Revision as of 06:26, 21 February 2024 editRemsense (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Template editors61,150 edits →Ruling class was Aristocracy: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 17:12, 30 December 2024 edit undoA. Randomdude0000 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users15,219 edits Restored revision 1263850330 by Yue (talk): WP:NOTFORUM/WP:TALKTags: Twinkle Undo |
(44 intermediate revisions by 25 users not shown) |
Line 1: |
Line 1: |
|
{{Talk header|search=no|archive_age=50|archive_bot=Lowercase sigmabot III}} |
|
{{Talk header|search=no}} |
|
{{notice|{{large|'''This page is about Marx, not ].'''}}}} |
|
{{notice|{{large|'''This page is about Marx, not ].'''}}}} |
|
{{Controversial}} |
|
{{Controversial}} |
Line 36: |
Line 36: |
|
|otd1date=2019-03-14|otd1oldid=887614006 |
|
|otd1date=2019-03-14|otd1oldid=887614006 |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=GA|vital=yes|living=no|listas=Marx, Karl|1= |
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=GA|collapsed=yes|vital=yes|living=no|listas=Marx, Karl|1= |
|
{{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=top|s&a-work-group=yes|s&a-priority=top|core=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=top|s&a-work-group=yes|s&a-priority=top|core=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Politics|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Politics|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Philosophy|continental=yes|modern=yes|philosopher=yes|importance=high|political=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Philosophy|continental=yes|modern=yes|philosopher=yes|importance=high|political=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Sociology|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Sociology|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Germany|b1<!-- Referencing and citations. -->=yes |
|
{{WikiProject Germany|importance=Top|Prussia=yes}} |
|
|b2<!-- Coverage and accuracy. -->=yes |
|
|
|b3<!-- Structure. -->=yes |
|
|
|b4<!-- Grammar and style. -->=yes |
|
|
|b5<!-- Supporting materials. -->=yes |
|
|
|importance=Top|Prussia=yes}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Socialism|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Socialism|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Economics|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Economics|importance=High}} |
Line 52: |
Line 47: |
|
{{WikiProject Atheism|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Atheism|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Business|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Business|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Human rights|importance=mid}} |
|
{{WikiProject Human rights|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Religion|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Religion|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Journalism|importance=Low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Journalism|importance=Low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Alternative Views|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Alternative views|importance=Top}} |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{British-English}} |
|
{{British-English}} |
Line 67: |
Line 62: |
|
|archive=Talk:Karl Marx/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|archive=Talk:Karl Marx/Archive %(counter)d |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
|
|
|
== Postage stamp refs == |
|
|
|
|
|
A new editor, ], added a section in July about commemorative stamps. The user then posted bare urls directly into the Refs section of the article. I have removed these and placed them here, so that they can eventually be properly included. |
|
|
|
|
|
It appears from their talk page that this editor has made similar edits to many other articles in their brief career here, and retired from Misplaced Pages after their behaviour was raised at . |
|
|
|
|
|
279. colnect.com/en/stamps/stamp/178779-Karl_Marx_1818-1883_philosopher-Karl_Marx-Hungary. Catalog codes: Michel HU 1305C, Stamp Number HU 1042, Yvert et Tellier HU 1079A. |
|
|
280. colnect.com/en/stamps/stamp/176915-Karl_Marx_1818-1893_politician-Personalities-Hungary. Catalog codes: Michel HU 2068A, Stamp Number HU 1583, Yvert et Tellier HU 1680, AFA number HU 2024. |
|
|
281. colnect.com/en/stamps/list/country/8663-India/item_name/karl+Marx. Catalog codes: Mi:IN 950, Sn:IN 1017, Yt:IN 761, Sg:IN 1084. |
|
|
282. colnect.com/en/stamps/list/country/2650-Russia/year/2018/item_name/karl+Marx. Catalog codes: Col:RU 2018-18 and Col:RU 2018-18KB (Mini-sheet). |
|
|
283. colnect.com/en/stamps/list/country/8150-Vietnam/year/1983/item_name/karl+Marx. Catalog codes: Mi:VN 1367, Sn:VN 1317, Yt:VN 462 and Catalog codes: Mi:VN 1368, Yt:VN 463. |
|
|
284. colnect.com/en/stamps/list/country/2652-Soviet_Union_USSR/year/1933/item_name/karl+Marx. Catalog codes: |
|
|
Mi:SU 424X-26X, Sn:SU 480-82, Yt:SU 473-75, Sg:SU 603-05, AFA:SU 431-33. <!-- Template:uw-tpv1 --> <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 22:12, 20 October 2018 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== House in Trier, Germany, where Marx spent his childhood and youth == |
|
== House in Trier, Germany, where Marx spent his childhood and youth == |
Line 94: |
Line 75: |
|
{{reflist-talk}} |
|
{{reflist-talk}} |
|
|
|
|
|
⚫ |
== Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2024 == |
|
== Weight of his beliefs == |
|
|
|
|
|
⚫ |
{{edit semi-protected|Karl Marx|answered=yes}} |
|
|
Moses Mordecai Levi, otherwise known as Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818-March 14, 1883) was a German-Jewish philosopher, economist, historian, revolutionary, and journalist from Trier, Germany. ] (]) 12:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> <br />— ]<sup></nowiki>]]</nowiki>]]</sup> ⋮ 13:43, 19 March 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:I am not finding any reliable sources on this. The only ones I found were articles using his Jewish identity to attack him. Here is one very biased article that mentions Moses mordecai Levi https://www.news24.com/news24/karl-marx-and-his-hateful-dream-of-atheism-20120913 |
|
|
:There is also a random reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/karlmarx/comments/riufhh/was_karl_marx_his_birth_name/ |
|
|
:The only potentially legitimate source I found is where it says his paternal grandfather's name was Mordechai Levi |
|
|
:All the other sources are baseless conspiracy theories connecting him to the Rothschilds. |
|
|
:Please present reliable sources before starting a topic on talk pages. ] (]) 21:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Critiques of Marx as a person. == |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Little to nothing about the personal character or contradictions of Marx as a human being. Seems one sided. Not looking for character assassination but a more balanced view. ] (]) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC) |
|
The balance given in the "Philosophy and social thought" section is good, but there's so much unnecessary fluff in "International relations". Quotes, and paragraph-long quotes at that, are rarely necessary and nearly the entire section consists of just quotes. The whole section appears to be completely disjointed and unnecessarily long and should be radically shortened. It also doesn't provide the weight secondary sources give to Marx's critiques and analyses. ~ ] (] • ]) 00:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
:Any suggestions on what to add? Please elaborate a bit more ] (]) 21:09, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
⚫ |
== Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2023 == |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Did Marx's parents convert to escape persecution, as many Jews did, or did they sincerely practice Christianity? == |
⚫ |
{{Edit semi-protected|Karl Marx|answered=yes}} |
|
|
] (]) 14:22, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 16:09, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Asking here because this is not mentioned at all in the article and I'm wondering if it's applicable ] (]) 12:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
|
== Ruling class was Aristocracy == |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
:Marx's family were not very religious Jews. After they converted, they were not very religious Christians either. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 12:15, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
|
Bourgeois as per Marx himself were the Middle Class or people who had risen out of the Proletariat to management and supervisory roles during the Industrial Revolution. Bourgeois being described as Ruling class without any Relevant attribution is misleading ] (]) 07:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:Aristocracy was the ruling class under feudalism. Under emerging capitalism the ruling class was the bourgeoisie.--] (]) 04:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
:Heinrich Michael in Karl Marx and the Birth of Modern Society goes in detail why Heinrich Marx converted in chapter Karl's Marx Parents. Basically Heinrich converted so he could keep he's job as a lawyer. ] (]) 18:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC) |
|
::What is the source of this assertion? Under Capitalism, the Ruling class is either democratic or aristrocratic or a combination of both like we see in UK. The ruling class would be extended Political officers like Ministers and Bureaucrats as well. On the other hand, bourgeoisie in the context of Marx era seems to refer to newly rich people who rose through education, hard work and skill development and disrupted the established hierarchy to gain status equal to that of Marx who himself came from a rich family and grew up in a 10 bedroom house in Austria. Disdain for bourgeoisie seems to be more targeted a nouveau riche who were seen with disdain by Old money families of Europe like that of Marx himself. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:39, 21 February 2024 (UTC)</small> |
|
|
:::Would '''' be an okay source for what Marx thought? |
|
|
:::{{talk quote|The modern bourgeois society that has sprouted from the ruins of feudal society has not done away with class antagonisms. It has but established new classes, new conditions of oppression, new forms of struggle in place of the old ones.}} |
|
|
:::{{talk quote|We see then: the means of production and of exchange, on whose foundation the bourgeoisie built itself up, were generated in feudal society. At a certain stage in the development of these means of production and of exchange, the conditions under which feudal society produced and exchanged, the feudal organisation of agriculture and manufacturing industry, in one word, the feudal relations of property became no longer compatible with the already developed productive forces; they became so many fetters. They had to be burst asunder; they were burst asunder. {{hl|Into their place stepped free competition, accompanied by a social and political constitution adapted in it, and the economic and political sway of the bourgeois class.}}}} |
|
|
:::{{talk quote|Hitherto, every form of society has been based, as we have already seen, on the antagonism of oppressing and oppressed classes. But in order to oppress a class, certain conditions must be assured to it under which it can, at least, continue its slavish existence. The serf, in the period of serfdom, raised himself to membership in the commune, {{hl|just as the petty bourgeois, under the yoke of the feudal absolutism, managed to develop into a bourgeois}}. The modern labourer, on the contrary, instead of rising with the process of industry, sinks deeper and deeper below the conditions of existence of his own class. He becomes a pauper, and pauperism develops more rapidly than population and wealth. And here {{hl|it becomes evident, that the bourgeoisie is unfit any longer to be the ruling class in society, and to impose its conditions of existence upon society}} as an over-riding law. It is unfit to rule because it is incompetent to assure an existence to its slave within his slavery, because it cannot help letting him sink into such a state, that it has to feed him, instead of being fed by him. {{hl|Society can no longer live under this bourgeoisie}}, in other words, its existence is no longer compatible with society.}} |
|
|
:::You may have different or evolved analyses, but I assume this suffices to establish what Marx thought as regards your question. ]] 06:26, 21 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
Location of the house
The former home of Karl Marx in Simeonstraße 8 (then Simeongasse 1040) looks rather unremarkable at the beginning of Trier's shopping promenade close to the famous Porta Nigra. Only a few minutes walk leads visitors to the bronze statue of Karl Marx by Wu Weishan – a present from the People's Republic of China to Trier.
Moses Mordecai Levi, otherwise known as Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818-March 14, 1883) was a German-Jewish philosopher, economist, historian, revolutionary, and journalist from Trier, Germany. Prism Steno Book (talk) 12:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Little to nothing about the personal character or contradictions of Marx as a human being. Seems one sided. Not looking for character assassination but a more balanced view. Redonefifty (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)