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Military history: North America / United States Start‑class

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The last evidence

Both Native American and Federal testimonies show that Washita was a great battle and that soldiers took good measures to prevent the killing of women and children. Several soldiers (reported by soldier Spotts of 19th Kansas) said that it was Custer's orders to protect civilians. (read Jerome Greene's book "Washita")

There's no controversy about this battle. It's only bad anti-US propaganda.

Battle

The military engagement on Washita River, 27 November 1868, was a battle as combatants on both sides were killed. Major Elliott may have believed he was in a desperate battle but since all in his command were killed maybe it was a massacre. The warriors who killed them were proud of their victory in battle. Warriors of the period usually killed all of their opponents, combatant or not. It was the way they waged war. To say that the federal government used any excuse to break a treaty is rather naive. Unsigned comment by 66.138.40.134

General Custer

General Custer, a Civil War Medal of Honor recipient, did good. It was a victorious battle for the great United States. The 7th Cavalry was a strong unit that helped bring the attention of the dangers of the frontier to the United States.

Correction

For information, General Custer wasn't a Medal of Honor recipient, but his brother Thomas Ward Custer was. Custer did indeed a very good job during the Civil War before losing the famous battle of the Little Bighorn.

Custer's Cruelty

Custer was noted as being extremely depressed and saw his military career coming to an end. He craved the attention he had earned as a general in the Civil War, but the glory was fading away. He found a way to put himself back into the American spotlight as the most famous "Indian fighter". He surprise attacked Chief Black Kettle inside of Indian Territory, territory set aside for Native Americans. The Cheyenne chief even flew an American flag over his TP. Colonel Custer achieved his only military victory over Native American's that day and did not achieve any more victories.

The statement above is full of lies

According to Historian Jerome Greene's "Washita 1868", Black Kettle's Indians were guilty of numerous massacres against civilians in Kansas, Oklahoma and Colorado. Black Kettle never held any American flag near his teepee. Custer won two others victories against Sitting Bull in Yellowstone (Wyoming) in 1873. Jerome Greene stated that the Washita encounter was done by the soldiers with "measures to avoid the killing of women and children."

Further Reading on the Washita and other frontier campaigns

"INDIAN FIGHTS AND FIGHTERS" by Cyrus Townsend Brady, LL.D.; with an introduction by James T King
1971 Bison Book Edition, BB538, University of Nebraska Press.Lincoln/London
ISBN 0-8032-5743-0 pbk.
Library of Congress Catolog Card Number 74-156373
Original first edition published by McClure, Phillips & Co. in 1904

The book contains accounts from participants in The Battle of the Washita: officers & enlisted men. It has first hand accounts of many major battles and campaigns between the US Army and Native American Indians. The accounts are graphic and interesting, with thoughts and details from those who were there. It also contains accounts of some battles as told by Native American Indians who were participants. The book also contains maps of battle sites, drawn by participants; including a map of the Little Bighorn Battle, drawn by Rain-In-The-Face(also his account of the battle).Ratzamatatza 21:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

NPOV

NPOV dispute: As a scientist, I find it difficult to believe a scholar would use Custer's own journal as evidence to incriminate Indians. This reference, mistaken as factual, is given undue attention and space compared to others. I recommend: Misplaced Pages:NPOV tutorial#Space and balance.

Historian Jerome Greene's analysis

Jerome Greene's latest book on the Washita denies the "massacre" charges and put Indian testimonies which agree that it was a fierce battle. Indian prisoners told interpreter Dick Curtis that as many as 11 WARCHIEFS were killed during the fight, which suggest large warriors casualties. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.21.9.178 (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Major overhaul necessary

I think this article requires a major overhaul. As noted before, basing the depiction chiefly on Custer's own account must necessarily create a biased viewpoint. In my view the section "The cause: Black Kettle's war against Kansas" is grossly distortive: 1.)Black Kettle was no war chief, 2.) He was not present with any war party in Kansas, 3.) He didn't send any warriors on the warpath, 4.) He was the chief man of the "peace faction" among the Cheyennes, he even signed peace treaties which gave away 90% of Cheyenne land to avoid further bloodshed. As a consequence his standing among the Indians suffered greatly. That was the reason why his camp had to stay at the Washita river several miles downstream from the other camps. It is true that Black Kettle was unable to stop young men from his cmap to join war parties. Making "Black Kettle's war against Kansas" out of this is not worthy of Misplaced Pages's standards.

Likewise, the casualty figures are manifestly wrong. Greene's book has a good overview on this question. The Cheyennes named every victim by name. Custer just added body counts of different soldiers (each of them counting the same killed indians again and again) and upped them at will. Most likely 11 Cheyenne men, 2 Arapaho men, 9 Cheyenne women, 2 Sioux women and 5 children were killed, altogether under 30, not more than 130 as Custer claimed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lookoo (talk • contribs) 11:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

False

Black Kettle WAS a chief of tribe, his tribe WAS at war in 1868 according to Little Rock, second-in-command in the village, who testified on November 19, 1868, about the depredations commited by bands. Indian prisoners gave to Interpreter Dick Curtis the name of eleven warchiefs killed, not the overall number. More : http://custer.over-blog.com/categorie-10017999.html

"The troops burst into the village, cutting down the Indians as they fled their lodges. The soldiers were also hit: one captain was killed by a bullet in the chest, and another was severely wounded in the abdomen. Maj. Elliot cut loose with 18 men of various companies to chase some Indianswho had escaped to the east, reportedly calling out, "Here goes for a brevet or a coffin". Elliot was cut off and his party killed. During the battle, the Cheyennes killed two of four white captives. It is uncertain whether Custer was able to rescue the other two. After soldiers killed Chiefs Black Kettle and Little Rock, Custer captured the camp, burned tipis and supplies, and shot 875 Indian ponies. As more Indians gathered from other camps downriver, Custer made a feint downstream, sending them back to protect their villages. Doubling back in the gathering darkness, Custer returned to his supply train and headed home, reaching Camp supply on 1 December. Custer captured 53 women and children during the mission and reported 103 Indians killed"

Gregory F. Michno, ENCYCLOPEDIA of Indian Wars 1850-1890, pages 226-227

Custerwest

False?

"Black Kettle WAS a chief of tribe", yes, he was one of 44 peace chiefs of the Cheyenne nation, one of four peace chiefs of his band. You should make yourself a little bit more aquainted with his policy and what impact this had on his standing within the tribe. Already in 1867 he was much ridiculed for his peace stance and commanded little authority in wider Cheyenne circles (Greene, page 45).

"his tribe WAS at war in 1868 according to Little Rock". Who exactly was at war? When a couple of young men from his band joined the dog soldiers against his express will, this doesn't mean Black kettle was at war with the whites.

"Indian prisoners gave to Interpreter Dick Curtis the name of eleven warchiefs killed, not the overall number." Instead of linking to your own blog I would like to have some meaningful source here. Which chiefs then? This is easily verifiable. You won't find 11 Cheyenne chiefs present at Black Kettle's band and even less so all killed in the battle.

Jerome Greene writes: "Custer's prisoners later reported that thirteen men, besides two sioux and an arapaho, had been killed at the Washita, but evidentl they gave no figure for noncombatant losses. George Bent revised the tribal testimony over several years and arrived at 13 men killed, 12 women and five children, thus 30 Indian casualties overall, finally revised to 29, "a number that does not appear unreasonable"(Greene p.136)

Concerning those white captives, isn't it strange that we learn so very little about them, their names and their fate? Where were they buried? What happened to the surviving ones if they were really present What were their names?

User:Lookoo

Overhaul started

I have started the overhaul now since I can't see who would do it otherwise. The entire approach in presenting the issue seems substandard to me and rather an appendix to some Custer glorification. It is unacceptable to take the clearly propagandistic accounts of only one side as the facts material as has happened in this article. I will revamp the article to a more balanced depiction in several increments as time permits. I kindly request all those who disagree to dicuss ad not engage in undue edit wars. Thank you!

User:Lookoo

White captives

I won't accept a complete rewriting of the article without other evidences than George Bent, whose bias towards Native Americans is well known. Colonel Nelson Miles wrote a letter about the two white boys being freed. He wrote that the two boys were in poor condition, because they were probably starving during their custody. Miss Blinn and her child were discovered by the men of 19th Kansas near the location where Black Kettle had been killed, according to 7th cavalry members. An autopsy of both bodies was performed by Dr Lippincott, who said that Willie Blinn, two-years-old boy, had been smashed against a tree by the Cheyennes. General Custer stated about a white child being killed in the village and a white woman, captive, being killed too.

I wonder if the "more balanced" view will ne bot a complete rewriting of history in favor of Indians.

Indian prisoners told Dick Curtis that 13 warchiefs (including Little Rock and Black Kettle) were killed at the battle. Black Kettle himself said that his warriors were killing settlers. A "peaceful" chief isn't in a village full of warriors who are killing settlers.

It's not because Hollywood have decided to rewrite every historical fact in Indian favor that it's true. Black Kettle's involvment in the massacres was well-known.

Evidences - http://www.custerwest.org

Custerwest 17:26, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I beg to differ, it is well known that indian tribal behaviour was not always unitary. The younger warriors frequently took a lead of their own in what might be called military matters. They did not simply follow the lead of Village chiefs. it is quite within the bounds of probability that younger more aggressive men were dissatisfied with what was occurring and took it uppon themselves to go off and make war on their enemies, if you look at entries about leaders such as about Chief Joseph or Rain in the Face this is clearly what was happening, The Young warriors decided war policy not the chiefs. Read up about the dog soldiers. I have made some changes to bring this article more into line with other Wiki Articles on related areas.

If you want to suggest that this is all down to the fault of naughty Indians who refused to keep to agreements, or to suggest that this was simply a massacre, you really ought to go and search out and change a lot of articles on the Indian Wars. And not just this one otherwise you are being inconsistent, and making Misplaced Pages inconsistent too. Don't forget for example to change the entry where Custer says he has sympathies towards the Indians who resisted.

I also suggest that looking at why the indians may have acted as they did, is a lot more NPOV then simply looking at it from an American determination of their actions. - Anton Mon/25/Jun/2007

Modern US Army version

I actually don't really know if "the Indians lost perhaps 50 killed and as many wounded" covers the civilians or not. --HanzoHattori 17:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

So I decided "up to 75" total (maybe an overstimate, but well). --HanzoHattori 16:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Who is editing this page?

I wonder who's the idiot who's editing the page and taking the footnotes off. Gosh, is it an encyclopedia or not? FOOTNOTES are history. Modern accounts of the battle doesn't put any 75 dead etc. What's wrong with you? Account of the battle put Cheyennes casualties to more than 100, or closer to 100 warriors killed (historian Jeffry Wert). The "modern US army version" is a simple website, it's not serious... Is anyone here doing some researchs?

http://www.custerwest.org Custerwest 16:25, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

My dear little revisionist: CMH is a very serious US Army agency. Send your grievances to: --HanzoHattori 17:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

My God, it's the worse example of ignorance I've ever seen. People are STUDYING the battle with primary sources. Do you know what historian means ? Members of my website are historians and doctors in history. I've written a book myself. I was putting footnotes and original quotes and you deleted all with nonsense like "Comanche campaign". It's totally false. You have but a website, made by people who just gathered what they heard about the battle. It's not a serious work. It's not a work of historian. Where are your footnotes ? Your real work ? Your quotes ? You even didn't say anything about Black Kettle's white captives. Do you know what you're talking about ? Surely no. If Misplaced Pages editors are like you, the credibility of the whole encyclopedia drops. Custerwest 18:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I told you, tell this to Brig. Gen. John S. Brown. According to him, he and his institute "remain mindful of the Center’s responsibility to publish an accurate and objective account," so don't forget to call him "idiot" or "monkey", and to threaten to kick his "damn ass". --HanzoHattori 19:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I've read the holy gospel of the US Center command. Especially the page where it's said that "Custer led his regiment toward the Little Bighorn, no one is certain what his real hopes and ambitions were; but it is clear that his goal, as ever, was personal glory. Unfortunately, he and most of his command were killed to gain that fame." Every Little Bighorn historian can say that for the story of the Little Bighorn, it's ZERO. Custerwest 19:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Dear "Custerwest":

1. You can not question the US Army's official history of the US Army. It's their job to document and research their own history. Not yours. They have access to all the archives and documents, because all of these is theirs. You can't whitewash their findings ("accurate and objective"), not to mention the sources like these:
2. The sources from the XIXth and early XXth century are POV and outdated. Everything by Custer is obviously POV too, and if dissmissed by his own army, untrue.
3. You can not cite blogs.
4. Especially your own.
5. What you can use are the other modern official sources.
6. You could also make a section about the past deciptions of the event, including outdated official sources, or even modern historians (real, not some blogs in French) if there's controversy in relation to the current government version. But this doesn't matter, because:
7. I'm not playing edit-warring. As soon as you are banned (and you're going to be), I am reverting, so don't bother.

Also a parting word of advice: don't try to "kick damn asses" of the "idiot monkeys" in uniform, because they will either jail you or shoot you. Or both. --HanzoHattori 20:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure who is right here. But the contradictions between different sources are rather common. Why not represent several alternative versions in the article, if each one of them is supported by sources that satisfy WP:SOURCE? For example, the number of Indian warriers who died may be not known for sure. So, why not indicate the number as 70 to 150 for example? Hanzo, anyone can "question the US Army's official history" in WP, based on appropriate sources. US Army is not an ultimate authority about historical events, just as Russian Army, etc. How about book by General Troshev? Biophys 20:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

No, it's kind of source which is critical to the Custer's own account of Custer. "Custerwest"'s sources (his own blog and the outdated sources from 1924 and 1938) are all whitewash to keep with Custer line (which was rejected by his own army later). This including the whitewashing causes (white expansion, Sand Creek) and aims of the war (what US Army now calls "complete destruction of Indian culture", and says even the soldiers and officers were uneasy about this at the time), and results of the battle (causing many more further deaths among the survivors, more than in combat), while at the same time demonising the other side. Compare: and

And yes, he cites the sources of at least 70-80 years ago to write the white men were "murdered" in "massacres", while the Indian men were "killed" after being "ordered to be killed". Capturing white women and children, and killing some of them, was bad, but capturing Indian women and children,and killing some of them, was alright. Outrageous Sand Creek massacre (Black Kettle and his people were survivors, and it was unprovoked and truly horrific - dead unborn children taken as tropheas by the militiamen, for example) is not even mentioned.

To go along the Troshev example: it's like the Russian Army suddenly criticised the exploits of Russian general Troshev in their official history, and some "Troshevsouth" came to dissmiss this as "not serious", citing instead what Troshev said of wrote about Troshev, and what pro-Troshev sources wrote about him (not 70+ years ago, but, say, 12 years in Krasnaya Zvezda articles). --HanzoHattori 21:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for answer. I looked at "Custerwest" web site. Looks indeed as POV and self-promotion in Misplaced Pages by custerwest. Certainly, we do not want any unreliable information here. If he is trying to dispute generally accepted things (which seems to be the case), he must provide reliable and up-todate sources, and do not curse and conduct edit wars, but try to find consensus at the talk page. Biophys 21:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I took a look too, and I must say love how he calls Washita "anti-terror campaign". Just... wow. Maybe he's so angry it was qualified by the editors as part of Comanche Campaign and not "War on Terrorism". Actually, according to the US Army now, it was more of a terror campaign in order to "completely destroy the Indian culture" (see: cultural genocide). --HanzoHattori 23:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, according to the US Army now, it was more of a terror campaign in order to "completely destroy the Indian culture" What a joke. It was a military campaign against raiders operating in Kansas... Is extreme leftist ideology accepted on Misplaced Pages? HanzoHattori don't know a clue about the event, presented no factual evidences, consider primary sources as "outdated" (something to kill an historian from heartbreak)... Who's this clown? Where are the footnotes? Custerwest 15:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

ANI post about edit war & incivility problems

See WP:ANI#Problems between HanzoHattori and Custerwest. --Yksin 00:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Note

After the edit war, and due to extensive pov and or concerns I reverted the page to this revision. This is the version using the Army's sources. --MichaelLinnear 01:45, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Is anybody here ready for primary sources ?

Every primary source, or even quotes by historians such as Jerome Greene (National Park Service, 2004) have been deleted. Custer's Washita campaign against the Cheyennes has been put in the Comanche campaign. The casualties are false. The causes of the battle are false. Every footnote and primary sources has been deleted. It's a complete disaster.

'generally accepted things (which seems to be the case)'? Who knows here the encounter ? Who has read Jerome Greene's book? Who has read primary sources ? You have deleted original sources and replace them by a flawed article by US center command which isn't made of historians and isn't a relevant source...

And yes, he cites the sources of at least 70-80 years ago to write the white men were "murdered" in "massacres", while the Indian men were "killed" after being "ordered to be killed". Capturing white women and children, and killing some of them, was bad, but capturing Indian women and children,and killing some of them, was alright. Outrageous Sand Creek massacre (Black Kettle and his people were survivors, and it was unprovoked and truly horrific - dead unborn children taken as tropheas by the militiamen, for example) is not even mentioned. This kind of politically correct garbage shouldn't be allowed in a serious encyclopedia (unless Misplaced Pages isn't seen as a serious one). Causes of Washita come from the 1867 peace treaty and the Indian massacres of settlers that followed it. It's serious history. Facts, with precision, date, facts, quotes. HISTORY.

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(éd.), The Custer reader, Lincoln, University of Nebraska Press, 1992 ______, Phil Sheridan and His Army, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 1985 JACQUIN, Phillipe, Histoire des Indiens d’Amérique du Nord, Paris, Payot, 1976 ______, La terre des Peaux-Rouges, Paris, Gallimard, 2000 JENSEN, Richard E., ELI, Paul et CARTER, John E., Eyewitness at Wounded Knee, Lincoln, University of Nebraska Press, 1991 JONES, Douglas C., The Treaty of Medicine Lodge, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 1966 KATZ, Mark D., Custer in Photographs, A photographic biography of the most intriguing Boy General, Garry Owen, Custer Battlefield Museum Publishing, 2000 KRAFT, Louis, Custer and the Cheyennes: George Armstrong Custer’s Winter Campaign on the Southern Plains, El Segundo, Upton & Sons, 1995 KUHLMAN, Charles, Did Custer Disobey Orders at the Battle of Little Bighorn?,Harrisburg, Stackpole Books, 1957 LANEYRIE-DAGEN, Nadeije, Les grandes batailles, Paris, Larousse, 1997 LANGELIER, John P., Custer: The Man, The Myth, The Movies, New York, Stackpole Books, 2000 LALIRE, Gregory, Lakotas : Feared Fighters of the Plains, dans le Wild West, avril 2001 LECKIE, Shirley A., Elizabeth Bacon Custer and the Making of a Myth, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 1993 LEHUNSEC, Mathieu, Moeurs et coutumes des Indiens d’Amérique, document non publié transmis grâce à l’amabilité de son auteur LITTLE BIGHORN BATTLEFIELD NATIONAL MONUMENT, Reno-Benteen entrenchment Trail, 2002 MALCOLMSON, Scott L., One Droop of Blood, the American Misadventure of Race, New York, Farrar Straus Giroux, 2000 MANGUM, Neil C., The Civil War Custer, dans le True West Magazine, mai/juin 2001 McPHERSON, James M., La guerre de Sécession, Paris, Robert Laffont, 1991 MERINGTON, Marguerite (éd.), The Custer Story, The Life and Intimate Letters of General Custer and His Wife Elizabeth, New York, The Devin-Adair Company, 1950 MICHNO, Gregory F., The Real Villains of Sand Creek, dans le Wild West Magazine, 2004 ______, Lakota Noon : The Indian Narrative of Custer’s defeat, Missoula, Mountain Press Company, 1997 MILES, Général Nelson A., Personnal Recollection and Observation of General Nelson A. Miles, Lincoln, University of Nebraska Press, rééd. 1992 MILLER, David H., Custer’s Fall: The Indian Side of the Story, New York, Duel/Sloan/Pierces, 1957 MONAGHAN, Jay, Custer : The life of General George A. Custer, Lincoln, University of Nebraska Press, 1971 NICHOLS, Ronald H., In Custer’s Shadow: The life of Major Marcus Reno, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 1999 NIGHTENGALE, Robert, Little Big Horn, Edina, FarWest Publishing, 1996 PANZERI, Peter, Little Big Horn, 1876, Wellingborough, Osprey Publishing, 1995 PATRIC, William C., Custer’s Black Hills Expedition, dans le American History Magazine, juin 2003 PEARSON, Jeffrey W., Crazy Horse, dans le True West Magazine, mai/juin 2001 PETERSON, Nancy, Interpreter Phillip Wells : Wounded at Wounded Knee, dans le Wild West, août 2004 PURNELLE, Véronique et CORNELIS, Michel, Prélude à la Little Bighorn, dans “AMERICANA”, revue interne du Groupe d’Etude et de Recherche sur l’Histoire de l’Amérique du Nord (GERHAN), été 1996 REECE, Robert, List of the warriors at the Little Bighorn, Friends of the Little Bighorn Association, 2004 ROBINSON III, Charles, The Death of Tom Custer, dans le Wild West, juin 1996 ROLLAND, Marc, George A. Custer et la Little Bighorn : Avatars d’un héritage mythique, dans le “ Cahier du G.R.E.A.M”, Université du Maine, automne 2001 ROTH, David E., The Civil War 1861-1865, New York, Smithmark, 1998 SAND CREEK MASSACRE HISTORICAL SITE, Conduct Oral History Research for Sand Creek Massacre Historical Site, 1999 ______, Historical Research of the location of the Sand Creek Massacre, 1999 SANDOZ, Mari, Cheyenne Autumn, New York, McGraws Hill, 1953 ______, The Battle of the Little Bighorn, New York, J.B. Lippincott Company, 1966 SCOTT, Douglas D. et WILLEY P. et CONNOR, Melissa A., They Died with Custer, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, rééd. 2001 SCOTT, Douglas D., et FOX, Richard A., et CONNOR, Melissa A. et HARMON, Dick, Archeological Insights into the Custer Battle: An assessment of the 1984 Field Season, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 1989 SHOEMAKER, Arthur, Osage scouts helped George Armstrong Custer track down Cheyennes raiders at the Washita, dans le Wild West, juin 1992 SKLENAR, Larry, To Hell With Honor: Custer and the Little Bighorn, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 2003 SMITH, Sherry L., Sagebrush Soldier, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 2002 STACKPOLE, Edward J., They met at Gettysburg, Mechanicsburg, Stackpole Books, rééd. 1986 STEWART, Edgard I, Custer’s luck, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 1955 STOCKWEL, Henrietta, The Arrows that Wounded the West, dans le Wild West, décembre 1998 SVALDI, David, Sand Creek and the Rethoric of Exermination, A Case Study of Indian-White Relations, Lanham, University of America, 1989 UNGER, Arthur, The ABCs of Custer's Last Stand, El Segundo, Upton and Sons, 2004 URWIN, Gregory J., Custer Victorious, The Civil War Battles of General George Armstrong Custer, Lincoln, University of Nebraska Press, rééd. 1990 URWIN, Gregory J. et FANAGAN, Roberta (éd.), Custer and His Times, Book Three, University of Central Arkansas Press, 1987 UTLEY, Robert. M, Custer, Cavalier in buckskin, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, rééd.2001 ______, (éd.), Life in Custer’s cavalry: Diaries and Letter of Albert and Jennie Barnitz 1867-1868, New Haven, Yale University Press, 1977 ______, The Lance and the Shield: the Life and Times of Sitting Bull, New York, Henry Holt & Co, 1993 VAN DE WATER, Frederick, Glory Hunter: The life of General Custer, Indianapolis, Bob-Merrills, 1934 VEGGEBERG, Vernon T., Laws of War on the American Frontier: General orders 100 and the Cheyenne-White Conflict, Master Thesis, Colorado State University, 1999 VESTAL, Stanley, New Sources of Indian History, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 1934 WARDE, Mary Jane, Final Report: Conduct of Oral History Research for Washita Historical Site, Oklahoma Historical Society/Washita Battlefield National Historic Site, 1999 WASHITA BATTLEFIELD NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE, Act of 1996, 104th CONGRESS, 2d Session, H.R., 3099, March 14 1996 ______, Voices : the journey to Washita, document interne transmis grâce à l’amabilité de la cheffe historienne Mary C. Davis, 2005 WELLMAN, Paul I., The Indian Wars of the West, New York, Garden City, 1954 WELCH, James, C’est un beau jour pour mourir, Paris, Albin Michel 1999 WERT, Jeffry, Custer: The controversial life of George Armstrong Custer, New York, Touchstone Books, 1996 ______, From Winchester to Cedar Creek, the Shenandoah Campaign of 1864, Carlisle, South Mountain Press, 1987 WITTAKER, Frederick, The Complete Life of George Armstrong Custer, New York, Seldon and Co, rééd. 1962 WITTENBERG, Eric J. (éd.), One of Custer’s Wolverines : The Civil War Letters of Bvt. Brig. General James H. Kidd, 6th Michigan cavalry, Alexandria, Time-Life Books, 1983 WITTENBERG, Eric J. et HUSBY, Karla J. (éd.), Under Custer’s Command : The Civil War Diary of Private James H. Avery, 5th Michigan cavalry, Dulles, Brassey’s, 2000 Custerwest 15:12, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Causes of the battle (with sources): white captives

Sources : Black Kettle’s Last Raid, by Hill P. Wilson, Transactions of Kansas State Historical Society, VIII, pages 110-117

Stan Hoig, The Battle of the Washita, University of Nebraska Press, 1970, page 212

Senate, Letter to the Secretary of the Interior, Communicating in Compliance with the Resolutions of the Senate of the 14th ultimo, Information in Relation to the Late Battle of the Washita, 40th Congress, 3d Session, 1869. Sen Ex. Doc. 13. page 18

articles from the Kansas Daily Tribune and the Hays City Advance (August 1868):

“A band of Cheyennes under command of Black Kettle, a noted chief, was in town (HaysCity) on Thursday. They had a white child with them (…) Some think that (the child) was stolen by Kiowas or Comanches in Kansas or Texas and sold to the Cheyennes.”

In his report after the battle of the Washita, November 27, 1868, Custer stated to have freed “We also secured two white children, held captives by the Indians.”

As Stan Hoig said, we have evidences that these boys were treated at Fort Hays. Stan Hoig says in his “Battle of the Washita) (page 183): “Evidently, there were the two boys Custer had reported he had rescued from the Indians."

Colonel Miles, commander of Fort Hays, issued a report on April 30, 1869:

“I have the honor to report that I have had taken from the Indian prisoners at this Post and placed in the Post Hospital one white child apparently about two years of age. Said child is, in my opinion, the son of white parents. (…) I judge he must have been one of their captives or a child of some settler. His health is much impaired, owing to this improper treatment. (…) While he remained with the Indians he was placed in the most exposed part of their quarters and his food and clothing taken from him and thrown away.” Custerwest 15:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Causes of the battle (with sources) : Indian massacres of settlers

Source: “Report of an interview between E. W. Wynkoop, US Indian Agent, and Little Rock, a Cheyenne Chief Held at Fort Larned, Kansas, August 19, 1868, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Cheyenne and Arapho Indians. Available in Stan Hoig, The Battle of the Washita, University of Nebraska Press, 1970, pages 49-51; George A. Custer, My Life on The Plains, University of Oklahoma Press, pages 153-156; Jerome Greene, Washita, University of Oklahoma Press, 2004, pages 52-53

Fort Larned, August 19, 1868 Interview of Little Rock, second-in-command of Black Kettle’s village By Indian Agent Edward Wynkoop Witnesses: Lieutenant Samuel Robbins, civilian John Smith, scout James Morrisson.

Indian Agent Edward Wynkoop: “Six nights ago, I spoke to you in regard to depredations committed on the Saline. I told you to go and find out by whom theses depredations were committed and to being me straight news. What news do you bring?”

Little Rock, second-in-command of Black Kettle’s village: “I took your advice and went there. I am now here to tell you all I know. This war party of Cheyennes which left the camp of these tribes above the forks of Walnut Creek about the 2d or 3d of August, went out against the Pawnees (…) The Cheyennes numbered about 200; nearly all the young men in the village went (…) A Cheyenne named Oh-e-ah-mo-he-a (…) proceeded to the first hourse; they afterwards returned to the camp with a woman captive. (…) The two Indians had outraged the woman before they brought her to the camp. (…) Big Head’s son knocked (an isolated white man) down with a club. (…) Soon after they killed a white man, and close by, a woman (…) They then went to another house in the same settlement, and there killed two men and took two little girls prisoners. (…) After they had proceeded some distance up thr Saline, the party divided, the majority going north toward thr settlements on the Solomon (…) Another small party returned to Black Kettle’s village, from which party I got this information.”

Indian Agent Edward Wynkoop: “Your told me your nations want peace; will you, in accordance with your treaty stipulations, deliver up the men whom you have named as being the leaders of the party who committed the outrages named?”

Little Rock, second-in-command of Black Kettle’s village: “(…) when I return to (Black Kettle’s) camp and assemble the chiefs and headmen, I think those two men will be delivered up to you.”

Indian Agent Edward Wynkoop: “I consider the whole party guilty; but it being impossible to punish all of them, I hold the principle men, whom you mentioned, responsible for all. (…)”

Little Rock, second-in-command of Black Kettle’s village: “After your explanations, I think your demand for the men is right. I am willing to deliver them up, and will go back to the tribe and use my best endeavours to have them surrendered.”

(Senate, Letter to the Secretary of the Interior, Communicating in Compliance with the Resolutions of the Senate of the 14th ultimo, Information in Relation to the Late Battle of the Washita, 40th Congress, 3d Session, 1869. Sen Ex. Doc. 13. Pages 19-21)

No warrior was ever delivered up. Little Rock was eventually killed during Custer's Battle of the Washita, while fighting with the warriors hidden in Black Kettle's village. Custerwest 15:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Indian Casualties (with sources)

Indian prisoners told Interpreter Richard Curtis that 11 wachiefs and headmen had been killed, Black Kettle and Little Rock not counted. It means that 13 headmen and warchiefs were killed.

Names of the warchiefs and headmen killed: Stan Hoig, The Battle of the Washita, University of Nebraska Press, 1970, pages 140, page 242 (note for page 140)

Buffalo Tongue Tall White Man Tall Owl Poor Black Elk Big Horse White Beaver Bear Tail Running Water Wolf Ear The Man That Hears the Wolf Medicine Walker Black Kettle Little Rock

Civilian casualties are estimated around 20 (15 to George Bent, 17 to George Bird Grinnell). Custer estimated that 102 warriors had been killed. Later, while coming back on the battlefield, he estimated the casualties as "much higher". 7th cavalry officers thought that the casualties could be of 150 warriors killed. Lieutenant Cooke and Custer both marked places where 17 and 38 warriors had been killed. First report to Fort Cobb showed that at least 80 warriors had been killed. A report coming from Fort Cobb, written with statements by fleeing Indians, said that "all the men had been killed." Accounts of the battle tell us that a great killing of warriors occured. Red Bird, a Cheyenne squaw, saw warriors laying with their guns in their hands". Scout Ben Clark remembered that the Indian forces in the village numbered around 150 warriors.

It's obvious that more than 100, almost all the warriors, were killed. Probably 120 to 130 warriors were killed. There is nothing serious in counting 20 or 40 warriors killed. 150 warriors attacked at dawn cannot have escaped. The accounts of the battle showed that they fought or were shot down. Let's be serious. Cheyenne casualties, which were rewritten to make Black Kettle look like an old peaceful fellow, were high. Custerwest 15:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

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