Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:46, 30 May 2007

Esperanza is officially inactive. Please send any comments about it or the essay on the front page to Misplaced Pages's Village pump.

This project page was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: Restore histories, uphold original closure, 2007-01-12, see Deletion review. Decentralize, see page for details, 2006-12-28, see Miscellany for deletion. No consensus, 2006-11-14, see Miscellany for deletion.

Archives

Archives before October 1, 2006 Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6 Archive 7 Archive 8 Archive 9 Archive 10 Archive 11 Archive 12 Archive 13 Archives after October 1, 2006 October 2006 November 2006 December 2006 Post organisation discussions January 2007 February 2007 April 2007 May 2007 Other archived talk pages Collaboration of the Month Full list of EA pages

The Collaboration of the Month has been redirected to Article Creation and Improvement Drive.

The disposition of Esperanza's other programs is displayed below...

• Barnstar Brigade - deleted
• Stress Alerts - active, standalone
• Admin Coaching - active, standalone *
• Coffee Lounge - deleted
• To-Do-List - redirected to Misplaced Pages:Pages needing attention
• Userpage Award - archived
• Reach Out - active, standalone
• Stressbusters - archived
• Calendar - active, now part of the Birthday Committee
• Tutorial Drive
• Trading Spaces

 * See also: Misplaced Pages:Adopt-a-User

Is community building still important?

Following Esperanza's deletion, is community building still important? The essay should answer this question - especially if the answer is yes. After all, since the essay adequately discusses the negative aspects of Esperanza (for example, the last paragraph), it fails to discuss the positive aspects of Esperanza, so someone reading the essay may get the impression that community building should not occur on Misplaced Pages. (If that's the case, I rest my case.) --Kaypoh 14:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Community building is important, but in Misplaced Pages, most discussions and the community should revlove around improving articles and policies. A downside of Esperanza was that there were areas devoted entirely to "socializing", and user page contests and barnstar brigades were a distraction from everything else. Also, the leadership, I heard was bureaucratic and is something Misplaced Pages is not. Those were some reasons why Esperanza was nominated for deletion back then.--Kylohk 20:16, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for answering my question. I think the essay should include that community building is still important but discussions and the community should revlove around improving articles and policies. --Kaypoh 05:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, community building is still important around here. Perhaps we can add a paragraph about the importance of community building, along with your suggestion about improving articles and policies. Moreover, we can add more information that would describe what Esperanza actually tried to do, as you suggested. While major aspects of ESP were bad, some parts of it did have positive effects on the community.--Ed 15:08, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree, a historical page isn't that historical if just mentions something "has been there". A detailed chronology might be a good idea for all those who appeared to click on those green links.--Kylohk 14:34, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Careful, there was a conflict about the contents of this essay that lasted for months and only ended recently. My thoughts regarding community building is that it develops quite naturally as a process of collaborating with other people in the development of the encyclopedia. Please reconsider your desire to change the essay. I strongly urge you to. If you don't believe me, look at Misplaced Pages talk:Esperanza/Mediation to see just how divisive an issue this is. --Kyoko 22:19, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

No need at all to re-write the essay, the recent mediation into this was a painful process and as Kyoko stated - it ony ended recently, the Esparanza project is a done deal - let's put it to bed and keep it that way. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:23, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps Kylohk and Kaypoh are not aware that this essay has been the subject of edit wars. Any attempt to rewrite the essay or turn it into a detailed chronology would probably re-ignite the edit wars. Nevertheless, I support the addition of a sentence (or up to a paragraph) emphasising that community building is still important, but that the encyclopedia comes first. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 07:04, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, a detailed chronology might not be necessary, but given that two uninvolved users were already confused about the essay, maybe we should consider their recommendations. I still stand strong on my opinion for community building and a short summary describing Esperanza's history.--Ed 18:29, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

If it's so confusing maybe we should put it back to the original then. There was nothing confusing about that. DevAlt 14:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I would be okay with the original essay as long as we add in some extra stuff about how Esperanza actually tried to improve the community, add sources, and still stay in check with the MfD. And why are you using an alternate account???--Ed 15:36, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, that might be going too far, but I recommend the following edit:

Its goal was to indirectly support the encyclopedia by providing support and other assistance for Wikipedians in need, and by strengthening Misplaced Pages's sense of community. To fulfill this goal, Esperanza initiated numerous programs, which can be seen on Misplaced Pages talk:Esperanza.

This would then require us to remove the sentence that I proposed earlier this month. If this edit is made, then it would reduce the amount of confusion arising from other editors. On the matter of a community building project, I propose the following paragraph:

While Esperanza was decentralized for numerous reasons as stated in the second Miscellany for deletion nomination, it should be noted that community building is still important in Misplaced Pages because it encourages collaboration and cooperation. A large organization is not necessary to build the community that the average editor can build him/herself with other users. In addition, a Wikipedian community should be a cooperative movement to improve the encyclopedia, not a social chatting group.

This paragraph combines the ideas from the original essay, my statements, Dev's statements, and the ideas of other editors who have participated in the debate. I hope that this will be satisfactory to all parties...-Ed 15:51, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Please don't change the essay any further than the Steve Block version, for reasons that are obvious even on this very page. If you feel that you must state something about the community, I suggest adding this on at the very end, after the "Let this essay be a warning...":

"Despite the dissolution of Esperanza, community remains an important and even necessary part of a collaborative project such as Misplaced Pages. Community building should however be a byproduct of the cooperative work on the encyclopedia, rather than the primary goal of Wikipedians. Editors should also remember that Esperanza did not have a monopoly on community spirit; any person who has ever greeted or complimented another person is displaying a sense of community."

Yes, the added text has a POV, but hopefully this will address the concerns about community spirit while making it clear that the community is more than Esperanza.

And yes, I know I had said that I was ready to walk away from this essay, but I'm trying to nip this conflict in the bud. Serves me right for having a watchlist with over 2030 items. --Kyoko 16:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't support that at all. And from now on, I refuse to accept any blame whatsoever for the extension of this dispute. Everything was dead, a version was agreed upon, the mediation was closed... and Ed decided to start it up all over again. Leave the article protected and ignore him. DevAlt 16:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)