| Revision as of 23:11, 24 December 2024 editRuduskaMuduska (talk | contribs)15 edits →Updated data: new sectionTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit New topic← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 21:44, 3 January 2025 edit undoDrOrinScrivello (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users3,188 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2025: Marking edit request as answered |
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== Really? == |
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Though it probably has been discussed before in connection with this article, because of the importance of this subject, I'd like to question this anyway: "Common methods of suicide include hanging, pesticide poisoning, and firearms." How can we define those methods as more ''common'' that the fact that many more people seem to end their lives in a longer more drawn-out way through continual substance abuse? In my opinion an autopsy that reveals organ failure or other health disasters due to such abuse should always be included in suicide statistics. Is that done? ] (]) 17:32, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:I think they're distinct processes, even if they're largely related. |
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:More importantly, though, we have to use statistics available to us, and if they do not count what you're suggesting, that's how it is. With consensus perhaps it could be specified precisely what is counted and what is not in the statistics; I would not be part of that consensus because for anyone that interested they can (and should) click through to sources. ] (]) 17:49, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::] is a quite extensive article and does include this. I would say we keep it that way and include the links where they fit in this article. Open for suggestions. ] (]) 23:50, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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'''Proposal:''' |
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Change "Common methods of suicide include hanging, pesticide poisoning, and firearms." |
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to |
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"Common methods of suicide include hanging, pesticide poisoning, firearms and ]." --] (]) 10:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:Suicide is an event. Your own description of deaths from substance abuse as drawn-out excludes them from consideration as suicides. An intentional overdose is a suicide, death by long term effects isn't. --] (]) (]) 13:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::That's just an opinion, not a fact. I see no difference between "an intentional overdose" once or several times. The very word "abuse" entails "intentional" and if that abuse leads to death, it's suicude. --] (]) 13:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::How do you figure that each use of drugs is "an intentional overdose"? Also, by your reasoning, every time a speeder is killed in a wreck it is suicide. --] (]) (]) 15:16, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Not all drug use leads to death. Severe abuse usually does. Driving is irrelevant unless the driver intentionally abuses the car severly by crashing on purpose. --] (]) 13:03, 28 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::You're missing the point. |
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:::::The other editor said {{tq|An intentional overdose is a suicide, death by long term effects isn't.}}, and you respond by saying there is {{tq|no difference between "an intentional overdose" once or several times}}. So the implied logical connection is that you consider each use to be an (intentional) overdose. |
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:::::Also, you're going to need a source for "severe abuse" usually leading to death. Plenty of substance abuse does not lead to death; I'd say the majority does not lead to death. |
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:::::Moreover, without invoking Freud, good luck showing that ''all'' (or even ''most'') substance abuse is suicidal. Plenty of people do not begin for suicidal reasons, and do not continue for suicidal reasons. Plenty of people begin for whatever (non-suicidal) reason and get addicted and thus do not stop, and are not suicidal. Plenty of people abuse substances without being suicidal and maintain functioning. |
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:::::What my comment boils down to is without ] sources to back up your claim, you can speculate and offer your opinion, but it won't trickle down to article changes. ] (]) 13:09, 28 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::OK so severe drug abuse is safe. Fine fine. --] (]) 13:25, 28 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::No. It's just not suicide. You seem to understand the difference when it comes to the example of driving. --] (]) (]) 14:22, 28 March 2024 (UTC) |
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* No. If someone overdoses it's generally an accidental death. If someone just ruins their heart or something on other drugs, it's generally an accidental death. They didnt' set out to die, and presumably would like to continue being alive and using substances. ]] 14:29, 28 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== Crisis hotline image in lead == |
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I recently removed a crisis hotline image in the lead section, but I'm adding this onto the Talk page because it seems to be a disputed edit. User @] added this from the Suicide prevention article ], then added a cute little hidden-comment after it was removed by another editor ]. I certainly don't think the correct approach is to keep re-adding the image after it was removed 3 times without talk page consensus (as well as adding that hidden-comment along with it to deter further amateur editors from removing the image), so my rationale for removing this while it was in the ''lead'' is that this article is about suicide, not suicide prevention. Crisis hotlines do not have a direct relation to suicide, but do have a direct relation to suicide prevention, which has its own article. There is already no consensus to add crisis hotlines as a hatnote, and adding the same thing in image form at the top seems to be POV-pushing the same idea behind adding crisis hotlines at the top. Crisis hotlines correctly have little weight in the lead, and there are many other topics in the lead that warrant illustration. <span style="font-family:sans-serif">— <span style="font-weight:bold">]</span></span> 06:33, 9 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Remove mention of nihilism == |
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== Remove mention of nihilism == |
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Should the data be updated from 2016? ] (]) 23:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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Should the data be updated from 2016? ] (]) 23:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2025 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Suicide|answered=yes}} |
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Health problems can also be a reason for suicide. Can you add that. ] (]) 15:18, 3 January 2025 (UTC) |
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:{{Not done}}: please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 21:44, 3 January 2025 (UTC) |
Nihilism is a philosophical concept and is inappropriate to be listed as a risk factor for suicide. People who are nihilist do not necessarily have a greater risk factor for suicide. Cateydotnet (talk) 04:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
Hi, two relevant sentences on suicide risk in the autistic population are included under the mental illness subheading. Unless this can be linked to mental illness definitively and in a way that does not represent autism as being a mental illness itself, should it be under a different (or its own) subheading? Or should things be reordered to provide a subheading for neurodevelopmental conditions generally? Micahtchi (talk) 00:33, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
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level-3 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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Note: The question of adding a crisis hotline number to this article has been discussed. Please review previous discussions before bringing it up again. See Talk:Suicide/crisis hotline link, and also this request for comment. The hat note should not be changed without first establishing a new consensus.
Done, thanks. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 20:01, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 21:44, 3 January 2025 (UTC)