| Revision as of 22:51, 13 March 2023 editM.Bitton (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users54,545 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2023: Edit request not done: It requires reliable sources (Edit Request Tool)← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 13:55, 27 December 2024 edit undoUltraodan (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers1,252 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2024 |
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| quote = As Adrianne LaFrance noted in the Atlantic, there is no self-evident unifying theory about why certain Misplaced Pages pages are higher quality than others. But with its combination of primary sources, motivated contributors, and shared vision, St. Patrick’s entry could be hinting at the magic formula. |
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| quote = As Adrianne LaFrance noted in the Atlantic, there is no self-evident unifying theory about why certain Misplaced Pages pages are higher quality than others. But with its combination of primary sources, motivated contributors, and shared vision, St. Patrick’s entry could be hinting at the magic formula. |
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{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1={{WikiProject Biography|living=no|class=B|listas=Patrick, Saint}} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|living=no|listas=Patrick, Saint|1= |
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{{WikiProject Biography}} |
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{{WikiProject Christianity|class=B|importance=Top|catholicism=yes|catholicism-importance=Top|anglicanism=yes|anglicanism-importance=Mid|saints=yes|saints-importance=Top|eastern-orthodoxy=yes|eastern orthodoxy-importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Christianity|importance=Top|catholicism=yes|catholicism-importance=Top|anglicanism=yes|anglicanism-importance=Mid|saints=yes|saints-importance=Top|eastern-orthodoxy=yes|eastern-orthodoxy-importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Religion|class=B|importance=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Ireland|class=B|importance=top|peer-review=|old-peer-review=}} |
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{{WikiProject Celts|class=B|importance=mid}}}} |
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{{WikiProject Ireland|importance=top|peer-review=|old-peer-review=}} |
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{{Vital article|level=5|topic=People|subpage=Religious figures|class=B}} |
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{{Top 25 Report|Mar 17 2013|Mar 16 2014|Mar 15 2015|Mar 13 2016|Mar 12 2017|Mar 14 2021}} |
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{{Top 25 Report|Mar 17 2013|Mar 16 2014|Mar 15 2015|Mar 13 2016|Mar 12 2017|Mar 14 2021}} |
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{{afd-merged-from|Battle for the Body of Saint Patrick|Battle for the Body of Saint Patrick|19 November 2017}} |
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== Lutheran saint? == |
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== St. Patrick's Birthplace, Place of Burial and Shrines == |
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There is absolutely no definitive, provable birthplace or place of burial for Patrick. Surely it makes sense to use the term "possibly" along with suggestions of various, debated places of origin? E.g. "Possibly Roman Britain", "Possibly Roman France". On the subject of major shrines, surely major Irish shrines should be listed? (Croagh Patrick, for example?) Thanks. |
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== Pronunciation of the name Pádraig in modern Irish == |
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The text asserts that Patric is "venerated as a saint in the ... Lutheran church...". Lutheran churches do not recognize "saints" or venerate them, even though Lutheran church buildings may be named after disciples, evangelists or archangels venerated by Catholics as "saints". ] (]) 14:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC) |
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I know this is a minor issue, but I just wanted to point out that, in modern Irish, the pronunciation of the name Pádraig does not have a /dˠ/. The usual IPA transcription for <á> is /ɑː/ on Misplaced Pages pages, although it does not represent Ulster Irish's /æː/. So, a transcription that would be correct and accepted is either /ˈpˠɑːɾˠɪc/ or /ˈpˠɑːɾˠɪɟ/. |
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== Patrick and the Second Coming == |
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== Quality of Content == |
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This is a truly dreadful article, mostly obsessed with Catholic trivia about shamrocks, bells, and visions. Patrick was actually a most important person in establishing and propagating literacy - a fundamental tool for propagating religious philosophy. Catholicism, for example. By ignoring the literacy part of Patrick's existence, this article becomes an astonishing and execrable waste of time! Is nobody here aware of this other side of Patrick's life, not to mention being able to include some relevant history? ] (]) 01:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC) |
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Professor Elva Johnston writes, "The idea that Ireland is one of the last lands, at the very gates of the known and knowable world, underlies the writings of St Patrick in the fifth century. It has been pointed out that Patrick thought Ireland lay at the edge of the earth.49 He believed that his actions would usher in the Last Days; the Gospel had been preached throughout the world and the stage was set for the second coming of Christ." <ref>{{cite book |last=Johnston |first=Elva |title= Literacy and Identity in Early Medieval Ireland |publisher=The Boydell Press, Woodbridge |date=2013 |page=35}}</ref> |
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:We don't really know any of this. You seem to want to replace one style of hagiographical myth-making with another. ] (]) 15:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::I'm again astonished that a would-be Patrick scholar would be so completely in the dark about Patrick's work as to suggest that it's simply more "hagiographical myth-making"! Here is just '''one''' example of an academic analysis of Patrick's substantial, even monumental, works from 807 A.D.: https://www.confessio.ie/manuscripts/dublin#1 <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:47, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:::I'm well aware of the ''Confessio'', but I don't think Patrick actually mentions teaching reading, let alone writing, anywhere in it, though he may well have done some of that. ] (]) 02:23, 18 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:I wholehearedly concur. There is a load of deliberate obfuscation here. What is the point of quoting an idiot from 130 years ago who was so arrogant as to assert that Patrick could not spell at all. You quote him as referring to "Bonaven Taburnia" when it is, of course, ''Bannavem Taburniae''. Yes... this does refer to the Roman Fort Banna on Hadrian's Wall (now usually called Birdoswald). |
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:The Bannaventa near Coventry is matched by another, now Banwen, in Wales and means "pig market". On the other hand Bannavem Taburniae means "The Boars' Inns" because when the legionaries left it became a hunting lodge complex. ] (]) 15:41, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Myth? == |
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I think this is a noteworthy part of Patrick's worldview and should be included in the article. Is this a common view in the literature? Even if it's contested it would still be useful to have the debate put in somewhere. ] (]) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC) ] (]) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC) |
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So, is St. Patrick a myth? ] (]) 14:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC) |
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:I do object to the inclusion of this though I definitely agree a debate on it first is called for. While sources definitively establish that Patrick believed Ireland lay at the end of the world, this wasn’t a position unique to him but was a widely accepted fact based off geography. Though it would certainly be noteworthy if Patrick also thought converting the gaels would bring about the end days, this is not substantiated by sources but purely the fringe position of an isolated few modern scholars. Whether it be true or not, I do not think we should include it under the present circumstances. ] (]) 10:52, 27 January 2023 (UTC) |
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::Hi ]. I see that you or someone e removed it, no issues there as there hasn't yet been a consensus on the topic yet. |
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::When you say that it's a fringe position do you mean that there are sources refuting it or just that it only appears a few places in the literature? I don't think Johnston herself is fringe in any way but certainly some of her theories/opinions could be. |
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::When I said "debate" in the post above I was actually referring to putting sources supporting both sides in the article for balance. I also deliberately put it in the "Modern Theories" section because that looks like the place for novel ideas about Patrick that haven't yet gained universal support. ] (]) 03:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:Err..... no, but the Catholic Church did so mess with eg his dates (for their own political reasons) as to make their story as worthless as a myth. There was a real person born c420 at Gretna who died in 493. ] (]) 15:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Proponents of a 460s obit == |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2024 == |
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Dumville wrote a book on Patrick dying in 493 in 1993. It was his original thesis, so I very much doubt he changed his mind in one year. ] (]) 23:27, 14 February 2023 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Saint Patrick|answered=yes}} |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2023 == |
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Add a hyperlink to 'Ireland' in the patronage that leads to the Ireland Misplaced Pages page. ] (]) 21:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{not done}}:<!-- Template:ESp --> already linked under died and should not be relinked as per ] ] (]) 13:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC) |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Saint Patrick|answered=yes}} |
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he is also gay ] (]) 22:44, 13 March 2023 (UTC) |
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he was gay |
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:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 22:51, 13 March 2023 (UTC) |
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The text asserts that Patric is "venerated as a saint in the ... Lutheran church...". Lutheran churches do not recognize "saints" or venerate them, even though Lutheran church buildings may be named after disciples, evangelists or archangels venerated by Catholics as "saints". Jarmo K. (talk) 14:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
This is a truly dreadful article, mostly obsessed with Catholic trivia about shamrocks, bells, and visions. Patrick was actually a most important person in establishing and propagating literacy - a fundamental tool for propagating religious philosophy. Catholicism, for example. By ignoring the literacy part of Patrick's existence, this article becomes an astonishing and execrable waste of time! Is nobody here aware of this other side of Patrick's life, not to mention being able to include some relevant history? Henrilebec (talk) 01:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Not done: already linked under died and should not be relinked as per MOS:REPEATLINK Ultraodan (talk) 13:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC)