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== December music ==
{{User QAIbox
| image = Ehrenbach, snow on grass melting.jpg
| image_upright = 1.3
| bold = ] · ] · ]
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On the Main page today ] on his birthday. Listening to Beethoven's ] from the ]. We ] today. -- ] (]) 21:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
:What pretty choral spaces. Best, ] (]) 23:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Thank you! - Rehearsal was difficult - too many new pieces, too little light - but the singing, with raised vigilance, was good. - What do you think of {{diff|Samuel Barber|1251417174||this edit}}? --] (]) 10:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:: Listen today to the (new) ]. - Do you expect to see the places of birth and death in an infobox, - that is the simple question. Do you have time to say yes or no? --] (]) 10:25, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
:: The Samuel Barber situation looks resolved. I still find it sad that it happened at all, wasting time of five editors. I understand that you are busy, but in the new year, I want to engage arbitration to get to terms with editors still thinking that edit warring is a method to prevent information that our MoS displaced from the lead, such as places of birth and death, and recently honorific suffix. Where should they go if not in an infobox? - I will see an opera tonight! By the composer with the ongoing RfC!! The trailer (in ]) looks spectacular!!! --] (]) 10:45, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
:::So one of the great joys of not being on arbcom is I get to decide what I want to spend time on. And at least at the moment that isn't infoboxes. I know it remains on your mind but between the u4c and what already sucks me in I have a full plate of project work (especially relative to the content I've done lately). I am on team "edit warring about them is bad" so I wish good luck with cutting down on that in the new year. Best, ] (]) 05:42, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
:::: One of the great joys on Misplaced Pages is that the Barber case has now (overnight) been completed nicely. May it be for a bright future. Enjoy the seasons, and me not bothering you again. On Beethoven's birthday I ] (when his 250th bday was remembered). I fondly remember when Worm That Turned (who had co-written the infoboxes case) {{diff|Ludwig van Beethoven|662287287||installed the community consensus}}. I thought that possibility of a compromise would end the conflict, DYK? - Right now I'm working on 6 Bach cantata GAs parallel, almost too much of a good thing, but they all turn 300 years, and Christmas in Bach's Leipzig was on 3 days, each with a new cantata. I love creating content! --] (]) 11:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::I think the community consensus provision has shaped and dulled the conflict even as it hasn't quite eliminated it. Best, ] (]) 16:27, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
:::: Listen today to Beethoven's 3rd cello sonata, on his birthday - I picked a recording with ], because he was on my ] this year, and I was in Brazil (see places), and I love his playing. --] (]) 16:09, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
:::: I come to fix the cellist's name, with ] and new pics - look for red birds --] (]) 17:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

== Is relisting the AfD a possibility? I'd still like a consensus for the new sources I researched ==

I'm not sure if it's appropriate to post in your talk page regarding this, but would relisting the AfD be a possible outcome? I spent a lot of time digging up those sources, and I don't know if I can rewrite the whole article with the new sources without the previous version of the article. I'm just hoping that my time and effort isn't going to waste because I truly do believe that my argument is solid enough to establish GNG of 15.ai. ] (]) 22:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

:Relisting is absolutely a possible outcome. Feel free to suggest it at DRV. Best, ] (]) 23:49, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
::I had already done that, sorry for the confusion -- what I meant was since you were able to change it from "no consensus" to "delete", would it be possible to change it to "relist" to gain a better consensus on the sources? Or is that an inappropriate question to ask? I apologize in advance if I shouldn't have asked that. I just can't remember what the article used to look like and the logs don't exist.

::And also, should I tag the users that I mentioned voted Keep? For example, I wrote "Schützenpanzer changed their vote from Weak Keep to Keep, JarJarInks voted Keep, Aaron Liu expressed his Keep vote (but didn't bold it)" without using the ] tag. I don't know if this would be considered canvassing, so I thought I'd ask you before I did anything like that. ] (]) 23:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm sorry for not discussing with you on your talk page before creating the deletion review. I didn't know that it was considered polite to ask and then bring it to DRV, and sadly Liz hadn't responded by the time I had already posted it on DRV. I think it's too late for that now, but I would have asked you to reconsider de-weighting EC's arguments because I feel like I gave a pretty good one. I really, really think that moving it from "no consensus" to "delete" was incorrect, so if there's any alternative that could keep the article intact so I can edit in my drafts, I implore that I be given a chance to do that. ] (]) 12:55, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Navigating Wiki procedures can be a challenge. One general tip is to read the full set of instructions (where discussing with a closer was mentioned) and not just the "how to" (which I know is itself intimidating). In this case it does not matter as I could relist but I stand by my re-close of the topic. While I appreciate your passion and the work you did on the article and it certainly had an impact, I think there was a consensus (but not a vote) to delete this article. As discussed, I do think giving you access to the deleted text (if it stays deleted) is appropriate as there might be another place you could use the writing and incorporate your further research. ] (]) 15:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

== Could you mention that as the closing admin, I was never sent a draft of the old article? ==

People seem to think that the new article is a copy of the old 15.ai article, but it isn’t since I spent all of last night writing this one. I’d really appreciate it if you could clarify that for anyone who thinks that. ] (]) 19:27, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

== New U4C Blog ==

Following the suggestions of @] & @] in my solicitation for feedback, I have now started a U4C blog. You can read it at ]. Best, ] (]) 18:06, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

== Feedback from Goldsztajn ==

I appreciate the way someone with your profile has engaged on the HF/WTT RfAs - we might have different views, but you set a standard worthy of emulation. Thank you and regards, --] (]) 01:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks for that feedback. I know on this kind of position I'm part of a wiki minority but I also believe consensus can change and I work to try and change it. Best, ] (]) 01:24, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


== Season's Greetings == == Season's Greetings ==
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The first round will end on 26 February. The judges for the WikiCup this year are: {{User4|Cwmhiraeth}}, {{User4|Epicgenius}}, {{User4|Frostly}}, {{User4|Guerillero}} and {{User4|Lee Vilenski}}. Good luck! <small>If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from ].</small> ] (]) 00:13, 1 January 2025 (UTC) The first round will end on 26 February. The judges for the WikiCup this year are: {{User4|Cwmhiraeth}}, {{User4|Epicgenius}}, {{User4|Frostly}}, {{User4|Guerillero}} and {{User4|Lee Vilenski}}. Good luck! <small>If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from ].</small> ] (]) 00:13, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
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== January music ==
{{User QAIbox
| image = Ehrenbach icicles.jpg
| image_upright = 0.8
| bold = ] · ] · ]
}}
Happy new year 2025, opened with ] that first sounded OTD in 1725 (as the Main page has). -- ] (]) 16:06, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
=== Precious anniversary ===
{{User QAIbox/auto|years=Six}}
--] (]) 08:43, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

== Summary of off-wiki feedback given to me and reflections on the process overall ==

In the interests of transparency, I will say that I received several substantive pieces of feedback offwiki.

*Continue doing: this feedback pretty closely matched the feedback offered on wiki. If someone's really interested I'll go into details but it feels ridiculous to summarize this publicly.
*Start/stop: There was a theme among some that I am, at times, more abrupt/curt/hard line/cutting in my off-wiki communications than I am on-wiki. This is summarizing feedback by three different people which was offered in quite some depth (which I appreciate).
*:For the feedback which came more from my work on arbcom, I certainly can understand where the feedback came from but I'm not so convinced that I should do anything differently were I to be on arbcom again. For the feedback which came from people's personal encounters I've given it a lot more thought and it is something I'm going to try and act differently with. The people who gave me feedback are all people who I am friendly with and who also had nice things to say but the question for me is whether there are others who felt impacted but didn't feel comfortable giving feedback. In the specific instances given as examples (which applies more to the abrupt/curt/cutting) I certainly knew that I was writing in a different tone than how I'd have said something on wiki. Some of that is because off-wiki is more casual, some of it is because I didn't invest the same amount of time I would have on wiki. Knowing the impact it had means I'm going to approach such situations at least more carefully and perhaps all together different.

Overall I'd say this was a successful process. I got positive affirmation and some meaningful feedback about things I might want to do differently. I would definitely encourage other admins to consider. Best, ] (]) 17:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

== Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment ==

]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 23:30, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==

]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 16:31, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

== Administrators' newsletter – January 2025 ==

] from the past month (December 2024).

<div style="display: flex; flex-wrap: wrap">
<div style="flex: 1 0 20em">

] '''Administrator changes'''
:] ]
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:] {{hlist|class=inline
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] '''CheckUser changes'''
:] {{hlist|class=inline
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] '''Oversight changes'''
:] {{hlist|class=inline
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:] ]

</div>
</div>

] '''Guideline and policy news'''
* Following ], ] was adopted as a ].
* A ] is open to discuss whether admins should be advised to warn users rather than issue no-warning blocks to those who have posted promotional content outside of article space.
] '''Technical news'''
* The Nuke feature also now ] to the userpage of the user whose pages were deleted, and to the pages which were not selected for deletion, after page deletions are queued. This enables easier follow-up admin-actions.

] '''Arbitration'''
* Following the ], the following editors have been elected to the Arbitration Committee: {{noping|CaptainEek}}, {{noping|Daniel}}, {{noping|Elli}}, {{noping|KrakatoaKatie}}, {{noping|Liz}}, {{noping|Primefac}}, {{noping|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, {{noping|Theleekycauldron}}, {{noping|Worm That Turned}}.

] '''Miscellaneous'''
* A ] is happening in January 2025 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the ]. ]

----
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Revision as of 15:46, 5 January 2025


Archives (Index)

Season's Greetings

Hello Barkeep49: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Misplaced Pages. Cheers, AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 01:54, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

Invited collab on Arbitration report

Hi Barkeep49, I noticed your extensive research posted at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5/Evidence and your followup notes in the workshop. I'm usually the writer for The Signpost's Arbitration report and it caught my eye. Would you be interested in collaborating on a writeup for the next issue (~January 7)? ☆ Bri (talk) 17:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Sure @Bri. How could I help? On a different note someone has suggested that the Signpost might be interested in User:Barkeep49/U4C. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Cool! I'm most interested in the hypothesis you mentioned at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5/Workshop#Analysis of Barkeep49's evidence. I'll leave it up to you how you want to present that, the data gathering, and how you decided your hypothesis was falsified. Maybe my part is to do a succinct introduction and wrapper describing where we are at with PIA5? What do you think?
I've put a shell in place at WP:Misplaced Pages Signpost/Next next issue/Arbitration report. ☆ Bri (talk) 19:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Now that the final 2024 issue is done, I've moved this to "next issue" space for next Signpost issue: WP:Misplaced Pages Signpost/Next issue/Arbitration report. ☆ Bri (talk) 03:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. Let me know if you need anything further from me but absent feedback from you I don't have any expansion plans (though am happy to do so if you think something needs expanding). Barkeep49 (talk) 16:53, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 December 2024

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!

Hello Barkeep49, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025.
Happy editing,
Abishe (talk) 04:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Abishe (talk) 04:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Question about 15.ai AfD

I'm not sure if I'm correctly following the recent discussion, but did I do something wrong? I tried to avoid WP:BLUDGEONING the discussion but I might have gotten too carried away. Is there any chance that the AfD will be speedily deleted? GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 04:07, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Each individual post of yours is defensible but the total number of edits has been a lot. Obviously not so much I've yet said anything, but you're playing with fire each time you past. As for deletion it's possible some admin could come and close it as speedy deletion but I think that's unlikely at this time both because it's unlikely an admin will notice it and because even if they do, they would have to explain how it met the criteria. Barkeep49 (talk) 04:46, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
But most of my edits are me just editing my own messages in quick succession right after I submitted one… I don't think I made 52 separate comments as BusterD said. I want to respond to their comment because I want to defend myself but I don't know if I should. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 10:38, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
You have painted yourself into this corner, GregariousMadness. It is your behavior, not content of those individual edits, which has made such an impression on me. On Misplaced Pages, it's usually better to make your point with sources, not argumentation. It's a forgivable newbie error. What I said at the AfD is what I believe any closer might say when they come to this discussion. Remember I started this process neutrally, disinterested in the outcome, as an admin should be. But as page creator, I'm a page watcher as well. I have a wide difference of views from many of the !voters, but I have largely sat quiet. Your behaviors in this process wouldn't reflect well on any participant. That you can't see that is precisely the handicap under which you're laboring. BusterD (talk) 11:02, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
On Misplaced Pages, it's usually better to make your point with sources, not argumentation. I'm really confused by what I did wrong because I thought all of my arguments were based on sources I was finding. I have 17 comments in the AfD total right now. I tried being cautious so as not to bludgeon and I was told that commenting new sources as a new comment would not be counted as a bludgeon, which was why I was happy to make my point there. I'm asking you, as a veteran editor, how I can improve going forward, and explicitly pointing out where I went wrong would be very helpful to me. But right now, I am just too scared to say anything in the AfD. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 11:08, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
@GregariousMadness I count about 90 replies. You having about 1/5 of all replies is an issue. Your % of bytes is even more disproportionate - coming in at 1/3 (the # of edits you've made is even more disproportionate but that reflects your habit of making tweaks to edits you've made as much as anything). My recommendation going forward is not to post. And where you feel you must do it on the talk page. I'm really trying to give you leeway - I'm here to create not delete stuff and so letting the best case possible be put forward for a marginal topic is something I value - but you're basically out of that leeway and if you can't show good judgement about when to post I will force the issue through a partial block. Barkeep49 (talk) 00:15, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm really sorry. I'll stop posting, but again I don't think I have 90 replies. I counted them one by one, and the reason my reply count seems so big is because I have a habit of making trivial edits after I've made a post. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 00:22, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
There are ~90 total replies so your 17 is about 20% of the total replies. As noted here and at the AfD by bytes you have a higher proportion. Barkeep49 (talk) 05:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
And as for the last reply, I did it because I originally brought to topic to HyperAccelerated's talk page, but they told me to continue the conversation in the AfD instead. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 00:23, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to the 2025 WikiCup!

Happy New Year and Happy New WikiCup! The 2025 competition has just begun and all article creators, expanders, improvers and reviewers are welcome to take part. Even if you are a novice editor, we hope the WikiCup will give you a chance to improve your editing skills as you go. If you have already signed up, your submissions page can be found here. If you have not yet signed up, you can add your name here and the judges will set up your submissions page ready for you to take part. Any questions on the scoring, rules or anything else should be directed to one of the judges, or posted to the WikiCup talk page.

For the 2025 WikiCup, we've implemented several changes to the scoring system. The highest-ranking contestants will now receive tournament points at the end of each round, and final rankings are decided by the number of tournament points each contestant has. If you're busy and can't sign up in January, don't worry: Signups are now open throughout the year. To make things fairer for latecomers, the lowest-scoring contestants will no longer be eliminated at the end of each round.

The first round will end on 26 February. The judges for the WikiCup this year are: Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs · email), Epicgenius (talk · contribs · email), Frostly (talk · contribs · email), Guerillero (talk · contribs · email) and Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs · email). Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:13, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

January music

story · music · places

Happy new year 2025, opened with trumpet fanfares that first sounded OTD in 1725 (as the Main page has). -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:06, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious
Six years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:43, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Summary of off-wiki feedback given to me and reflections on the process overall

In the interests of transparency, I will say that I received several substantive pieces of feedback offwiki.

  • Continue doing: this feedback pretty closely matched the feedback offered on wiki. If someone's really interested I'll go into details but it feels ridiculous to summarize this publicly.
  • Start/stop: There was a theme among some that I am, at times, more abrupt/curt/hard line/cutting in my off-wiki communications than I am on-wiki. This is summarizing feedback by three different people which was offered in quite some depth (which I appreciate).
    For the feedback which came more from my work on arbcom, I certainly can understand where the feedback came from but I'm not so convinced that I should do anything differently were I to be on arbcom again. For the feedback which came from people's personal encounters I've given it a lot more thought and it is something I'm going to try and act differently with. The people who gave me feedback are all people who I am friendly with and who also had nice things to say but the question for me is whether there are others who felt impacted but didn't feel comfortable giving feedback. In the specific instances given as examples (which applies more to the abrupt/curt/cutting) I certainly knew that I was writing in a different tone than how I'd have said something on wiki. Some of that is because off-wiki is more casual, some of it is because I didn't invest the same amount of time I would have on wiki. Knowing the impact it had means I'm going to approach such situations at least more carefully and perhaps all together different.

Overall I'd say this was a successful process. I got positive affirmation and some meaningful feedback about things I might want to do differently. I would definitely encourage other admins to consider. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Administrators' newsletter – January 2025

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2024).

Administrator changes

added Sennecaster
readded
removed

CheckUser changes

added
readded Worm That Turned
removed Ferret

Oversight changes

added
readded Worm That Turned

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • The Nuke feature also now provides links to the userpage of the user whose pages were deleted, and to the pages which were not selected for deletion, after page deletions are queued. This enables easier follow-up admin-actions.

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)