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Revision as of 17:17, 22 January 2016 editShearonink (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers41,354 edits →Suicide: cmt← Previous edit Latest revision as of 08:10, 8 January 2025 edit undoCewbot (talk | contribs)Bots7,707,122 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}}: 5 WikiProject templates. (Fix Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell with unknown parameters)Tag: Talk banner shell conversion 
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== Show the Artwork for the Dark Alliance Series ==
== Scope of CIA-OIG report ==

There is a lot that can be said about the scope of the CIAO-OIG report, but most of it is in the report and does not need to be added into the article. I think that scope in the sense of what the OIG looked for should be in the article. It seems unnecessary to add a description of what was removed in order to declassify the report. Interested readers can look at the link. Please try to avoid adding information that is already in the article. ] (]) 06:35, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

== More on suicide ==


It was "controversial" and "removed" by the paper. That makes it noteworthy, and it should be included in this Article. His paper might have been censored, but Misplaced Pages is not, and the absence of this graphic is noticeable, particularly given the circumstances and rumors of his death.
How to describe Webb's suicide is the most common source of changes to the article, almost all of them attempting to impose editors' belief that Webb did not commit suicide by removing the word suicide or putting it in scare quotes. Without any discussion on the talk page or sources in the article, this type of NPOV editing should just be reverted. ] (]) 03:50, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


It was not censored or controversial because it was false, it was removed because it was TRUE. It should not also be absent from this Article, and for the same reason.
:Unfortunately, the case of Gary Webb could just as easily be described as "Cause and Effect" as it could be described as "Flawless CIA Technique." We will probably never know what really happened, but it's difficult to believe that his death was suicide, to me. Certainly, a life that seemed to spiral downward after he implicated the CIA, ending in suicide, just seems a little bit too convenient. On the other hand, surely the CIA would have made every effort to make the death look like a suicide... so why the double-tap? That would certainly lead to questions as to the nature of the death. Perhaps a Third Party with ulterior motives? This is one of the most perplexing issues that I have ever seen. <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 06:06, 5 September 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


''"The website artwork showed the silhouette of a man smoking a crack pipe superimposed over the CIA seal."''
::We do know what "really happened". Webb's actions prior to his death indicate that he was suicidal. His first shot was non-fatal; the second nicked an artery. ] is already linked in the article. - ] (]) 16:51, 9 September 2015 (UTC)


] (]) 22:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
== Justice, CIA, House reports ==


:Not sure if it is copyrighted or not....but if not, it may be worth including.] (]) 23:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
The results of the Justice, CIA, and House Intelligence Committee reports are an integral part of this article. The reports are not beyond criticism, but criticism should have a reliable source and should be presented NPOV. If there is a problem with the current presentation, feel free to change; having spent some time on this part of the article I would appreciate a note on the talk page explaining the problems you saw, but that's optional of course. On the other hand, to simply delete the conclusions of the report that you find inconvenient, without any note or discussion, is not acceptable editing practice. ] (]) 04:00, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
:Does that mean we should have just as many Russian intelligence sources on ]? Should we just regard allegations of his death being perpetrated by Russia as nothing more than conspiracy theories? ] (]) 21:29, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
::Given that Webb leveled allegations against the CIA, the government response to those allegations is certainly appropriate and is likely covered in secondary sources anyway. Regardless, mainstream non-governmental sources, including Webb's own paper, also reported that Webb's allegations were lacking credibility. What is applicable to another article should certainly be raised on that article's talk page. - ] (]) 21:43, 30 June 2015 (UTC)


== Complete Absence of Any "Lede" ==
:::I'm not sure of the point of the comment. It seems to be an objection to the article's description of the report by the CIA's Office of the Inspector General. The commenter compares this to giving space in the article on Boris Nemtsov to "Russian intelligence sources", and feels this is not appropriate. If that really is the point, I'll respond, since I put in the section on the CIA-OIG report.


I may be wrong, but as a years-long and frequent User of Misplaced Pages, my understanding of the function of the Lede is to provide a brief overview of the entire Article, so as to "invite the Reader to continue reading the Article", and for the most part, most Articles follow this format and function, however this Article does not, for. some. reason. Noticing patterns, and the absence thereof, is a thing.
:::IF the FSB had a statuorily independent Inspector General, and IF this hypothetical IG had power to compel the testimony of FSB officers under oath and under polygraph, and IF the hypothetical IG used his hypothetical powers to conduct an 18 month investigation which produced a 400+ page report on the assassination of Nemtsov, and IF this hypothetical report were made public in any form, non-redacted or redacted, and IF the hypothetical IG testified on the hypothetical report before a hypothetical Committee on Intelligence in the Russian Duma which had the hypothetical power to sentence him to prison if he committed perjury, then I would strongly favor a detailed description of the report and all the attendant circumstances in the Misplaced Pages article on Nemtsov, in a manner consistent with the description of the CIA-OIG report given in this article.


Webb supposedly committed suicide, by shooting himself in the head, twice. Twice.
:::Unfortunately, there is no Committee, no IG, no report, and no powers to do these things in Russia, hence no opportunity to write about them in Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 10:25, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


You'd think that a Misplaced Pages Article that follows standard format and protocols would put that fact about his life (and death) prominently in the Lede, and yet for. some. reason. this Article does NOT. I wonder to what extent the CIA is involved in the editing of Misplaced Pages Articles, such as this one.] (]) 13:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
== Suicide ==


:If your issue is the fact we don't mention the double shot suicide in the LEAD....I don't see the problem. The LEAD rarely rehashes every detail in the article. We go into that later on within the article.] (]) 18:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Everyone knows he was killed by the CIA <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 11:49, 19 January 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Many people would not agree: his wife, his children, his biographer, and most of his friends have said they think he killed himself. To put your claim into the article, you need to come up with a reliable source (WP:RS will describe what that is). Without RS, the article will not incorporate your claim, unless/until Misplaced Pages abandons this policy. ] (]) 16:28, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:What ] said^^^... An anonymous posting on a Misplaced Pages page is insufficient referencing for something everyone supposedly knows... ] (]) 17:17, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 08:10, 8 January 2025

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Show the Artwork for the Dark Alliance Series

It was "controversial" and "removed" by the paper. That makes it noteworthy, and it should be included in this Article. His paper might have been censored, but Misplaced Pages is not, and the absence of this graphic is noticeable, particularly given the circumstances and rumors of his death.

It was not censored or controversial because it was false, it was removed because it was TRUE. It should not also be absent from this Article, and for the same reason.

"The website artwork showed the silhouette of a man smoking a crack pipe superimposed over the CIA seal."

2603:8081:3A00:414A:3C79:55E:B074:23B7 (talk) 22:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Not sure if it is copyrighted or not....but if not, it may be worth including.Rja13ww33 (talk) 23:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Complete Absence of Any "Lede"

I may be wrong, but as a years-long and frequent User of Misplaced Pages, my understanding of the function of the Lede is to provide a brief overview of the entire Article, so as to "invite the Reader to continue reading the Article", and for the most part, most Articles follow this format and function, however this Article does not, for. some. reason. Noticing patterns, and the absence thereof, is a thing.

Webb supposedly committed suicide, by shooting himself in the head, twice. Twice.

You'd think that a Misplaced Pages Article that follows standard format and protocols would put that fact about his life (and death) prominently in the Lede, and yet for. some. reason. this Article does NOT. I wonder to what extent the CIA is involved in the editing of Misplaced Pages Articles, such as this one.70.94.140.138 (talk) 13:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

If your issue is the fact we don't mention the double shot suicide in the LEAD....I don't see the problem. The LEAD rarely rehashes every detail in the article. We go into that later on within the article.Rja13ww33 (talk) 18:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
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