| Revision as of 00:55, 1 December 2024 view sourceJohnuniq (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators86,659 edits →Please un-protect ANI now and in general: WMF← Previous edit | Revision as of 01:14, 3 January 2025 view source ClueBot III (talk | contribs)Bots1,378,906 editsm Archiving 1 discussion to Misplaced Pages talk:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive 17. (BOT)Next edit → | ||
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== Editable archives == | ||
| It seems that the ANI archive pages (e.g. ]) have section edit links. This is not normal on archive pages: is it something special to ANI, or a mistake somewhere? --] 🌹 (]) 19:00, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Can I open a case at ANI based on ] regarding reviewers not fulfilling their duties and pretending to be busy? As a result, my nominations were closed due to timeout without any fault of my own. These closed cases have undermined my efforts and hard work. I'm asking here because I'm not sure if my case is eligible for the ANI process. Thanks ] (]) 05:40, 14 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Maybe {{tl|Administrators' noticeboard navbox all}} can be taught to emit the flag to inhibit that, iff transcluded onto a "subpage" (or "a subpage containing the string 'archive'")? ] (]) 20:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::That wasn't too hard. Which means I probably broke something as a side-effect. Trouts of various sizes welcome as appropriate. ] (]) 16:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Well, it's suppressed the edit links, so {{ty}} for that. --] 🌹 (]) 21:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Broken code in blue "Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents" box == | |||
| :No. We are all volunteers here, which means that if people are busy, then they're busy. We don't submit timesheets for our work on Misplaced Pages, and no editor is ever required to make an edit if they don't want to. ] ]] 14:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::So why Dyk is stand for? ] (]) 20:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::If you are only editing to get recognition at DYK then you are not here to build an encyclopedia. DYK is incidental to our work here: it is not the main point of it. ] (]) 20:55, 14 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :To answer your question, yes, you ''could'' open a thread asking for there to be consequnces for other users not doing what you want them to do, but the most likely result of such a thread would be a ] for you, so you probably shouldn't do that. ] ] 04:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :No, absolutely not. This is absurd. Misplaced Pages is a volunteer project. We can stop editors from breaking policies, but we can't actively ''make'' any editors actively do any tasks. What would intervention even do? Do you think warnings, blocks or topic bans are going to help ''increase'' DYK participation? ] ] 12:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :: Not to mention that there appeared to be ]. ] 15:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::I think generally more difficult cases get passed over, particularly with the reciprocal nature of DYK. People are naturally going to want to approve an easy one. ] (]) 18:57, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| At the bottom of it: | |||
| == Are ANI notices necessary when requesting to revoke TPA? == | |||
| <small>Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are ] automatically by ]. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the ] subpage.</small> | |||
| A few times I've come to ANI to request TPA be revoked for blocked users. I have served such users with ANI notices because the instructions say to do so. But I am wondering if that is necessary. First since the user cannot comment at ANI, and second because I only do so in cases of obvious promotion, vandalism, or other bad-faith edits. ] (]) 03:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| |- | class="plainlinks" style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background: var(--color-inverted, #fff); text-align: center; font-size: 125%;" | '''''' | |||
| :This can be useful for talk page watchers (and sometimes if an admin watches the talk page, and the request is reasonable, they can revoke a TPA), but of course the general efficiency is low, as of pretty much everything which happens on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 10:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Pretty sure the "|- | class= " etc. bit isn't supposed to be there. -] <sub>]</sub> 04:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Speedy archive AN(I) topics about LTA MAB? == | |||
| :{{ping|The Bushranger}} I think I fixed it. ] (]) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == "]" listed at ] == | |||
| I think we should archive topics discussing the LTA MidAtlanticBaby very early when we are done talking about them. Maybe a 1 day (or 1.5 day) archival time would suit? | |||
| ] | |||
| The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span> to the page ] has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 19#Misplaced Pages:REPORT}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 10:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Questions about TPA and UTRS notification following TPA removal == | |||
| At the moment, those threads are nothing but a magnet for that LTA, as it seems the discussions have run their course. Perhaps it would hurt a lot less to archive early than to block off all IP and new editors for literally the entirety of the time that those threads linger on the noticeboards for? — ] ] 11:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I agree. ]. ] (]) 13:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::...Assuming he doesn't edit-war to readd them. I wouldn't put it past them. —] ] <sup><small>] ]</small></sup> 19:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Your feedback would be appreciated at ]. Thanks, ] (]) 22:55, 1 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == Remarkably consistent ChatGPT report templates == | |||
| Lately AN/I seems to have been inundated with incident reports that are obviously the products of an LLM. What I find kind of confusing though is the consistency of the report templates combined with their inappropriateness for adjudicating incidents of the type this page is designed to address. | |||
| Is there any way we can just have a blanket operating procedure to immediately close any incidents created using these templates? It'd probably save a lot of people a lot of time. ] (]) 18:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Can you give some recent examples? ] (]) 18:54, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Here's . They keep popping up.-- ]<sup>]</sup> 18:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Oh. Duh. I was looking at AN. ] (]) 19:02, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::(after edit conflict) It's pretty obvious which reports they are, but I won't go into details because people will just tell their favourite LLM to format things differently and they will be harder to spot. ] may be relevant. ] (]) 19:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::ChatGPT sure has a strange idea of what an effective ANI request looks like. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 19:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::I know, right? It's like the bot produces something remarkably formal, rigid and entirely lacking relevant information. ] (]) ] (]) 19:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Seems like we may as well just close any of these immediately as they arise. -- ] (]) 19:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::n.b. I ended up blocking the filing editor for sockpuppetry as this was a clear behavioral match to the sockfarm that has been plaguing ] <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 19:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::(edit conflict) "entirely lacking relevant information", good description. It also describes unblock requests generated by ChatGPT and the like, of which we get a lot. Note there are the templates, ] through ], which may be helpful. I endorse just closing any such report, as per asilvering. --] (]) 19:30, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Does ChatGPT actually know how ANI/AN work? Misplaced Pages is just one website among many; perhaps it assumes that what works for a petition or a job interview also works for a report on a Misplaced Pages noticeboard. ] (]) 08:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Yes, it knows the purpose, the audience and the nature of typical discussions of both ANI and AN, and the differences, with the caveat that no one currently knows what 'knows' really means for LLMs. ] (]) 09:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| As an aside, I decided to have a LLM chatbot summarize this conversation and propose solutions: | |||
| {{hat|Artificially intelligent analysis — ] <sub>]</sub> 20:04, 26 November 2024 (UTC)}}The conversation highlights an issue with incident reports on the Administrator's Noticeboard for Incidents (AN/I) that are suspected to be generated by ChatGPT or similar large language models (LLMs). These reports follow a rigid, formal template but often lack the contextual or specific information necessary for effective adjudication. | |||
| ;<big>Key Points Raised:</big> | |||
| #'''Template Consistency''': | |||
| #:The reports are strikingly similar in structure, making them easy to identify as potentially LLM-generated. | |||
| #'''Lack of Relevance''': | |||
| #:Despite their formal appearance, these reports fail to include critical details relevant to the incidents, making them unhelpful. | |||
| #'''Proposed Action''': | |||
| #:Several editors, including Simonm223, suggest a blanket policy to close such reports immediately upon identification, as handling them wastes time and resources. | |||
| #'''Sockpuppetry Connection''': | |||
| #:In at least one instance, the editor filing a report was found to be a sockpuppet, raising concerns about misuse of LLMs for evading scrutiny or advancing disruptive agendas. | |||
| #'''Existing Tools''': | |||
| #:The mention of templates (e.g., Template:uw-ai1 through Template:uw-ai4) suggests resources are already in place to address AI-generated contributions, but the community may need more proactive measures. | |||
| #'''Broader Context''': | |||
| #:Similar issues arise with unblock requests generated by LLMs, indicating this is not limited to AN/I reports but part of a larger challenge in managing AI-generated content on the platform. | |||
| ;Suggested Solutions: | |||
| #'''Policy Development''': Establish clear guidelines for handling suspected AI-generated content. | |||
| #'''Automation''': Explore tools or bots to flag and review such contributions before they reach AN/I. | |||
| #'''Awareness and Training''': Educate editors and administrators on identifying and addressing LLM-generated content effectively. | |||
| This issue underscores the need for a balance between leveraging AI's utility and mitigating its misuse in collaborative platforms like Misplaced Pages. | |||
| {{fbdb}} | |||
| {{hab}} | |||
| But on a more serious note, yes; I have seen this sort of formatting. It's somewhat obvious, since nobody naturally writes complaints at ANI in the way that ChatGPT does. The problem is that the ] really do get quite a lot of false positives (they misclassify a good number of pieces of text as AI when they aren't); at best, we're left to our hunches. And I really can't block someone on a mere hunch. | |||
| — ] <sub>]</sub> 20:04, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :No algo needed to observe and identify this kind of thing. Your own eyes and brain work fine. -- ] (]) 20:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I'm not so sure about that. I can see the same thing happening at some of the village pump pages, and the danger is that people will see it and think that it's normal to format things in that way and to bury valid points in loads of meaningless platitudes. If we're not careful life could mimic art. ] (]) 22:31, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::: Regarding that last one at ANI, if you look at the quality of English of the author's previous posts, it was fairly obvious that they didn't write it themselves. This is quite a common reason for people using LLMs, because their own language skills are not good. ] 22:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::People aren't going to think it's normal to format things in that way if we're immediately closing them for being meaningless AI-generated platitudes. -- ] (]) 01:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Why do people like the formal style? This is also ChatGPT for the same request. | |||
| ::::* Oi, listen up, you lot! I’ve been watchin’ the carryings-on with that Hamis Kiggundu page, and it’s a right mess, innit? Some geezer, Timtrent, has been runnin’ the show, blockin’ proper updates and throwin’ his weight around like he owns the gaff. Every edit request gets binned, even the ones that follow Misplaced Pages’s bleedin’ rules to a T! He’s callin’ Ugandan media “churnalism” like he’s some big-time expert, as if local news ain't good enough unless it’s got the BBC’s stamp on it. Worse yet, he’s slinged accusations left, right, and centre—sockpuppetry, paid editing, the lot—without a shred of proof, just to shut people up. Legit editors are too scared to touch the page, and now it’s a dusty relic stuck in 2020! It’s high time the admins stepped in, sorted Timtrent out, and gave this page a proper shake-up. Fair’s fair, innit? | |||
| ::::] (]) 04:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Please un-protect ANI now and in general == | |||
| {{editprotected|answered=yes}} | |||
| Hi, | |||
| ANI is currently as a measure against disruptive edits. | |||
| It's pretty fucked up that one of the main dispute resolution forums would exclude a significant proportion of its disputants without signficant justification. | |||
| I would ask that ANI is unprotected, and only (semi-)protected if more targeted measures (i.e. blocking the disruptive editor/IP) is unfeasible. | |||
| Thank you, ] (]) 23:22, 30 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :This page and other help pages are the target of a long term abusive user; lesser measures do not deter them, unfortunately. ] (]) 23:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Please work out how to get the ] to assist. We can't. ] (]) 00:55, 1 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 01:14, 3 January 2025
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Administrators' noticeboard page. |
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This page has archives. Sections older than 8 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
Editable archives
It seems that the ANI archive pages (e.g. Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1173) have section edit links. This is not normal on archive pages: is it something special to ANI, or a mistake somewhere? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:00, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe {{Administrators' noticeboard navbox all}} can be taught to emit the flag to inhibit that, iff transcluded onto a "subpage" (or "a subpage containing the string 'archive'")? DMacks (talk) 20:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- That wasn't too hard. Which means I probably broke something as a side-effect. Trouts of various sizes welcome as appropriate. DMacks (talk) 16:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- Well, it's suppressed the edit links, so
Thank you for that. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- Well, it's suppressed the edit links, so
- That wasn't too hard. Which means I probably broke something as a side-effect. Trouts of various sizes welcome as appropriate. DMacks (talk) 16:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Broken code in blue "Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents" box
At the bottom of it:
Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are archived automatically by Lowercase sigmabot III. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the /Non-autoconfirmed posts subpage.
|- | class="plainlinks" style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background: var(--color-inverted, #fff); text-align: center; font-size: 125%;" | Start a new discussion
Pretty sure the "|- | class= " etc. bit isn't supposed to be there. -The Bushranger One ping only 04:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- @The Bushranger: I think I fixed it. Jip Orlando (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
"Misplaced Pages:REPORT" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect Misplaced Pages:REPORT to the page Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages only reports what the sources say has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 19 § Misplaced Pages:REPORT until a consensus is reached. 67.209.129.48 (talk) 10:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Questions about TPA and UTRS notification following TPA removal
Your feedback would be appreciated at WT:Blocking policy#Questions about TPA and UTRS notification following TPA removal. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 22:55, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Category: