| Revision as of 10:14, 30 March 2004 editJay (talk | contribs)Administrators36,597 edits question moved back from archive← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 17:12, 30 December 2024 edit undoA. Randomdude0000 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users15,225 edits Restored revision 1263850330 by Yue (talk): WP:NOTFORUM/WP:TALKTags: Twinkle Undo |
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==Archives== |
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{{notice|{{large|'''This page is about Marx, not ].'''}}}} |
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{{Article history |
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|action1date=January 31, 2005 |
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==question for Marx scholars == |
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''(question asked on ] by 212.9.13.102 (02:07, 20 Mar 2004))'' |
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would appreciate help to track down a comment Marx made in Capital where he said there comes a point beyond which the further politizisation of money becomes redundant. could really use this for an essay, but need to be able to reference it. can you pin-point it in Capital? |
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==Marx and Anti-Semitism== |
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|action5date=2 May 2011 |
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Anything on Marx and Anti-Semitism should also make reference to the arguments made in |
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:As I read it, the article argues against labeling Marx an anti-Semite. I think the key question is, has any serious historian been able to sustain the charge of anti-Semitism? If not, I don't know that it is even worth discussing in the article. If you disagree, AH, and want to include a precis of Draper and McLellan's points, I certainly won't object, ] |
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:: I had added something earlier, but it was removed. I was going to add this at a later date when I had some time but I have been distracted. To see more on charges of Marx's anti-semitsm read Marx's "The Jewish Quesiton". http://csf.colorado.edu/psn/marx/Archive/1844-JQ/ ] 01:52, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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|topic=World history |
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:I took it out, and explained why -- what you added were quotes out of context, with a misleading interpretation -- not at all what I say above, which is an invitation to include a resme of scholarly review on the matter. Your link simply goes to Marx's essays on the Jewish question -- which I have studied. It is a deconstruction of the Western discourse on "emancipation" and it is not anti-Semitic. ] |
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== House in Trier, Germany, where Marx spent his childhood and youth == |
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], the father of Karl Marx, bought the small mansard roof building in ]´s Simeonstrasse in 1819 <ref>{{cite book |last1=Longuet |first1=Robert-Jean |title=Karl Marx mein Urgroßvater |date=1977 |location=Berlin |page=16}}</ref> when Karl was only one year old. The later socialist grew up here with his parents and five siblings and moved out aged 17 after his graduation from secondary school (Gymnasium). Yet as a grown up man, he returned to Trier several times to visit his relatives. |
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Well, some might argue otherwise. I would also counter that the quotes were not out of contex considering the tone of the article, plus he had also written about the Jewery in several other pieces. Marx also had some shitty things to say about the Slavs. ] 02:10, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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Compared to today, little has changed in the historical city center of Trier: The main characteristics of the old town around the market place have been preserved and looked more or less the same back in the days when Karl Marx lived there <ref>{{cite book |last1=Neffe |first1=Jürgen |title=Marx der Unvollendete |date=2017 |publisher=Bertelsmann |isbn=ISBN-13 978-3570102732 |page=41}}</ref>. In particular the neighbourhood of the house to the Trier's most famous landmark, the Roman city gate ], is still impressive. In most parts unchanged to this day, it is likely that Karl Marx took the very same route to school every day that tourists can walk today <ref>{{cite book |last1=Monz |first1=Heinz |date=1964 |location=Trier |page=164}}</ref>. |
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The house in Simeonstraße had a lasting impact on Karl Marx, especially since he had been educated here in home schooling until the age of 12 <ref>{{cite book |last1=Baumeister |first1=Jens |title=Wie der Wein Karl Marx zum Kommunisten machte: Ein Kommunist als Streiter für die Moselwinzer |date=2017 |location=Trier |isbn=ISBN 978-3000564710 |page=32}}</ref>. |
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As an adult, Karl Marx returned to live with his family in this house during his visits several times. For example in 1841 after his doctoral studies in Berlin, Marx travelled back to Trier. The main reason for his return home was to be close to his long-term fiancée ]. Also in the following year, 1842, Karl Marx spent some months in the house in Simeonstraße 8 (then Simeongasse 1040) in order to take care of family matters <ref>{{cite book |last1=Longuet |first1=Robert-Jean |title=Karl Marx mein Urgroßvater |date=1977 |location=Berlin |page=52}}</ref>. |
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Location of the house |
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Marx ''was'' a Jew... ] 02:10, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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The former home of Karl Marx in Simeonstraße 8 (then Simeongasse 1040) looks rather unremarkable at the beginning of Trier's shopping promenade close to the famous Porta Nigra. Only a few minutes walk leads visitors to the bronze statue of Karl Marx by ] – a present from the People's Republic of China to Trier. |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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Oh my God, I had absolutely no idea that Marx was a jew, with that Irish soundin name en all!! Well then, I suppose there is ''no way'' he could be anti-semetic then could he. ] 02:41, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2024 == |
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Well, the burden of proof should be higher to "prove" that a Jew is an anti-semite, shouldn't it? And "Marx" is certainly not an especially jewish name - it is a German name. ] was a Catholic politician in Weimar Germany, for instance. ] 02:43, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Karl Marx|answered=yes}} |
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Hmmm...... |
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Moses Mordecai Levi, otherwise known as Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818-March 14, 1883) was a German-Jewish philosopher, economist, historian, revolutionary, and journalist from Trier, Germany. ] (]) 12:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> <br />— ]<sup></nowiki>]]</nowiki>]]</sup> ⋮ 13:43, 19 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:I am not finding any reliable sources on this. The only ones I found were articles using his Jewish identity to attack him. Here is one very biased article that mentions Moses mordecai Levi https://www.news24.com/news24/karl-marx-and-his-hateful-dream-of-atheism-20120913 |
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:There is also a random reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/karlmarx/comments/riufhh/was_karl_marx_his_birth_name/ |
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:The only potentially legitimate source I found is where it says his paternal grandfather's name was Mordechai Levi |
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:All the other sources are baseless conspiracy theories connecting him to the Rothschilds. |
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:Please present reliable sources before starting a topic on talk pages. ] (]) 21:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Critiques of Marx as a person. == |
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''What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.'' |
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Little to nothing about the personal character or contradictions of Marx as a human being. Seems one sided. Not looking for character assassination but a more balanced view. ] (]) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC) |
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But after all, he is Jewish and after all, there is no way that a Jew could be anti-semetic ......... ] , ], ]] 02:50, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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:Any suggestions on what to add? Please elaborate a bit more ] (]) 21:09, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Did Marx's parents convert to escape persecution, as many Jews did, or did they sincerely practice Christianity? == |
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Hmmmm....... am I on to a trend here? Are all anti-semeitc Jews also Marxists? |
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Asking here because this is not mentioned at all in the article and I'm wondering if it's applicable ] (]) 12:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
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Hmmmm....... interesting ............ very interesting ] 02:52, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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:Marx's family were not very religious Jews. After they converted, they were not very religious Christians either. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 12:15, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:Heinrich Michael in Karl Marx and the Birth of Modern Society goes in detail why Heinrich Marx converted in chapter Karl's Marx Parents. Basically Heinrich converted so he could keep he's job as a lawyer. ] (]) 18:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC) |
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Again, you're taking stuff out of context. Marx was certainly opposed to the Jewish ''religion'' because he was opposed to ''all'' religion. But beyond this, I think this is a ridiculous argument. As to Finkelstein and Chomsky, I think it's arguable that they are anti-semites, but, again, one should have pretty solid backing to make such a claim. I'm fairly certain we havan't reached that level with Marx. (BTW, my Irish-sounding name does hide the fact that I'm Jewish), ] 02:53, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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Like when Marx called Ferdinand Lassalle a "Juden Itzig , in a personal letter he wrote to Engles. No anti-semitism here. Marxist have been trying to explain that little diddy for years. After all, if I called someon a Jew Nigger, leftists would be falling over each other to creatively interprite my remarks to let me off the hook. ] 03:01, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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:Perhaps he meant it disparagingly in a general sense without intending a specifically anti-Semetic connotation, in a way analogous to how modern gangsta rappers will describe their enemies as "no-good niggers" or some such. Does this mean that black gangsta rappers are themselves all a bunch of anti-black racists because they call people 'nigger' in a bad way? Hardly. It's important not to read too much into things. ] 09:04, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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Location of the house
The former home of Karl Marx in Simeonstraße 8 (then Simeongasse 1040) looks rather unremarkable at the beginning of Trier's shopping promenade close to the famous Porta Nigra. Only a few minutes walk leads visitors to the bronze statue of Karl Marx by Wu Weishan – a present from the People's Republic of China to Trier.
Moses Mordecai Levi, otherwise known as Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818-March 14, 1883) was a German-Jewish philosopher, economist, historian, revolutionary, and journalist from Trier, Germany. Prism Steno Book (talk) 12:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Little to nothing about the personal character or contradictions of Marx as a human being. Seems one sided. Not looking for character assassination but a more balanced view. Redonefifty (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
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Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.