Revision as of 18:15, 4 September 2022 editJack Upland (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users31,879 edits →Please remove FRSA postnominal← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 17:12, 30 December 2024 edit undoA. Randomdude0000 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users15,225 edits Restored revision 1263850330 by Yue (talk): WP:NOTFORUM/WP:TALKTags: Twinkle Undo |
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{{Talk header|search=no|archive_age=50|archive_bot=Lowercase sigmabot III}} |
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{{notice|{{large|'''This page is about Marx, not ].'''}}}} |
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{{Vital article|level=3|link=Misplaced Pages:Vital articles|anchor=Philosophers and social scientists (19 articles)|topic=People|class=GA}} |
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== Postage stamp refs == |
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A new editor, ], added a section in July about commemorative stamps. The user then posted bare urls directly into the Refs section of the article. I have removed these and placed them here, so that they can eventually be properly included. |
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It appears from their talk page that this editor has made similar edits to many other articles in their brief career here, and retired from Misplaced Pages after their behaviour was raised at . |
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279. colnect.com/en/stamps/stamp/178779-Karl_Marx_1818-1883_philosopher-Karl_Marx-Hungary. Catalog codes: Michel HU 1305C, Stamp Number HU 1042, Yvert et Tellier HU 1079A. |
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280. colnect.com/en/stamps/stamp/176915-Karl_Marx_1818-1893_politician-Personalities-Hungary. Catalog codes: Michel HU 2068A, Stamp Number HU 1583, Yvert et Tellier HU 1680, AFA number HU 2024. |
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281. colnect.com/en/stamps/list/country/8663-India/item_name/karl+Marx. Catalog codes: Mi:IN 950, Sn:IN 1017, Yt:IN 761, Sg:IN 1084. |
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282. colnect.com/en/stamps/list/country/2650-Russia/year/2018/item_name/karl+Marx. Catalog codes: Col:RU 2018-18 and Col:RU 2018-18KB (Mini-sheet). |
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283. colnect.com/en/stamps/list/country/8150-Vietnam/year/1983/item_name/karl+Marx. Catalog codes: Mi:VN 1367, Sn:VN 1317, Yt:VN 462 and Catalog codes: Mi:VN 1368, Yt:VN 463. |
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284. colnect.com/en/stamps/list/country/2652-Soviet_Union_USSR/year/1933/item_name/karl+Marx. Catalog codes: |
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Mi:SU 424X-26X, Sn:SU 480-82, Yt:SU 473-75, Sg:SU 603-05, AFA:SU 431-33. |
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== House in Trier, Germany, where Marx spent his childhood and youth == |
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== House in Trier, Germany, where Marx spent his childhood and youth == |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2024 == |
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==Unlock!== |
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Editors of Misplaced Pages unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains! <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:36, 3 April 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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{{edit semi-protected|Karl Marx|answered=yes}} |
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== Marx and Racism == |
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Moses Mordecai Levi, otherwise known as Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818-March 14, 1883) was a German-Jewish philosopher, economist, historian, revolutionary, and journalist from Trier, Germany. ] (]) 12:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> <br />— ]<sup></nowiki>]]</nowiki>]]</sup> ⋮ 13:43, 19 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:I am not finding any reliable sources on this. The only ones I found were articles using his Jewish identity to attack him. Here is one very biased article that mentions Moses mordecai Levi https://www.news24.com/news24/karl-marx-and-his-hateful-dream-of-atheism-20120913 |
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:There is also a random reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/karlmarx/comments/riufhh/was_karl_marx_his_birth_name/ |
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:The only potentially legitimate source I found is where it says his paternal grandfather's name was Mordechai Levi |
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:All the other sources are baseless conspiracy theories connecting him to the Rothschilds. |
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:Please present reliable sources before starting a topic on talk pages. ] (]) 21:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Critiques of Marx as a person. == |
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Recently there have been several articles citing Marx (perhaps out of context) demonstrating racism. It would be a service to Misplaced Pages readers if a section of this article could be created to briefly describe these quotes and also to describe the issues with enough clarity that members of the public could see for themselves what the issues are. Thanks!] (]) 03:36, 1 May 2022 (UTC) |
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*Feel free to create such sections citing reliable sources! ] (]) 12:55, 3 June 2022 (UTC) |
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::...reliable ones being those that actually cite Marx in context, with due acknowledgement of the historical and cultural context he lived and worked in. Cherry-picking quotes for effect is good clickbait, but a poor way to write an encyclopaedia. ] (]) 13:16, 3 June 2022 (UTC) |
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:::Hi, I do feel some sympathy for Contributor 119, as I think the post raises a question principle: mythbusting. Put as a question: Is it the job of an article to comment on and debunk misinformation? If so, to what extent or degree? |
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:::I had a look around at various content and style guides, but in vain, as only "Fringe Theories" seemed - indirectly - relevant, without mentioning "mythbusting" by name, however. This could be due to my lack of search skills. |
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:::Whatever the case, a good number of Wiki articles are devoted to dispelling misinformation, e.g. the "denial" articles (Climate change, Holocaust etc.). To me, at least, it seems legit to debunk. |
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:::As I read the OP, The They is not calling for a section on "Marx and racism", but a section of "debunking the myth that Marx was racist". As an example, here is a link to an article of this very year: |
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:::https://jacobin.com/2022/05/marx-race-antisemitism-history-andrew-sullivan-enlightenment . No idea if the Jacobin is a RS or not, but again, it's just an example that the myth, and the debunk, is out there. |
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:::A justification for a debunk would IMO be twofold: Such a myth, circulating out there, is a legitimate area of interest as a social phenomenon, and it is also a recurring theme here at this article TP, such that a comment on it within the article might, in the best of worlds, save editors some typing. |
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:::The argument against would be lack of notability, that the phenomenon is not widespread enough to merit mention. How that is measured is beyond me, so I'll abstain from having an opinion on it. |
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:::Ceterum censeo that the article should link to "Communism" _ =o) T ] (]) 01:03, 16 June 2022 (UTC) |
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Here is a reputable source discussing the issue : https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13569317.2019.1548094 |
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Quoting from the article : "This article argues that Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels’s theory of history contained racist components. In Marx and Engels’s understanding, racial disparities emerged under the influence of shared natural and social conditions hardening into heredity and of the mixing of blood. They racialized skin-colour groups, ethnicities, nations and social classes, while endowing them with innate superior and inferior character traits." <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:29, 17 July 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2022 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Karl Marx|answered=yes}} |
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I request that the fact the Karl Marx and Engles were both racist should be added. I have provided a link to the personal letters between Marx and Engles where you can clearly see they use of racist words. Here is a quote from Marx "The Jewish nigger Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation." |
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Little to nothing about the personal character or contradictions of Marx as a human being. Seems one sided. Not looking for character assassination but a more balanced view. ] (]) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC) |
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https://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/marx/works/1862/letters/62_07_30a.htm ] (]) 18:48, 25 August 2022 (UTC) |
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:Any suggestions on what to add? Please elaborate a bit more ] (]) 21:09, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:Yes, like more or less all of his contemporaries, Marx used racist language - shocking by the standards of our time. He lived in a place and time when this was the norm. That is indisputable. What Misplaced Pages needs though is discussion of this in secondary reliable sources, placing it in context, rather than primary-sourced quotations. ] (]) 19:00, 25 August 2022 (UTC) |
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== Did Marx's parents convert to escape persecution, as many Jews did, or did they sincerely practice Christianity? == |
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::By the way, Marx had a Jewish background and was nicknamed "Moor".--] (]) 19:32, 25 August 2022 (UTC) |
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Asking here because this is not mentioned at all in the article and I'm wondering if it's applicable ] (]) 12:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Please remove FRSA postnominal == |
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:Marx's family were not very religious Jews. After they converted, they were not very religious Christians either. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 12:15, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
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The FRSA postnominal should be removed from the lede and infobox. Marx could not have had this postnominal in his lifetime as the organisation only got the Royal title in 1908. (]). Moreover, FRSA is not an honour but represents a membership that is open to a wide range of people by paying a subscription. Related discussion ]. ] (]) 13:31, 4 September 2022 (UTC) |
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:I agree. Also, he is not known for being a member of the society, and it gives a false impression of who he was (e.g., that he was a Royalist).--] (]) 15:24, 4 September 2022 (UTC) |
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:Heinrich Michael in Karl Marx and the Birth of Modern Society goes in detail why Heinrich Marx converted in chapter Karl's Marx Parents. Basically Heinrich converted so he could keep he's job as a lawyer. ] (]) 18:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::Removed.--] (]) 18:15, 4 September 2022 (UTC) |
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Location of the house
The former home of Karl Marx in Simeonstraße 8 (then Simeongasse 1040) looks rather unremarkable at the beginning of Trier's shopping promenade close to the famous Porta Nigra. Only a few minutes walk leads visitors to the bronze statue of Karl Marx by Wu Weishan – a present from the People's Republic of China to Trier.
Moses Mordecai Levi, otherwise known as Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818-March 14, 1883) was a German-Jewish philosopher, economist, historian, revolutionary, and journalist from Trier, Germany. Prism Steno Book (talk) 12:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Little to nothing about the personal character or contradictions of Marx as a human being. Seems one sided. Not looking for character assassination but a more balanced view. Redonefifty (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)