Talk:Gary Webb: Difference between revisions

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			== Show the Artwork for the Dark Alliance Series ==
	The comments on the Kuro5hin article have many additional/related links. See , in particular - haven't gone through these though. --L

			It was "controversial" and "removed" by the paper. That makes it noteworthy, and it should be included in this Article. His paper might have been censored, but Misplaced Pages is not, and the absence of this graphic is noticeable, particularly given the circumstances and rumors of his death.
	==Comments by Andres Kargar==

			It was not censored or controversial because it was false, it was removed because it was TRUE. It should not also be absent from this Article, and for the same reason.
	Comments by Andres Kargar have been removed. Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox, chatroom, discussion forum, propaganda, advocacy of any kind, nor critical reviews, personal essays, primary research, or memorials. Please consult the edit history. Please read ]. Feel free to discuss improving this article on this page. --] \| ] 11:42, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
	:Comments in question are second from bottom in 'history', for the record. I have copied them to ] where they may help those writing that article. By the way, "What wikipedia is" is not exactly the same as what the Talk: pages are. ] 23:43, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
	::Actually, you're mistaken. See ]. ''On Misplaced Pages, the purpose of a talk page is to help to improve the contents of the main page, from an encyclopedic point of view. Questions, challenges, excised text (due to truly egregious confusion or bias, for example), arguments relevant to changing the text, and commentary on the main page are all fair play.Wikipedians generally oppose the use of talk pages just for the purpose of partisan talk about the main subject. Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox, it's an encyclopedia. In other words, talk about the article, not about the subject. It's only the habits we encourage that keep Misplaced Pages from turning into another H2G2 or Everything2.'' --] \| ] 00:47, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

			''"The website artwork showed the silhouette of a man smoking a crack pipe superimposed over the CIA seal."''
	== Missing references section ==

			] (]) 22:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
	The background for Dark Alliance is complicated and not easy to penetrate from a quick glance. Moreover, the picture changed drastically over time (in Webbs favor). The article should therefore have a good .

			:Not sure if it is copyrighted or not....but if not, it may be worth including.] (]) 23:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
	There still seems to be substantial confusion from the DoJ and CIA reports, which probably stems from the highly of the long documents (also see ). This should be mentioned in the references section, to avoid further confusion.

			== Complete Absence of Any "Lede" ==
	Also, the link collection (also mentioned above) is worth looking into further. --] \| ] 08:26, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

			I may be wrong, but as a years-long and frequent User of Misplaced Pages, my understanding of the function of the Lede is to provide a brief overview of the entire Article, so as to "invite the Reader to continue reading the Article", and for the most part, most Articles follow this format and function, however this Article does not, for. some. reason. Noticing patterns, and the absence thereof, is a thing.
	==Vinsci's lead vs. Viajero==
	===Vinsci===
	:'''Gary Webb''' (] – ], ]) was an ] investigative ] for 19 years, focusing on government and private sector corruption and winning more than 30 journalism awards. He was best known for his 1996 "Dark Alliance" newspaper article series (later published as a book under the same title) in which he explored the ]-] connection. His controversial and highly damaging revelations were disputed at the time and while later confirmed, the affair effectively ended his career as a journalist.

			Webb supposedly committed suicide, by shooting himself in the head, twice. Twice.
	===Viajero===
	:'''Gary Webb''' (] – ], ]) was an ] investigative ] best known for his 1996 "Dark Alliance" series for the '']'' in which he explored the ]-] connection (it was later published as a book under the same title). His controversial and highly damaging revelations were disputed at the time, and the affair effectively ended his career as a journalist.

			You'd think that a Misplaced Pages Article that follows standard format and protocols would put that fact about his life (and death) prominently in the Lede, and yet for. some. reason. this Article does NOT. I wonder to what extent the CIA is involved in the editing of Misplaced Pages Articles, such as this one.] (]) 13:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	See also: ]

			:If your issue is the fact we don't mention the double shot suicide in the LEAD....I don't see the problem. The LEAD rarely rehashes every detail in the article. We go into that later on within the article.] (]) 18:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)


	:Viajero's version lacks the ring of truth that should be expected in an open source capsule. The facts referenced by Vinsci were later verified nearly point by point in the evidence uncovered by commission reports, which actually revealed that the scope of the CIA's operation was much larger than the shard Webb reported on. The commission reports went out of their way to downplay their own findings. The fact that Webb was actually vindicated received little press coverage, especially when compared to the unbridled backlash against Webb that also happened to prompt the Mercury News to disown him. Most mainstream press reports after Webb's death continued in this vein, as has Viajero. ] 06:54, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

	::I am quite aware that Webb has been largely vindicated. Please note operative phrase '''at the time'''. I am sure it isn't necessary to spell this out for you, but it implies that people ''think differently now'', that is to say, the revelations are now longer rejected out of hand. I think it is safe to assume our readers have the cognitive abilities to parse this statement correctly and reach this conclusion on their own. -- ] 08:46, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
	:::Excellent point. --] \| ] 10:34, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

	== Bibliography ==

	===Archives of articles by Gary Webb===
	*Sacramento News & Report
	:* (Cover story, ) 14th October 2004
	:*and others...
	*BBC News
	:Shortly before his death, Webb was asked by the BBC to comment on the U.S. presidential election 2004 on a 'U.S. voters panel'. This was a series of short commentaries.
	:*BBC Election Coverage (see voter's view section)

	::*Webb on 30th July 2004
	::*Webb on 6th September 2004
	::*Webb on 1st October 2004
	::*Webb on 9th October 2004
	::*Webb on 14th Ocotber 2004
	::*Webb on 29th Ocotber 2004 (
	::::''"When the BBC asked me to be on this voter panel, I had no intention of voting. Rejecting both candidates is the only honest choice in that case. George Bush did all of those things, unapologetically, to this nation's everlasting disgrace. That's why I'm voting for John Kerry."''
	::*Webb on 5th November 2004
	:Panel comments he didn't participate in are omitted.

	===Book reviews===
	*Dark Alliance
	:* Glenn Garvin: '''' (January 1999) ]
	::Venomous critique, ridicules the author and the story while at the same time omitting supportive evidence, such as the secret CIA/DoJ agreement of 1982, North's diary entry that 14 million USD to finance arms came from drugs, CIA's confessions, etc. Discusses the .ni side of the story. Also mentions 1980's lawsuits that were dropped - followup.
	::*Compare (Project Censored, 1986)

	:* Uri Dowbenko: '''' (2001) ]
	::Written in a matter of factly manner. Interesting, many references. Followup.

	===Comments in media at the time===
	*
	* by FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting), Jan/Feb 1997.
	:*Article sidebar 1: (from Internet Archive)
	:::On blaming it on "black paranoia". Another "must read", also mentions AP (12/20/85) and CBS News (West 57th, 4/6/87, 7/11/87) stories on CIA-backed contras and cocain trade and CIA participation in opium trafficing in Southeast Asia (The Politics of Heroin, Alfred W. McCoy).
	:*Article sidebar 2: (from Internet Archive)
	:::] described Pincus as a journalist "who some in the agency refer to as 'the CIA's house reporter.'"
	:Highly interesting, comments on the media reactions to the story. Interesting quote from Post owner at the end, from a speech given at CIA headquarters: "We live in a dirty and dangerous world," Graham told agency leaders (Regardie's Magazine,1/90). "There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows.".


	More to come... --] 12:52, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

	:Classic. I added it to ]. -- ] 22:30, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

	===Articles mentioning Webb (from 2005 onwards)===
	*, by Rem Reider, ''American Journalism Review'', April/May 2005
	::Note: also mentions a story on Gary Webb on p. 20: "The Sad Saga of Gary Webb". This doesn't seem to be up on the web yet.
	* ('The Last Rebel' in print edition) , by Robert Chalmers ''The Independent'', 9 October 2005. Interview with the widow of Gary Webb that takes an in-depth look at Webb's story and especially the wrath he endured from U.S. media outlets and Intelligence Establishment.

	== 2x ext links Sacbee ==

	I have reorganized the external links. Given the large number links we now have, I we can afford to be selective and I have moved these two here:
	*, ''Sacramento Bee''
	*, ''Sacramento Bee''
	If any one feels strongly they should be included, please state your reasons and we can discuss it. -- ] 09:31, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
	:They should be moved to a "Notes" section and used as footnote references. I'll get around to it some time (anyone is welcome to help). Feel free to leave them here, for now. --] \| ] 09:46, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

	== Current CIA and drugs connection stories ==

	*{{Citenewsauthor \| surname=Schou \| given=Nick \| title=Dr. Death Revisited. In French TV documentary, ex-CIA official admits ties to CIA-cocaine scandal character. \| date=April 29 - May 5, 2005 \| org=OC Weekly \| url=http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/05/34/news-schou2.php }}

	== Removed Jack Anderson link? ==

	Several days ago I included a link to the ] wiki page and it has since been removed, why?
	:Perhaps because it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic?--] 17:12, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
	::A journalist elements within the US government planned on assassinating has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of Gary Webb?
	:::Is there an echo in here?
	:::Seriously, did Gary Webb report on this? Did Gary Webb have anything to do with this? If so, let us know, but so far there is no link whatsoever.--] 06:18, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
	::::Thank you for answering my earlier question. sarcasm
	::::But you are right, Gary Webb did not report on the planned assassination of Jack Anderson, in fact I'm fairly certain Webb was not even a journalist when that occurred, but considering some of the claims regarding Webbs death and the known facts regarding certain elements within the Nixon administration and their intentions toward Jack Anderson, as well as the fact that there is already a link to another journalist who died under mysterious circumstances in the early 1990s on the Gary Webb page as well as a link to Gary Webb on the Jack Anderson page, I think it is pertinent and should be included.--] 06:03, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
	:::::My apologies if I am being dense, but I just don't understand. Did Gary Webb have anything to do with Jack Anderson? Is your claim that this belongs here just because it is another mysterious death that could have been an assassination? If we include all such folks here the list would be practically endless. If there are other such links they should be removed too -- I think this article should be about Gary Webb, not about mysterious deaths or conspiracy theories in general. --] 20:52, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
	::::::My apologies if I am being dense, but if we were to remove references to "mysterious deaths" then all references to Mr. Webbs suicide would need to be removed. No, Webb did not have anything to do with Jack Anderson. "Is your claim that this belongs here just because it is another mysterious death that could have been an assassination" - I suggest you read again: Jack Anderson is not dead, they merely planned to kill him. As for “conspiracy theories”, well I seem to recall that’s the slur they used against Gary Webb, despite being vindicated by a subsequent CIA investigation in 1998 and a previous investigation by Senator John Kerry in 1987.--] 12:38, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
	:::::::Dude you are barking up the wrong tree. I am not trying to be pejorative about conspiracy theories; just suggesting that this information belongs in a different category. This page is about Webb, and if it is about any "conspiracy theory" it is just about such theories that are relevant to Webb. Jack Anderson had nothing to do with Gary Webb, therefore he doesn't belong here. How hard is that to understand? Can someone else please engage this conversation so I know I am not going nuts here? --] 03:17, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
	::::::::"This page is about Webb, and if it is about any "conspiracy theory" it is just about such theories that are relevant to Webb." applying this logic of yours to my argument, it makes perfect sense to include a link to the Jack Anderson page. --] 17:23, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
	What the hell are you on about? Does anyone else understand this claim? Am I missing something here? As far as I can tell, there is nothing directly connecting Webb and Anderson other than a vague similarity of circumstances? Please, someone else intervene in this discussion.--] 07:14, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

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Show the Artwork for the Dark Alliance Series

It was "controversial" and "removed" by the paper. That makes it noteworthy, and it should be included in this Article. His paper might have been censored, but Misplaced Pages is not, and the absence of this graphic is noticeable, particularly given the circumstances and rumors of his death.

It was not censored or controversial because it was false, it was removed because it was TRUE. It should not also be absent from this Article, and for the same reason.

"The website artwork showed the silhouette of a man smoking a crack pipe superimposed over the CIA seal."

2603:8081:3A00:414A:3C79:55E:B074:23B7 (talk) 22:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Not sure if it is copyrighted or not....but if not, it may be worth including.Rja13ww33 (talk) 23:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Complete Absence of Any "Lede"

I may be wrong, but as a years-long and frequent User of Misplaced Pages, my understanding of the function of the Lede is to provide a brief overview of the entire Article, so as to "invite the Reader to continue reading the Article", and for the most part, most Articles follow this format and function, however this Article does not, for. some. reason. Noticing patterns, and the absence thereof, is a thing.

Webb supposedly committed suicide, by shooting himself in the head, twice. Twice.

You'd think that a Misplaced Pages Article that follows standard format and protocols would put that fact about his life (and death) prominently in the Lede, and yet for. some. reason. this Article does NOT. I wonder to what extent the CIA is involved in the editing of Misplaced Pages Articles, such as this one.70.94.140.138 (talk) 13:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

If your issue is the fact we don't mention the double shot suicide in the LEAD....I don't see the problem. The LEAD rarely rehashes every detail in the article. We go into that later on within the article.Rja13ww33 (talk) 18:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

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