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== Administrators' newsletter – January 2023 ==
== Zionist terrorist group? ==
Hello Zero0000,
I am glad you contribute so much to wikipedia, but don't you think refering to the Lehi as a Zionist terrorist group is a little radical?
I am well aware of the Lehi's history and actions, but terrorist group sounds a tad far-fetched to me. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
] from the past month (December 2022).
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Great to see your footprints around here again. Especially since the ] indefinitely topic-banned many knowledgeable people.] (]) 16:28, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
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:Hi ! Happy to see you here ! ] (]) 15:20, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
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::Good to see you back; I was afraid we'd lost you for good. Looking forward to working with you ro improve many articles. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">]</span> 15:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
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== NML Allenby barracks area ==
== removed source ==
You removed a source here ]. could you explain your edit summary? it's not my unsourced opinion. -] (]) 12:18, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
: here's the source, here's http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/res181.asp a primary source using the historical term for the approximate region of the west bank in ]. ] (]) 12:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Re would you consider as a reliable source? ] (]) 19:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
: Please see my note on ]. Regarding res 181, nobody denies that "Judea" and "Samaria" are valid geographic names, but "West Bank" is a political name. Res 181 did not use "Judea and Samaria" as the name of a political division because there was no such political division at the time. Please read all the argument on this subject recorded around Misplaced Pages, you will find that everything that can be said on the subject has been said multiple times already. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:36, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
:(page-stalker) ] is definitely RS, ] (]) 20:34, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
::{{re|Selfstudier}} A serious piece of research published in an academic journal. Even if it is attributed, it should be cited as the result of a research project and not just as a claim. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 05:05, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
:::Thanks. Could I impose on you for a pic like the one at https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-usa-embassy-land/u-s-jerusalem-embassy-lies-at-the-end-of-the-world-idUSKCN1IF1RE? ] (]) 12:30, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
::::{{re|Selfstudier}} I'm a bit confused by the timeline because aerial photos show construction starting around 2007. I've got a fiendishly busy week but I'll get to this eventually. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:51, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::Np, take your time. I'm still researching it. ] (]) 12:59, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::We can also use the new map at ] where they have atm ] ] (]) 17:11, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
== Hütteroth,Wolf-Deiter ==
== New templates? ==
Oopsh,thanks.Iwillcorrectit as Icomeacrossit.Regards, ] (]) 21:27, 19June2009 (UTC)
Are we supposed to use these new awareness templates as of now? Per ]. ] (]) 15:12, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
:Greetings Zero0000! I hope you don't mind me asking, but I saw what you posted at Huldra's talk page about owning the Hutteroth book. May I ask that whenever you have the time, could you provide the 1596 populations for ], ], and ] (the latter is a much newer locality that includes Deir Ghassaneh and Beit Rima) like you did for ]? It would be well appreciated. Cheers! --] (]) 22:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the info! It was very helpful and I might ask for more info in the near future ;) --] (]) 16:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:{{Re|Selfstudier}} Confusing. It seems that the first alert given to an ARBPIA editor should now be <nowiki> {{subst:alert/first|a-i}}</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>{{subst:alert|a-i}}</nowiki>. It is better I think because it mentions the 30/500 restriction and 1RR instead of expecting the editor to read the ARBPIA page. If I understand footnote "n" at ], it is not necessary to give the new alert to people who previously received the old alert. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:25, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
== Irgun attacks ==
::That seems clear enough. And <nowiki>{{Contentious topics/page restriction editnotice|topic=a-i}}</nowiki> for the edit notice? Adding section = yes if it is just partial. I didn't see a new talk page template, just use existing? ] (]) 10:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:::{{Re|Selfstudier}} There is <nowiki>{{Contentious topics/talk notice|topic=a-i}}</nowiki>. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 11:35, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
::::Ah, missed that. K, got it now :) ] (]) 11:38, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::The old templates are autoupdating, looks of it. ] (]) 16:26, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
== Southern Levant ==
Added references, exact page numbers will have to wait (too busy), but anyone with access to the book should be able to find the relevant information easily because the entries in the book appear in a chronological order. One attack is still missing citation, it was originally, perhaps your edit summary can give a hint as to where to find an Irgun acknowledgment.--] (]) 07:35, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Great job on the image, but I saw now that the two images below it have the same inaccuracy, could you fix them? ] (]) 21:12, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
== Convoy of 35 ==
Hi Zero! Sry, no insult intended, but I reverted your repeated posting of that sentence in ]. Like I wrote several times now, it makes no sense to the uninformed reader. Would you pls rephrase it in a way that readers who haven't read the source understand what you want to say? See the discussion page of the article! Thank you.] (]) 17:04, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:Wow! MUCH better now! This is clear and informative. Thank you!] (]) 10:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
== The "Black Death theory" belongs to User:Skylax30, it doesn't exist in the referenced text ==
== re: 98.204.183.125 ==
The "Black Death" is not mentioned in any part of the text, which I completely read. You can see it for yourself: https://brill.com/view/journals/jesh/65/4/article-p497_1.xml ] (]) 12:44, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|Mercresis}} It is in footnote 19 with additional references. Quotation: "{{tq|Recent studies see a direct connection between the fast Ottoman military advance and the consequences of the Black Death from the mid-fourteenth century onwards. They emphasize that Byzantine territories, where the initial Ottoman conquests were carried out, were exhausted (both demographically and militarily) due to the plague outbreaks, which facilitated the Ottoman expansion.}}" It is almost the same as our article had. Please put it back. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 13:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
{{done}} You may want to check to see that I've done this correctly. I would have made it an indef., but was afraid that being an IP vs. a registered user - that might be extreme, especially as there was a clean block log. Cheers, and have a good day. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:12, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – February 2023 ==
: Thanks! ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:39, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
:I have blocked you for 24h for a prima facie 3RR violation. You are well aware of the rules, so I do hope you have good reason for this. I looked over the edits carefully before deciding to block. If I were in the same position I would have stopped and started using talk pages or the dispute resolution mechanism rather than edit war. I realise the other party isn't completely blameless, but the fact that you're an admin and didn't stop early and use talk pages (today and in the past) was determinative for me. I hope after the block that you will be able to sort out the dispute properly. ]<sup>]</sup> 19:58, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
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Hey Zero just saw you started editing again. I don't edit much now but its still good to know some of the other old guys are. On a side not I was sure you had died or something since your last edit two years ago mentioned that you were going overseas for a few days.- ] | ] 04:21, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
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: {{Re|Riskit 4 a biskit}} This talmud is frequently called the Palestinian Talmud in scholarly writing. (Search for "Palestinian Talmud" with quotes at scholar.google.com .) So it is reasonable for the article to say why it is called that. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 23:56, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
== On reflection ==
I am going to copy Lebanon, South Africa and Brittany off to the talk page. Probably the Channel Islands too. All of them have the problem you mentioned about Palestine, ie possibly some wannabes, but I don't really see sourced *collaboration* yet, although I think it is there to be found . But it will be petty, so whereas when I first came to the article the weight seemed undue towards eastern Europe, very light on North Africa, it now seems to have gone somewhat too far in the other direction. And Japan, I am not even sure what to say. Too steep a learning curve, which is what I thought of Irgun.
I am going to do one more pass to try to reference what is there in Europe -- I have already done several passes on all three continents -- then start from the other end, looking for highly-cited work that may not be included. Does that sound like a good plan? It's impolite of course to ask people what exactly their level of expertise and areas of knowledge are, but in this very fraught instance I'm just going to say that you seem to have some topic knowledge, probably broader and deeper than mine, and definitely much much more so in the middle east. So I humbly ask that to the extent you can, please do continue to review what we're doing and let us know if we're citing discredited authors or anything else that would be embarrassing. I have no particular agenda to prove anything in the area, except that I know more about Vichy France than the rest of it due to my educational history. But I am not a historian.
I feel like I am treading on dangerous ground, but the article does desperately need improvement, and I have done big messy cleanups before. So...I will not ping you more than I have to, but I'm about to write some more questions on the talk page and should you feel so moved, your attention there would be welcome. Oh, and if you are interested, there is a question at RSN about the Blue Police, but it's had a couple of answers, so as I sometimes say, don't spend more time on this than you want to. Thanks ] (]) 01:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – March 2023 ==
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== ]: Arbitration case opened ==
Hello {{u|Zero0000}},
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at ]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at ]. '''Please add your evidence by April 04, 2023, which is when the first evidence phase closes.''' Submitted evidence will be summarized by Arbitrators and Clerks at ]. Owing to the summary style, editors are encouraged to submit evidence in small chunks sooner rather than more complete evidence later.
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For a guide to the arbitration process, see ].
For the Arbitration Committee,<br>] (]) 00:12, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
== You've got mail ==
{{You've got mail|dashlesssig=] ] 08:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)}}
== Wrong syntax ==
In , I think you want to use {{tl|u}}. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</sub> 04:12, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
: Quite so, tx. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 04:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
== Polish guards at Belzec ==
I agree with your statement on ArbCom. Also it's worth noting what USHMM is actually saying {{tq|former Soviet prisoners of war (POWs) of various nationalities or Ukrainian and Polish civilians}}, it doesn't determine their ethnicity, only the fact that before 1939 they were citizens of Poland, so most likely west Ukrainians. Ukrainian civilians refer probably to the Ukrainian SSR citizens in its pre-1939 borders ] (]) 15:12, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
== Another thank you: This time massacre at Kolo ==
Thank you for your ArbCom explanation about my edit (a very long time ago). It felt odd to be named in the first place, and it's very pleasant that you straightened things out. To the point, I'd like to draw your attention to my comment on the same page:
''@Horse Eye's Back: Thanks for the mention of my counter-disruptive efforts three years ago. Such work is rarely acknowledged and so I appreciate it. For the same reason that you swam away from that one issue then, I am almost totally retired from Misplaced Pages now. But let me be clear, this is definitely not simply a case of zealous 'nationalists' versus the noble souls who crusade against them. The zealous 'crusaders' are sometimes so convinced of their own virtue that they assume bad faith in content when there is no such thing, and go ahead and disrupt the topic area based on their own projections of malice. A notorious case was Icewhiz, another case was Varsovian, both AFAIR indefinitely blocked or permanently banned from the topic area. At times, IMHO SlimVirgin was one of those problematic crusaders too. Misplaced Pages policy and guidelines already got it right long ago, that it takes two to tango. Many trolls have their opposite number, with which they exchange bait. Personal psychology becomes relevant because that dynamic becomes an addiction to conflict, with the impossible objective of winning. Btw I entirely concur with you about Piotrus and hereby vouch for him too. -Chumchum7 (talk) 06:53, 18 March 2023 (UTC)''
Please keep up the good work. Many thanks, -] (]) 08:41, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
== Kolo ==
I've been reading quite a bit lately about the police system in occupied Poland, so I have some knowledge on the subject. There were two formations in the German formations called the Gendarmerie: Gendarmerie des Reiches (essentially uniformed police serving in villages and small towns, part of the Orpo) and the Feldgendarmerie, which was essentially Military Police within the Wehrmacht. So the gendarmes may have been part of the Wehrmacht.
The second issue is the participation of Poles. Poles were generally not allowed to serve in the German police or the Wehrmacht. Volksdeutsche could not do so either. Volksdeutsche could serve in the Sonderdienst (created, however, only in May 1940) or in the Hilfspolizei; only after good service did they receive Reichsdeutsche status and the right to serve in the regular police force. Ethnic Poles had this path closed. The conscription of Volksdeutsche to the Wehrmacht began on a massive scale only in 1942, before that it was sporadic.
It is very possible that those in reference ("were all born in Poland") were Polish Germans who left Poland for Germany before 1939 and returned with the army (this was quite common) or members of the Volksdeutscher Selbstschutz, an organization composed of Germans living in Poland responsible for horrific crimes. It is also possible that by "gendarme" this witness meant any uniformed German who was not a Wehrmacht soldier (and the Gendarmerie des Reiches was the formation that Poles encountered most often). (pinging @], because I comment on it on her talk page before making more reading) ] (]) 12:41, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|Marcelus|Chumchum7}} Thanks. I'm having trouble confirming the information at from any other source. The best I have found from that early period is mention of murder but not mention of a large scale massacre. Can either of you read Yiddish? There's a memorial volume called ''Sefer Kolo'' that might have something but the only version I can find online is or . There is also a Hebrew edition I can't find and a that doesn't include the Holocaust years. I think that the text should be retired from the article if no confirmation can be found. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 13:00, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
::"Do końca 1939 r. Niemcy rozstrzelali ok. 300 Żydów." -> "By the end of 1939 the Germans executed about 300 Jews." (RS: ) ] (]) 13:10, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
:::{{Re|Marcelus}} Good find! That page looks more reliable than the Yahadmap one, so maybe it should be used instead? Incidentally, though I have done bulk reading on Holocaust history I have no intention of editing there; my main interest Israel-Palestine gives me more than enough trouble. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 13:21, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
:::And a speedy find. Which begs an important question: what does it say about perception and attitude that an editor took a single uncontroversial edit from years ago and dragged it into ArbCom, instead of (1) fixing it, (2) reverting with explanation or (3) taking it to the talk page? For me, it illustrates our common problem of presumptuous crusading as over-reaction to falsely-perceived trolling. The nationalists and crusaders take each others' bait. Hence my near-retirement. -] (]) 15:12, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
::::Unfortunately, most of the evidences pointed out by @] are of this type, as I already wrote her about in a discussion a few days ago (]); unfortunately, it seems to me this is partly due to ignorance of the subject. That is, I had not heard of the massacre in Koło before, but knowing where this city lies and what happened in the region in 1939, it immediately seemed to me that it is as plausible that such an event took place. ] (]) 18:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
== Model discussion of the source ==
Thank you for saying that, because that is what I was trying for. However, the link did not go where I expected. This is likely my fault, as I recognize the link as something I had in my sandbox. Let me get you the correct link. Assuming I understand your point. ].] (]) 08:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|Elinruby}} That doesn't work for me, maybe because it's a mobile link and I'm on desktop. How about ]? I'm finding the process confusing, and for some comments I can't tell if they are intended as criticism or praise. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 08:19, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
maybe. We're talking about the RSN thread on the Blue Police and the question of whether the source supported the "death" statement, right? it's in archive 398 and the title of the thread is "The Blue Police in Poland" ] (]) 08:33, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|Elinruby}} Right, that's exactly where I go when I click on the wikilink I just gave. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 08:39, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
ok, well at least we're talking about the same thing.
For now, I guess disregard my comment about the link, and I'll come back and tell you where I go if it's still doing it after I reboot. Or open an OTRS or something.
So back to the main point: thank you for saying that, because that was my point. The main one, anyway. This is what I was trying to send when I had an edit conflict: I for one am pretty traumatized by the war in Ukraine articles. Do not want to go through a 17th or 18th iteration of that, especially if I can't talk about it and have to AGF all over again. If you're asking about *my* last post, the answer is both. I am trying to be fair while retaining all the shades of grey.
(The next day) the link you give above with the displaytext "this link" is correct, and goes to the correct section of archive 398.
The one in your question to me at ArbCom goes to the top of archive 375, as verified by the url. I don't mean to bludgeon you about this, but if you think that the RSN thread about the Blue Police is a model discussion of content, then I am very gratified as its author and would like to see this (IMHO) very important point given the proper weight by arbitrators, which is more likely if the link goes to the discussion you are describing. Thanks for your attention to this ] (]) 05:15, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|Elinruby}} Thanks, now I get it. I don't know how that happened. I fixed it now, do you agree? ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 05:23, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
:: Yes. You fixed it now.
:: As for the buffer error, presumably at some point you looked at that archive, shrug, and were thinking of saying something to somebody about something in it. Common issue based on call center experience. Real answer depends on whether you were using a mouse, but I don't think you are asking for that much detail, are you? ] (]) 05:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
== Evidence submission at ] ==
I have recently blanked the portion of your evidence submission that was not moved to analysis. Having read it a couple of times it seems far more like analysis than evidence, including the fact that it was directed towards other editors rather than arbitrators. You would be welcome to post any/all of the content that was there at an existing analysis section (or if no section has been created, new). Please let me know if you have any questions about this or what we're looking for in evidence/analysis. ] (]) 16:02, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
== I've noticed ==
]. Interesting analysis. It may be worth pointing out my edit is all the way back from 2009... <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</sub> 13:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
:<page stalker>, yeah, and given that you have 260k+ edits on en.wp, they would have least had to have gone through 200000 of your edits in order to find that -one- edit. My oh my, I must confess I'm in absolute awe over their industriousness! ] (]) 20:51, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
::@] Could also be zeal ]. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</sub> 07:36, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
:::], thanks, I know (having also been the subject of his unwanted attention), cheers, ] (]) 22:40, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
== Missing Guerin ==
Regarding
*{{cite book|last=Guérin|first=V.|author-link=Victor Guérin|title=Description Géographique Historique et Archéologique de la Palestine|url=https://archive.org/details/descriptiongogr04gugoog|volume=2: Samarie, pt. 2|year=1875|publisher= L'Imprimerie Nationale|location=Paris|language=fr}}
It is missing 2 pages after p. , that is pp 128-129.
Those two pages are about ] and ]; you wouldn't happen to have access to them? Cheers, ] (]) 23:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
:{{To|Huldra}} Download different copy from Google . ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 08:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
:::Ah, that is great; thanks!
:::Also, I see a lot was uploaded to commons, not that particular version, though, Thanks again, ] (]) 22:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
== ] ==
You protected this page, and the article, in June 2014 following oversight actions on both. Do you believe continued protection of the talk page is warranted? ] (]) 23:31, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
: I removed the protection from the talk page. The article remains semiprotected, but according to the ARBPIA rules autoconfirmed status is not enough to edit there anyway. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:35, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
I see that you also protected ] in December 2019 after an oversight action. Can that be lifted? ] (]) 16:21, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
: Done. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:50, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – April 2023 ==
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== Broken link ==
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== Article access? ==
Hey, do you have access to this full article? https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-10-14/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/documents-confirm-israelis-poisoned-arab-wells-in-1948/00000183-d2b2-d8cc-afc7-fefed64d0000 ] (]) 19:11, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|Supreme Deliciousness}} Yes, if you send me mail I will send it to you. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:28, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
::Sent you a mail, please also send this one: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-23/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israel-poisoned-palestinian-land-to-build-west-bank-settlement-in-1970s-documents-reveal/00000188-e8aa-df52-a79d-fcabdd200000 --] (]) 17:13, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | for willingness to give advice on prioritizing hazmat cleanup ] (]) 03:14, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
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== Help with Rabbi Yehoshua Fass article ==
Hello {{u|Zero0000}}. I am the declared COI editor for ]. I've seen your editing on Israel and Jewish-related content on Misplaced Pages, and would appreciate your help with the publication of ], the founder of Nefesh B'Nefesh. In 2021, ] resulted in a redirect. This new draft is significantly expanded and reflects the extensive coverage Rabbi Fass has garnered over the years. I'd be grateful for your assistance and input in creating an independent article for Rabbi Fass. Thank you ] (]) 10:09, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
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== Regarding my inappropriate reply to you on Talk:There was no such thing as Palestinians ==
Hello,
I'm contacting you here for two reasons:
1. I want to directly and unreservedly apologise for for my ]. You are completely right, and I'm grateful for your clear explanation of ''why'' that is the case.
2. As a non-extended-confirmed editor, I have just realised that I have violated ] by involving myself in discussion in the first place.
As far as I can tell, I have therefore violated two policies. As a relatively inexperienced editor, I'm not sure what to do next. Is there a formal procedure via which I can effectively report myself for policy violations? ] (]) 01:23, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:{{Re|Foxmilder}} Don't worry about the comments made in haste and thanks for the apology. Non-extended-confirmed editors were permitted to take part in talk page discussions until 9 days ago; now only edit requests are permitted. Cheers. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:54, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::I did not know that, so thanks — again — for explaining.
::Your patience and tolerance set a good example. Next time I'm tempted to say something stupid on a talk page, I will endeavour to keep these virtues in mind.
Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2023|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:20, 28 November 2023 (UTC)</small>
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== Paul vs Saul from https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Persecution_of_Christians ==
Hey Zero0000
It seems you reverted my revision claiming that since Paul=small and Saul=asked for, that Paul did change his name
This is somewhat irrelevant. It was common practice in that era for people to have two names, one which was their Hebrew given name and then another name that sounded more "greek". These were frequently very similar in phonetics, but not in meaning.
Saul never claimed to change his name, in fact he frequently used both names interchangeably. When the bible does reference the two names, they never claim a change of names. They claim that he uses both names.
This is a fairly common bit of biblical mythology. I'll add a similar line to the talk page of Persecution of Christians
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/no-saul-the-persecutor-did-not-become-paul-the-apostle/ ] (]) 14:31, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|PuckSR}} I don't have an opinion on the facts, but only noticed that your edit summary "Paul is just the Latinized version of Saul" is incorrect. The religious site you name doesn't come close to satisfying Misplaced Pages's requirements for a ]. However, the issue is peripheral to that particular article, so there is no need to resolve it there. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 22:23, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
::Ah, I see what you were saying.
::I meant "latinized" in the sense of an Anglicized name. As someone named Johoviak might anglicize their name to "John". I didnt mean to convey that it was a latin translation of the name. As for the source, I didn't think it needed to be a reliable source, as I wasn't making a positive assertions. Even the wikipedia entry to Paul https://en.wikipedia.org/Paul_the_Apostle#Names clarifies that this is a common misunderstanding that seems to have slipped into the Christian persecution text. ] (]) 20:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
* Following a ], the ] has been updated to note that while it is considered best practice for administrators to have ] (pings) enabled, this is not mandatory. Administrators who do not use notifications are now strongly encouraged to indicate this on their user page.
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== Page revert not appropriate ==
My comments on the talk page related to the article, not to the topic itself in general.
Furthermore, they cited key legal documents and provisions. Consideration of such documents and analysis were constructive criticism of the subject area I identified in the article, which were offered to improve the article.
Ultimately, we must be mindful that Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia that must tell the truth and be as factual as possible, even when, (and especially when) the truth and facts may not be popular.
You and other editors should not revert unless the edits are disruptive. Disruptive comments should not include those that are well supported by relevant legal documentation and analysis.
Actions to revert a page should require a strong showing and effectuated only with due consideration and restraint.
The talk page drives and shapes discourse relating to the article, which may lead to edits to improve the article. These improvements redound to the benefit of the public and of democracy itself.
Where as here, reverting talk on the page I made in good faith and which pertained to key issues relating to the article, stultifies discourse. Such actions lead to legitimate claims of censorship, which violates Misplaced Pages's policy.
You also failed to notify me that you reverted the page. The best policy is, if you have a concern, to discuss it with me first before taking action. If we have a disagreement, we can mutually agree to seek the opinion of a neutral third party.
I think such an approach respects both the process and the persons involved. ] (]) 03:23, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|Biolitblue}} I don't make the rules. ] is very clear on what non-ec editors like yourself are allowed to do, and your edit did not conform to those rules. If you want another opinion, ask a different administrator. There is a list ]. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 04:06, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
::The only requirement I can discern is that the editor's content on the Talk page must not be "disruptive."
::I interpret disruptive as gas lighting, pushing an agenda, offering evidence which is irrelevant or off-topic, or arguments that are logically spurious or unsourced.
::: You are only allowed to make edit requests. Article critique is not an edit request. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:52, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
::::I stated that "he legality section needs development and a higher location in the article." The only reasonable inference is that the documents and analysis furnished in the body of the talk was a proposed edit to further develop the legality section.
::::The legality section is paramount because it determines the respective rights and obligations of the respective parties not just in the Mandate, but over time. Where as here, summarily claiming that the legal aspects have been debated by scholars and then listing in footnotes sections of books where scholarly debate is purportedly found is insufficient. In fact, it comes across as subterfuge and a way to obviate the need for proper discussion.
::::As a policy of Misplaced Pages, Misplaced Pages has to be accessible to the average reader. A great majority of readers will not pick up these books at the library or purchase them, and the "scholarly" analysis might be too abstruse.
::::Without the editing requested, it is NOT ''']''': because it omits key aspects and documents pertaining to the legality of the Mandate. Along these same lines, it is not broad in its coverage and does not discuss all relevant aspects.
::::As it stands, with no disrespect intended to the author and other contributors, I disagree with this article's rating as a "good article." It is possible that if the legality section were more developed, the article could not only fulfill the requirements of a good article but could even become a feature article.
::::My proposed edits might be WP:NOR until others have had the opportunity to examine the documents, analysis, and conclusions. If the conclusions are rejected as WP:NOR upon review, then the sections and discrepancies in the documents could still be highlighted without violating the rule. Some other content dealing with the McMahon-Hussein correspondence does not violate the rule if I remove the conclusion and let the sources quotes speak for themselves. I have more quotes on the matter. ] (]) 15:59, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
== Nableezy ban ==
Hi. Not sure I was very helpful there. I wish I can be of some help. On a different level: what would really constitute friendly help here? Anyone who is so personally involved in this huge tragedy should be helped to take a break from it - in real life. Wiki comes next. Apparently being glued to the screens can produce more PTSD and depression than facing ''some'' of the horrible things happening there in person. If we don't manage to help him out of the ban, it might turn out to be a blessing in disguise. But then again, a) he must know it, and b) his editing, the stress involved, and the additional time it keeps him stuck in this unending hell is probably the least of his stress factors right now. Try to help him on a different level if you can, maybe ask Nishidani to write to him as well. It's far too much for me too. Thanks, ] (]) 23:02, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|Arminden}} It's not proper for me to advise you on how to handle this. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 06:53, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
::I wasn't asking for that. My focus was on Nableezy as a person rather than an editor. That is, if you have closer contact to him than I do. If not, I'm sorry I brought it up. ] (]) 13:23, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Sometimes, the best thing that we can do for ourselves is to step-away from the issues that put us at variance with our fellow editors (even if it is only for a short period). Personally speaking, for me, it was good to step-away from the Arab-Israeli conflict - because of its inherent contentious nature. Nableezy has shown understanding to my own shortcomings in the ARBPIA area, and he has volunteered to act as a mentor for me, even though we share different political views. There is something to be admired about his ability to give to his disputant the benefit of the doubt.] (]) 21:56, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – January 2024 ==
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== January 2024 ==
] Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of ], such as the edit(s) you made to ], did not appear to be constructive and have been ]. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our ]. You can find information about these at our ] which also provides further information about ]. If you only meant to make test edits, please use ] for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-disruptive1 --> ] (]) 11:50, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
: {{Re|Sakiv}} That's funny. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
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== Shomron studies ==
Do you think a 1986 article in ''Shomron Studies'' is reliable for claiming the ethnic history of people across Palestine? ''']''' - 17:19, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
: {{Re|Nableezy}} It's a hard question because I don't have the article in question. The author Grossman was a well-known demographer. What concerns me is the precision of the reports; the fact that a family or two has a tradition of coming from another place does not mean that the tradition is true, and it doesn't entitle us to write that the village population came from that other place. But it is hard to argue this without the source. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:53, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
::I can find the source cited elsewhere but have had no luck in finding the actual source. ''']''' - 05:19, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
::Grossman (2011), Rural Arab Demography and Early Jewish Settlement in Palestine: Distribution and Population Density During the Late Ottoman and Early Mandate Periods has stuff from the journal, idk if that could be used instead. ] (]) 10:16, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
::: I have that book and it could be useful for generalities, but it has little in the way of village by village details. I understand that the Hebrew edition was more expansive. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:31, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
::: I asked at ]. The chances are small. I'm willing to pay for this article but the only way I can find to get it is to start a subscription. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 02:26, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
== Rafida ==
Thank you very much :) ] (]) 17:19, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – March 2024 ==
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== Subject on recent edit of yours ==
On ] I created a talk page topic about a edit you reverted related to Kurds and Nuremberg laws ] (]) 05:44, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – April 2024 ==
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== False Accusation of Sockuppetry ==
I'm writing on behalf of the IP Server who started to edit at "British currency in the Middle East" on 29th March this year. The editor suddenly found the IP server range blocked, while being accused of being a blocked editor called TheCurrencyGuy. The editor at the IP server categorically denies being TheCurrencyGuy, doesn't know TheCurrencyGuy, and has never interacted with him. Meanwhile, a editor called JMF has been on the talk page at "British currency in the Middle East" stating that at least some of the recent edits were definitely done by TheCurrencyGuy. Well, so he says, but not one of the edits carried out by the blocked IP server since 29th March was done by TheCurrencyGuy, and it doesn't appear that anybody else edited during that period. It would be interesting to see what JMF's evidence is, but meanwhile he has reverted all the hard work and careful research that was carried out since 29th March. The article is now in an inferior state with many factual inaccuracies that had been corrected by the blocked IP server. ] (]) 09:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
: JMF's advice to get an account is what I would advise too. And the best way to avoid text being removed for being unsourced is to add sources at the same time as the text. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:54, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
An account cannot be created until it is acknowledged that the blocked IP server is not a sockpuppet of TheCurrencyGuy. Meanwhile, the editor using the blocked IP server categorically denies the accusation, and says that this is the only important issue at the moment. Can you please help to have the investigation re-visited. The blocked IP editor has checked the editing history of TheCurrencyGuy to see what the alleged similarities are, and has noted that TheCurrencyGuy began his editing days by correcting the format of a foreign currency on some article, and then over time did likewise with many other currency units, and his focus seemed to be on spelling and formatting. The blocked IP server would like to point out that this style has got nothing in common with matters relating to the history of currency in the Middle East. If you can get the IP server unblocked, then the editor will be able to discuss the matter with you directly. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::The IP server that was blocked at the same time as https://en.wikipedia.org/User:Jahor12345 is not connected. Both were editing simultaneously on different articles during the morning of 3rd April 2024. That was the session when you became involved on the talk page about the meaning of the word miri. The IP server began with detailed edits about the Egyptian pound, and then around noon, switched over to British currency in the Middle East. Meanwhile, editor Jahor12345 was editing across a wide range of currency topics, mainly reformatting. The editing styles are completely different. The IP server carried out edits at 1204hrs and 1206hrs, while Jahor12345 carried out an edit in the middle of that two minute period at 1205hrs. They couldn't possibly be the same person.] (]) 13:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
::: You are not convincing me, and anyway I do not have the authority to overrule the results of ]. I don't see the slightest reason why someone can't make an account if they want to edit. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
== Attribution ==
Please read ] on MondoWeiss: {{tq|Mondoweiss is a news website operated by the Center for Economic Research and Social Change (CERSC), an advocacy organization. There is no consensus on the reliability of Mondoweiss. Editors consider the site biased or opinionated, and '''its statements should be attributed'''. It should either not be used at all — or used with great caution — for biographies of living people.}} We need to attribute ''in text'' when we use it. Removing attribution, as you've done in a number of articles, goes against the community consensus. ] (]) 13:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
: {{Re|Bobfrombrockley}} It means that the authors of articles in MW should be attributed for their claims. It doesn't say "stuff in MW should be attributed to MW", it says that statements in MW "should be ]", which ''always'' means that opinions or claims should be attributed to whoever is giving the opinion or making the claim (note the meaning of "attributed" in the link). The only time it implies that MW as a magazine should be attributed for something is when the article at hand is when MW itself is the author (e.g. an editorial). Also, if MW was to be attributed it would have to be like "according to MW", which is not what you have been writing — what you have been writing is not an attribution at all per WP jargon but rather a part of the citation placed in the text against usual practice. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 13:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for the quick reply. I might take this to another forum as I had never understood it in this way so would welcome clarification. ] (]) 13:52, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
==]==
Hi {{ping|Zero0000}} Why did you put your comment half way up the discussion? '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 14:41, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
: Your signature is very annoying. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 15:01, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
== Do you even listen to what you're saying? ==
To someone who was killed in a "brief massacre", its "briefness" would not be the slightest mitigating factor. My recommendation would be to avoid incongruous dimunitizing expressions such as "brief massacre", "slight temporary genocide", or "gentle rape" as arguments for your edits, whether to the Kfar Etzion massacre article or elsewhere on Misplaced Pages... ] (]) 21:12, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
: {{Re|AnonMoos}} Wow, my very own stupid personal attack. It's my lucky day. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 23:30, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
::Keep on searching the thesaurus for oxymoronic adjective-noun combinations like "non-violent murder" and "tiny little extermination campaign" all you want, but you won't be improving Misplaced Pages by doing so. ] (]) 00:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
::: Two kisses on the same day are enough. Now kindly improve my user page by pissing off. Go on, shoo. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:02, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
I replied on the Mandatory flag thread above (I also quickly got tired of that discussion in 2022, though there was more to say). ] (]) 11:14, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – May 2024 ==
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* Partial action blocks are now in effect on the English Misplaced Pages. This means that administrators have the ability to restrict users from certain actions, including uploading files, moving pages and files, creating new pages, and sending thanks. ]
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== Reverted Post ==
Hi. I see that you reverted my contribution to the page about antisemitism on Harvard’s campus after 2020. I'm aware of the extended confirmed restriction and contentious topics procedure regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict. My intention was not to post on that conflict but to report on important antisemitic incidents happening on college campuses, which I understood was the point of this page. I get that these protests are influenced, in part, by the Arab-Israeli conflict, but is there a way to acknowledge the catalyst while avoiding violating the extended confirmed restriction and contentious topics procedure relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict? Do you have any recommendations on how I can reword some of my content to un-revert it and restore it to the page? Thank you very much. ] (]) 18:55, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
:{{Re|HistoryBook123}} They aren't just "influenced" by the A-I conflict, they are part of it. Anyway the ARBPIA topic designation says "broadly interpreted" so there is really no doubt that the material is included. Your only option is to put an edit proposal on the talk page. I didn't make the rules and if I don't enforce them for sure someone else will. Your edit also contained opinion written in wikivoice so it wouldn't have lasted long even if you had the required credentials. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 04:46, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
== False Accusation of Sockpuppetry ==
Regarding the blocked IP server that I used in April to make edits at British currency in the Middle East, I've opened up this special account in order to help resolve the situation. I can't edit again util the administrator who blocked my address revisits the original investigation. But even with this special account, I still can't seem to be able to edit on their talk page. I appreciate that you yourself don't have the authority to over rule that result, but I'd be grateful if you could contact Bbb23 on my behalf and ask them if they could take a look at the evidence again. I can assure you that I am definitely not TheCurrencyGuy. I've looked at his edits. His style and purpose was quite different from mine, and besides I did show you evidence last month that we were both editing at the exact same time on different articles. I'd be most grateful if you could help. ] (]) 08:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
:: I've put the message like this, but I seem to have formatted it wrongly. Can you please help me to format it and I'll post it again,
<nowiki>{{To|Bbb23}}I'd be grateful if you could contact me here regarding a block on my IP server which you did on 12th April. Somebody alleged that I am a sockpuppet of an editor called TheCurrencyGuy. I am assuredly not however. The accusation involved another editor with a name something like Jahor12345 who was also blocked for being a sockpuppet of TheCurencyGuy. I have no idea whether they were or not, but I did find evidence that Jahor12345 was editing at exactly the same time as me on different articles. The only thing we seem to have in common is the fact that we were editing on currency related articles, but not with the same style or purpose. I look forward to hearing from you.~~~~</nowiki>
] (]) 08:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
It doesn't appear that the blocking administrator is going to reply. Is there some kind of notice board that I can go to in order to highlight this issue? I think it's quite important. I was editing in good faith and suddenly blocked, just because I happened to be editing on currency related articles and because there is a blocked editor called TheCurrencyGuy. But there is something very seriously wrong when those involved aren't open to discussing the evidence. The blocking administrator must know fine well that the IP servers don't match. ] (]) 12:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
: You can write at ] but it's possible nobody will be interested, as are there are currently no sanctions against your account. You'll need to explain everything with diffs and not assume that anyone is aware of it. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 14:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks again. I'll maybe do that. Although there are no sanctions against this account, it's still impossible for me to edit on the Middle East currency articles that I had been editing on with the IP server, because I would be immediately blocked again, based on the belief of Bbb23 that I am a sockpuppet of TheCurrencyGuy. Until that belief has been officially debunked by, either Bbb23, or by some other administrator, I will have no future in the project. This began in March when I was studying the schism between the Egyptian piastre and the Turkish piastre in 1844. I had obtained books on the topic and I also referred to the relevant Misplaced Pages articles. These articles were quite useful, but it was clear that they contained many inaccuracies. I set about correcting the information in these articles and I thought I had got them into a much more accurate state. I was nearly finished, and about to make an edit relating to the Saudi Riyal when suddenly I found myself blocked, having been accused of abusively indulging in sockpuppetry. And soon after that, another editor wiped out every single bit of work that I had done, expressly stating that the reason wasn't based on the content on the edits, but on the grounds that he believed me to be a sockpuppet of TheCurrencyGuy. It's turned me pretty sour about the project, but I'm still holding out hope that there must surely be some administrator who can check out that my IP server was different from TheCurrencyGuy's, and that likely we are in totally different geographical locations, and that the entire focus of our edits is quite different, and that at one point we were editing on different articles at exactly the same time. There is something seriously wrong with the system if this cannot be ascertained, and that people simply get blocked because they edit on an article that is of interest to another editor who has been blocked.] (]) 18:50, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
== Misandry noticeboard discussion ==
Hey Zero, please give me your input on the Misandry discussion. I just can't keep arguing with these people anymore. It feels like we need a way bigger team of admins involved. Someone just told me "admins don't have any special authority in content disputes." ] (]) 14:40, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
== request to Strike your Comment in the infada talk page. ==
can you please strike booth the non ECR comment as well as your response in the Talk page?
when you leave it this way it seams like you care more about "winning" wikipedia and getting your pov heard then to actually Resolve the content dispute
thank in advance. ] (]) 13:56, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
: Certainly not. First, it is only permitted to remove edit summaries under very limited circumstances and this is not one of them. Second, as you well know, you are limited to edit requests and your other comments are not permitted. I didn't make the rules, but I am allowed to enforce them. So, whatever "dispute" is happening there, you are not a party to it. You can always make yourself an account and work up to EC if you want to participate. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 22:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
==Thanks==
==Thanks==
Thanks for your help with navigating the stages to appeal the block. I think the matter has now been resolved. It seems that TheCurrencyGuy is geographically close to me and that contributed towards the suspicion. I may or may not return to editing, but if I do, I will either use the IP server again or create another account with a more suitable username. ] (]) 10:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
For dealing with that so quickly. I'm not even going to bother responding, since I have a feeling the whole exercise is just a way of diluting energies and trying to get a rise of people. Long ago, I might have taken the bait. But I have learned a lot over the past couple of years here. Anyway, thanks for being on the ball. ]<sup>]</sup> 12:18, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
==Notice of reliable sources noticeboard discussion==
] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is ].<!--Template:RSN-notice--> Thank you. I am informing you because you have commented on a ]. <span class="nowrap">] (]) <small>(please ] me on reply)</small></span> 02:25, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
==This is what it was all about==
Since you helped me to get the project back on track again, see my user page to understand what it was all about https://en.wikipedia.org/User:Specialrequestaccount ] (]) 16:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
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== Peel secret testimony ==
There are some transcripts in Law and the Arab-Israeli Conflict The Trials of Palestine Steven E. von Zipperstein if you haven't seen those. ] (]) 15:34, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
: Thanks, I just got that book yesterday but hadn't looked at it yet. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – July 2024 ==
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== Shebaa ==
Is https://unifil.unmissions.org/sites/default/files/unifilpresskit.pdf (the section Shab'a Farms on p.6) in accord with your understanding of the current position?
Anyway it does say "With the UN having placed the Shebaa Farms area south of the Blue Line at the time the line was established, Israel considers them part of the Golan, rather than Lebanon. Hence, it would only negotiate with Syria, and address the issue in Syrian-Israeli peace talks on the Golan." Salud. ] (]) 11:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
: {{Re|Selfstudier}} Yes, that's my understanding. Is it contrary to what I wrote in the article? ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 11:21, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::No, not at all, was just checking that it was still current, apart from that, I saw you said you wanted a later source for the Israeli position, will it do? ] (]) 11:23, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
::: {{Re|Selfstudier}} Right, good point. I'll add it. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
== Elizabeth Loftus Page ==
Hi Zero, just wanted to chat about this page. By way of intro, I'm a clinical psychologist with 30 years experience. I would respectfully suggest that to not include this account, reported in great detail by The New Yorker from interviewing Loftus, would leave this page incomplete and lacking encyclopaedic credibility. For those of us in the profession this revelation changed everything about Loftus's position. It was quite incredible that she herself gave one of the best examples of not remembering and then recalling a traumatic memory.
Her word for word quote “the memory flew out at me, out of the blackness of the past, hitting me full force” is a clear and classic account of recovering a repressed memory - you don't get better . All a repressed traumatic memory is is a memory that was not remembered for a period of time and then it is when it is triggered - it's not a complex psychological concept. I'm happy to work with you on wording you're comfortable with as a full account is more important than the wording. I did try to rely on attributed quotes rather than use my own words. You might like to discuss with a friendly psychologist. Cheers Penny ] (]) 22:35, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
: {{Re|Pennylewis}} You need to read the whole source. {{tq|"But Loftus never forgot what happened. She had shared the memory with Geoff shortly after they married. “It wasn’t ‘Oh, my God, I was abused,’” he said. “It was more like ‘What’s more, I myself was abused.’"}} It is not for us to interpret the source according to what we would like it to mean. The source does not say that she had repressed the incident from her childhood until it suddenly came out in a courtroom, so we aren't allowed to say that either per ]. Nobody except Loftus herself can say that, and per ] it doesn't make a difference what your expertise is, sorry. Yes, I know that people who dispute Loftus' views would just love it if she proved herself wrong, but that's something to argue in professional venues, not here. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:34, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::I have to admit, with some chagrin, that I did not see that para of her not forgetting it. A colleague sent me the part that I shared and I guess I assumed that there was little point to highlighting it if she had remembered it all along! Sucked in by the journalistic sensationalism. Should have read the entire article in detail. I am embarrassed and am grateful that you very graciously dealt with my error here. With due respect to you. ] (]) 07:28, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
== Help with Harvnb refs ==
Hey, do you know how to fix this problem?: https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Help_desk#Help_with_Harvnb_refs ] (]) 21:18, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Supreme Deliciousness}} I have just now fixed it for you.] (]) 01:47, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
==Arbitration notice==
You are involved in a recently filed request for clarification or amendment from the Arbitration Committee. Please review the request at ] and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the ] may be of use.
Thanks,<!-- Template:Arbitration CA notice -->
— ] <sub>]</sub> 17:54, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
== Revert at ] ==
{{hidden archive top|Moved to ]}}
What was all about? Are you saying that the phrase was in use throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, for a total of 200 years? ] (]) 13:31, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
: {{Re|The Mountain of Eden}} Your version says "late 19th and early 20th centuries". The paragraph immediately following gives an 1843 example, which is not late 19th century, so "late 19th" is wrong. Even earlier examples are known (I should add them). As to when it stopped being used, that isn't specified. I know of examples from the 1980s and 1990s, which admittedly are not in the article yet. I'm open to another wording, but you are mistaken in thinking that "during" means "throughout". It doesn't. Incidentally, exchanges like this should go on the article talk page so they aren't lost. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 13:57, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
{{hidden archive bottom}}
== Source ==
Hey, do you have access to this source? https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/yearbook-of-international-humanitarian-law/article/abs/changing-the-landscape-israels-gross-violations-of-international-law-in-the-occupied-syrian-golan/149F5F3EBF6612F469AFB4ABBF2C2820#access-block ] (]) 01:47, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
: {{Re|Supreme Deliciousness}} Yes. I can give it to you if you send me mail. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:51, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
::You have mail. --] (]) 01:54, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:::One more? https://www.jstor.org/stable/2537689 --] (]) 05:00, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
Hey, do you have access to these two?
https://brill.com/display/title/172
https://www.academia.edu/89471324/Herods_Judaea
--] (]) 06:35, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
== Can I mark resolved ==
:{{Re|Supreme Deliciousness}} You can read the first one in the . Most Brill works are there. See email in 5 mins about the second one. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 06:52, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Hi Zero - can I mark ] as resolved for now - in the knowledge that a final warning has been delivered?--] <sup>]</sup> 12:34, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
: Sure, thanks for your help. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:59, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
::Cheers and thanks back Zero.--] <sup>]</sup> 22:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – September 2024 ==
== ] ==
] from the past month (August 2024).
Hi, I´m sort of trying to clean up the depop-1948-villages. I see that you have edited the ]-article. Now, there were at least two Abu Shusha-villages; in the Districts of Ramlah and in the District of Haifa (plus there was a "Ghuwayr Abu Shusha" in District of Tiberias).
<div style="display: flex; flex-wrap: wrap">
Presently, it looks as if some of the stuff now in the Abu Shusha (Ramleh)..should be in a -not yet written- Abu Shusha (Haifa)-article. Would you care to take a look? Thanks, ] (]) 06:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
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] '''Administrator changes'''
: The material sourced to Flapan is clearly referring to Abu Shusha (Haifa). Is there anything else you suspect? I have something on the destruction of Abu Shusha (Ramle); it was in 1965. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 08:46, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
:] ]
] '''Interface administrator changes'''
::well, the Benvenisti, 1996, quote is to "the village of Abu Shusha, midway between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem"...so I assume that is the District of Ramleh-village. It actually looks as if there was some sort of massacre at both villages? ] (])
:] ]
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::No, it looks to me that all the text about a massacre is for the Ramle village. That includes Morris ''Revisited'', which I just checked. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:05, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
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]
:::Ok, it seems as if the Abu Shusha (Haifa) was depopulated quite early, during ], while ] (Ramleh) was depopulated in ]. Also during the socalled ] there were reports of atrocities (including rape), however, apparently not at the mass-scale of ] (Ramleh).
:::So, for ], I will just remove the Flapan-ref (and keep it for the future Abu Shusha, Haifa, article), If you could add anything on the 1965-destruction, it would be great. Cheers, ] (]) 10:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
:::: I just removed Flapan and added 1965. Next I'll add 19th century stuff from Kark. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for excellent work on the ] -article! Cheers, ] (]) 09:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
] '''Oversighter changes'''
== "Ultra-Orthodox" in Haredi article (courtesy note) ==
:] ]
] '''CheckUser changes'''
You contributed to a ] about the term "Ultra-Orthodox" on the ] page. I removed the content in ] that claimed that "Ultra-Orthodox" is pejorative. I have explained my reasons on the ]. ]<sup>]</sup> 15:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
:] {{hlist|class=inline
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== Civility, please ==
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] '''Guideline and policy news'''
With all due respect, please try to keep comments ]. I assume it was not your intention, but I take a comment like to be uncivil and condescending. Please take a look at the ] and, in particular, the policy to keep your comments ]. ]<sup>]</sup> 13:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
* Following an ], there is a new ]: ], which {{tq|applies to unused maintenance categories, such as empty dated maintenance categories for dates in the past}}.
: Sorry, but I think you are too sensitive. I don't think that "not good enough" is either uncivil or condescending. It is merely my opinion stated in simple terms. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 14:05, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
* A ] is open to discuss whether ] should be adopted as a ].
] '''Arbitration'''
== Another welcome ==
* Following a ], ] (the topic and interaction bans on ], respectively) were repealed.
* ] of the ] ("{{noping|Cinderella157}} German history topic ban") was ] for a period of six months.
* The arbitration case ] is currently open. Proposed decision is expected by 3 September 2024 for this case.
] '''Miscellaneous'''
Though I see it was a few months ago, just noticed now as I'm not that active in Israeli-Palestine articles as before. Not sure if you're aware or not of some good news, but if not, in your absence one of the ] in many of our sides was finally ]. ] (]) 23:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
* Editors can now enter into ], an alternative for informal '']'' arrangements, to have a ] reviewed in return for reviewing a different editor's nomination.
* A ] is happening in September 2024 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the ]. Currently, there is a backlog of over 13,900 articles and 26,200 redirects awaiting review. ]
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== Edit warring warning ==
== Palestinian ==
]
Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly{{#if:Efraim Karsh|, as you are doing at ]}}. If you continue, you may be ] from editing Misplaced Pages. Note that the ] prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for ], even if they do not technically violate the ]. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you.<!-- Template:3RR --> ] (]) 11:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Think you meant Palestinian ] (]) 11:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Ugh! This guy really loves templating regulars. Did it to me too.
: Ooops, thinks, thanks. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 11:08, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Anyway, I came here to say thanks for the link to the map and for the compliments on the work Huldra and I have been doing over at ]. Petersen says that the village wasn't mentioned much in medieval or Ottoman times either because it was too small or was uninhabited then. I added that tidbit to the article from Huldra's sources page. I'm putting it up for DYK soon (as soon as I can Huldra's opinion on the hook). Thanks again for your tips and encouragement. Happy editing. ]<sup>]</sup> 11:44, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
== JVL is not a reliable source? ==
::Thanks for that. I'll look it up and include it right away. ]<sup>]</sup> 15:09, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
Could you clarify why you consider the Jewish Virtual Library an unreliable source? I used it to provide context to Rabbi Shlomo Goren’s military service, and the information I referenced is sourced from the Encyclopedia Britannica. Please explain your reasoning for labeling it as unreliable. Best regards. ] (]) 14:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
The reviews of Karsh's book are NOT from an "anonymous unsourced" source. The page is linked to on Karsh's university website. He is the head of the ME program at Kings College London, a prestigious university. If the reviews were not authentic, he obviously would be in massive trouble. Stop the edit war. Of course Karsh puts positive reviews on his page at his school.] (]) 04:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:See their entry at https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources, the community has designated it as generally unreliable. ] (]) 15:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
: A document with no stated author is "anonymous". And one that doesn't state the source of the material it contains is "unsourced". Please learn some English. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 04:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:{{Re|MeirKovner}} As Selfstudier wrote, JVL has been judged unreliable by consensus. However, if JVL cites information to some reliable source you can cite that source. But you have to examine the reliable source yourself; you can't just take JVL's word that the information is there. I have seen JVL cite some source but when I went to that source I found that the information wasn't there at all. It's things like this that make JVL unreliable. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 22:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
::The source is clearly stated in the document with the name of the reviewer, who he works for. And you're the one throwing personal insults as me. And you're threatening ME on this site] (]) 05:56, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:::A source means a precise location of where the original of something can be found. Like a publication date for a newspaper or volume and page numbers for a journal. Sources have to be ], that's why we need to know where something comes from. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 06:14, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Karsh's link clearly shows the source. If you think he's lying, why don't you email him or ask him somehow. If he were lying or making it up, he'd have been in trouble right now or sued for putting a name to something that didn't happen. Professors at top universities don't make up reviews and there is no proof Karsh did. Also, the book did come out many years ago before articles were more routine on the internet.] (]) 06:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
::::: What sort of source is "Shabtai Teveth, ''Sefarim''", for example? That's partial information at best. Can I ask my library to get me the full text on the basis of that? And, yes, Karsh does invent praise. I'll put an example on his Talk page shortly. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 06:36, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::What are you talking about? His source is clearly "Yoram Bronowski, Ha-aretz." You're throwing accusations because you have a clear political agenda and are trying to push a POV to delete anything good said about someone who isn't pro-Palestinian, even tho you cannot prove Karsh just made the praise up! This is non-sense! All the praise is on the page he links to on his college website. You've just made up an accusation, libelous against Efraim Karsh! Shabtai Teveth is the official Ben Gurion biographer. People who you don't agree with praise pro-palestinian authors all the time. I fail to see any point you make. Remember, not everything ever written, published, etc. is on the internet.] (]) 06:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: "Yoram Bronowski, Ha-aretz" is not a source. It is only a rough indication of a source. Please read ] for what a citation should include. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 07:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::::: Zero you full know that sourcing on Misplaced Pages has obviously different standards than in a simple paper with reviews Karsh puts up, which DOES cite the people who said it and where they did, given that Karsh, employed by a top university in the UK, can be assumed to not be making up quotes or he'd be accused, fired, or sued given that perhaps someone in that paper would see their name and say something.] (]) 08:06, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::::: Karsh did distort quotes, was accused, and was not fired. But what I think of him is not relevant. We have to follow the Misplaced Pages rules about self-published sources. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 08:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::: The Benny Morris quote was to make a point, as you can find Karsh further responded to Morris' response. And in that site thats on Karsh's wikipedia page, the quotes on the praise part are acceptable and completely in context, as you can read them. His site is an acceptable secondary source. Sources that use them are on wikipedia all the time. Why should Karsh be the exception. If the quotes were fake, he'd have been in trouble with his college he works at. I don't see you complaining wikipedia pages about anti-Israel people where sources are secondary sources or use them. That is why I do believe you have an agenda. I doubt you'd be doing this if the situation were reversed, say about Edward Said.] (]) 08:40, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
==Hi. You reverted my edit on Protocols of the Elders of Zion==
== DeirYassinWiki.jpg ==
You said it doesn't mention communist monarchy. I read the text. I know it's likely a forgery and even if it wasn't, I support some of the things in the text. I woudn't mind a communist monarchy. But the text clearly supports it. It mentions a Jewish king and the support for ]. I personally support a ] for ]. Do you care to explain how my edits were incorrect? ] (]) 14:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
As I guess according to your name at 'DeirYassinWiki.jpg' map what I've found there was such Wiki's file. Can you please add details about what happened with it? Thanks, - ] (]) 22:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
:{{Re|Nashhinton}} I have also read it, along with many commentaries. Most translations don't mention communism by name. But our opinions are irrelevant because in Misplaced Pages we report what reliable sources say about the topic and nothing else. The sourcing standard in this article is intentionally very strict because of the huge amount of crap written on the subject. Also, the lead is supposed to be a summary of the body of an article, so it is not the place to put new material. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 15:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
: The file is still there at the link you give. I don't understand your question, sorry. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:10, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:: Itwasn'tavailableatthatmoment.Therewas some kindoferrormessage,butIalreadydonotrememberit.- ] (]) 22:57, 12August2009 (UTC)
::Are there different versions of protocols of elders of zion? Like, do some versions add and make up stuff that wasn't in the original text? ] (]) 15:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{Re|Nashhinton}} There are multiple early Russian versions with large and small differences between them, and multiple translations (and translations of translations) with different degrees of fidelity. Some "translations" are not really translations at all but more like running commentaries. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 23:31, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
== ohplease ==
== Return Lebanese Military Map ==
One reason why the Shebaa Farms entry is such a mess is that the Lebanese military map from 1966, which was uploaded to wikipedia more than five years ago, was deleted entirely.
no, you're not gonna get me banned. I don't push POV. If you actually read what morris said in the article, he refers to Plan D, which is what Ramla and Lydda were all about, which as you know, the purpose of which was to secure the route. Ok I should have quoted more carefully but this reason for the expulsions as given is well known. I am not POV pushing. You are the one who does that deleting anything you don't like, deleting sourced material and calling it "lies" like you did on the causes of exodus page and with the Palestine Studies citation even when you cannot prove it is wrong. Not everything cited in Peters is a "lie." Unless of course then others can delete things cited in pappe, who is more "discredited." You cannot prove I didn't consult the source from JPS I cited either. But then again, I could easily accuse you of citing things that you haven't read. This is a two-way street tho. And you delete things like you did with the Issa quote because you don't want to see them.
You're also the one who kept deleting sourced and quoted material from Efraim Karsh's page.
] (]) 05:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
As you know, I put that map on the Golan Heights page. In return, not only was the map was deleted from the Golan entry, it was deleted from the Shebaa Farms entry and from Misplaced Pages itself.
== For your contribution and involvement in ==
Editing the article ] subsection on
It was quickly deleted on the grounds that it was "redundant", after you argued to keep it.
==Censorship of "Little Eichmann's" Sub-Section==
The section on the reference to "Little Eichmann's" adds value to the Eichmann article and is entirely pertinent to scholastic research of the analysis of Eichmann's life; although details of Ward Churchill's story are a digression and not pertinent. Churchill's reference has not only become a modern colloquialism, it is based on Arendt's analysis of Eichmann's life. ZERO0000's basis to remove this sub-section as "not pertinent in its entirety" is censorship which expresses his/her POV. Removing extraneous information about Churchill's story should not be considered censorship, neither should demoting the sub-section to another paragraph in the Analysis section (i.e. removing the header). In conclusion, just because an editor doesn't like Ward Churchill's reference doesn't mean everybody reading about the analysis of Eichmann's life should be deprived of this valuable cross-reference.
] (]) 10:05, 15 August 2009 (UTC)Tenna
: The Ward Churchill story absolutely does not belong there. It is an article about Eichmann, not about random uses of Eichmann's name. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 09:57, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
: First of all, I prefer not to use the word "absolutely". Ward Churchill's reference is not random. As I asserted before, it's based on Arendt's analysis itself. It also provides valuable scholastic cross-reference to anybody looking at what his life means to the definition of "banality of evil".
] (]) 10:05, 15 August 2009 (UTC)Tenna
: Zero you should provide what "every random reference to Eichmann's name" means when you execute your Dranconian edits. In fact this likely the only reference to his name used in modern speeches, and was provided by a professor who was citing Arendt's analysis in the first place. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:09, 15 August 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Zero - we can agree to compromise if you insist on demoting this sub-section by either folding it into the Analysis section or adding a link in the More section.--] (]) 10:16, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
: No, I don't think it belongs at all. But this is the wrong place to discuss it. State your case on ] then if you get enough support from other editors something can be inserted. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:26, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
: Your approach is lacks any explanation, is uninterested in compromise, censuring, and untenable. Neither you nor your other editor friends own this page, nor any others on the wiki. I am going to apply the compromise I stated and re-state my case on the talk page. Have a nice day.--] (]) 16:15, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
I have instituted a deletion review. But clearly I'm at a disadvantage here by not knowing all the ins and outs of complex wikipedia protocols.
== BLP ==
You seem to want to tell the documented truth, rather than allow hand-waving falsehoods such as that "Syria accepts that the territory is Lebanese" when you know the history is far more complex than that. (Both Lebanon and Syria said the territory was Syria for decades and even today, Assad will not say it is Lebanese territory. That map is critical to showing that the entry on Shebaa Farms implying Syria always accepted it as Lebanese territory is simply not accurate)
Please review ]; properly sourced criticism is NOT a BLP violation, and there has been discussion on the talk page at ] about how to best handle this, and these TWO SENTENCES were considered appropriate by all editors. Please respect wikipedia's policies. Using BLP to improperly remove properly sourced edits is a form of ]. -- ] (]) 02:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
:That is incorrect, Zero. We cannot take Khalidi's defense as fact any more than we can take the initial attribution as fact. The facts are that 1) For years it was attributed to Khalidi and 2) after this was made public, the attribution was changed and explained as an error. Guess what, that is ALL the article says, just facts, no opinions, and no making one interpretation of the facts any more "true" than any other. Our job is to bring the facts, let the reader decide the interpretation, Zero. -- ] (]) 02:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
::Rubbish, you can't hint that a well-known scholar is a liar without any evidence, and the evidence in this case is ''pathetic''. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
:::No one is hinting anything, Zero. We bring what is there, and let individuals decide. I know I don't know enough to decide one way or the other; but that does not mean that we can just summarily ignore it. HHN is not blogspot, Zero, and if it was serious enough for Khalidi to respond to, we should mention it; not make it its own section, not glorify it, but mention it, as plagiarism IS a notable claim against an academic: just look at ] :) . -- ] (]) 03:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Oh phooey. You don't like him and you want to publicise accusations against him no matter how stupid they are. Simple as that. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:49, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, that is not true; I don't know him at all, and neither like nor dislike him, Zero. What I /do/ dislike is inappropriate hagiographic or denigratory editing. Your above statement is unfortunately indicative of editing that is not in accord with wikipedia policies and guidelines; besides for needing to focus on content and not editors (WP:CIVIL is just as strong a policy as WP:BLP), outside of your own opinions, you have no basis in fact to base your statements. I suggest you contact ], ], ], or ], and ask them about how I handle I/P articles. Perhaps you are guilty of ], perhaps you are just overly frustrated. Regardless, I am going to neither ask for nor expect an apology from you for your unfounded personal accusation. However, I will remind you that such edits do indicate from whence ''you'' approach these topics, and you should take a few steps back and strongly consider if your methods are appropriate for wikipedia. -- ] (]) 03:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. I may very well be wrong, which is why we have talk pages, WT:BLP, and RfC's just to name a few methods. This has been discussed on the talk page, and is being done again there. Let us see if a new consensus emerges. -- ] (]) 04:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Could you please find the deletion review -- which I have not yet found even though I instituted it -- or begin one of your own to get that map back?
== RE:Deleting bogus articles ==
ThanksZero0000. I'mnotexactlysureIunderstandyouthough. Do you havetheability to deletearticles?Ordoyoumeanyou'llnominatethem for speedy deletion? --] (]) 04:32, 19August2009 (UTC)
Otherwise all I know how to do is send this entire thing to arbitration, because people are using wikiprocedures to bury me.] (]) 21:22, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
::(ec)Wow, do I feel ignorant. I haven't had enough contact with you and didn't see one of those wiki-globes on your user page to know if you were an admin, let alone a veteran. Anyway, I own the Khalidi and Abu-Sitta books so I have a good index to refer to also. I hope that was the only bogus village present. We should continue work on the 1948 villages very soon; if Huldra is really leaving, that means we have to take on an additional work load. Happy editing Zero0000, Cheers! --] (]) 04:49, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
:Technically, ]es are generally ''not'' speedies. See ] and ]. Most of the time they must go through AfD, as frustrating as that is. -- ] (]) 04:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
::Damn... so do we have to restore the article and nominate it again? I need to get more involved with the admin tasks to familiarize with them. Thanks for pointing that out Avi. --] (]) 04:52, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't think so in this case; but in general, it's good to be aware, as some hoaxes are'nt, and regardless, the last thing any admin wants is to be dragged to DRV/ANI with the accusation of "abuse of privilege". -- ] (]) 04:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Of course. Thanks for your help. --] (]) 04:59, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::My pleasure. -- ] (]) 05:03, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::: Avi is right, though I'd class this particular example as vandalism. ] includes "blatant hoaxes" and "obvious misinformation" as vandalism for CSD purposes. But we need to consider any cases that come up on their merits, and proceed cautiously. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 05:16, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah somebody added it to the infobox and it went undetected before. Scary really. Lucky I found it!]</span> <sup>]</sup> 13:11, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
:{{Re|GreekParadise}} I see that you rediscovered the deletion review at ]. A quick way would have been to check your own contribs. I'll look at it. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 03:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
::I did rediscover it. Thank you.] (]) 14:24, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
<span style="font-size:32px; line-height:1em">''']'''</span> Thanks for uploading ''']'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a ]. However, the image is currently ], meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. ] if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see ]).
:::And thank you for your contribution on the map deletion review page. I really do appreciate it. I do recognize you are acting in good faith, even if we disagree on the proper use of some of the sources. I just want to accurately reflect them.
:::The UN found the territory to be Lebanese for a good reason, and both Lebanon and Syria have had conflicting positions over the years. I want those positions to be reflected in the article in all their confusing complexity rather than a blanket statement one way or the other which would be simple but inaccurate. And if you can ever find a clear single public statement by the Syrian government actually saying it's Lebanese territory, I would readjust my view on this. Have you ever found one?
:::<nowiki>To me, the lack of a Syrian public statement is telling, as is the Syrian refusal of the repeated UN requests to demarcate the boundaries. A Syrian official privately told the UN one thing in 2000 while Assad privately said the opposite in 2011. To me, the implication is that Syrian doesn't want to have a public position (that they want to keep the land as Syrian but while Israel occupies it, they can suggest in private but not say in public it's Lebanese territory). Obviously we can't say that. We can only state their position before 2000 that it was Syrian and then state the private indicators and private counter-indicators of their contradictory positions thereafter. It's fine to state the UN said a Syrian official said this and a diplomat said Assad said that while we should also note there does not appear to be a clear Syrian position publicly stated by the Syrian government.~~~</nowiki> ] (]) 17:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
::::There was a recent discussion and subsequent editing about this at https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Israel%E2%80%93Hezbollah_conflict_(2023%E2%80%93present)/Archive_1#Israel's_alleged_occupation_of_Lebanon ] (]) 17:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – October 2024 ==
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of "file" pages you have edited by clicking on the "]" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described on ]. Thank you. <!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice -->] (]) 10:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
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== Talkback ==
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== I don't suppose I'm denied the right to comment on the etymology of Jerusalem? ==
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I'm glad you noted that this is pathetically ill-informed.
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I have several times, in the archives, suggested an improvement to the etymology section, which is both ignorant and POV. I laid out a provisory draft before my perma-ban. It ain't much chop, since it simplifies a complex issue, but it does fulfil the minimal requirements, which the section at the moment does not, for writing to encyclopedic levels. A corresponding edit is required to fix ], which is organized on a false and misleading chronology that prioritizes later infra-hebraic etymologies over the historically earlier, more broadly semitic hypotheses related to the Egyptian evidence, and comparative cultic theonyms in Ugaritic and Akkadian.
*] are a proposed new process for selecting administrators, offering an alternative to ] (RfA). The first trial election will take place in October 2024, with ] from October 8 to 14, a ] from October 22 to 24, and ] from October 25 to 31. For questions or to help out, please visit the talk page at ].
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] '''Arbitration'''
You can find my last suggestion . I think you yourself did something similar back in 2006?
* The arbitration case '']'' has been closed.
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Regards ] (]) 09:16, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
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::I can't recall with precision when I read your suggestion. I do recall trying to find it while composing my own final suggestion, without success. I have a vague recall of coming across it after I'd made extensive notes, and thinking: 'Pointless to press on. Zero's already done it.'
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::I don't think I am allowed to actually edit, or even discuss these technical problems in the I/P area. I undertook not to edit the Jerusalem page before my perma-ban, and since this article is subject to high-wire tensions, obviously even a simple offer to set out the details (short for the Jerusalem page, lengthier for the 'Names of Jerusalem' page) can be taken as a provocation on my part, or an attempt to sneak back in.
* ]
::The material's there, in any case. The sourcing is of high quality, and you're in good stead here. So I look forward to seeing, in a month or two, a marked improvement on that section. The best structuring is one undertaken on the strictest historical lines, in chronological sequence. (1) Egyptian, (2)Amarna letters, and the roughly contemporary Assyrian and Hebrew 7th cent. refs, followed by a second para. dealing with the assimilation to 'shalom', and the folk etymologies which then proliferated. Best ] (]) 10:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
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== re Rachel Corrie ==
== Question ==
Re: , I'm working on the page ], and I would like to ask if you have any reccommendations of ] for this history? ] (]) 17:25, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
I have again reverted your edit; per ] we now discuss this matter until consensus is changed or reaffirmed. Reverting past the first time, and knowingly against consensus, is a violation of ] and may attract warnings and possibly sanctions. Of course I shall not be the party to do either, and this is only a notice that I suggest the matter is discussed with other editors before another revert takes place. ] (]) 14:31, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
:There has been a discussion at Talk:Rachel Corrie where it noted that none of the sources now note both the bombing and the Rachel Corrie memorial - so if you wish to remove the content would you please note this in your edit summary. ] (]) 18:48, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
== Invitation to participate in a research ==
== BLP ==
Hello Zero0000. A ] has been raised at the BLP noticeboard about talk page comments you have made regarding living persons, specifically .
Hello,
The subject is indeed a living person and you use a term that is an unsubstantiated slur. As admins, with significant editing experience, its very important we strictly adhere to ], which is perhaps our most important policy. Could I recommend you review ] and refactor that comment? I think you could make the same point without resorting to potentially libelous language. Thanks (and feel free to remove this note after consideration). ]<font color="black">e</font>] 06:14, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
:thought you might like to know this was started by a banned user's sockpuppet (NoCal100). See . <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 02:09, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</font></small>
::Yes I just noticed, thanks. Usually I don't pay attention to things like that, I just want to edit articles. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 02:27, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah me too, but I have been calling that user a sock from his first 100 edits so I was a bit anxious to be proven right. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 02:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC)</font></small>
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There is some new info from the State Department Digest of International Law on my talk page ] ] (]) 09:25, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
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I think certain currents of Islam have developed strong antisemitic doctrines, and think that should be documented in an article 'The rise of antisemitism in modern Islam. I note that the intensity of wiki pages dealing with this simply has no parallel in the ] articles. A lengthy list of vitriolic antisemitism spewing out from the lips of, to name but one Christian denomination, Catholic priests or eminent Catholics (or Anglo-Catholics like ], vide Christopher Ricks' book and the ensuing polemics) could be, in MEMRI fashion, run up and pasted into a wiki page, and that this is not done because making such pages would be considered politically counterproductive for one nation's interests. Thus, to name just a scant few candidates.
*]
*]
*]
*]
*Dennis Fahey
*] cf. Adam Gopnik's article in NYRB (2008)
*Bishop ]
*Ante Bakovic Croatian priest and editor of Narod, (1997)
*]'s personal confessor, Father ] (1995), the bloke who defended ]
*Father Gerard Burns (New Zealand)
*]
*Bishop ] of Sarajevo
*Bishop Aksamovic of Djakovic
*Bishop Brisgys
*Cardinal ]
*Cardinal Frings of Cologne
*Robert Sungenis (2002)
*Rev. Lawrence Lucas 1987
*]
Kind Regards,
You could, in a hour's reading, run up a similar list of statement of West Bank rabbis (Reuven Firestone speaks of 200) who have publicly come out, on various occasions, with violent abuse about Palestines as Amalekites, in halakhic law, people to be exterminated. (In fact I have one, but I wouldn't make a wiki article out of it) This is why such articles require intelligent non-partisan care. They are framed egregiously to press a political point, and only underscore how, in that area, ] is operating. Regards ] (]) 17:30, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
]
== Auschwitz bombing article ==
<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">] (]) 19:21, 23 October 2024 (UTC) </bdi>
I almost daren't look at it. I think it may have started with material that was moved from elsewhere, and then I got fed up with it. Feel free (at least as far as I'm concerned) to put anything useful something else and redirect it, if you think it best. <font color="green">]</font> <small><sup><font color="red">]</font><font color="pink">]</font></sup></small> 18:42, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
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Hi Zero0000! A couple things:
*Just a note, I am not accusing you of anything. The AN/I notice is that a media article has accused you of violating Misplaced Pages guidelines, and this media article was mentioned at AN/I. '''The ]''' (] 04:28, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
:1. I left a reply for your specifically on the Lydda/Ramla page, but since it's a personal discussion unrelated to the topic, I'd like to continue it on user talk:
== Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion ==
::About the comparison to Lorch; whatever you may think of the "traditional view" (which has not been discredited), you can't deny the immense contributions that Lorch and the people who followed him in the IDF history department, made for the understanding of the conflict. Not only did they write the first histories, demarcate when the wars started and ended, etc., but they also created the IDF archive, which was later the main source of the writings for Kadish, Morris, Tal, and other later historians. Mordechai Bar-On, also head of the department in the past, wrote a book about their work for the department, it's quite fascinating how much they did. These people, and only them, had the unique chance of full access to all the documents, as well as credible eyewitness testimonies from the same years of the events. I don't understand why anyone would discredit their work, and indeed, it has not been discredited as you say.
An uninvolved administrator has suggested possible sanctions for your participation on the ] article at the Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard. The thread is ]. ] (]) 16:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
:2. You are fluent in Hebrew, correct? If you want to help with the article, please take the time to read the original materials manually typed by me at ]. You might find interesting stuff that I missed. In general, I believe the article to be in bad shape in terms of balance, but SlimVirgin stated that she would cut down on the quotes from Arab eyewitnesses, which would help quite a bit. I would especially like to insert something from Yitzhak Tishler's book, which is a most fascinating Israeli eyewitness account.
== Administrators' newsletter – November 2024 ==
Cheers, —] <sup>(])</sup> 11:54, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
] from the past month (October 2024).
:: Actually I know only the most basic Hebrew and cannot read anything serious like a newspaper or book. Unfortunately. And I haven't looked at that article for a long time on purpose: I know I would be sucked in and I just don't have time for the next few weeks. Regarding Lorch, regardless of his contributions he was a central figure in spreading the sanitised view of the conflict that only started to come unstuck when people like Benny Morris got involved. Just because Lorch had access to the archives doesn't mean that he reported (or was necessarily allowed to report) everything he saw there; as Morris demonstrated many times over. This was especially so in regard to the refugees. To quote Ian Lustig:
:::These authors knew how prominent a role was played by various forms of 'ethnic cleansing' and they employed a variety of strategies to avoid having to share this knowledge with their readers. Some simply did not mention the fate of the Arab inhabitants of the country or the causes for their displacement. In Lorch's nine-page index, for example, there is no listing for 'refugees' or 'Arab refugees'. Indeed, the matter is not discussed anywhere in his 450-page book, The Edge of the Sword: Israel's War of Independence, 1947-1949 (G. P. Putnam's Sons, 1961)."
:: Incidentally, Lustig also wrote this: "Just before his death in June 1997, Lorch publicly admitted that he left his post as head of the Israeli Army's History Division after the 1948 war because politically motivated censorship made good professional history writing impossible". (Both quotes from a 1997 review of Karsh's book.) ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 14:31, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
:The last paragraph you posted is interesting, because as far as I know, Lorch did extensive research for the army at least until 1959. Maybe he quit then? Anyway, there is no doubt that these historians mostly omitted talk of refugees—indeed, Oren stated in his book that "this is not the book to talk about Arab refugees", it's plainly stated. However, this does not mean that they lied about key details in their books. Apparently, Morris agrees with me, as all of his military history of 1948 is cited from historians who were at some point working for the IDF in that field, including Elhanan Oren, Avi Ayalon, Avi Cohen, Mordechai Bar-On, Jeuda Wallach, etc. In fact, looking right now at the bibliography section for ''Making Israel'', I am seeing that it's littered with books that I own written by "traditional" historians. It's also very important to understand that in the years we're talking about (60s and 70s), the only way to succeed in any field in Israel was to work in the field in the IDF—indeed, all of Israel's top singers and stage performers in that period were from IDF troupes.
:If you say you aren't able to read history books in Hebrew, maybe this is what gives you a perception that the "traditional" accounts are full of lies (my apologies to you if you didn't imply this)—in fact, all of the basic facts given there are the same as "new" historians (the difference is how they interpret them), and also in fact, the "traditional" historians never engaged in polemic or gave their personal opinions, except possibly in the foreword sections of their books. This is a key difference with "new" historians, who are 90% polemic and 10% history (except Morris, who did a significant amount of research). There is a published interview with Yoav Gelber where he basically says this in criticism of the "new" historians (again, he singles out Morris as an exception). Interestingly about Morris however, his writings vary significantly between the English and Hebrew versions—something that Karsh touched upon in his book of criticism of "new" historians. Interestingly, the extreme pro-Palestinian group ''Zochrot'' almost entirely "traditional" historiography (plus Morris), and practically no "new" history. Even they realize the vast differences in quality.
:You also cannot confuse "traditional" historians with the traditional Israeli "mythos" of the 1948 war; I read most of the books on ], and nowhere did I find a "traditional" historian say that "we were few against many", or something to that effect (although this is a very interesting debate which I have quite a bit of knowledge about and if you are interested, could discuss it with you :) ). The traditional Israeli accounts are often quite different from what the "traditional" historians say in their books, which most Israelis of course don't have time/ability to read. By the way, Mordechai Bar-On wrote an entire book on the historiography of the 1948 war.
:I am interested in discussing this stuff with you if you have time, just because there are no other editors I know (except Ceedjee and Nudve) who have vast knowledge of the war (apologies for anyone who is reading this if you have this knowledge!). We can move this to e-mail if you don't believe it's relevant to Misplaced Pages articles (indeed, it's not relevant to most of them...). Cheers, ] <sup>(])</sup> 20:44, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
]
::The problem, Yn, is that you want to rely on the primary sources directly. If modern historians make use of Oren (or any of the others), we can cite the modern historians citing them, so that we rely on what historians regard as worth taking from the earlier work. There is no need to use Oren directly, and doing so could lead to errors, UNDUE, and original research. <font color="green">]</font> <small><sup><font color="red">]</font><font color="pink">]</font></sup></small> 20:53, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
:::SV, I find it amazing that you call Oren a "primary source" having no idea who he was. But this discussion was moved here for a reason, it's because it's unrelated to Lydda/Ramla, and is a discussion of the historiography of the war in general. —] <sup>(])</sup> 00:45, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
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Like an idiot, I left the following for you yesterday on the wrong talk page. Then when you left a comment on the article talk page, I though that meant you were responding to my post, which I then couldn't find when I looked for it this morning. I briefly thought I was going mad, then realized the mistake I'd made. :) So, anyway, here is the request again (and feel free to ignore it completely if you're too busy):
:] ]
] '''Oversighter changes'''
:Hi Zero, if you have time (and there's no rush), would you mind taking a look at the above? I am thinking about trying to get it to FA status, which would mean a rewrite to shorten and tighten it, and make it MoS compliant. It would be quite a lot of work and I don't want to start it if, in fact, the article's not ready. Ynhockey is saying on the talk page that it omits key Israeli military sources that he regards as essential reading—but they are in Hebrew, so I wouldn't be able to do that. Would you mind casting an eye over the article to see whether, in your view, it is comprehensive enough as it stands, or whether anything (or any source) jumps out at you as missing, or as being unjustifiably overused? <font color="green">]</font> <small><sup><font color="red">]</font><font color="pink">]</font></sup></small> 00:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:] ]
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== BLP request ==
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* Following a ], ] is adopted as a policy.
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Heyo Zero,<br>I was serious when I asked you to refactor your comment on Levy and asking you yo tone it down (e.g. descriptives like "wild fanatic" are innapproriate). Please respond to this request.<br>Warm regards, <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>'']''</sup></font></b> 11:18, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
* Mass deletions done with the ] tool now have the 'Nuke' tag. This change will make reviewing and analyzing deletions performed with the tool easier. {{phab|T366068}}
:Thank you for responding. I hope we're in general agreement now about the issue in discussion.
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* An ] is happening in November 2024 to reduce the backlog of articles tagged with {{tl|Unreferenced}}. You can help reduce the backlog by adding citations to these articles. ]
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Someone who has been here as long as you should know that, you plank. ] (]) 15:32, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
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Don't know it myself, and two people I've asked don't know it either. Its a weird transliteration - neither the right Hebrew one, nor the Hebraized Arabic into English one (which would be Urshalim). Sorry I can't be of more help. ]<sup>]</sup> 18:11, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks,<!-- Template:Arbitration CA notice --> ] (]) 19:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
== Survey of Western Palestine ==
==Notice of noticeboard discussion==
Hi Zero0000! I noticed that you added this as a source, which implies that you have access to the surveys. Since they are public domain, would it be too much to ask of you to scan or otherwise publish it? These materials are fairly hard to come by these days, but offer amazing insight into Ottoman Palestine, especially in terms of maps. Cheers, ] <sup>(])</sup> 12:17, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is ]. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:AN-notice--> <span class="nowrap">] (]) <small>(please ] me on reply)</small></span> 19:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
== Reminder to participate in Misplaced Pages research ==
: Please send me email by the "e-mail this user" link. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:24, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Hello,
== Palestine origin of Name ==
I recently invited you to take a survey about administration on Misplaced Pages. If you haven’t yet had a chance, there is still time to participate– we’d truly appreciate your feedback. The survey is anonymous and should take about 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its ] and view its ].
Please discuss the issue and raise your points on the article talk page before you delete my edits in that section. Thanks ] (]) 19:05, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Take the survey ''''''.
: If there are more theories, then you can add them. I fail to understand your logic since giving the meaning of the word in Hebrew is in context and even if considering the baseless assumption that wasn't the "original" meaning the word, the current and known meaning of the word in Hebrew should be mentioned. Hebrew is a very old language, older than English, and there is no evidence to support your claim they the meaning of that word might have been different, since it's more or less the same language - back then (when the Hebrew bible was written) and today. The grammar may have changed, but the meaning of words has not. Therefore your point is not convincing, and you should start a discussion on the talk page and see what other people think. There is no point in trying to convince me further on this. ] (]) 23:04, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Kind Regards,
== Sheikh Bureik ==
]
Hi, I just started ]..just for collecting information. That the land was owned by the Sursuk-family in 1881 probably explains why the village is not mentioned later in the Mandate-period; I assume the land was sold (with the rest of the Sursuk-land) to the Zionist-organisation, like in the ], and the Arab tenants had to leave.
Ifyou could add any 1596-data, it would be great. Cheers, ] (]) 23:12, 8October2009 (UTC)
<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">] (]) 00:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC) </bdi>
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The Arbitration Committee has resolved by motion that:
:Hi, I´m not sure I understand the question? I worked kind of backwards....starting with the Sharon (2004)-text (I have the actual text; later I found that it was also available through google-books, as I have linked on the page.) Now, Sharon gives the SWP-refs, see , Cheers, ] (]) 23:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
;]:
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;]:
::SWP, 1881, :"small village, on a hill, with a conspicuous Makam (Sanctuary) to the south."...So; the village was situated somewhere to the north of the shrine,..that´s how I read it.
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::But the whole thing about ] just being discovered in 1936; it is a lot of rubbish, methinks. The SWP-notes shows that the place was known for decades before (though not the full extent of it). cheers, ] (]) 00:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
;]:
::Also; I found the SWP, 1881, reference in Sharon, 2004, , cheers, ] (]) 00:09, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
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;]:
:::SWP, 1881, : "two more tombs were found a little later, west of the village"
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:::SWP, 1881, : "the great caves are west of the village, on the side of the northern hill, and are entered by a door on the south-east. They were discovered by women digging for chalk" ---] (]) 00:23, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
* The case title will be '']''.
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;Addendum
On another note; I´m no good at fixing photos, but I think that most of the surroundings should be cut out of http://en.wikipedia.org/File:Sheikh_Abreik_Grave_in_Kiryat_Tiv'on,_Israel.jpg .....all those gray bushes aren´t really *that* interesting, methinks. And the other picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/File:Zaid12.JPG) gives a better/larger view of the surroundings...so I think we should keep that as it is. What do you think? --] (]) 00:32, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
In passing motion #5 to open a ''Palestine-Israel articles 5'' case, the Committee has appointed three drafters: ], ], and ]. The drafters have resolved that the case will open on November 30. The delay will allow the Committee time to resolve a related private matter, and allow for both outgoing and incoming Arbitrators to vote on the case. The drafters have changed the party list to the following individuals:
* {{User|BilledMammal}}
:Yes, I was delighted to find those Sharon-pages on the net. It has been a bit confusing as to which parts/books of Sharon are available on the net; there seem to be multippel references, som with no preview, others with. I have tried to collect the different web-sites here: ]...and I agree; the whole poem (+ more of the Canaan-stuff) should go into the article. I have asked Tiamut to help: hope she "bites"! ;)
* {{User|Iskandar323}}
:And it would be a *great* help to have the 1922 and 1931 censuses online! cheers, ] (]) 02:11, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
* {{User|Ïvana}}
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* {{User|Selfstudier}}
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The drafters reserve the right to amend the list of parties if necessary. The drafters anticipate that the case will include a two week evidence phase, a one week workshop phase, and a two week proposed decision phase.
The related '']'' request has been folded into this case. Evidence from the related private matter, as alluded to in the '']'' case request, will be examined prior to the start of the case, and resolved separately.
About categories: I guess at the moment we could use http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Villages_depopulated_prior_to_the_1948_Arab–Israeli_War; I see that the villages depopulated in 1967, like ] and ], use the "Villages depopulated after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War"-category. Eventually, I guess we should/could have a special category/template for these very early depopulated villages; but just now I´m not jumping up and down with enthusiasm at the prospect. (I´m still frantically trying to get my head above the water on the 1948-villages......)
For the Arbitration Committee, ] ] 05:26, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
Also; Thanks for the map; I haven´t looked much, but I wasn´t able to find Sheikh Bureik?
: Discuss this at: '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard|Arbitration motions regarding Palestine-Israel articles}}'''<!-- ] (]) 05:27, 15 November 2024 (UTC) --><!--Template:hes-->
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Also; the ]-article is not very good, at present, to put it mildly. Just to start with the article it refers to, from 2005, The Jewish Magazine: :
:It starts by proclaiming "Bet Shearim, recently chosen as protected site by the UN" What rubbish! Israel put it on ...now, there is a heck of a difference between beeing put on that list and actually be chosen as a UNESCO site.....
:And even the article-writer has "some" problems with turning this into a wholly Jewish site, writing: "Some of the names are not very Jewish: there are Kyrilla and Arethas, the children of Hannibal; there's also Kyrilos son of Ampilas." Lol! And then there is a sarcophagus with ] engraved.. In the article you have a picture of "Two lions facing each other – A Greek mythological scene decoration on sarcophagus"...And over at commons you have http://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Lada_and_the_Sean-Beit_Shearin.jpg. And the "explanation" that rabbis used these "pagan symbols" for "purely decoration"? So, if we find, say, a "Hannibal", in a sarcophagus decorated with scenes from ]-myth, the conclusion is ..... he´s Jewish?! Hmmm. If looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, I´m rather sceptical to people who tell me it is anything *but* a duck. (....But I have not read the archaeological reports.) Cheers, ] (]) 21:27, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
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Your editing of ] made the article much brighter (That's something I can't say about other useres who erased all the information that wasn't suitable for their agenda). All the best, --] (]) 12:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
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== Villages depopulated 1880-1930´s ==
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I have just started collecting them here, whenever I come across one. It is not easy to find information on them, (say, ] is basically just a redir.) Cheers, ] (])
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: Please see the ] for a workshop. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 05:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
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It's important to keep up with the latest scholarship. The article by the above world-class PSM scholar is available online and can be downloaded as a PDF file from this link: ]: {{cite web|url=http://ngc.dukejournals.org/cgi/reprint/35/1_103/83 |title=The Protocols of the Elders of Zion: PSM - Hagemeister 35 (1103) |date= |accessdate=2009-09-27}} It questions the novelty of the finding reported in the French press. --] (]) 01:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
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: Thanks, I already read it. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:53, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
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== Palestinian people ==
* The arbitration case '']'' (formerly titled '']'') has been closed.
Hi, i totally agree with what you did in the article, but i don't understand as to why you feel that Tsvi Misinai is unqualified to be quoted as an expert in this field. Even though he lacks academic credentials, he is still a reputed researcher. He is a notable person. His notability is derived from his research on this subject. There are plenty of reputed media sources mentioning him and his work. Even David Ben-Gurion and Yitzhak Ben Zvi lacked academic credentials and they are still quoted. So, if their views can be mentioned, then Misinai's views on this subject should be mentioned, as an assertion, not as a fact. ] 12:42, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
* An arbitration case titled '']'' has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case will close on 14 December.
----
: Please reply here. ] 12:43, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
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:: I knew this theory for a long time and find it very credible, so I'm not opposed to it being mentioned in the article. As for Misinai, he is someone who has an interest in a subject outside his area of formal expertise and he has written a book on it. From what I have read it is a very interesting book and I might even buy it. But the fact remains that it is a book written by a dedicated amateur and there are thousands of such books. Press coverage can make him and his book notable enough to get their own article (as I see there is), but it doesn't imply that the book is any good. It only implies that it is newsworthy (even the most crackpot books get newspaper coverage). When we choose sources for a key article like ] we are choosing from a very large field and can afford to stick to the most impeccable ones. I would prefer to wait until the book has favorable reviews from recognised experts. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 13:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
You are receiving this message because you are on ] for ]. The drafters note that the scope of the case was somewhat unclear, and clarify that the scope is {{tqq|The interaction of named parties in the ] topic area and examination of the ] process that led to ] ] to ]}}. Because this was unclear, two changes are being made:
::: Again, i agree with you. Let's just wait and see. ] 14:12, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
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== Removal of my Talk comment on “Jewish Voices for Peace” ==
Is THIS how "things are done" in Misplaced Pages?
Hello. You removed my comment in the talk section of “Jewish Voices for Peace” stating the criticism that the group has is not actually being Jewish (they non-Jewish members) but use their name to shield themselves from accusations of antisemitism be included in the article’s criticism section. This is a common criticism of the group (see the source I listed) and I don’t see why my comment was removed. Whether you believe this to be true should not be a factor in its inclusion. ] (]) 05:32, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Find a blatantly Anti-Zionist, Anti-Semitic site and just ]?
: {{Re|71.179.129.209}} You wrote "non-Jews can be members and make up the majority" but the source only says "some of the members of JVP are not Jews at all". Nothing about a majority. The first rule about choosing a source is that it supports the text you want to cite to it. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 06:37, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::Ok, remove “majority”. They have been criticized for using “Jewish” in their name to shield themselves from accusations of antisemitism (whether that is a valid criticism is another matter). Seems like something you should reply to my comment instead of deleting. ] (]) 05:38, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
== Administrators' newsletter – January 2025 ==
If THIS is how "things are done" in Misplaced Pages, please ban me. I wish to have no part in this. ] (]) 05:37, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
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:There is an article entitled ], yet if you switch the case of the letter i from the lower to the upper, no article on ] appears to exist. Is this another aspect of the way "things are done" at Misplaced Pages? '''ADMINS THEMSELVES''' commiting acts of blatant vandalism?
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:Please refrain from such acts of blatant vandalism. ] (]) 05:16, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
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It says I need an account to access the inside. I will sign up and let you now if I have better luck then. Thanks for everything by the way. ]<sup>]</sup> 13:45, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
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: My Pleasure! Amazon allows limited reading of lots of books that Google does not. But it imposes a max number of pages per book so you need to be careful not to browse too much. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 13:53, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
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::Hmmm ... I seem to have forgotten the password for my old Amazon account and because I don't remember my old visa number, they will not send it to me. I then set up a new account and was given the message that I could not browse without having made a prior purchase. Oh well. Perhaps I will buy something from Amazon soon anyway (maybe the Petersen book itself) as a Christmas gift to me and then I'll be able to browse more freely in the future. For now, I'm afraid I can't be of much help with this particular issue. Thans for letting me now about this though Zero and happy editing. ]<sup>]</sup> 14:05, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
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I am trying to figure out if Jubbata is one and the same place as ]. I've left some links on the talk page that may be of help in ascertaining their locations. Unfortunately, its all Greek to me. I've never been very good at coordinates and the like. Could you take a look and offer your opinion on the matter? Thanks. ]<sup>]</sup> 08:16, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
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: Hi, where did you find "Jubbata"? The one on p14 of Robinson (1843) seems to be the same as Jubata ez-Zeit, since it is in the right part of the country and there is a ''Birket'' directly to the north of it (matching Robinson's description). Did you find another Jubbata? Jubata ez-Zeit, also Joubbata ez-Zaite, Jubata al-Zayt, Djoubata el-Zeit, is correctly marked on near Majdal Chams. I have it on a 1943 military map. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 11:00, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
* Following the ], the following editors have been elected to the Arbitration Committee: {{noping|CaptainEek}}, {{noping|Daniel}}, {{noping|Elli}}, {{noping|KrakatoaKatie}}, {{noping|Liz}}, {{noping|Primefac}}, {{noping|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, {{noping|Theleekycauldron}}, {{noping|Worm That Turned}}.
::Page 14 of the 1843 book by Robinson mentions , on pages 58 ad 59 of the Bibliotheca Sacra, it is mentioned as , and Robinson mentions again in his later work on pages 402, 404, ad 405. ]<sup>]</sup> 16:59, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
::: I think these are all the same, though I can't identify all the nearby place names mentioned in these sources. Unfortunately the PEF map doesn't reach this far. Also notice there is another Jubata on this map: , namely Jubata Kashab in the dark zone. However it isn't on the way from Banias to Damas or on the way to the summit of Hermon, so I don't think it is the one in the sources. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
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== Morris & Khalidi ==
* A ] is happening in January 2025 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the ]. ]
----
Hello, since the Morris-stuff keeps growing; I´ve moved everything about Morris &/or Khalidi to : ]. You are very much welcome with your comments there. (I´m trying to map the relationship between the villages given in Morris &/or Khalidi... eventually also in the: Esber, Rosemarie M. (2008), Under the Cover of War, The Zionist Expulsions of the Palestinians. Arabicus Books & Media. ISBN 0981513174, 9780981513171. -book. ----although the Esber -book I have at the moment has some absolutely horrible printing-errors. Cheers, ] (]) 09:02, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
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: I don't understand the system there. What does bold mean? ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:05, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
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::Eh, bold generally means "I don´t have a clue here......anybody, please help me..." (oh, and I have also "bolded" the big cities, like ], ] etc.) Cheers, ] (]) 10:33, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
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:::And yeah; it´s a bit stupid, having to list all the villages twice. However, at present, I don´t know how to avoid it. ] (]) 11:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
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@Selfstudier: A serious piece of research published in an academic journal. Even if it is attributed, it should be cited as the result of a research project and not just as a claim. Zero05:05, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
@Selfstudier: I'm a bit confused by the timeline because aerial photos show construction starting around 2007. I've got a fiendishly busy week but I'll get to this eventually. Zero12:51, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
@Selfstudier: Confusing. It seems that the first alert given to an ARBPIA editor should now be {{subst:alert/first|a-i}} instead of {{subst:alert|a-i}}. It is better I think because it mentions the 30/500 restriction and 1RR instead of expecting the editor to read the ARBPIA page. If I understand footnote "n" at WP:Contentious topics, it is not necessary to give the new alert to people who previously received the old alert. Zero00:25, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
That seems clear enough. And {{Contentious topics/page restriction editnotice|topic=a-i}} for the edit notice? Adding section = yes if it is just partial. I didn't see a new talk page template, just use existing? Selfstudier (talk) 10:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
@Mercresis: It is in footnote 19 with additional references. Quotation: "Recent studies see a direct connection between the fast Ottoman military advance and the consequences of the Black Death from the mid-fourteenth century onwards. They emphasize that Byzantine territories, where the initial Ottoman conquests were carried out, were exhausted (both demographically and militarily) due to the plague outbreaks, which facilitated the Ottoman expansion." It is almost the same as our article had. Please put it back. Zero13:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
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@Riskit 4 a biskit: This talmud is frequently called the Palestinian Talmud in scholarly writing. (Search for "Palestinian Talmud" with quotes at scholar.google.com .) So it is reasonable for the article to say why it is called that. Zero23:56, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
On reflection
I am going to copy Lebanon, South Africa and Brittany off to the talk page. Probably the Channel Islands too. All of them have the problem you mentioned about Palestine, ie possibly some wannabes, but I don't really see sourced *collaboration* yet, although I think it is there to be found . But it will be petty, so whereas when I first came to the article the weight seemed undue towards eastern Europe, very light on North Africa, it now seems to have gone somewhat too far in the other direction. And Japan, I am not even sure what to say. Too steep a learning curve, which is what I thought of Irgun.
I am going to do one more pass to try to reference what is there in Europe -- I have already done several passes on all three continents -- then start from the other end, looking for highly-cited work that may not be included. Does that sound like a good plan? It's impolite of course to ask people what exactly their level of expertise and areas of knowledge are, but in this very fraught instance I'm just going to say that you seem to have some topic knowledge, probably broader and deeper than mine, and definitely much much more so in the middle east. So I humbly ask that to the extent you can, please do continue to review what we're doing and let us know if we're citing discredited authors or anything else that would be embarrassing. I have no particular agenda to prove anything in the area, except that I know more about Vichy France than the rest of it due to my educational history. But I am not a historian.
I feel like I am treading on dangerous ground, but the article does desperately need improvement, and I have done big messy cleanups before. So...I will not ping you more than I have to, but I'm about to write some more questions on the talk page and should you feel so moved, your attention there would be welcome. Oh, and if you are interested, there is a question at RSN about the Blue Police, but it's had a couple of answers, so as I sometimes say, don't spend more time on this than you want to. Thanks Elinruby (talk) 01:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
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I agree with your statement on ArbCom. Also it's worth noting what USHMM is actually saying former Soviet prisoners of war (POWs) of various nationalities or Ukrainian and Polish civilians, it doesn't determine their ethnicity, only the fact that before 1939 they were citizens of Poland, so most likely west Ukrainians. Ukrainian civilians refer probably to the Ukrainian SSR citizens in its pre-1939 borders Marcelus (talk) 15:12, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
Another thank you: This time massacre at Kolo
Thank you for your ArbCom explanation about my edit (a very long time ago). It felt odd to be named in the first place, and it's very pleasant that you straightened things out. To the point, I'd like to draw your attention to my comment on the same page:
@Horse Eye's Back: Thanks for the mention of my counter-disruptive efforts three years ago. Such work is rarely acknowledged and so I appreciate it. For the same reason that you swam away from that one issue then, I am almost totally retired from Misplaced Pages now. But let me be clear, this is definitely not simply a case of zealous 'nationalists' versus the noble souls who crusade against them. The zealous 'crusaders' are sometimes so convinced of their own virtue that they assume bad faith in content when there is no such thing, and go ahead and disrupt the topic area based on their own projections of malice. A notorious case was Icewhiz, another case was Varsovian, both AFAIR indefinitely blocked or permanently banned from the topic area. At times, IMHO SlimVirgin was one of those problematic crusaders too. Misplaced Pages policy and guidelines already got it right long ago, that it takes two to tango. Many trolls have their opposite number, with which they exchange bait. Personal psychology becomes relevant because that dynamic becomes an addiction to conflict, with the impossible objective of winning. Btw I entirely concur with you about Piotrus and hereby vouch for him too. -Chumchum7 (talk) 06:53, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
I've been reading quite a bit lately about the police system in occupied Poland, so I have some knowledge on the subject. There were two formations in the German formations called the Gendarmerie: Gendarmerie des Reiches (essentially uniformed police serving in villages and small towns, part of the Orpo) and the Feldgendarmerie, which was essentially Military Police within the Wehrmacht. So the gendarmes may have been part of the Wehrmacht.
The second issue is the participation of Poles. Poles were generally not allowed to serve in the German police or the Wehrmacht. Volksdeutsche could not do so either. Volksdeutsche could serve in the Sonderdienst (created, however, only in May 1940) or in the Hilfspolizei; only after good service did they receive Reichsdeutsche status and the right to serve in the regular police force. Ethnic Poles had this path closed. The conscription of Volksdeutsche to the Wehrmacht began on a massive scale only in 1942, before that it was sporadic.
It is very possible that those in reference ("were all born in Poland") were Polish Germans who left Poland for Germany before 1939 and returned with the army (this was quite common) or members of the Volksdeutscher Selbstschutz, an organization composed of Germans living in Poland responsible for horrific crimes. It is also possible that by "gendarme" this witness meant any uniformed German who was not a Wehrmacht soldier (and the Gendarmerie des Reiches was the formation that Poles encountered most often). (pinging @Ealdgyth, because I comment on it on her talk page before making more reading) Marcelus (talk) 12:41, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
@Marcelus and Chumchum7: Thanks. I'm having trouble confirming the information at Yahadmap from any other source. The best I have found from that early period is mention of murder but not mention of a large scale massacre. Can either of you read Yiddish? There's a memorial volume called Sefer Kolo that might have something but the only version I can find online is the original Yiddish version or here. There is also a Hebrew edition I can't find and a very partial English edition that doesn't include the Holocaust years. I think that the text should be retired from the article if no confirmation can be found. Zero13:00, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
"Do końca 1939 r. Niemcy rozstrzelali ok. 300 Żydów." -> "By the end of 1939 the Germans executed about 300 Jews." (RS: ) Marcelus (talk) 13:10, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
@Marcelus: Good find! That page looks more reliable than the Yahadmap one, so maybe it should be used instead? Incidentally, though I have done bulk reading on Holocaust history I have no intention of editing there; my main interest Israel-Palestine gives me more than enough trouble. Zero13:21, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
And a speedy find. Which begs an important question: what does it say about perception and attitude that an editor took a single uncontroversial edit from years ago and dragged it into ArbCom, instead of (1) fixing it, (2) reverting with explanation or (3) taking it to the talk page? For me, it illustrates our common problem of presumptuous crusading as over-reaction to falsely-perceived trolling. The nationalists and crusaders take each others' bait. Hence my near-retirement. -Chumchum7 (talk) 15:12, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Unfortunately, most of the evidences pointed out by @Ealdgyth are of this type, as I already wrote her about in a discussion a few days ago (link); unfortunately, it seems to me this is partly due to ignorance of the subject. That is, I had not heard of the massacre in Koło before, but knowing where this city lies and what happened in the region in 1939, it immediately seemed to me that it is as plausible that such an event took place. Marcelus (talk) 18:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Model discussion of the source
Thank you for saying that, because that is what I was trying for. However, the link did not go where I expected. This is likely my fault, as I recognize the link as something I had in my sandbox. Let me get you the correct link. Assuming I understand your point. .Elinruby (talk) 08:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
@Elinruby: That doesn't work for me, maybe because it's a mobile link and I'm on desktop. How about this link? I'm finding the process confusing, and for some comments I can't tell if they are intended as criticism or praise. Zero08:19, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
maybe. We're talking about the RSN thread on the Blue Police and the question of whether the source supported the "death" statement, right? it's in archive 398 and the title of the thread is "The Blue Police in Poland" Elinruby (talk) 08:33, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
ok, well at least we're talking about the same thing.
For now, I guess disregard my comment about the link, and I'll come back and tell you where I go if it's still doing it after I reboot. Or open an OTRS or something.
So back to the main point: thank you for saying that, because that was my point. The main one, anyway. This is what I was trying to send when I had an edit conflict: I for one am pretty traumatized by the war in Ukraine articles. Do not want to go through a 17th or 18th iteration of that, especially if I can't talk about it and have to AGF all over again. If you're asking about *my* last post, the answer is both. I am trying to be fair while retaining all the shades of grey.
(The next day) the link you give above with the displaytext "this link" is correct, and goes to the correct section of archive 398.
The one in your question to me at ArbCom goes to the top of archive 375, as verified by the url. I don't mean to bludgeon you about this, but if you think that the RSN thread about the Blue Police is a model discussion of content, then I am very gratified as its author and would like to see this (IMHO) very important point given the proper weight by arbitrators, which is more likely if the link goes to the discussion you are describing. Thanks for your attention to this Elinruby (talk) 05:15, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
As for the buffer error, presumably at some point you looked at that archive, shrug, and were thinking of saying something to somebody about something in it. Common issue based on call center experience. Real answer depends on whether you were using a mouse, but I don't think you are asking for that much detail, are you? Elinruby (talk) 05:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
I have recently blanked the portion of your evidence submission that was not moved to analysis. Having read it a couple of times it seems far more like analysis than evidence, including the fact that it was directed towards other editors rather than arbitrators. You would be welcome to post any/all of the content that was there at an existing analysis section (or if no section has been created, new). Please let me know if you have any questions about this or what we're looking for in evidence/analysis. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:02, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
<page stalker>, yeah, and given that you have 260k+ edits on en.wp, they would have least had to have gone through 200000 of your edits in order to find that -one- edit. My oh my, I must confess I'm in absolute awe over their industriousness! Huldra (talk) 20:51, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
You protected this page, and the article, in June 2014 following oversight actions on both. Do you believe continued protection of the talk page is warranted? 67.180.143.89 (talk) 23:31, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
I removed the protection from the talk page. The article remains semiprotected, but according to the ARBPIA rules autoconfirmed status is not enough to edit there anyway. Zero01:35, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
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The arbitration case World War II and the history of Jews in Poland has been closed. The topic area of Polish history during World War II (1933-1945) and the history of Jews in Poland is subject to a "reliable source consensus-required" contentious topic restriction.
Hello Zero0000. I am the declared COI editor for Nefesh B'Nefesh. I've seen your editing on Israel and Jewish-related content on Misplaced Pages, and would appreciate your help with the publication of this article for Rabbi Yehoshua Fass, the founder of Nefesh B'Nefesh. In 2021, a discussion about a previous draft resulted in a redirect. This new draft is significantly expanded and reflects the extensive coverage Rabbi Fass has garnered over the years. I'd be grateful for your assistance and input in creating an independent article for Rabbi Fass. Thank you LA for NBN (talk) 10:09, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
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Regarding my inappropriate reply to you on Talk:There was no such thing as Palestinians
Hello,
I'm contacting you here for two reasons:
1. I want to directly and unreservedly apologise for for my inappropriate criticism of your motivations. You are completely right, and I'm grateful for your clear explanation of why that is the case.
2. As a non-extended-confirmed editor, I have just realised that I have violated policy by involving myself in discussion in the first place.
As far as I can tell, I have therefore violated two policies. As a relatively inexperienced editor, I'm not sure what to do next. Is there a formal procedure via which I can effectively report myself for policy violations? Foxmilder (talk) 01:23, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
@Foxmilder: Don't worry about the comments made in haste and thanks for the apology. Non-extended-confirmed editors were permitted to take part in talk page discussions until 9 days ago; now only edit requests are permitted. Cheers. Zero03:54, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
I did not know that, so thanks — again — for explaining.
Your patience and tolerance set a good example. Next time I'm tempted to say something stupid on a talk page, I will endeavour to keep these virtues in mind.
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Hey Zero0000
It seems you reverted my revision claiming that since Paul=small and Saul=asked for, that Paul did change his name
This is somewhat irrelevant. It was common practice in that era for people to have two names, one which was their Hebrew given name and then another name that sounded more "greek". These were frequently very similar in phonetics, but not in meaning.
@PuckSR: I don't have an opinion on the facts, but only noticed that your edit summary "Paul is just the Latinized version of Saul" is incorrect. The religious site you name doesn't come close to satisfying Misplaced Pages's requirements for a reliable source. However, the issue is peripheral to that particular article, so there is no need to resolve it there. Zero22:23, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Ah, I see what you were saying.
I meant "latinized" in the sense of an Anglicized name. As someone named Johoviak might anglicize their name to "John". I didnt mean to convey that it was a latin translation of the name. As for the source, I didn't think it needed to be a reliable source, as I wasn't making a positive assertions. Even the wikipedia entry to Paul https://en.wikipedia.org/Paul_the_Apostle#Names clarifies that this is a common misunderstanding that seems to have slipped into the Christian persecution text. PuckSR (talk) 20:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
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Arbitration
Following a motion, the Extended Confirmed Restriction has been amended, removing the allowance for non-extended-confirmed editors to post constructive comments on the "Talk:" namespace. Now, non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace solely to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided that their actions are not disruptive.
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My comments on the talk page related to the article, not to the topic itself in general.
Furthermore, they cited key legal documents and provisions. Consideration of such documents and analysis were constructive criticism of the subject area I identified in the article, which were offered to improve the article.
Ultimately, we must be mindful that Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia that must tell the truth and be as factual as possible, even when, (and especially when) the truth and facts may not be popular.
You and other editors should not revert unless the edits are disruptive. Disruptive comments should not include those that are well supported by relevant legal documentation and analysis.
Actions to revert a page should require a strong showing and effectuated only with due consideration and restraint.
The talk page drives and shapes discourse relating to the article, which may lead to edits to improve the article. These improvements redound to the benefit of the public and of democracy itself.
Where as here, reverting talk on the page I made in good faith and which pertained to key issues relating to the article, stultifies discourse. Such actions lead to legitimate claims of censorship, which violates Misplaced Pages's policy.
You also failed to notify me that you reverted the page. The best policy is, if you have a concern, to discuss it with me first before taking action. If we have a disagreement, we can mutually agree to seek the opinion of a neutral third party.
@Biolitblue: I don't make the rules. WP:ARBECR is very clear on what non-ec editors like yourself are allowed to do, and your edit did not conform to those rules. If you want another opinion, ask a different administrator. There is a list here. Zero04:06, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
The only requirement I can discern is that the editor's content on the Talk page must not be "disruptive."
I interpret disruptive as gas lighting, pushing an agenda, offering evidence which is irrelevant or off-topic, or arguments that are logically spurious or unsourced.
I stated that "he legality section needs development and a higher location in the article." The only reasonable inference is that the documents and analysis furnished in the body of the talk was a proposed edit to further develop the legality section.
The legality section is paramount because it determines the respective rights and obligations of the respective parties not just in the Mandate, but over time. Where as here, summarily claiming that the legal aspects have been debated by scholars and then listing in footnotes sections of books where scholarly debate is purportedly found is insufficient. In fact, it comes across as subterfuge and a way to obviate the need for proper discussion.
As a policy of Misplaced Pages, Misplaced Pages has to be accessible to the average reader. A great majority of readers will not pick up these books at the library or purchase them, and the "scholarly" analysis might be too abstruse.
Without the editing requested, it is NOT Neutral: because it omits key aspects and documents pertaining to the legality of the Mandate. Along these same lines, it is not broad in its coverage and does not discuss all relevant aspects.
As it stands, with no disrespect intended to the author and other contributors, I disagree with this article's rating as a "good article." It is possible that if the legality section were more developed, the article could not only fulfill the requirements of a good article but could even become a feature article.
My proposed edits might be WP:NOR until others have had the opportunity to examine the documents, analysis, and conclusions. If the conclusions are rejected as WP:NOR upon review, then the sections and discrepancies in the documents could still be highlighted without violating the rule. Some other content dealing with the McMahon-Hussein correspondence does not violate the rule if I remove the conclusion and let the sources quotes speak for themselves. I have more quotes on the matter. Biolitblue (talk) 15:59, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
Nableezy ban
Hi. Not sure I was very helpful there. I wish I can be of some help. On a different level: what would really constitute friendly help here? Anyone who is so personally involved in this huge tragedy should be helped to take a break from it - in real life. Wiki comes next. Apparently being glued to the screens can produce more PTSD and depression than facing some of the horrible things happening there in person. If we don't manage to help him out of the ban, it might turn out to be a blessing in disguise. But then again, a) he must know it, and b) his editing, the stress involved, and the additional time it keeps him stuck in this unending hell is probably the least of his stress factors right now. Try to help him on a different level if you can, maybe ask Nishidani to write to him as well. It's far too much for me too. Thanks, Arminden (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
I wasn't asking for that. My focus was on Nableezy as a person rather than an editor. That is, if you have closer contact to him than I do. If not, I'm sorry I brought it up. Arminden (talk) 13:23, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
Sometimes, the best thing that we can do for ourselves is to step-away from the issues that put us at variance with our fellow editors (even if it is only for a short period). Personally speaking, for me, it was good to step-away from the Arab-Israeli conflict - because of its inherent contentious nature. Nableezy has shown understanding to my own shortcomings in the ARBPIA area, and he has volunteered to act as a mentor for me, even though we share different political views. There is something to be admired about his ability to give to his disputant the benefit of the doubt.Davidbena (talk) 21:56, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
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Do you think a 1986 article in Shomron Studies is reliable for claiming the ethnic history of people across Palestine? nableezy - 17:19, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
@Nableezy: It's a hard question because I don't have the article in question. The author Grossman was a well-known demographer. What concerns me is the precision of the reports; the fact that a family or two has a tradition of coming from another place does not mean that the tradition is true, and it doesn't entitle us to write that the village population came from that other place. But it is hard to argue this without the source. Zero00:53, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Grossman (2011), Rural Arab Demography and Early Jewish Settlement in Palestine: Distribution and Population Density During the Late Ottoman and Early Mandate Periods has stuff from the journal, idk if that could be used instead. Selfstudier (talk) 10:16, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
I have that book and it could be useful for generalities, but it has little in the way of village by village details. I understand that the Hebrew edition was more expansive. Zero12:31, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
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Arbitration
An arbitration case has been opened to look into "the intersection of managing conflict of interest editing with the harassment (outing) policy".
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I'm writing on behalf of the IP Server who started to edit at "British currency in the Middle East" on 29th March this year. The editor suddenly found the IP server range blocked, while being accused of being a blocked editor called TheCurrencyGuy. The editor at the IP server categorically denies being TheCurrencyGuy, doesn't know TheCurrencyGuy, and has never interacted with him. Meanwhile, a editor called JMF has been on the talk page at "British currency in the Middle East" stating that at least some of the recent edits were definitely done by TheCurrencyGuy. Well, so he says, but not one of the edits carried out by the blocked IP server since 29th March was done by TheCurrencyGuy, and it doesn't appear that anybody else edited during that period. It would be interesting to see what JMF's evidence is, but meanwhile he has reverted all the hard work and careful research that was carried out since 29th March. The article is now in an inferior state with many factual inaccuracies that had been corrected by the blocked IP server. 77.99.242.50 (talk) 09:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
JMF's advice to get an account is what I would advise too. And the best way to avoid text being removed for being unsourced is to add sources at the same time as the text. Zero03:54, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
An account cannot be created until it is acknowledged that the blocked IP server is not a sockpuppet of TheCurrencyGuy. Meanwhile, the editor using the blocked IP server categorically denies the accusation, and says that this is the only important issue at the moment. Can you please help to have the investigation re-visited. The blocked IP editor has checked the editing history of TheCurrencyGuy to see what the alleged similarities are, and has noted that TheCurrencyGuy began his editing days by correcting the format of a foreign currency on some article, and then over time did likewise with many other currency units, and his focus seemed to be on spelling and formatting. The blocked IP server would like to point out that this style has got nothing in common with matters relating to the history of currency in the Middle East. If you can get the IP server unblocked, then the editor will be able to discuss the matter with you directly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.242.50 (talk) 20:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
The IP server that was blocked at the same time as https://en.wikipedia.org/User:Jahor12345 is not connected. Both were editing simultaneously on different articles during the morning of 3rd April 2024. That was the session when you became involved on the talk page about the meaning of the word miri. The IP server began with detailed edits about the Egyptian pound, and then around noon, switched over to British currency in the Middle East. Meanwhile, editor Jahor12345 was editing across a wide range of currency topics, mainly reformatting. The editing styles are completely different. The IP server carried out edits at 1204hrs and 1206hrs, while Jahor12345 carried out an edit in the middle of that two minute period at 1205hrs. They couldn't possibly be the same person.81.134.217.27 (talk) 13:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
You are not convincing me, and anyway I do not have the authority to overrule the results of WP:SPI. I don't see the slightest reason why someone can't make an account if they want to edit. Zero03:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Attribution
Please read WP:RSP on MondoWeiss: Mondoweiss is a news website operated by the Center for Economic Research and Social Change (CERSC), an advocacy organization. There is no consensus on the reliability of Mondoweiss. Editors consider the site biased or opinionated, and its statements should be attributed. It should either not be used at all — or used with great caution — for biographies of living people. We need to attribute in text when we use it. Removing attribution, as you've done in a number of articles, goes against the community consensus. BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
@Bobfrombrockley: It means that the authors of articles in MW should be attributed for their claims. It doesn't say "stuff in MW should be attributed to MW", it says that statements in MW "should be attributed", which always means that opinions or claims should be attributed to whoever is giving the opinion or making the claim (note the meaning of "attributed" in the link). The only time it implies that MW as a magazine should be attributed for something is when the article at hand is when MW itself is the author (e.g. an editorial). Also, if MW was to be attributed it would have to be like "according to MW", which is not what you have been writing — what you have been writing is not an attribution at all per WP jargon but rather a part of the citation placed in the text against usual practice. Zero13:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick reply. I might take this to another forum as I had never understood it in this way so would welcome clarification. BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:52, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
To someone who was killed in a "brief massacre", its "briefness" would not be the slightest mitigating factor. My recommendation would be to avoid incongruous dimunitizing expressions such as "brief massacre", "slight temporary genocide", or "gentle rape" as arguments for your edits, whether to the Kfar Etzion massacre article or elsewhere on Misplaced Pages... AnonMoos (talk) 21:12, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Keep on searching the thesaurus for oxymoronic adjective-noun combinations like "non-violent murder" and "tiny little extermination campaign" all you want, but you won't be improving Misplaced Pages by doing so. AnonMoos (talk) 00:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Two kisses on the same day are enough. Now kindly improve my user page by pissing off. Go on, shoo. Zero01:02, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
I replied on the Mandatory flag thread above (I also quickly got tired of that discussion in 2022, though there was more to say). AnonMoos (talk) 11:14, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Partial action blocks are now in effect on the English Misplaced Pages. This means that administrators have the ability to restrict users from certain actions, including uploading files, moving pages and files, creating new pages, and sending thanks. T280531
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Hi. I see that you reverted my contribution to the page about antisemitism on Harvard’s campus after 2020. I'm aware of the extended confirmed restriction and contentious topics procedure regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict. My intention was not to post on that conflict but to report on important antisemitic incidents happening on college campuses, which I understood was the point of this page. I get that these protests are influenced, in part, by the Arab-Israeli conflict, but is there a way to acknowledge the catalyst while avoiding violating the extended confirmed restriction and contentious topics procedure relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict? Do you have any recommendations on how I can reword some of my content to un-revert it and restore it to the page? Thank you very much. HistoryBook123 (talk) 18:55, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
@HistoryBook123: They aren't just "influenced" by the A-I conflict, they are part of it. Anyway the ARBPIA topic designation says "broadly interpreted" so there is really no doubt that the material is included. Your only option is to put an edit proposal on the talk page. I didn't make the rules and if I don't enforce them for sure someone else will. Your edit also contained opinion written in wikivoice so it wouldn't have lasted long even if you had the required credentials. Zero04:46, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
False Accusation of Sockpuppetry
Regarding the blocked IP server that I used in April to make edits at British currency in the Middle East, I've opened up this special account in order to help resolve the situation. I can't edit again util the administrator who blocked my address revisits the original investigation. But even with this special account, I still can't seem to be able to edit on their talk page. I appreciate that you yourself don't have the authority to over rule that result, but I'd be grateful if you could contact Bbb23 on my behalf and ask them if they could take a look at the evidence again. I can assure you that I am definitely not TheCurrencyGuy. I've looked at his edits. His style and purpose was quite different from mine, and besides I did show you evidence last month that we were both editing at the exact same time on different articles. I'd be most grateful if you could help. Specialrequestaccount (talk) 08:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
I've put the message like this, but I seem to have formatted it wrongly. Can you please help me to format it and I'll post it again,
{{To|Bbb23}}I'd be grateful if you could contact me here regarding a block on my IP server which you did on 12th April. Somebody alleged that I am a sockpuppet of an editor called TheCurrencyGuy. I am assuredly not however. The accusation involved another editor with a name something like Jahor12345 who was also blocked for being a sockpuppet of TheCurencyGuy. I have no idea whether they were or not, but I did find evidence that Jahor12345 was editing at exactly the same time as me on different articles. The only thing we seem to have in common is the fact that we were editing on currency related articles, but not with the same style or purpose. I look forward to hearing from you.~~~~
It doesn't appear that the blocking administrator is going to reply. Is there some kind of notice board that I can go to in order to highlight this issue? I think it's quite important. I was editing in good faith and suddenly blocked, just because I happened to be editing on currency related articles and because there is a blocked editor called TheCurrencyGuy. But there is something very seriously wrong when those involved aren't open to discussing the evidence. The blocking administrator must know fine well that the IP servers don't match. Specialrequestaccount (talk) 12:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
You can write at WP:AN/I but it's possible nobody will be interested, as are there are currently no sanctions against your account. You'll need to explain everything with diffs and not assume that anyone is aware of it. Zero14:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
Thanks again. I'll maybe do that. Although there are no sanctions against this account, it's still impossible for me to edit on the Middle East currency articles that I had been editing on with the IP server, because I would be immediately blocked again, based on the belief of Bbb23 that I am a sockpuppet of TheCurrencyGuy. Until that belief has been officially debunked by, either Bbb23, or by some other administrator, I will have no future in the project. This began in March when I was studying the schism between the Egyptian piastre and the Turkish piastre in 1844. I had obtained books on the topic and I also referred to the relevant Misplaced Pages articles. These articles were quite useful, but it was clear that they contained many inaccuracies. I set about correcting the information in these articles and I thought I had got them into a much more accurate state. I was nearly finished, and about to make an edit relating to the Saudi Riyal when suddenly I found myself blocked, having been accused of abusively indulging in sockpuppetry. And soon after that, another editor wiped out every single bit of work that I had done, expressly stating that the reason wasn't based on the content on the edits, but on the grounds that he believed me to be a sockpuppet of TheCurrencyGuy. It's turned me pretty sour about the project, but I'm still holding out hope that there must surely be some administrator who can check out that my IP server was different from TheCurrencyGuy's, and that likely we are in totally different geographical locations, and that the entire focus of our edits is quite different, and that at one point we were editing on different articles at exactly the same time. There is something seriously wrong with the system if this cannot be ascertained, and that people simply get blocked because they edit on an article that is of interest to another editor who has been blocked.Specialrequestaccount (talk) 18:50, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
Misandry noticeboard discussion
Hey Zero, please give me your input on the Misandry discussion. I just can't keep arguing with these people anymore. It feels like we need a way bigger team of admins involved. Someone just told me "admins don't have any special authority in content disputes." ImmersiveOne (talk) 14:40, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
request to Strike your Comment in the infada talk page.
can you please strike booth the non ECR comment as well as your response in the Talk page?
when you leave it this way it seams like you care more about "winning" wikipedia and getting your pov heard then to actually Resolve the content dispute
Certainly not. First, it is only permitted to remove edit summaries under very limited circumstances and this is not one of them. Second, as you well know, you are limited to edit requests and your other comments are not permitted. I didn't make the rules, but I am allowed to enforce them. So, whatever "dispute" is happening there, you are not a party to it. You can always make yourself an account and work up to EC if you want to participate. Zero22:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Thanks
Thanks for your help with navigating the stages to appeal the block. I think the matter has now been resolved. It seems that TheCurrencyGuy is geographically close to me and that contributed towards the suspicion. I may or may not return to editing, but if I do, I will either use the IP server again or create another account with a more suitable username. Specialrequestaccount (talk) 10:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
There are some transcripts in Law and the Arab-Israeli Conflict The Trials of Palestine Steven E. von Zipperstein if you haven't seen those. Selfstudier (talk) 15:34, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
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Is https://unifil.unmissions.org/sites/default/files/unifilpresskit.pdf (the section Shab'a Farms on p.6) in accord with your understanding of the current position?
Anyway it does say "With the UN having placed the Shebaa Farms area south of the Blue Line at the time the line was established, Israel considers them part of the Golan, rather than Lebanon. Hence, it would only negotiate with Syria, and address the issue in Syrian-Israeli peace talks on the Golan." Salud. Selfstudier (talk) 11:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
No, not at all, was just checking that it was still current, apart from that, I saw you said you wanted a later source for the Israeli position, will it do? Selfstudier (talk) 11:23, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
Hi Zero, just wanted to chat about this page. By way of intro, I'm a clinical psychologist with 30 years experience. I would respectfully suggest that to not include this account, reported in great detail by The New Yorker from interviewing Loftus, would leave this page incomplete and lacking encyclopaedic credibility. For those of us in the profession this revelation changed everything about Loftus's position. It was quite incredible that she herself gave one of the best examples of not remembering and then recalling a traumatic memory.
Her word for word quote “the memory flew out at me, out of the blackness of the past, hitting me full force” is a clear and classic account of recovering a repressed memory - you don't get better . All a repressed traumatic memory is is a memory that was not remembered for a period of time and then it is when it is triggered - it's not a complex psychological concept. I'm happy to work with you on wording you're comfortable with as a full account is more important than the wording. I did try to rely on attributed quotes rather than use my own words. You might like to discuss with a friendly psychologist. Cheers Penny Pennylewis (talk) 22:35, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
@Pennylewis: You need to read the whole source. "But Loftus never forgot what happened. She had shared the memory with Geoff shortly after they married. “It wasn’t ‘Oh, my God, I was abused,’” he said. “It was more like ‘What’s more, I myself was abused.’" It is not for us to interpret the source according to what we would like it to mean. The source does not say that she had repressed the incident from her childhood until it suddenly came out in a courtroom, so we aren't allowed to say that either per WP:NOR. Nobody except Loftus herself can say that, and per WP:NOR it doesn't make a difference what your expertise is, sorry. Yes, I know that people who dispute Loftus' views would just love it if she proved herself wrong, but that's something to argue in professional venues, not here. Zero01:34, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
I have to admit, with some chagrin, that I did not see that para of her not forgetting it. A colleague sent me the part that I shared and I guess I assumed that there was little point to highlighting it if she had remembered it all along! Sucked in by the journalistic sensationalism. Should have read the entire article in detail. I am embarrassed and am grateful that you very graciously dealt with my error here. With due respect to you. Pennylewis (talk) 07:28, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
@The Mountain of Eden: Your version says "late 19th and early 20th centuries". The paragraph immediately following gives an 1843 example, which is not late 19th century, so "late 19th" is wrong. Even earlier examples are known (I should add them). As to when it stopped being used, that isn't specified. I know of examples from the 1980s and 1990s, which admittedly are not in the article yet. I'm open to another wording, but you are mistaken in thinking that "during" means "throughout". It doesn't. Incidentally, exchanges like this should go on the article talk page so they aren't lost. Zero13:57, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
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Miscellaneous
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Could you clarify why you consider the Jewish Virtual Library an unreliable source? I used it to provide context to Rabbi Shlomo Goren’s military service, and the information I referenced is sourced from the Encyclopedia Britannica. Please explain your reasoning for labeling it as unreliable. Best regards. MeirKovner (talk) 14:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
@MeirKovner: As Selfstudier wrote, JVL has been judged unreliable by consensus. However, if JVL cites information to some reliable source you can cite that source. But you have to examine the reliable source yourself; you can't just take JVL's word that the information is there. I have seen JVL cite some source but when I went to that source I found that the information wasn't there at all. It's things like this that make JVL unreliable. Zero22:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
Hi. You reverted my edit on Protocols of the Elders of Zion
You said it doesn't mention communist monarchy. I read the text. I know it's likely a forgery and even if it wasn't, I support some of the things in the text. I woudn't mind a communist monarchy. But the text clearly supports it. It mentions a Jewish king and the support for communism. I personally support a world government for world peace. Do you care to explain how my edits were incorrect? Nashhinton (talk) 14:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
@Nashhinton: I have also read it, along with many commentaries. Most translations don't mention communism by name. But our opinions are irrelevant because in Misplaced Pages we report what reliable sources say about the topic and nothing else. The sourcing standard in this article is intentionally very strict because of the huge amount of crap written on the subject. Also, the lead is supposed to be a summary of the body of an article, so it is not the place to put new material. Zero15:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Are there different versions of protocols of elders of zion? Like, do some versions add and make up stuff that wasn't in the original text? Nashhinton (talk) 15:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
@Nashhinton: There are multiple early Russian versions with large and small differences between them, and multiple translations (and translations of translations) with different degrees of fidelity. Some "translations" are not really translations at all but more like running commentaries. Zero23:31, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Return Lebanese Military Map
One reason why the Shebaa Farms entry is such a mess is that the Lebanese military map from 1966, which was uploaded to wikipedia more than five years ago, was deleted entirely.
As you know, I put that map on the Golan Heights page. In return, not only was the map was deleted from the Golan entry, it was deleted from the Shebaa Farms entry and from Misplaced Pages itself.
It was quickly deleted on the grounds that it was "redundant", after you argued to keep it.
I have instituted a deletion review. But clearly I'm at a disadvantage here by not knowing all the ins and outs of complex wikipedia protocols.
You seem to want to tell the documented truth, rather than allow hand-waving falsehoods such as that "Syria accepts that the territory is Lebanese" when you know the history is far more complex than that. (Both Lebanon and Syria said the territory was Syria for decades and even today, Assad will not say it is Lebanese territory. That map is critical to showing that the entry on Shebaa Farms implying Syria always accepted it as Lebanese territory is simply not accurate)
Could you please find the deletion review -- which I have not yet found even though I instituted it -- or begin one of your own to get that map back?
And thank you for your contribution on the map deletion review page. I really do appreciate it. I do recognize you are acting in good faith, even if we disagree on the proper use of some of the sources. I just want to accurately reflect them.
The UN found the territory to be Lebanese for a good reason, and both Lebanon and Syria have had conflicting positions over the years. I want those positions to be reflected in the article in all their confusing complexity rather than a blanket statement one way or the other which would be simple but inaccurate. And if you can ever find a clear single public statement by the Syrian government actually saying it's Lebanese territory, I would readjust my view on this. Have you ever found one?
To me, the lack of a Syrian public statement is telling, as is the Syrian refusal of the repeated UN requests to demarcate the boundaries. A Syrian official privately told the UN one thing in 2000 while Assad privately said the opposite in 2011. To me, the implication is that Syrian doesn't want to have a public position (that they want to keep the land as Syrian but while Israel occupies it, they can suggest in private but not say in public it's Lebanese territory). Obviously we can't say that. We can only state their position before 2000 that it was Syrian and then state the private indicators and private counter-indicators of their contradictory positions thereafter. It's fine to state the UN said a Syrian official said this and a diplomat said Assad said that while we should also note there does not appear to be a clear Syrian position publicly stated by the Syrian government.~~~ GreekParadise (talk) 17:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
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Removal of my Talk comment on “Jewish Voices for Peace”
Hello. You removed my comment in the talk section of “Jewish Voices for Peace” stating the criticism that the group has is not actually being Jewish (they non-Jewish members) but use their name to shield themselves from accusations of antisemitism be included in the article’s criticism section. This is a common criticism of the group (see the source I listed) and I don’t see why my comment was removed. Whether you believe this to be true should not be a factor in its inclusion. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 05:32, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
@71.179.129.209: You wrote "non-Jews can be members and make up the majority" but the source only says "some of the members of JVP are not Jews at all". Nothing about a majority. The first rule about choosing a source is that it supports the text you want to cite to it. Zero06:37, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Ok, remove “majority”. They have been criticized for using “Jewish” in their name to shield themselves from accusations of antisemitism (whether that is a valid criticism is another matter). Seems like something you should reply to my comment instead of deleting. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 05:38, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
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