| Revision as of 18:12, 29 November 2010 editJnestorius (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers77,707 edits →Requested move: I'm neutral on renaming the father; I'm opposed to the proposed rename of the son, though I query the current name← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 07:56, 30 December 2024 edit undoCewbot (talk | contribs)Bots7,639,080 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}}: 4 WikiProject templates. (Fix Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell with unknown parameters)Tag: Talk banner shell conversion |
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{{Talk header}} |
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{{WikiProject France|class=C|importance=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Biography|living=no|class=C|a&e-work-group=yes|listas=Dumas, Alexandre, Pere|a&e-priority=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|vital=yes|listas=Dumas, Alexandre, Pere|blp=no|1= |
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{{WikiProject Biography|a&e-work-group=yes|a&e-priority=Mid}} |
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{{NovelsWikiProject}} |
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{{WikiProject France|importance=Top}} |
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{{WikiProject Haiti|importance=Low}} |
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{{WikiProject Theatre|importance=mid}} |
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}} |
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{{Top 25 Report|Aug 23 2020 (14th)}} |
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|archive = Talk:Alexandre Dumas/Archive %(counter)d |
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== Thomas-Alexandre == |
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==Questions== |
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In the second paragraph, In 1862, she gave birth to a son, Thomas-Alexandre, but she died soon thereafter. This is probably a typo for 1762. Can anyone confirm this? |
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Both the introduction and the "Birth and family" section switch between talking about Alexandre Dumas and his father, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas. His family is significant, but their names are similar enough that it ought to be more clear which person is being discussed. ] (]) 07:02, 21 August 2023 (UTC) |
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::Anyone got a source for 'inspired more than 200 motion pictures'? He is listed as writer for about 120 on the IMDB. |
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] 16:18, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC) |
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== Information-- Archaeological Superintendent of Pompeii == |
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Dumas was appointed as Director of the Public Museums and Excavations of Italy and Archaeological Superintendent of Pompeii and Herculaneum<ref>https://www.nytimes.com/1860/10/09/archives/affairs-in-france-death-of-the-empress-sisterprogress-of-italian.html</ref><ref>https://academic.oup.com/book/2916/chapter-abstract/143562034?redirectedFrom=fulltext</ref>. This seems like somewhat significant information that would be beneficial to include. |
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I'm relatively new to wikipedia and unsure about this process, but what are others opinions on the matter? |
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Technically though, '''Alexandre Dumas, père''' was a ], and not a ], right? —] 14:22, Jun 22, 2004 (UTC) |
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--] (]) 11:30, 12 July 2024 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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:The mention of ''mulatto'' is of his father, General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas. —] 11:05 Aug 10, 2004 (PDT) |
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== Dispute: most widely read French author in the world ?== |
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The first paragraph states that Dumas is "the most widely read French author in the world". This statement may be false as ''']''' could be the "most widely...etc." Can anyone confirm? --] 15:34, 29 November 2005 (UTC) |
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:He IS the most widely read French author in the world. |
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::It MUST be so, because you say so. |
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::: Ach, grow up and do your research. Dumas is virtually unread today. Verne is the most widely read. |
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:::Who says Dumas is "virtually unread?" I work in a library, he is still more popular than Verne. Just a casual observation in one library...)(Verne has more books, so it would make sense if he was more widely read. |
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] 15:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC) |
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::::Verne did NOT have more books; and anyway, on that logic G.A. Henty (40+ books) is more widely read than the author of Gone With the Wind (1 book). |
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My 2 cents in this debate: Unfortunately I cannot access Amazon (com, ca, uk, fr, ...) for a quick look at the rankings. IMHO Dumas is more read by a wide margin. First the sheer book production. Dumas wrote hundreds of books. The 26 listed in this article is far from complete. I do believe I have read all of Verne’s fictional works. I have been reading new Dumas for decades still entering every used bookstore I see for discontinued Dumas books; still found some 2 weeks ago. Secondly by today’s standard Verne is more of an “early adolescent” level. I read Verne mostly between 8 and 16. It was great then, but was always disappointed by new books or re-reads after that. I read Dumas starting around 14 and never stopped, including re-reads in my mid20’s and 30’s still bringing great feelings. The way the author disserts on the human mind, social classes, injustices, philosophy, geography, politics are still pertinent in today’s globalized world filled with similar adventures. NOT to compare these 2 great authors that I love, but I do believe Dumas is read by 100's of millions of adults around the world, while Verne by 10's of millions of young adolescents. |
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::: The preceding comment is hereby seconded. Nobody reads Verne today, except in cartoon format. He's just not that good. Dumas is one of the most underestimated French authors, far better than Hugo. That's a subjective comment, in case nobody noticed, but in my opinion Dumas is one of the best historical fictionalists and satirists ever. //roger.duprat.copenhagen <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 15:12, 4 April 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== About General Dumas == |
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"Growing up, his mother's stories of his father's brave military deeds during the glory years of Napoleon I of France spawned Alexandre's vivid imagination for adventure and heroes. " |
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If General Dumas died in 1806, then he missed most of those "glory years" since the 1st Empire lasted from 1805 to 1815. I think we should rephrase this or verify the year of his death. |
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Also did his father die on the battlefield or due to battle wounds, or for something else? Just being curious. --] 04:33, 21 May 2006 (UTC) |
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:] was a General in the ] (1789-1799) and was "First Consul" in the ] (1799-1804). I guess the wording depends on what you consider "glory years." Not a very objective description, I agree. I've added an entry for ]. He died in 1806 from illnesses that he got while imprisoned in Italy. --] 00:46, 08 Aug, 2006 (PDT) |
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== His paternal grandmother was a black slave. == |
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Why are we not told of the race and livelyhood of his other grandparents? |
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:Because being 75% white was not such a big issue as being 25% black, that's why. It also showed that although his father was subject to racism as a child, he still managed to rise to the rank of General in the revolutionary army. Balzac was also often frowned upon for having black African blood. --] 04:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC) |
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Baaad typo: "Alexandre Dumas was born on July 24, 1602 ..." Well, I changed it to 1802, hope that is correct. |
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==title== |
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Why is this article called Alexandre Dumas, pere. Well I know why but wouldn't it make more sense to move it to '''Alexandre Dumas''' and have ] moved to ]. This is usually what is done for people who are related and have the same name. ]<sub>]</sub> 02:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC) |
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:Good question. The reason is because the author is generally known as "Alexandre Dumas, père," not just as Alexandre Dumas. His son became quite successful during his lifetime, so people during their lifetimes distinguished them with the appelations "père" and "fils." ] 19:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::I think it's a bit strong to say he's "generally" known as such. He is ''sometimes'' known as "Alexandre Dumas, père", but he is often known as just "Alexandre Dumas". English-language editions of his works, for example, usually put just "Alexandre Dumas" on the cover, rarely including the "père" qualifier. --] 07:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC) |
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:I think its best to move as well. The father is far more well-known currently than the son, so he should be simply ] while the son could reamin at 'fils' or at the proposed (1824-1895) title. ] 22:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC) |
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::It's a really old discussion, but I should like to reawaken it. Is it really common in English-language sources to have him called "... père"? I find it quite unlikely. Go to the bookstore, pick up Three Musketeers off the shelf, and tell me what it says on the cover. Look for any "About the Author" section in the book, and tell me what name it uses to refer to the author. I can practically guarantee it'll say "Alexandre Dumas", without the "père". ] (]) 00:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC) |
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:::And this is the English section of the wikipedia. There is a French section. ] (]) 19:05, 19 October 2009 (UTC) |
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==''Le Comte de Vermandois'', ''Le Château de Blois'', and ''Ravaillac''== |
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] added these unsubstantiated claims. I have removed them. If they need to be readded, please cite a reputable source. ] 23:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC) |
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**''It is rarely known that Dumas had planned a fourth novel to end the D'Artagna Romances : "Le Comte de Vermandois", the title character beign the legitimized son of Louis XIV and La Vallière. Aramis would have had a final appearance, aged 80, as a duke and ambassador of Spain... |
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**''It is rarely known that Dumas had planned two other novels to end the Valois Romances : the fourth novel would have been "Le Château de Blois", beginning with the murder of the Duc de Guise and ending with the murder of Henri III ; the fifth novel would have been "Ravaillac", beginning with the crowning of Henri IV and ending with his murder by the title character... |
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==Allissa Davis is really weird.== |
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I found this phrase inside. Is it just an error or a vandalism ? |
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: It was vandalism and I removed it. ] 15:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC) |
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== 1825 {{05th ]}} Alexandre Dumas ] {], ]} fights his 1st ]; his ]s fall down == |
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There are a variety of websites which say: |
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<blockquote> |
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1825 Alexandre Dumas pare fights his 1st duel; his pants fall down |
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</blockquote> |
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This was, as well, paraphrased by ]. |
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However, I think that this needs more validation. |
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Do you have a further source? |
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< http://google.com/search?q=%22alexandre%22+%22dumas%22+%22%22+%22%22++belt+duel+pants+1825++ >; |
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< http://google.com/search?q=%22alexandre%22+%22dumas%22+%22%22+%22%22++belt+duel+pant+1825++ >. |
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What are ], ], ]?? |
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&, that quote is, frequenly, next to: |
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<blockquote> |
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1822 ] proclaims ]ation to ] |
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</blockquote> |
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Do you have anything on that? |
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Thank You. |
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] | [[ [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] -]] 14:01, 6 January 2007 (UTC) |
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==Ghostwriters== |
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The word "ghostwriters" is very inexact when applied to Dumas. He employed assistants of various kinds as well as uncredited collaborators, who apparently created first drafts that he would rewrite. Most of his great novels were written with collaborators, but many earlier and later works appear to be his sole work. In some cases friends or acquaintances brought him their own manuscripts to revise and publish for their mutual benefit ("The Two Dianas" being one instance, which doesn't have much of the Dumas touch). To make matters more complicated, he also "presented" some works in French translations. English publishers subsequently published these stories under Dumas' name as his work ("Robin Hood") and even subsumed later pastiches, with which Dumas had nothing at all to do, mixing them into their sets of Dumas' work ("Countess of Monte Cristo," "Son of Porthos," etc.) |
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Might we rephrase as "assistants and uncredited collaborators"? <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 21:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Afro-Caucasian == |
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We have reference to support the inclusion of the category. I do not believe the reference is sufficient. What do others think? --] (]) 00:11, 3 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Requested move == |
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{{movereq|multiple=yes |
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|current1=Alexandre Dumas, père|new1=Alexandre Dumas|current2=Alexandre Dumas, fils|new2=Alexandre Dumas (dramatist)}} |
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] → ] — I have no idea how this article name has lasted so long, but it clearly goes against ]. In the English-speaking world he is most often known simply as Alexandre Dumas. ]] (]) 22:50, 22 November 2010 (UTC) |
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* ] → ] |
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*'''Support''' Far better known as "Alexandre Dumas" than "Alexandre Dumas, père". The . ] (]) 13:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC) |
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*Fine with the first move but what's wrong with ]? It seems more recognizable than ]. — <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;">]</span> 23:42, 28 November 2010 (UTC) |
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:Simply that it's not English. ]] (]) 07:59, 29 November 2010 (UTC) |
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I'm neutral on renaming the father; I'm opposed to the proposed rename of the son, though I query the current name: |
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* There is no doubt that the father's work is known to more English speakers than the son's. Whether this extends to the men themselves, and whether the degree of excess is sufficiently great to merit being the default target, is not so clearcut. But I can see no justification for "Basename" redirecting to "Basename (disambiguation)"; since this apperas to be a variant of that pattern, the move makes sense. |
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* Regarding the son, Misplaced Pages has multiple policies, which are sometimes in conflict with each other. In this case, ] conflicts with ]. The French word ''fils'' is commonly used for the son in English sources. If we are to render the names as fully as possible into English, then "Alexandre" should be changed to "Alexander". The disambiguator "dramatist" is inappropriate, since the father also wrote plays. |
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* Regarding the formatting: I'm not sure about the comma. When the forename is omitted, there is never a comma in "Dumas père" or "Dumas fils". When the full name is given, there is rarely a comma in French (e.g. ]); while a comma is less rare in English, I think "Alexandre Dumas ''fils''" is more common than "Alexandre Dumas, fils". ]<sup>(])</sup> 18:12, 29 November 2010 (UTC) |
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]<sup>(])</sup> 18:12, 29 November 2010 (UTC) |
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Both the introduction and the "Birth and family" section switch between talking about Alexandre Dumas and his father, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas. His family is significant, but their names are similar enough that it ought to be more clear which person is being discussed. 2600:1700:7F10:7270:AD91:5D91:14BB:462B (talk) 07:02, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
Dumas was appointed as Director of the Public Museums and Excavations of Italy and Archaeological Superintendent of Pompeii and Herculaneum. This seems like somewhat significant information that would be beneficial to include.
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
