: Afiliagram, Tam Kaur, Lavendaire, Manifestelle, etc. On the internet, some will say you just need to think and look inwards, so you will be able to manifest anything. Others will say you need to contribute to your progress by actively acting on it (this idea is more common among entrepreneurs educators online). These entrepreneurs claim that since the feeling of shame is the lowest vibration you can see according to easy-finding online emotional energy graphs (yes, they don't use scientific-based Information), then it's necessary to make the reverse process by feeling more prideful about yourself (the emotion opposite to shame is pride). What I've been seeing lately on the internet is that the relationship between entrepreneurs who work as entrepreneurship educators through online courses and the New Age movement, both have been getting closer with each other.
So my suggestion is that researchers on the topic should get a closer look into this, and really see how those environments within such courses really operate, and how these irrational-based New Age movements have been used as an emotional pushing for common people who get into those courses to become entrepreneurs, and then make more courses telling people the same thing — that they have been working in themselves to elevate their energy to attract better things to themselves —, so that's a cycle. It's common both in USA, but also in Brazil, the country I'm from. In short, the New Age movement is closely related to the capitalist/financial relations in our digital age society. AndregustavoSoyJo (talk) 03:24, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Firstly, the term "New Age" has been around since the late 19th century, and was "a movement" even back then, if largely a random collection of fads.
Second: please CEASE referring to every random commercial writer as a "scholar." This is a trick of a poor writer who is attempting to manipulate the audience by pretending that every trashy pocket paperback is equivalent to scholarly texts.
level-4 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
.png){kind=small}
