Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Elonka 2: Difference between revisions

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Elonka

Voice your opinion (talk page) (106/40/3); Scheduled to end 15:32, August 3 2007 (UTC)

This is not a vote. If someone brought this page to your attention, or you brought this page to others' attention, please make a note of this fact here. While widespread participation is encouraged, the primary purpose of this page is to gauge consensus of all Misplaced Pages; therefore, it's important to know whether someone is actively soliciting others from a non-neutral location to discuss. Such contributors are not prohibited from commenting, but it's important for the closing administrator or bureaucrat to know how representative the participants are of Wikipedians generally. See Misplaced Pages:Canvassing.

Elonka (talk · contribs) - I think Elonka will be familiar to many of you. She was been a Wikipedian since September 2005 and has accumulated more than 30,000 edits to the project (including 20,000 in the article namespace). Elonka has shown a long running dedication to the project and a willingness to help out with a number of complex WP:BLP articles showing remarkable calmness in dealing with extremely difficult users. I have found her input and assistance with our article on Matt Sanchez (which some of you will know is a long running headache to keep the article neutral and discussion civil) over many months especially invaluable.

Elonka is a formidable writer of content – she has written or significantly expanded over 200 articles, and her work on Knights Templar brought that article to featured status and Dirty Dancing to GA status. On top of this she has gained experience of the various processes admins deal with on a day-to-day basis. She has contributed regularly to XfD discussions where the points she raises are sensible and help build discussion. Her deleted contributions show that she is familiar with the speedy deletion criteria and she warns vandals appropriately.

Elonka was previously nominated for adminship in October 2006 and you may wish to look at that unsuccessful request. It is my opinion that she has worked hard to address the criticisms raised in that RfA, but I will leave her to persuade you of that. What I will say is that it seems to me not unexpected that editors new to Misplaced Pages will makes mistakes and may misunderstand some of our policies and processes – that should be no permanent bar to earning our trust. I believe that Elonka is one of our strongest and most resilient contributors and that the project is missing out by not having her on our admin team. WjBscribe 00:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Conomination from Durova

When Elonka told me she was considering a second bid for administratorship I wavered between neutrality and conomination, which is an unusual fence to straddle. Her overall contributions dwarf those of the typical RFA candidate: multiple WikiProjects, GA and FA work, and over 30,000 total edits. There can be no doubt that she's a seasoned Wikipedian. What particularly caught my attention is her interest in helping the important and chronically understaffed WP:SSP noticeboard. Her skills as a professional cryptologist make a perfect fit for that work. And as anyone who's been asked to double check a sockpuppet investigation knows, it's far more efficient when the main investigator has the tools.

I am aware of doubts in other respects and I looked into those. Some of them such as the WP:COI matter were genuine issues when she was a new editor, but she's taken time to put that behind her (and I welcome editors who take a principled stand on that guideline to join me at WP:COIN). Among the more recent questions I examined was the naming conventions arbitration case, where not one arbitrator proposed a finding or remedy against her. Other situations followed a similar pattern: either legitimate but very out-of-date problems or instances where she acted within the realms of policy and common sense. Any editor as prolific as this is unlikely to please everyone all of the time.

So I've asked Elonka to be open to recall, as I am. She knows that if I ever see her misuse the tools I'll talk to her and if that fails I'll open or endorse an RFC on her myself. She, of course, is welcome to do the same with me. I hope this satisfies reasonable concerns. She has exceptional dedication and talent and I look forward to seeing this site get the maximum benefit from her skills. Durova 15:44, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:

I am honored to accept the co-nominations from two such well-respected Wikipedians. Thank you, and I look forward to being able to further help this amazing project that is Misplaced Pages. --El on ka 15:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages as an administrator. You may wish to answer the following optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What admin work do you intend to take part in?

A: Several things. For example, helping out at CAT:SPEEDY. I've already done quite a bit of WP:CSD tagging, just as a regular editor. I also frequently participate in AfD discussions, and would like to expand this to helping out at WP:DRV, but am prevented by not being able to see deleted edits. That's the main tool I'd like. I'd also like to help out more with Requested Moves, and making edits on protected pages. Someday I would also like to have CheckUser access, as that's a task that I handle in my dayjob, and I think I could be very helpful on Misplaced Pages. I've also been watching some of the reports at WP:SSP, and would like to help out there in the future.

2. What are your best contributions to Misplaced Pages, and why?

A: I've done substantial work on hundreds of articles in a variety of subject areas. The article I'm currently most proud of is the one on the Knights Templar, both because I helped shepherd it to Featured status, and also because we're going to get it on the Misplaced Pages mainpage on October 13, 2007, which will be the 700-year anniversary of the famous arrests by King Philip IV on October 13, 1307. The article I'm next most proud of right now is on the 1987 film Dirty Dancing, which I've gotten to Good Article status, and I hope to get to FA someday. For a list of the others, check my userpage, where I've tried to maintain a list of all the articles where I've made substantial contributions.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: I paid close attention to comments at my last RfA, and have done my best to improve my style both of editing, and dealing with conflicts. When a dispute comes up about an article edit, I move discussion to the talkpage, and do my best to build consensus on which way to move forward. In regards conflicts prior to that RfA, specifically about my block from January 2006, all I can say is that I was a very new editor at the time, and that though I still feel that a perm block was an over-reaction at the time, I also did not handle the situation as well as I could have. I had a fundamental misunderstanding of Misplaced Pages dispute resolution procedures, as well as the entire RfC process. Because of my misunderstanding, several procedural blunders on my part had the inadvertent effect of making the situation worse. If the same thing were to happen again, I would approach a User Conduct RfC completely differently. I would also like to say that I have used the knowledge that I have gained about the RfC process, to help expand the instructions on the RfC page itself: Perhaps my own hard-earned experience can help prevent other editors from making similar mistakes.

4. What is your opinion of Misplaced Pages's WP:COI policy in light of concerns about this at your last RfA?

A: I am well aware of Misplaced Pages's COI policy, and I strongly support it. I have seen the damage that can be caused when those with a conflict of interest get involved in controversial situations. If I am working on any edit where I have any concerns about COI, I either show it to another respected editor and ask them if they think the edit is worth making, or I ask another editor to review any changes that I've made. And in regards to articles about me or my immediate family, I just don't edit them, period. My last edit to any of them was a year ago, months even before my last RfA.

5. How do you feel about Category:Wikipedian administrators open to recall?

A: I completely support it, and will definitely add my own name to the category. If anyone feels I'm getting out of line (which I strongly doubt is going to happen), just come to me and tell me. I have been listening carefully to the desires of the Misplaced Pages community, and intend to continue this practice in the future.

6. In what situations do you think admins should avoid using their tools?

A: One of my core principles is that with increased power, comes increased responsibility. Admins should never use their tools to give themselves an advantage in a personal situation, or even to take action against a user with whom they have been involved in a prior personal dispute. In such a case, it is always better that the admin get a third opinion. If you feel very strongly that a user needs to be blocked, get another admin's opinion. If you've got a strong case, they'll agree. If they don't agree, then you probably shouldn't be blocking that user in the first place.

A question from bainer (talk)

7. Under what circumstances should one ignore a rule?

A: Where the rules are getting in the way of "doing the right thing." However, I should add that if I do take an action that appears to be in opposition to some rules somewhere, then it's important that there's oversight of my actions. So "the right thing" includes both whatever admin action I took, and also requesting that other admins review that action. For example, if I do something that seems to be a serious violation of any rule, I should also followup with a summary of the situation at the Administrators' Noticeboard. Or in other words, IAR is something that might be invokable in an emergency of some sort, but that doesn't free the admin of the responsibility for their actions. Everyone's activities, including mine, should be subject to later review.

Question from Deiz

8. Several sections on the biographical article Elonka Dunin, notably the biography section, are apparently unsourced, or at least not supported by inline citations. How should this be dealt with?

A: Well, since I'm not the one who should be editing the bio in the first place, I'm not really the right one to be asking, per WP:AUTO. However, as the subject of the bio, I can affirm that all of the info there is accurate, and does have sources, either in major press or my own autobiography. If someone would like to take on the job of updating the bio, I'd be happy to work with them to point out the appropriate sources for any problematic section.

Question from Nihiltres

9. What are your feelings about the article about you? Please explain your position on the subject. This was a major issue in your last RfA. (Note: this question is highly subjective, you are especially free to decline.)

A: Erm, my understanding is that I already answered this question via my replies to questions #8 and #4. If you need further clarification, please let me know? --El on ka 22:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

~~Questions~~ from SMcCandlish (talk)

Withdrawn due to lack of response, attack-dog candidate supporter behavior, and having found my answers elsewhere. — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 00:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

~~10.~~ In your own words, what does and does not constitute disruptive editing (including wikilawyering, which is defined as a form of DE, and disruption to make a point) – where do you draw the line? — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 23:39, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Note: I am acknowledging that this question was asked, and then withdrawn. If you'd like to post an alternate version of the query, please let me know. --El on ka 22:09, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

~~11.~~ Selecting one item listed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion that has a strong majority !vote count to delete, but on faulty justifications (misunderstanding of policy, "I don't like it", etc.), explain, citing relevant policies, guidelines, procedures and/or precedent, why the article should be kept (alternatively, invert delete and keep; or select a CfD, TfD, or MfD instead if nothing in AfD seems to fit this pattern, though that is highly unlikely; or select an AfD that has already closed as "delete" that you think should not have been, and has not been sent to WP:DRV yet. Please keep your personal opinion of the subjective value of the item or its topic out of the equation, as this is a demonstration of administrative not editorial judgement, of something you would close as keep (or no consensus at worst) on the basis of policy and the basis that a "consensus" of inapplicable nonsense is not a consensus.

I don't normally butt into these, but Q11 is one of the most loaded questions I've seen. This could take hours to do! You are in effect asking the candidate to go and judge the consensus on just about every AfD in an effort to answer your question, and if they can't find a suitable one, hell, they should move on to MfDs. With the greatest respect to SMcCandlish, Elonka, if you're listening, I wouldn't bother. Ryan Postlethwaite 09:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I thought the same thing, and asked SMcCandlish if they wouldn't mind simplifying it, or suggesting an appropriate discussion to evaluate, request politely declined. Deiz talk 09:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

That sounds rather a bit overprotective. I used the same questions at load of RfAs today, and plenty of hopefuls rapidly asnwered them. I was hardly the originator of this line of questioning (and the version I got didn't even have any options available). I think you are reading it too way too literally. It doesn't mean literally read every single AfD there is, it means look around for a landslide of obvious "me too", "I don't like it", "I don't know it", etc. type reasoning, with a handful of well reasoned opposing !votes that are based in real policy and explain what the faults are on the wrong-headed majority side. This is really a pretty darned basic excercise, and is directly reflective of what real admins have to do. And really only takes a few minutes to find one – just in the rash of new Harry Potter cruft AfDs there's a lot of emotive loveit/hateit nonsense "arguments" (noise) being presented, on both sides. And she can can invert it and look for a landslide of boneheaded "keeps", doubling the odds of finding one, or go to TfD (hint, hint - many of the arguments in there are frequently way off-kilter; easy pickings). I had one candidate report back with a landslide but wrongheaded merge, which was just as interesting. So, like, don't get all perturbed please. :-) — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 12:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Any further discussion of this should please go to User talk:SMcCandlish#RfA questions; protracted commentor-to-commentor debates on RfA pages aren't a Good Thing. — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 00:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Note: I am acknowledging that this question was asked, and then withdrawn. If you'd like to post an alternate version of the query, please let me know. --El on ka 22:09, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Questions from Matt57 (talk): 12. We've had some discussions on this before but people should see this too. You've supported replacing the Kaaba image or putting a show/hide option because its offensive to some editors (who are obviously not typical Misplaced Pages readers). When you're an admin, are you going to repeat the kinds of judgements you've made on the Kaaba image or will you respect WP:CENSOR? --Matt57 02:56, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

A: I respect all Misplaced Pages policies, including WP:CENSOR, WP:CONSENSUS, and the WP:UNDUE portion of WP:NPOV. In this particular issue, as regards the issues of images of Muhammad, I feel that the issue fell into a grey area in between conflicting policies. As such, since there were good faith objections, I felt that it was worthwhile seeking if there was a valid compromise position. But at this point, consensus seems to be clear that inclusion of the images is appropriate, and I am willing to support that consensus.

So you changed your own opinion of Replacing the image to keeping the image because consensus said so? Why did you decide on a Replace in the first place and why did you change your mind based on what other people are saying? i.e., where's your own judgement? You changed your stance on an issue depending on what people wanted. Thats not a good sign of strong independent judgement. --Matt57 00:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, people don't need to have strong independent judgement to become administrators. A.Z. 01:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Seriously?! —Wknight94 (talk) 01:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

A.Z., according to you, everyone should be an administrator. I guess that includes Willy on Wheels. --Matt57 01:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

This issue has already been addressed on my talk page. A.Z. 01:39, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Elonka and I had considerable discussions on this point so perhaps I can clarify (and please correct me if I misspeak, Elonka). Occasionally a situation arises where two different policy concerns intersect and a variety of opinions are valid, depending on how the editors weigh the relative claims of each interpretation. Mutual respect and consensus play an important role in those outcomes. Durova 01:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

There was no such thing as "two different policy concerns" in this case. All policies pointed toward keeping the image. --Matt57 01:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, at the Muhammad images RFC where I participated before Elonka got involved in the matter, I went on record with an opinion the anti-iconic tradition in Islam did hold water with WP:NPOV#Undue weight. A wide range of images exist beyond portraiture: location photos, maps, calligraphy, etc. That doesn't mean censoring out portraiture, just giving it a proportionate place in the larger context with a focus on the overall informative value of the article, with excess images of all sorts to Commons. If you'd like to discuss this further, though, suggest taking to talk. Durova 03:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Question from Twenty Years

13. In the past, you have had some issues with Assuming good faith, making personal attacks, and making point/s. What have you done to adress these issues? 13:44, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

A: Um, no, I don't believe that I've had any trouble with any of those. In fact, it actually makes me smile to see anyone accusing me of making personal attacks, because if anything I think that I am over civil, not the other way around. ;) In fact, at least one of my opposers commented that I'm "too soft," heh. Anyway, if you do have diffs of anything that you have concerns about, please feel free to bring them forward. --El on ka 17:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Question from Jehochman

14. Have you apologized to the people who you may have offended in the past? Have you made peace with the people with whom you've had conflicts. Why, or why not?

A: Wherever possible, I absolutely have gone back to those with whom I have been involved in disputes in the past, and tried to patch things up. My offered olive branch is not always accepted, but I do make the effort, and have frequently been successful. I could offer several examples of cases where my opposers in one dispute (Piotrus and PKtm come immediately to mind) became friends later on. --El on ka 17:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

General comments

See Elonka's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.

RfAs for this user:

Links for Elonka: Elonka (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)

Please keep criticism constructive and polite. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Elonka before commenting.

Discussion

Consensus not numbers: I'm convinced that Elonka can be trusted with the tools, and I therefore propose that we promote her at the end of this discussion. --Tony Sidaway 01:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
- Er, that disregards the actual meaning of the word "consensus". If a lot of people disagree with something, then, by definition, there isn't a consensus. I personally agree that she can be trusted with the tools, and it looks as if she will be promoted. But if she falls below 70% support, then she should not be promoted - admin tools should be given out at the decision of the community, not the bureaucrats. Walton 16:25, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
  - To whom are you addressing your remarks? If you're addressing me, note that I am only proposing that we promote her, as are many of the other people in this debate. That hardly amounts to "disregarding consensus". We are the community (and that includes me and the bureaucrats).
  - On a minor niggle of mine, please avoid referring to numeric constraints to which the bureaucrats need not, and in practice do not, feel bound. --Tony Sidaway 16:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
    - I'm sorry, I misunderstood your original comment - I didn't realise your comments were a substitute for a vote; rather, I assumed you were advocating that she be promoted regardless of the outcome of the RfA. Please ignore my statement above. As for the numeric constraints, the bureaucrats should be bound by those, but we've had this discussion before. Walton 11:03, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Question 12 is quite loaded (Are you still beating your wife?), and I urge Elonka to ignore it. Sean William @ 09:21, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm in sympathy with this suggestion, but I don't see how the answer could reflect poorly on Elonka. Although I do not support her view on this matter, it does not reflect on her judgement on administrative matters. As one of the principal architects of the element of What Misplaced Pages is not that has become known as "Misplaced Pages is not censored" or WP:CENSOR, I reject the notion that that policy makes discussion points of the quality of this, or this, in any way unacceptable. Elonka is clearly acting in the highest traditions of Misplaced Pages, seeking a compromise that will allow all editors to be comfortable with the presence of an image that is very problematic for a significant proportion of the readership of that particular article. --Tony Sidaway 12:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree that Question 12 is quite loaded and unfair. However, as an admin, Elonka will end up thrusting herself into situations that are loaded and unfair and I don't see how avoiding the situation created by Matt57 as a way to deal with it. Subtly skillful handling of a situation does not always require directly answer the loaded and unfair question posed but may include addressing the underlying issue, including the hurt felt by the person posing the question. -- Jreferee 16:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I too would like to see that a candidate is willing to answer a question like that here. I would not judge on whether I agreed with the answer, but on whether the answer was reasonable and supported. DGG (talk) 02:21, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I have to pile on here. Yes, Q11 was an odd homework-type exercise but what happened to Q10 and Q12? Loaded or not, there's no reason not to give some sort of response. She had time to correct one of her RFA supporters today (meaning she's obviously watching this) but doesn't have time to address anything here? I'm having flashbacks to the selective answering days of the Naming Conventions RFAR. Maybe my first inclination to go in the Oppose pile was correct after all. —Wknight94 (talk) 03:20, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Despite leaning towards opposition, I wouldn't expect Elonka to answer question #12. It's an openly antagonistic question from someone whose mind is obviously quite made up. In my view it's best for candidates to ignore questions that openly assume bad faith; to acknowledge them diminishes the collegiality of the process. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:58, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I have no knowledge of what will be answered or when, but lets remember that these are all optional questions.... WjBscribe 04:59, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

A loaded question? First she opted to replace the image. Then she told me she's changed her vote to a Keep because that was what consensus was looking like. That means she was unable to give or defend her own judgement. How did she explain her opinion to replace the image? She told me later (something which she had never mentioned in public talks) that the image wasnt relevant. She knew she would be jumped on by everyone if she said this in public. Ofcourse the image was relevant. There are 3 key elements in the image: Muhammad, Kaaba and the Black stone and she was saying the image wasnt relevant for the Kaaba? Its not a loaded question. Yes she's polite and not trying to hurt anyone's feelings but the bottomline is that she supported taking off this highly relevant image from the article by either replacing it, or doing a show/hide option. Policy states clearly that Misplaced Pages is not to be censored. Bieng informative is our mission, not being offensive is not. If consensus was to write "lets all play with goats" in place of the image, is that what we'll end up doing? Was her attempting to keep the image off from the page an act of censorship? Obviously it was. She was willing and is still willing to appease a small minority of editors who found the image offensive, and thats wrong. If some of us hadnt been there, she would have happily taken off the image. Where's the mission to improve the encyclopedia? Basically she needs to stick to her opinion and defend it. If originally she wanted to do a Replace and now she wants to do a Keep because of what consensus says, what does that say about her own independent judgement? Not much. Again I havent interacted with her on other issues, but because of her, this image issue got stretched more than it should have and I didnt see her respecting policies (all the other couple of policies she cited are weak in their application, and she has never used them to defend her decision before in this issue and further they're just copies of arguments from other people who wanted the images out). There's a serious lack of her own indepedent judgement. I dont know if I should use this page to drill her more about her censorship decision but it was clearly really bad judgement on her part. Yes these are tough issues if you want to make sure everyone is pleased but in the end, its Misplaced Pages policies which have to be upheld in high regard. From her answer you can see that she's avoided answering my question i.e., she's not given any assurance that she'll respect CENSOR. I'll say without doubt that she has no respect for CENSOR and judging by her answer, she'll probably never have any. I'm sorry but I cant support anyone being an admin who censors stuff in the name of compromise and consensus. Thats not the right thing to do. --Matt57 00:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Elonka's not going to like this but I find this RfA vaguely reminiscent of Danny's (actually, I'm pretty sure Danny won't like that comparison either). Just like Danny she has been around too long, has made too many mistakes, big and small, has stepped on too many toes to have her RfA fly under the radar. Too many editors have long memories but I think "forgive and forget" is a more constructive approach to moving the project forward. I know these few sentences will get lost in the chaos here but just in case someone bothers to read it: let's remember that we are here to decide whether the net effect of sysoping Elonka would be positive. I think it's also crucial to remember that future editorial disagreements one might have with Elonka will barely be impacted by her sysoping: we all know that the easiest way to look silly in any dispute around here is to say "I'm an admin so that's that". Pascal.Tesson 04:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support

Beat The Nom Support - was thinking of nominating her myself. Walton 15:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Incredibly active, hard working, talented, and one of those editors who bear our project in their hearts with passion. I'm nothing short of awed by her amazing contributions and the high quality of her work. I fully echo the sentiments expressed by WjB above, and it's with pleasure that I support this request. Phaedriel - 15:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support, of course, per my nomination above. Durova 15:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Elonka would make a great administrator. She helps other editors willingly and has made a significant contribution to many articles on Misplaced Pages. She gets things done, but does not act in an authoritative manner. I've found her to be fair, friendly, supportive and definitely someone I could turn to for advice on policy and editing in general.Gungadin 15:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

10-plus year Dragonrealms player support Elonka would be an asset as an admin. ⇒ SWATJester 16:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

~~Strong~~ Support, for extensive experience managing online communities as evidenced by this comment:, and for maintaining composure when I essentially suggested that she might have a COI (when she didn't). Jehochman 16:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Seems like a perfect admin candidate. Pax:Vobiscum 16:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Strong Support Not only is she experienced with many facets of Misplaced Pages policy and operations, but she handles sticky situations on a regular basis without becoming involved in conflict. Her skills and dedication make her a great candidate for the mop. Shell 16:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support I see no problems with this editor using the admin tools. (aeropagitica) 16:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Looking at the previous RFA, I'm reminded that I've had some reservations in the past about her behavior in a conflict with another editor, but this was over a year ago. She's open to recall, and I'm inclined to believe that she'll take feedback from other editors seriously if there is a perceived problem. Friday (talk) 16:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Certainly —AldeBaer 16:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - There were some problems of self promotion raised during the last RFA, but as long as that's far behind and there are no conflict of interest issues raised in the future I'm going to support. Wikidudeman 16:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyone questioning her commitment to and well meaning toward the project after reviewing her prodigious contributions, especially over the last year, need only be reminded that she has allowed herself to be subject to recall. Besides, the mop is "No big deal". And concerning the COI incidents, I think Oscar Wilde said it best: "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." Baccyak4H (Yak!) 16:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. I strongly endorse this nomination. Elonka is ready for adminship. In a recent encounter with her, I found her helpful, and I agreed with her assessment of the situation. Plus she has a cool name... my's real name's boring. --Deskana (talk) 17:11, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Like what she plans to do with the tools and the sum of her contributions. I've reviewed the reasons editors have not supported her becoming an admin in the past and they seem like they're over and done with. Darkspots 17:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support There is no doubt in my mind that the candidate is a respected and valued contributer but I have to admit this was not an easy decision for me. On the one hand, I personally consider WJBScribe to be one of our finest adminstrators and a person whose judgement I trust but, on the other hand, the fact remains that there were some serious issues raised in the previous RFA. I obviously agree that this should not be held against the candidate for all eternity but I also feel that it warrants careful review and consideration. Having said that, I also believe that one should not forget that ~9 months is long time (well, at least in terms of wikitime). I did skim over the last few thousand of the candidate's contributions (ignoring this month's), and while there's a chance that I might have missed something, I did not find reason for concern. I did pay particular attention to the points made by the opposing voters in the last RFA and didn't find anything of note (which is obviously a good thing). Hence, I see no reason not to support the candidate. S 17:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - I've been very impressed with Elonka, she will make a fine admin. Ryan Postlethwaite 17:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Good active friendly admin, will do a good job. Englishrose 17:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - I read over the previous RfA & yes, all of that is well in the past now. Everything checks out, editor is kind, courteous, helpful and never BITEy. Definitely mop and bucket time - Alison ☺ 17:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Strong support a nomination from WJBscribe and Durova? A fine candidate here. :) Acalamari 17:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Opposed last time, but record of contributions looks very good since the RfA. Was actually contemplating a nomination myself. IronGargoyle 17:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. I believe that Elonka has a good attitude, and she knows policy. She and I have both edited Juice Plus, an article where she helped out by creating a neutral and properly-sourced draft of a contested article that had serious COI issues. Later, she set up a user-conduct RfC for an editor who some people thought was attempting to WP:OWN the article. So far, this is my only exposure to conduct RfCs and I think she handled it well. The article seems to be overcoming its problems, and the cited editor is still participating. EdJohnston 17:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support encore. --Fire Star 火星 18:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - as per Ryan Postlethwaite..--Comet styles 18:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support- per Phaedriel. --Boricuaeddie 19:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - Garion96 (talk) 19:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support -- good editor, good answers to questions, q.v. Bearian 19:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support per Bearian, I am also liking everything that I see. LessHeard vanU 19:33, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support No reason to oppose, + Question 5 response: I don't think you'll have anything to worry about. --BsayUSD π 19:43, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. I've been familiar with this user and her work for quite some time, and while she did have problems early on, most of that was due to her high ambition crashing her into a steep learning curve. I don't think that's the case anymore. Philwelch 19:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Without my customary level of reasoning. It's all been said by the noms and the valued contributions above. For once, I have nothing more to add. Very best wishes. Pedro | Chat 20:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Even more deserving than last time, which I scarcely thought was possible. —Xezbeth 20:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support concerns on the first RfA were completely blown out of proportion. Pascal.Tesson 20:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Strong Support All my interactions with Elonka were excellent and positive. Elonka is always ready to offer help, which is a quality I like to see in admins. I was recently seriously considering nominating her myself (if I weren't too bonked to do so). An asset definitely. —Anas 21:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support These difs indicate (as a small sample) an improved effort from what concerns were raised in the prior RFP: ,,.Best of luck! Hiberniantears 21:04, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support ~ Wikihermit 21:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. A great editor, with plenty of knowledge and experience. Matt/TheFearow (Talk) (Contribs) (Bot) 21:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Supported before, happy to support again. Nothing has happened in the intervening time to change my mind. Agent 86 21:39, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Every editor is going to get into conflicts and misinterpret policies from time to time; no one's perfect. When you have an editor as prolific as Elonka, the raw number of mistakes is inevitably going to rise. That she's been involved in conflict from time to time is also the inevitable result of all the work she's done. The only time she's actually seemed to get into trouble was with the COI incident, but this is all now far in the past, beyond even the timescale of ArbCom blocks. Forgiveness is a necessary part of working with others on Misplaced Pages, and especially for a mostly-innocent mistake such as this, we owe it to her. As for her behavior with regards to this matter since then, I've noticed that she's been incredibly careful. I can't fault her for stopping editing on all potential-COI articles, even if it leaves up her own OR claims. Stepping out really seems like the best option. Also, I'd like to point to this comment. Even though you'd have to bend over backwards to make a case that she had a COI in that issue, she made it clear upfront that the possibility was there. I don't think it can be any clearer that she's learned from her mistakes. --Infophile 22:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Your dedication to the project is phenomenal. J-stan 23:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Mackensen (talk) 23:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. A genuine asset to the project and worthy of promotion. Nick 23:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - dedicated, and I think that, even if she was denounced as "disruptive" by several editors, it does not mean that she has not learned. Will 00:01, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Excellent editor. Handled a troublesome situation on Gnostic Gospels very well. I think this is a no brainer and the votes reflect that. jbolden1517 00:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Valued and experienced editor. I endorse the nominators' thorough scrutiny.--Húsönd 00:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I wish I had my own article :P Giggy _UP 01:46, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Conversely, I'm really glad I don't have my own article! ;-) --Fire Star 火星 18:36, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

SupportShe has avoided editing her own article since at least October of last year, and that would be my only concern. Other than that, she is a great editor. i 02:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Elonka will unquestionably benefit the project if given the extra tools and I have no doubt she will use them wisely. - auburnpilot talk 02:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Elonka is an excellent example of a user who bumped her head into a couple of things in her early days but because she was given a chance and carried on she developed into an extremely valuable and thoughtful editor. I have no hesitation in recommending her for adminship. She has experience across the board and will use the admin buttons with wisdom and restraint. Haukur 02:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. She's put up with a lot, and keeps coming back, improving every time. Side note: when I read the oppose reason that she was too soft, I nearly spit out my drink, that was the last objection I expected. Polite, yes, she's gotten better at that, but Elonka's never been soft. Maggie Thatcher has nothing on this lady. --AnonEMouse 02:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

How-could-I-not-support-this-even-if-I'm-meant-to-be-on-Wikibreak support. ~ Riana ⁂ 02:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

The response to the ~~psalm~~ RfA is hell yes... Daniel 03:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support: I could definitely use some help at WP:SSP. I'm also favorably disposed toward admin candidates who contribute a lot of high-quality content. While some of the concerns raised below are significant, I think that being open to recall will provide a meaningful layer of accountability and assuages any concerns I have there. MastCell 03:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support: Elonka has shown herself to be a prolific wikipedian. I support her for many reasons, and most have been stated above. One that hasn't is her neutrality on the issue of images of Muhammad and her willingness to create concensus with users based on wiki policy.Bless sins 04:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support It is time to give her the mop. A very active editor as well. --S iva1979 06:16, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Nothing in the opposition makes me doubt for a second not supporting you. Dfrg.msc 07:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support For some reason a few weeks back, I was looking at Elonka's prior RfA and remember thinking that it was unfortunate that it wasn't successful, and that's why I support so quickly. A great editor as far as I can see. daveh4h 07:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Have personal experience working with this editor.--Alf 09:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support I'm fairly convinced she has her brain turned on. This isn't true of everyone. Subversified 09:15, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support (ec x2) The naming conventions RFAR was long enough ago for the behavior of the parties to be forgiven. No big deal. Sean William @ 09:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support, you should have passed previous RfA. @pple 10:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - The Cone of Silence cabal says yes. - hahnch e n 10:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support A good editor through have no interaction. Harlowraman 10:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - In my time on Misplaced Pages, I have seen Elonka's name numerous times and have always been impressed with her intellect, cogency of argument, productivity, unpretentiousness and use of elegantly measured language, even under the most trying circumstances. I feel certain that she would be an excellent administrator. —Roman Spinner (talk) 11:08, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - my opinion hasn't changed. Deb 13:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Exceptionally qualified candidate -- this should have happened long ago. Xoloz 14:50, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - Thought she was one. --Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor (ταlκ) 15:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - Trustworthy and unlikely to abuse the tools. The oppose and neutral positions seem to generally agree with this assessment, but with different !votes. -- Jreferee 16:25, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support -Not swayed by the opposes. They might have been relevant for her previous RfA, but I fail to see how her earlier actions are still relevant now. Contributions now seem exemplary, and I see nothing to suggest this user would abuse the tools. And I've gone quite far back checking it out. Raystorm (¿Sí?) 17:04, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support, good editor. Everyking 18:03, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support I hear babies crying ~ Infrangible 18:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Based on my previous experience with the user. -- ReyBrujo 18:46, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support--Duk 19:01, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Excellent user, not convinced by some of the oppose votes that was concerns from an RFA from one year ago that she managed to fix in my opinion. Jaranda 19:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - Elonka is a fine writer, and logical and articulate on the talk page. In my experience she has been open to reason, taking a thoughtful and mature approach to editing that I expect she will continue as an admin. Tom Harrison 20:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Strong Support I had voted neutral on her last RFA. But that she has stuck with Misplaced Pages and made some excellent contributions has swung the vote to her.--Agεθ020 (ΔT • ФC) 21:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - Excellent editor, more then desearves adminship Deliciously Saucy 21:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. From what I've seen of Elonka's editing skills, she is one of the best Wikipedian editors we have here at Misplaced Pages. Not only does she do fabulous work on editing articles, but she keeps a calm attitude when addressing editors who are a little less than polite in expressing their feelings, and she even goes out of her way to assist newbie Wikipedian editors who would be more so lost on Misplaced Pages otherwise. She was also great with me in my first few days and weeks here at Misplaced Pages. But her assistance in making me a better Wikipedian editor is not the main reason that support her as an administrator here. I've watched Elonka edit Misplaced Pages on several occasions and am impressed at the hard work, devotion and seemingly inherent care that she exudes while editing articles here. I must say that out of all the great Wikipedian editors on Misplaced Pages who would be great as administrators, Elonka is definitely in the top ten. Flyer22 21:21, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Maybe a bit too eager to reach compromise in my mind, but overall a grand editor, always remarkably civil.--Aldux 22:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support a great candidate --Stephen 23:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. i was surprised to discover that she wasn't already an admin. i would also reiterate the sentiments expressed by Raystorm. ITAQALLAH 23:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Support wonderful writer, good answers. Highly-qualified for adminship, no doubt at all. Peacent 02:58, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Everyone should be an administrator. A.Z. 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Closing admin, please ignore this invalid vote. --Matt57 05:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Since I instigated a comment (though not this one), I'm going to explain what he means. A.Z. has participated in six RFAs today with the same "everyone should be a sysop" reasoning. In one case, someone commented that no, not everyone (such as Willie on Wheels) should be a sysop.--Chaser - T 05:15, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Elonka is a high-quality editor, and my interactions with her have generally been positive. JavaTenor 04:59, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Just realised that despite having nominated Elonka I haven't supported her yet. I am unmoved by the opposition here - some strong allegation have been made and Danny's comment would in any other setting I think fall foul of our rules against personal attacks. Nevertheless no diffs have been provided to demonstrate recent conduct issues - those that have appeared are a minimum of 9 months old. My confidence in Elonka expressed above is unharmed, but my faith in the community is a little shaken by the apparent unwillingess on the part of some to forgive and move forwards. WjBscribe 05:05, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Very helpful, kind, and reasonable. I watched her try to mediate an intractable dispute recently, and I was impressed by the respect she showed for the arguments, and her calmness and rationality. I think she'll make an excellent admin. SlimVirgin 06:58, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Appears to be suitable for adminship overall.--MONGO 08:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support I was just reading RfA's out of boredom today, and this one caught my eye, so I did some research into her edits over the past several hours. To be honest, as near as I can tell, she's human, has made a few mistakes in the past, but has learned from them. Might she make a few mistakes in the future? Sure, she's not a bot. Nonetheless, I'd feel safe with her in posession of admin tools (and I couldn't even say that about myself right now). spazure (contribs) 10:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Strong Support While I do not agree with her on everything, I would like to think I have gotten to know her over the past few months and I think she will do a fine job with the tools. EnsRedShirt 15:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support I have seen Elonka present Misplaced Pages to people; she is an involved, invested participant in this experiment. Let's let her take her participation to another level! -JustinHall 15:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Why not? Politics rule 19:30, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support: Unlike (I strongly suspect) most of the Oppose voters, I've personal experience of Elonka's measure in an administrative, customer service position. We did not always agree, but she always expressed her position clearly and promptly addressed concerns brought to her attention. Perhaps I'm just peculiar in that her telling me "I disagree with you" doesn't by that reason alone provoke me to to believe that this capable, veteran administrator is somehow unfit to be an admin on Misplaced Pages. RGTraynor 23:11, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Support An established editor and a great Wikipedian. I had a small conflict with her awhile back, but she kept a cool head and I found her to be a pleasant editor. I think that her cool head will help her as an administrator. Pablo Talk | Contributions 00:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Yep. Long history of commitment to Misplaced Pages. Sensible and flexible, coolheaded. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:28, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. Much improved from her last RfA, which I had opposed. --Hemlock Martinis 03:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

That's so hot. Yes, I'm bringing back "That's hot" for my support, because Elonka is a fabulous lady, both in her work here and as a friend to me. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 05:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. I've wrestled with this one for a few days now. The opposing arguments are very compelling, but after delving into the user's past history extensively, I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt. Trusilver 05:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. I've never before participated in an RfA, although I do paroose this page from time to time. I was suprised to learn that this editor was not already an Administrator. After carefully delving through the evidence presented below, she has my vote and confidence. Mrprada911 05:56, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. I was firmly neutral in the last RFA and later enumerated my reasons upon request. This user is a far better candidate now that in the last RFA. The tone of her writing suggests to me that much of this is from calculation about policy parameters, rather than indoctrination into wikiculture, but the two largely express themselves identically in action. I certainly won't say that someone who obviously actively thinks about their editing is not qualified to be a sysop. Rebecca's concerns give me pause, but speedy deletion is currently a sore point due to the ongoing backlash against the widespread aggressive stance on speedies. I personally am awaiting further policy/norm clarification on the scope of the October 2006 "shoot on sight" directive and I have no reason to think that Elonka won't also fit herself under whatever clarification may emerge. - Banyan Tree 07:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Just a minor clarification - the problematic speedy deletions that I'm talking about have generally not been in relation to the BLP "shoot on sight" directive. Her pet targets tend to lean more towards places and organisations, which do not have the same imperative. Rebecca 08:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support - seems to be a good candidate. --Aminz 09:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Kusma (talk) 09:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. I've recently interacted with Elonka in a FAC, where I found her good-natured contributions to be exemplary, and she was going an excellent job in helping less experienced editors through the process. Her article and FA work is also impressive to me. J.Winklethorpe 11:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support good candidate --rogerd 15:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support, no problems. The oppose reasons thus far are either unconvincing to me or happened too long ago. - Zeibura 16:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. I share the views expressed below that she has a past history of clear self-promotion, but it is a past history. We reject people for adminship for a lot of foolish reasons... Even if Elonka were the worse self-promoter on the face of the earth that alone wouldn't be a reason to deny her the admin tools. I would have remained neutral and not participated in this RFA were it not for the fact there is clear evidence of canvassing against her. --Gmaxwell 16:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support I'm coming momentarily out of a long Wikibreak to support this hardworking, able contributor once again. It's also again distressing to see the character assassination, long-held grudges, and clear canvassing, perpetrated by people (can you say cabal?) like Danny, Rebecca, Ned Scott, Wknight94, who haven't liked Elonka's outspokenness and fairmindedness. See my user page for a lengthier discussion of why I no longer contribute here--this RFA, a never-ending diatribe against a solid contributor, is yet another example of how politics and pettiness have taken over Misplaced Pages. -- PKtm 16:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Elonka is an extremely active and talented contributor of the highest caliber. She is helpful and reasonable, and displays a high level of calmness and rationality. I think she will make an excellent admin! – Dreadstar † 17:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose

Strong oppose. Elonka is a highly manipulative editor and is a poor judge of consensus. While most people, including myself long long ago, will actually have a very pleasant interaction with her, if you ever find yourself disagreeing with her, you will see a whole other side to Elonka. In one such dispute I had with her, it was taken all the way to arbitration (Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Naming Conventions). While the case focused mostly at the issue of naming conventions and page moves, the evidence page well documents this other side of Elonka. Elonka engages in disruptive and stalling behavior, makes false allegations of incivility, Elonka is masterful at WikiLawyering, Elonka is a tendentious editor, Elonka has a history of being disruptive. It goes on and on, any of which is a reason to not give Elonka an admin bit. Further from this, I've had other small disputes with Elonka after the arbcom case that show this is clearly not an isolated issue. -- Ned Scott 05:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Ned, I'm a little confused by your comment. You allege that serious conduct issues on the part of Elonka were demonstrated during an ArbCom case. Yet I see that the committee made no finding against Elonka nor sanctioned her in anyway. ArbCom are not prone to overlooking such issues and their findings cover the conduct of all involved - the fact that their decision does not censure Elonka appears to me to mean that they were unpersuaded by the evidence against her. WjBscribe 21:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Regardless if they decided to comment on it or not, the fact is that this behavior happened. Feel free to check out the links provided. -- Ned Scott 21:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I'd also like to add that she has recently been doing things such as edit warring on articles such as Juice Plus. To respond to something User:Durova said in his co-nom, in the arbcase I mentioned, the arbitrator specifically did not comment on anyone's behavior, except for one clear case of sexual harassment from a semi-involved user. Regardless of what the arbitrator choose to comment on, the behavior by Elonka is well documented and fully relevant to this discussion. The fact that the situation even went to arbcom shows just how badly she was a judge of the consensus of that situation. -- Ned Scott 21:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Dear Ned, I can't help but to notice two things at your comments. About that ArbCom case: one, as WjB says, no finding took place, not simply no comment by Arbitrators; and even if any of those alleged conducts that you have presented as facts had indeed taken place, they're at least 8 months old, if not more. Second, I'd like to see some evidence of the recent "edit warring" from Elonka that you assert took place at Juice Plus. I have personally not only not found any, but furthermore, I've encountered different attempts from her to defuse the situation and search for a solution to the dispute, only to see her efforts ignored and dismissed by others not interested in achieving a compromise through dialogue (interesting that she seeks for Mediation and vehemently proposes it as means to solve this dispute, re. the comment below). Sorry, I respectfully but firmly disagree with your assessment. Phaedriel - 23:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Ned, I looked at the arbitration thoroughly, and very few editors signed onto the workshop proposals regarding Elonka. I don't think that was merely a case of the arbitrators sidestepping the issue; it looked more like the argument against her just didn't carry much credence with the community. I phrased the conomination to avoid calling out any particular editor who might disagree with that assessment. Despite what may be a heartfelt belief, these assertions are far from proven. And I'm well aware of the Juice Plus issue; in fact I was watching it closely (mostly lurking) while it was developing. My antenna was raised for a little while, but I really don't think Elonka stepped out of line there. Durova 23:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
It wouldn't be the first time the arbitration committee has let us down. So I guess Elonka didn't blatantly lie about things in the case (and continued to assert this even after being asked multiple times). And I guess Elonka didn't intentionally blocked return moves, or canvass. Or that she doesn't have a history of being disruptive. Everything on that evidence page has links and diffs to back up the facts, and people should definitely check them out and come to their own conclusions. I seriously doubt that any arbitrator would tell you that this is acceptable behavior. A lack of comment is not an endorsement. -- Ned Scott 03:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
As said before, dear Ned, even if we're asked to accept those allegations as proven facts (and just as said above by WjB and Durova, I'm not inclined to do so either), much, much water has flowed under the bridge since then, and Elonka's edits in the meantime can be counted by the thousands. If I'm asked to believe she's "disruptive", a "liar", or "inclined to canvassing", I certainly need more than diffs that range from nine months to a year and a half ago. Best regards, Phaedriel - 04:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. Doesn't seems to a have sufficient understanding of policy including WP:NOT. Most recently the candidate among other things suggested that some specific historical images should be digitally altered, so that we do not offend the feelings and ideas of our ultra conservative religious readers and editors. She doesn't seems to have sufficient respect for the mediation process in general either or the opinion expressed my a huge majority there regarding religious censorship. -- Karl Meier 21:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm a little confused. "She doesn't seems to have sufficient respect for the mediation process in general either"? Hardly, she's entirely right. The results of mediations aren't binding, and Elonka's comment regarding this actually showed a high level of understanding, rather than something to be opposed about. Daniel 03:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's another issue I examined closely before conominating. I may be in a particularly good position to comment because some Muslim editors invited my input while mediation was ongoing. As far as I can tell, Elonka's understanding of WP:NOT is fine. That policy and the undue weight clause of WP:NPOV come into juncture at the issue of Muhammad images, since the Muslim tradition is predominantly anti-iconic. Thoughtful editors can have legitimate differences of opinion about the proper balance for those competing policy concerns. Her actions looked to me like reasonable ones in terms of site standards and policy. Durova 00:06, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Thoughtful people can disagree on whether the image belongs in the article based on general editorial considerations such as NPOV; but it seems evident that if the image is indeed in the article it should be faithfully reported. Her recommendation suggests a willingness to sacrifice the facts in order to settle a dispute, which is worrisome. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose: Although this user is polite and soft, she's too soft and gets swayed easily. I've interacted with her on the issue of images of Muhammad. In this issue, she has supported censorship of religious images by saying we should replace a certain image or put a show/hide option. She supports compromise if it means breaking Misplaced Pages policies so I'm definitely against her. She has little or no regard for policies in at least one area so I assume she can do the same for other areas too. This is a good user but not strong enough. I doubt she'll be able to resolve disputes and make good decisions. At the least, you need an administrator who has the highest regard for Misplaced Pages policies and she doesn't have that. During my communication with her on this issue of Muhammad images, she tried to make me happy by saying that she did'nt support censorship and all, but the bottom line was that she was supporting censorship (replace them, put a show/hide option). She may be a nice person but she's going to be nothing but trouble, trust me. I saw her "bend" her opinions all because some other people wanted the images to go. She'll face this kind of thing more when she's an admin so it'll make matters worse e.g. she might delete or keep an article to make a small group of people happy even if their viewpoint is irrational - stuff like that. You need someone with a strong sense of appropriate independent judgement and she doesnt fit this requirement, I assure you. I'm sorry Elonka, you supported censorship and for that, I'll strongly oppose you. If you do become an admin, I hope you'll respect Misplaced Pages policies more, thats all I can say. --Matt57 01:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed arguments that the show/hide option constitutes WP:NOT violation, yet I've never located a consensus discussion on that issue. Could you point me to one? The last time I looked it always defaults to show for technical reasons, so I have trouble seeing how that constitutes censorship. Durova 02:12, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

If you investigate more, you would know that she was supporting the default action to be "hide". It was a proposal that SlimVirgin had given (see it here in action). If you look at the Kaaba talk page to see what was going on, she appeared to be willing to appease people who wanted the images out. For that, she's made different kinds of arguments like "replace" (why would you replace a valueable unique relevant ancient painting?) and then she said she was going to compromise by putting in the show/hide option. This is all part of trying to make the image go away, which amounts to censorship. The default action for the template seems to be hide by the way. --Matt57 02:28, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I encountered the show/hide option during the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy discussion over a year ago. At that time, when the template was introduced, the editor who created it explained that it defaulted to show for technical reasons. If someone later overcame that obstacle I'm not aware of it because the next time I looked into matters the template had been removed (couldn't pull anything up from your link to test). That image caption now links to an offsite high res enlargement, by the way. I'd still like to see a consensus discussion that established that template as a WP:NOT violation. Durova 03:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I stand corrected: got a sample of the template and tested it. You're right about the default version. Durova 03:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. Elonka cannot be trusted with the deletion buttons. She has a long history of tagging articles for speedy deletion, which, when put to a discussion, have tended to survive AfD, often with a keep vote. She badly needs the oversight of at least having someone review her nominations before they get deleted, as they are so often dubious. I can see a strong possibility that, if granted the tools, we may be at RFAR in a few months needing them taken away for abuse. Rebecca 02:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I looked into the issue with the Australian Wikiproject before conominating. Specific articles whose versions I read pre-and post-AFD looked like very valid nominations at the time when she put them up. She wasn't excessively rapid about running things into the deletion pipeline either. She tried to communicate proactively but got a curt response that essentially reversed the burden of WP:V and WP:RS. Durova 02:12, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm referring to many, many incidents over the space of several months, and including articles from a wide range of topical areas. Elonka has a long history of attempting to speedy delete articles which were, in I'd estimate more than half of cases, kept at AfD. The issue you refer to above is largely irrelevant to this issue, as it did not concern potential use of admin powers, and is not in any way the source of my opposition here. I'm also a bit bemused as to what "issue with the Australian WikiProject" you claim to have looked into before conominating, because I sure haven't heard of it. These issues are much broader and long-running than any one incident, and the above comment suggests not much research was done into her contributions before the conomination was made. Rebecca 02:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this is what will happen. --Matt57 02:37, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I would agree with Rebecca's characterisation above. Orderinchaos 18:56, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I guess said tagging took place at least 8 months ago; for I've taken the time to review Elonka's last 5,000 contributions to mainspace (not total edits!) up to early December '06, and only found 4 instances where she tagged an article for speedy which survived afterwards (admins can check the huge number of speedy deletion tags she has correctly performed at her deleted edits in the last weeks only). As if mere four cases didn't constitute a very acceptable margin of error (which they do, in my humble opinion), they appear to be either correctly tagged at the time but expanded before deletion , or perfectly excusable borderline cases . None of them were ever taken to AfD. In fact, I've also seen her replace speedy tags with more adequate templates, and was proven to be right afterwards to add to my strong belief that there's no danger in her ever becoming a "delete-happy" admin. Perhaps some diffs that I've somehow overlooked could illustrate this concern? Best regards, Phaedriel - 03:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

This is quite interesting - it suggests that she might have been making an effort to get her act together. Elonka did, for a long time, have a worse record with speedy deletion tags than just about any other editor I've ever seen on Misplaced Pages, and pretty much had to be actively watched because she was tagging stuff to try and disappear articles before they had the chance for wider review. Accordingly, I am very wary about giving her the chance to speedy delete articles without oversight, but these signs of improvement do give me hope that we at least mightn't be back at RFAR in a few months if she does succeed. Rebecca 08:08, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:AGF, please. Very old mistakes that haven't been repeated in many months don't play a factor in my decision. Elonka and I discussed how she handled the original problem and why (upon a request) she returned to a related subject last April, and frankly I think quite a few of those Australian student union articles remain WP:AFD-worthy today (examples: Australian Union of Students, Tasmania University Union, Victoria University Student Union). This is an example of a notable student organization: it got onto the David Letterman and Howard Stern shows and caused an incident that made national news. Durova 03:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I am objecting to Elonka's suitability for admin status based purely on her record with speedy deletion tags, stretching back well into last year, as it directly affects the extent to which you can be trusted with the tools. To the best of memory, she didn't try to delete (let alone speedy delete) any of the articles you're talking about, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing this up, as I've already stated that it is unrelated to the reasons for my objection. Rebecca 08:08, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

If you weigh early actions more heavily than I do then I suppose we reach respectful disagreement. The shopping center articles were something I looked into in less detail because that issue was older, but the shape of things seemed quite similar to the student union issue. When the only reference is the organization's website, of course a reasonable editor nominates for deletion after a month's tagging fails to inspire improvement. A flurry of activity often followed when she nominated the pages along with some acrimony. I did have serious discussion with her about conflict resolution, but she had the wisdom to walk away, and again that was fairly early in her editing history. That's how I evaluated the matter and I can understand if you reach a different conclusion. Durova 13:50, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I respect that Rebecca and other members of WikiProject Australia feel strongly that there should be articles about certain Australian subjects, even if those articles do not have confirming sources. For example, several of the topics at {{NUS}}. I can't say as I agree with that position -- I still believe that to be on Misplaced Pages, any article must contain third-party sources which affirm the subject's notability. But I am doing my best to WP:AGF. Over the last several months, I have backed off recommending speedy-deletion of such articles, and instead done my best to express concerns at talkpages, or via {{prod}} tags. --El on ka 22:30, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

No, this is a misrepresentation of what I've said. Elonka has a long history of systematically targeting unreferenced articles in areas that she deems not notable for speedy deletion, often greatly stretching the speedy deletion criteria beyond anything they were intended to cover to make articles disappear before someone can object. I do not recall a single such dispute where Elonka had actually raised substantial concerns about an article's ability to be verified - rather, they were unsourced articles that she deemed not notable and wanted to make vanish. Rebecca 02:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I have frequently tagged articles for speedy-deletion via the {{db}} tag. In the vast majority of cases, administrators agreed with my assessment, and then they deleted the articles. I would also point out that on some of these, Rebecca then used her own admin tools to undelete articles about Australia-related subjects, but then her actions were overturned by consensus at DRV. For examples, see these logs of a few of her undeletions: Also, though I apologize to those who may regard my comment as combative, I feel strongly that Rebecca should not have used her admin tools to undelete those articles in the first place, since she was actively involved in the related discussions. --El on ka 07:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Rebecca, it would help if you supplied diffs to support these very serious accusations. Before Elonka's candidacy opened I asked her to disclose any objections that might arise during RFA, because if something new and serious came to light that I hadn't already examined to my satisfaction I'd strikethrough my conomination. I was and am willing to do that. She brought extensive evidence to my attention and my own investigations went well beyond that. So far, Rebecca, the only thing you have actually demonstrated is a serious breach of WP:AGF regarding my research. Durova 15:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose There are certainly more than 4 articles speedily tagged by Elonka that have survived. One sticks in my mind as I had initially created the article. . I remember quite a few more too, without trawling through the posts. I would like to say that Elonka is a fantastic editor and exceptional contributor to Misplaced Pages, however her history of disruption (a good example being the naming conventions) vanity articles and large number of links to her own website makes me wary of entrusting Elonka with more tools. •CHILLDOUBT• 09:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear Chill doubt, indeed; there are more than 4... if we go back and beyond no less than 9 months ago, as I said above (I didn't feel like reviewing entries "that" old!). The article you mention was tagged by her back in November '06 . Plenty of stuff has happened in the meantime; and as I showed above, since those old days, few examples of db-tagging from her that didn't end up in deletion took place, and even those appear to be excusable. Best regards, Phaedriel - 09:59, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose: Shameless self-promoter, who has figured out how to manipulate Misplaced Pages. Danny 15:43, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Ouch. Danny means this. It was a year ago, but I see he still hasn't forgotten it. Note that the Misplaced Pages community met it with an overwhelming rejection of Danny's claim. I had hoped it was behind us all. --AnonEMouse 17:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

It would be helpful if Danny would actually provide some diffs, or some kind of evidence, to support his assertions, rather than simply flinging insults at the candidate. I hardly think that calling someone a "shameless self-promoter", without any kind of evidence whatsoever, is conduct befitting a Misplaced Pages administrator (which may prove a point I've made elsewhere, but we won't go into that here). Walton 11:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose In my observation this user opposes the existence of certain classes of articles to the level of WP:POINT violation, and after having read the Naming conventions ArbCom at the time it was occurring, I was quite alarmed at the user's lack of willingness to engage with others or to abide by consensus. At AfD abiding by consensus is *vital*, so in my view they should not have the tools. Orderinchaos 18:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

What classes of articles would these be, please? Durova 04:28, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. There should be good reasons a contributor with 30,000 edits isn't already an admin. I know Elonka longer than the nominators themselves, and I feel that she is not the person who can be trusted with admin buttons. What is more important, I haven't seen any real change in demeanour since Elonka's last candidacy. Rebecca's and Danny's votes above only increase my unease. --Ghirla 19:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose Per Rebecca, and especially Danny. Pilotguy 19:34, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Er, you may notice that Danny provided absolutely no diffs or evidence to support his evaluation of the candidate. Walton 11:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

However, might also be worth highlighting that very few diffs have been produced to support claims made in her favour. Orderinchaos 04:04, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, at least as far as my own comments are concerned; every claim or contribution to this discussion I've made, I've tried to demonstrate with proper diff links. The great respect I have for many editors who have chosen to oppose at this particular RfA, some of whom are dear friends and people I hold in the highest regard, demand no less. Take note, however, that no evidence to disprove the substantiated arguments I've presented has been brought yet. Phaedriel - 05:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per Rebecca. Zocky | picture popups 22:11, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per Danny and Rebecca. One 23:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per Orderinchaos.--cj | talk 00:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose: While Elonka's a very prolific and intelligent editor, some of the behaviors raised by the prior oppose !voters with more direct experience with this candidate gave me immediate "go neutral" pause about how she'd be as an admin. The more I've looked, waiting around for answers to my questions, the less I've liked what I'm seeing. (whatever the ArbCom decided, evidentiary links to one's edit history don't lie). Even aside from chronic (note I do not say constant) disruptiveness, wikilawyering, failure to understand how consensus works, compromise at the expense of WP:CENSOR, editwarring, inappropriate attempts at speedy deletion, and such, there's just something deeper that's not quite right here, something overly self-interested. I don't ever recall anyone else with an alleged vanity article up for AfD who defended it by engaging in indignant assertions of their own awesomeness in the third person like Bob Dole. That may have been months ago (I made mistakes back then, too, and have changed), I don't see sufficient evidence of Elonka internally absorbing the Wikinature any better, just getting more skilled at playing the game. A case in point would be the avoidance of uncomfortable questions on this RfA (and she has been plenty active today; I checked Special:Contributions), while letting her rather aggressive supporters rant against those daring to ask non-fluffy questions. If this were my RfA they'd've already been asked by me to refrain from any further comment, I would have apologized to those ranted at, and answered their questions; but Elonka seems to feel that her win-margin is secure enough or something that she doesn't have to do anything but sit back and wait. With several more days to go that might not actually be the case. Anyway, once the whiff of wikipoliticking in the air, that's it for me. — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 00:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Strong Oppose Per Ned Scott, Karl, Rebecca, Danny, OIC, and SMcCandlish. I don't vote at RfA often, but when I heard that this user was again being nominated I felt the need to voice my concern. All the issues involving this user have already been outlined above in the oppose votes, and I would concur with the oppose consensus that giving this user the keys to the en.wikipedia kingdom would be akin to Dracula working at the blood bank. A dangerous user who does not act within consensus and could become a significant problem when allowed to work without oversight. Thewinchester 01:16, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Where did you hear that this user was again being nominated? -- Jreferee 06:33, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't even try and accuse me or others of WP:CANVASS, it's not going to fly. I heard about it from an uninvolved unconnected party who mentioned it in unrelated conversation off-wiki. Thewinchester 07:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't like where this sort of question is leading, personally. Why not ask that question of any one of the support voters? It took me a lot to post my oppose vote after how some of the others got treated above, and I'm glad to see that the bullying of oppose voters has eased off a bit on this RfA. Orderinchaos 09:33, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Thewinchester posted in this RfA that "I heard that this user was again being nominated I felt the need to voice my concern" so my question to Thewinchester - "Where did you hear that this user was again being nominated" - was fair. The act of receiving an opinion soliciation is not canvassing. However if others have discussed participating in this RfA elsewhere prior to posting here, or came here because somebody asked them too, or read a message on a forum, they should provide enough disclosure in this RfA so that it may be taken into account in determining consensus. -- Jreferee 15:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Ghirla. -- Y not? 04:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I still feel uncomfortable with Elonka becoming an admin, and thus I must still oppose. DS 04:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per Rebecca and Orderinchaos above. I too have seen this user's deletions in the past, and although I have seen from this RFA that her actions have improved dramatically and I would be willing to reconsider this in the future, I cannot support her promotion to admin at this time. Sorry. JRG 05:58, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per Rebecca, Danny & Orderinchaos. I rarely vote against someone on a RfA, but this is an extreme case. This user has massive issues with WP:POINT as mentioned by OIC above. Maybe in 2 years. Twenty Years 10:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose, I do not trust Elonka to use the deletion button sensibly. Also, I am quite surprised the article on her is still on Misplaced Pages. It is, basically, a CV we are hosting for her. The notability claims are awful (compiled one book ranked #119,439 on Amazon (), works for a computer games company, has her own website with a CV on it. I'm more notable than that.); Danny's claims of Elonka's manipulating Misplaced Pages for bare-faced publicity seem to have some weight. Neil ╦ 11:41, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose I agree with Bec and OIC above. I've known about this RfA for a few weeks and so I have given it a lot of thought and I'm still very concerned about Elonka's attitude to DreamGuy. I'm not a DG fan, defender or supporter so this isn't about DG, it's purely about this RfA. During the last RfA it was obvious to me that Elonka and DG are like gas to each other's fire and that the best thing would be for both to have nothing to do with each other. Yet instead of leaving DG alone, Elonka has apparently continued, at least, at times, to pursue him. He, and others, have continued to accuse her of stalking and harassing him. She denies this but IMO the very fact that he feels harassed is reason enough for her to just stay away from him and if any actions need to be taken against DG, it would be best if she let a third party (probably preferably an admin, from what I can see) step in. Yet Elonka apparently considered it appropriate for her to create Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of DreamGuy. The cat was speedy deleted by User:Zscout370 with the deletion summary, "no confirmed socks, made in a dispute, requested to be speedied at ANI". Last month, Elonka wrote in the ANI discussion about this category, "I'm I have to admit confusion as to why you're accusing me of harassment, considering we have practically no contact." I would suggest that you don't need to have significant direct contact with a person to harass them and that a lot of activities that could constitute harassment and even wiki-stalking may be done without direct contact and even via back-channels. I'm not questioning the validity of the cat (to be honest, I have no clue if ii was valid or not) and its validity really doesn't matter, my problem is that even knowing DG feels harassed by her, she created the cat rather than letting someone else do it. I think the problems with DG have shown poor judgement, in addition to that outlined by Bec and OIC above, which is likely to have the effect of creating huge drama and disruption should Elonka actually be acting as an admin. I see some of my good friends up there supporting, and I'd really like to be neutral just out of respect for them and for Will's nomination, but I'm sorry the bottom line here is trust and I am strongly opposed to this nomination because I simply don't trust her. Sarah 11:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Just for the record, DreamGuy and I have patched things up. It would no longer be correct to say that he and I are feuding. --El on ka 17:56, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per OiC & Ned Scott above. Eusebeus 14:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Changing from neutral to oppose. Per Sarah and my first set of concerns below as well as Elonka's clear refusal to answer any of the subsequent questions or comments made since. No, I also don't like when people respond to every oppose vote but she's apparently not going to respond to anything said by oppose voters, including Q9, Q10 and Q12, even though she is happy to assist support voters. This is the typical Elonka behavior that she exhibited so many months ago.

In addition I'm recalling other parts of her repertoire that I am uneasy with such as conducting all Misplaced Pages business off wiki. (All of those edits are just in the last several days BTW).
I'm also seeing an annoying trend of warning IPs 4 hours or as much as 12 hours after vandalism. That's a pointless exercise that is likely to bother someone other than the vandal and turn off potential new users. I worry that she will block in cases like that which will be even worse. (I would ask her stance on that except she's apparently no longer answering questions).
Responding to comments elsewhere, I don't agree that she shouldn't be editing articles about her ancestors, esp. if it is to remove the parts of the articles sourced by her WP:OR. She almost has to do it since the citations were not done inline. It would be difficult for anyone else to determine what parts were sourced by what. An outsider would either have to really dig in and investigate to fix the policy breach introduced by Elonka or else just stub the entire article which is an obvious disservice.

Sorry if this is getting longwinded but this is typical when I scan through Elonka's contribs: the discomfort level rises quickly, esp. when I think of her having sysop rights. —Wknight94 (talk) 15:00, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I would like to just respond to this, since I am mentioned in those edits. I'd like to clarify that I've only recently met Elonka, by chance, and she was friendly, welcoming and warm (unlike many folks). I met her when she dropped a note on my talk page to say she enjoyed seeing my contributions. That link showing her reply is taken very much out of context. The context was that I'd told her I didn't have many people to talk to, and if she was ever bored, to shoot me a message, after which she replied that she's on MSN, and if I used Instant Messaging programs, she'd be happy to chat there since it was easier.

I'd suggest that the link to my talk page (that is the one linked to the word "Misplaced Pages") be disregarded, because it was posted with the intention of simple interaction, and you can see on her talk page I was talking about things such as we both play the piano, etc.

As for my vote, I have not voted on an RfA yet (I've read many, many applications however) and I do have an opinion on this one, but I am still doing some reading and reviewing, and I plan on voting soon. In conclusion, I'd like to make sure that it is understood that Elonka has been one of the few people who have made me feel like I belong (after 2 years here). I registered in August of 2005 (although I had contributed prior to that, I didn't create an account until then) and while I did not do a lot of edits in the past year+, due to work/grad school/etc, when I did begin to be a contributing part of the community, I felt a bit left out, and Elonka made me feel very welcome, as well as being extremely helpful. Thank you, 15:32, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose, too much to consider to sit on the fence any more. Yes, great contributor, but having looked into why others have moved from neutral to oppose, I share the uneasy feeling about trusting Elonka with the tools right now. Hopefully not never, just not yet. Deiz talk 15:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per SMcCandlish. Epbr123 18:12, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose out of touch with concensus and process on deletion criteria. Can't trust Elonka to show necessary restraint with the tools. SchmuckyTheCat

Oppose per Danny. I am very wary of giving admin tools to editors who aren't circumspect – even to the point of being vigilantly so – about WP:COI.--G-Dett 20:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Strong Oppose per Rebecca. Can't trust her when it comes to deletion cases, and would likely click delete in controversial cases without second thought or against consensus. --Arnzy (talk · contribs) 01:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per Sarah. I have the greatest respect for many of the supporters above but I cannot support this editor. I think the very recent events mentioned by Sarah are not acceptable for an editor and especially not for an admin. JodyB_{yak, yak, yak} 02:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. Too many concerns expressed by respected editors, particularly consensus concerns. If we are to err here, we should err on the side of caution. -- But|seriously|folks 02:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose After reviewing your previous RFA and the oppositions, I do not feel comfortable with giving you administrative functionality. This is not to say however, I think you are a poor editor or do not have wonderful contributions to Misplaced Pages - but I am deeply concerned by the comments raised in your Oppose/Neutral sections. --Ozgod 03:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per Matt, Karl, and Ned Scott. Arrow740 03:44, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per Wknight94 and Sarah (changed from neutral). A great and prolific editor and a fascinating and talented person to have on the team, but continuing concerns about her temperament. As I think I said the last time round, edit for a few months without getting into any dramas, clean up the COI question marks around the page on you, and there is no reason we couldn't promote. As of now, regretful oppose. --John 05:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose a critical quality of an admin is to recognize when his or her personal views are not consensus. I cannot trust that the nominee would make the judicious calls of keeping articles or letting others decide (at afd rather than a speedy) in close situations, when her personal choice would be to delete them. Carlossuarez46 05:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Strong Oppose, based upon many valid concerns brought up by editors above (particularly SMcCandlish and User:Wknight94). Extensive reading of the candidate's first RfA and the concerns raised there have given me the very distinct impression that not much has changed. I honestly can not trust that the candidate would not misuse the tools, and believe that the candidate would be better suited to being a prolific editor rather than a controversial administrator. *Vendetta* _{(whois talk edits)} 06:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - I haven't edited wikipedia for several months, and this RfA only came to my attention when another wikipedian emailed me with “Make sure to vote on Elonka's RfA as you've interacted with this user before”. While i was editing Misplaced Pages, i had one major encounter with Elonka that lasted several months, and resulted in the . The many weeks i spent dealing with her during the course of this dispute leads me to strongly oppose this nomination for the simple reason that i cannot trust her to use admin tools sensibly, and to not take unfair advantage of her position as an administrator during disputes should she be granted this position. I'll give one example of why i say i cannot trust her with admin tools – when a page is renamed (i.e. Moved), the old name automatically becomes a redirect page. However, anyone (i.e. Non-admins) can reverse the move as long as this automatically created redirect page is never edited again. In the page move wars during this dispute, Elonka made useless edits (e.g. Inserting a white space) to redirect pages that were created by article moves, just to make sure that no one else could reverse her page moves. This means the page moves she made would be 'stuck' unless and admin came in and deleted the redirect. This is a clear example of gaming the system to further herself in a page move war (which is a bad thing to start with) where she and all others involved where non-admins. Now, if she had been an administrator, what reason would I have to believe she would not also have used her admin powers to further herself? (For the record, the evidence for this incident is ], however, most of the redirects in question where deleted at some point by admins. So the links on that page are to deleted version and will only work for admins). know this is old (the ArbCom case happened in December last year), but reading the reasons behind the 30 or so other oppose votes here, i've found no evidence that her behaviour has improved at all in the last seven months. Yes, she has made many valuble contributions to articles, but at the end, i think what shows the most about an editor is how they handle disputes, especially ones where they are on the 'wrong side'. Everyone can handle things well when they are being supported by other people, but when they are on the 'losing side' of a dispute, how they react says a lot. Elonka, in that one dispute i witnessed, showed she was willing to do everything and anything to prove that she was 'right', to the point of trying to game the wikipedia system, throwing around false accusations, and being downright misleading. Things like this are hard to prove, but i think ] nails it fairly well. Being an administrator is proof that you are a trusted and respected member of the community - especially for those new to wikipedia who may not yet understand what an “administrator” on wikipedia means. Being an administrator makes you a role-model, and (in some sense) a representative of the wikipedia community, it means a newbie who isn't familiar with wikipedia himself will take you more seriously and trust what you say about wikipedia. There are systems in place to ensure administrators don't abuse their tools, but as i just pointed out, tools aren't the only thing adminship gives to you. We need to trust our administrators to respect consensus and policies, even when they don't personally agree. And this is where Elonka fails. --`/aksha 07:28, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

...this RfA only came to my attention when another wikipedian emailed me with “Make sure to vote on Elonka's RfA as you've interacted with this user before”. Am I the only one who finds this disturbing per WP:CANVASS? Durova 07:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

There was no direction given by said user on how to perform the operation, so I don't see how it would violate WP:CANVASS. Oddly, canvass does not (although should) cover email and other off wiki communication. Informing or advertising a controversial RfA in order that the closing admin can best determine what the community's sentiment actually is, is certainly not against Wiki's stated policies or unstated rules. Orderinchaos 07:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Comment" There's also no evidence of any bulk component to this. Personally notifying a specific individual that you are certain will be interested in what you notifying them of isn't canvassing. And what people do off-WP can never be effectively regulated by WP (BTW, if you think that RFCs against problem editors are not frequently planned and coordinated between groups of upset editors off-WP in e-mail, you are quite mistaken...) I appreciate Yaksha for being forthcoming about the matter. Most would simply never have said anything about why they were here. — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 08:03, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

"There's also no evidence of any bulk component to this" ... "Most would simply never have said anything about why they were here." Yep, I think you've identified the problem pretty effectively. WjBscribe 08:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Now you're just speculating. Whoever did this hasn't done anything wrong (and no, it wasn't me). From Yaksha's comment it sounds like the message was directed at one person, and was a neutral notification. Yaksha hasn't edited in months, so it would make sense to contact him via e-mail. It's just as likely that there is no canvassing going on here. -- Ned Scott 08:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's a proper example of a WP:CANVASS violation (brought to you by Elonka): . —Wknight94 (talk) 11:21, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Wknight94, do you assert that the email sent to this editor was proper, or do you agree that it's improper to selectively notify people about an RFA based on an expectation of how they'll comment? Also, I'm sorry don't see the logic behind your evidence. Are you saying that if one person does something wrong, other people are also allowed to do something wrong? Are you saying that notifying people that they've been mentioned in an Arbcom case is improper? Jehochman 12:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

It should have been made clearer that in many of the above cases she was the one who "mentioned" them in the ArbCom immediately prior to notifying them. It was plain and simple canvassing in my view. Orderinchaos 12:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

From the WP:CANVASS page: "Canvassing is the distribution of messages to a targeted audience on a scale that exceeds that of ordinary interpersonal correspondence. Canvassing may be deemed a misuse of Misplaced Pages resources if: 1) the content of the messages entails bias intended to unfairly skew the outcome of a matter under dispute; 2) the audience is targeted on the basis of partisanship, or other factors favoring a given "side" in a dispute; 3) the scale of the distribution is unreasonably wide or indiscriminate; or 4) the canvassing is otherwise disruptive to the operation of Misplaced Pages, its users, or contributors. The act of receiving the message is not canvassing by the person receiving the message."

You might be able to make a case for 3, but even if that's the case, it's a different type of canvassing from what we're discussing here. I don't see how her comments there could be considered in any way to be trying to gain support.--Infophile 12:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

By themselves, no. In context of the Arbcom proceeding as it unfolded, with the pages of associated discussion, and especially with regard to timing, in my mind absolutely yes. The worse it got for her, the more she did it, and it was commented on at the time. I should note here that I was neutral in the debate and was not in any way involved, but did read the thing as it progressed and ended up concluding that this person's means and ends, including endless wikilawyering, were thoroughly unreasonable - although her opponents in some cases were not without their own issues, even though they could argue they were acting on an 80% consensus established in their favour repeatedly, which the arbitrators openly acknowledged. The fact they chose not to act says more about them than the candidate in my belief - it was an acknowledgement that the situation was a mess and that no ground was to be gained by punishing anyone for past offences. The sad part is that some of the behaviour I saw then is continuing as recently as two weeks ago. Orderinchaos 13:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, OIC. Jehochman 13:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

All right then, striking through my comment. Durova 14:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per Ned Scott. Yzak Jule 12:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Note to closing bureaucrat: user inactive since March 3 until today, and barely any edits since January. His other edit today consisted in vandalizing another editor's userpage with a personal attack. Phaedriel - 12:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose per many of the above, particularly Wknight94. I have no doubt that Elonka is a good contributor to Misplaced Pages, but I do not believe she will handle the tools appropriately. -- Merope 13:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. Elonka is a valuable contributor to our project, but per all the issues raised above, I'm not confident that she would use the tools in a careful and reasonable manner. Krimpet 13:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - Elonka has improved a lot since last RFA, and deserves to be commended for that. Unfortunately, she didn’t pick it up to an extent that I start to feel comfortable with her having delete and block buttons yet. Ground for that feel is the ongoing - in my view - stubborn unwillingness to trust other people to deal with the actions of DreamGuy, and it seems ‘s still nurturing that vendetta till personal end goals are reached. Is she going to avoid acting on a rancor when the extra buttons give that extra little bit of persuasive power? I fear an occasional snap into vengeful-authoritative-mode. If adminship wasn’t such a holy long lasting sticky editor privilege, I would take the chance and support. --Van helsing 13:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Does that opinion take into consideration that she'll be open to recall? As her conominator I've promised that if I ever saw her misuse the tools and we couldn't work things out through private discussion I'd open an RFC on her myself. Durova 15:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I did consider the fact that you’ve asked Elonka to be open to recall, which I initially found a reassuring aspect. It however also has the strange effect of both precluding and validating concerns. In general, being open to recall is a step in the right direction, but it’s still a bit too easy to avoid potential negative consequences. --Van helsing 16:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Could I ask you why you're defending her so much here? She should be able to defend herself and stand up for herself. She hasnt responded much on this page to people's concerns, which is another negative point about her. She doesnt respond to concerns. I noticed this at the Kaaba article too. If she cant stand for herself and respond to concerns, she shouldnt be an admin. I dont mean to be hard on anyone but who said being an admin was easy? It demands a lot. --Matt57 15:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Matt, I've conominated her. You've made your position very clear, and if you think I've extended myself too far please demonstrate good faith by striking through loaded question no. 12 and some of your other statements. I don't see anything wrong about discussing recall with an editor since I was the one who offered to initiate a recall action if that were ever necessary. I hope other editors are fully apprised how I mean: I checked out my doubts quite extensively before I decided to back Elonka's candidacy and I doubt very much that she would ever need a recall. Durova 17:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

oppose for Misplaced Pages decision making process is about consensus, with AFD is sufficiently transparent that non admins can understand the reasonings and the consequences. In less structured enviroments like WP:CSD the transparency is more opaque we need to be able to trust the actions of admins to reach appropriate conclusions, without oversight. After reading the above comments I can accept that an editor had a COI and reformed. That the editor was party to an arbcom case where Elonka disputed what was consensus, the enforcability of a guideline and also complained of inappropriate harassment and alck lack of good faith. I can recognise this was in December some 7 months ago now and people can and do learn so again I can accept that the editor had reformed from this event. I can even see advising editors that you had mentioned them in an arbcom as more a courtessy than canvassing, though the coutessy as detailed above is to editors she mentioned a insupport of her arguments. Yet come May 2007 Elonka was the one not assuming good faith, was the one harassing DG diff provided by user:Sarah. Ultimately its this continous repetition of not following policy that at the moment sways my opinion. I also respect and trust the judgement of User:WJBscribe as such I recognise that this editor has the ability reform and has taken step towards that end, its just that I dont see enough time since these incidents and other documented incidents to consider other options. Gnan garra 15:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Neutral

~~Neutral~~: I would have opposed based on the RFAR we were involved in but folks seem to think she's lightened up a bit since then (and I'll admit to not having kept track since). That RFAR showed a very unsettling tendency for an admin where she flat refused to acknowledge an obvious consensus until the ArbCom settled the debate for her. A few other points that still stick out for me:

WP:COI issues are still not settled to my satisfaction. Articles for various family members of hers are still sourced with her own original research (http://www.elonka.com, etc.) despite her being told about it: Antoni Dunin, Rodryg Dunin, Stanley Dunin, Raphael Kalinowski, Edward Werner, Eduard Strasburger, Agnieszka Baranowska, Edmund Taczanowski. Jimbo Wales (talk · contribs) himself stubbed one of the articles but others remain. Also linked to her own page at Alfred Niezychowski, Peter Zika and Elsie Ivancich Dunin. Many of these links to her own site were put in place by her and remain to this day.
Had fair use images on a user page until they were removed by another user just a few months ago, clear violation of WP:FUC.
Misunderstands notability guidelines as evidenced by her tagging The Dillinger Escape Plan as non-notable, a band that has over a dozen albums available at Amazon!
Back to the RFAR days, she engaged in move blocking (making negligible modifications to redirects to prevent return moves). Viewable in deleted edits at Everybody Hates Hugo, Live Together, Die Alone, The Glass Ballerina, Further Instructions, Not in Portland. Nasty behavior unbecoming of an admin.

—Wknight94 (talk) 17:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I note too that the number of links to elonka.com has actually grown quite a bit since the last RFA. "COI concerns are in her past" may be a bit overstated. —Wknight94 (talk) 17:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I feel compelled to respond to some of these complaints with a "So fix it". Elonka hasn't edited these articles for over a year, and given that she shouldn't be editing them at all, it's up to others to remove any original research she added early in her career. Plus, the one that Jimbo blanked was never edited by Elonka in the first place. Philwelch 19:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

At the time, I considered that but figured she would once again lodge an unfounded accusation of stalking. Hopefully everyone is correct and she has mellowed enough to allow someone to "fix it" and stub the articles that are based on her WP:OR. —Wknight94 (talk) 19:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any problem if someone goes in with the vacuum cleaner and gets the dust out of the corners. It's a catch-22 for people who meet the site's notability threshold, so help is welcome. Durova 19:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

~~Neutral~~: A fantastically productive and intelligent editor, but some of the behaviors raised by the oppose !voters give me pause, especially disruptiveness and editwarring (I'm still following the arguments up there about whether these concerns are valid), and lack of faith in WP:NOTCENSORED (with regard to the old art; I'm less concerned about the thorny Mohammed images issue). — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 00:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC) Changed to oppose. — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 00:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

~~Remaining neutral~~ pending answer to at least one of my questions. The first one is more important to me; the second is more of a rather basic test, and any editor with 30K edits of experience would be very unlikely to fail it. <shrug> — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 12:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

~~Neutral~~ Clearly a prolific editor, and I look forward to welcoming Elonka to the fold and seeing her grow as a prolific administrator. However, with regard to my question above, her tagging of The Dillinger Escape Plan as non-notable and related edits to the TDEP talk page, I'm a little worried about some inconsistencies in her application of WP:V and WP:RS. A band with a large catalogue of popular releases, notable tours etc. gets notability and fact tags, but an unsourced biography section in a BLP article requires no such action because the subject of the article (who previously took an active interest in editing the article) affirms the information to be true? An admin should be keen to demand sources in any BLP article and tag or remove unverified info accordingly, even if they are the subject of the article. Deiz talk 07:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Changed to oppose. Deiz talk 15:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Are referring to a notability tag placed in November 2006? If so, it's been 8 months, look at Phaedriel's research for more recent stuff. As for editing Elonka Dunin: she got criticized when she edited it, and now you're criticizing her because she's not editing it. (This is what I mean she has put up with a lot: she can't win.) WP:BLP allows editing by the subject to remove false information, but interpreting it as demanding the subject remove true information she doesn't object to is a bit much. Anyway, I looked at the article, and it seems that everything controversial in there is well cited; if there is something you think needs citation, please discuss it on that article talk page and I will source it or remove it myself. This should be about User:Elonka, the editor, not the article subject. --AnonEMouse 13:58, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd look for any potential admin to insist on visible sources in any BLP article, particularly the "Biography" section of an article that has proved contentious. Factoring this in, I'm nowhere near oppose but not quite moved to support. Deiz talk 16:15, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Deiz. Administrators need to avoid using the tools in any situation where they potentially are not neutral. The third paragraph of Misplaced Pages:Administrators states, "administrators acting in this role are neutral; they do not have any direct involvement in the issues they are helping people with." Because Elonka is not neutral and is directly involved in Elonka Dunin as the subject of that article, I do not think Elonka should use her position as an admin to insist on visible sources in the contentious BLP Elonka Dunin article. -- Jreferee 18:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense. WP:BLP and WP:V are policy; it would not be any form of conflict of interest at all for Elonka to insist that policy be followed in any article, including Elonka Dunin, and this can be done without editing it, e.g. by flagging problems on the talk page, and taking the article to WP:AFD if they are not addressed. — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 20:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that, but no admin powers are required here. It is entirely possible for an editor to neutrally edit an article they are referenced in, it just doesn't happen very often. All that is required here is the addition of sources - no content need be created, edited or removed if the info is verifiable. If Elonka knows where to find them, I don't think she should wait to be asked. Deiz talk 01:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Neutral In an alternative time stream, I would have written something along the lines of "support, I thought this person already was an Admin", but the last time I stepped into a discussion about Adminship so that much enthusiasm, I ended up screwing the pooch. I'll just limit myself this time to asking everyone to carefully examinine the evidence & participate accordingly. -- llywrch 22:23, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Neutral The Elonka Dunin article sure seems like "vanispam" to me. Probably about half of us in this discussion could have a biography of comparable notability. User:Elonka seems to have ignored the bio for a long time, and because of that I won't oppose, but I think having such a hagiographic article like this about one of our administrators reflects poorly on the integrity of the entire project. --JayHenry 18:32, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Neutral pending answers to questions 9 and 12. --John 18:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC) (changed to oppose)
Neutral Just too much information and arguments from both sides to be able to truly decide. Jmlk 1 7 22:14, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Analysis paralysis? :) Haukur 12:39, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:56, 30 July 2007 editElonka (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators70,960 edits →Discussion: - Reply to Sarah← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:12, 30 July 2007 edit undoSMcCandlish (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors201,742 editsm Jehochman, do no modify the content of other's votes. WP does not need you to act as Typo Sherrif (PS: Please try checking a dictionary before "correcting" others; "judgement" is a valid spelling!)Next edit →
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	:<s>'''11.'''</s> Selecting one item listed at ] that has a strong majority !vote count to delete, but on faulty justifications (misunderstanding of policy, "I don't like it", etc.), explain, citing relevant policies, guidelines, procedures and/or precedent, why the article should be kept (alternatively, invert delete and keep; or select a CfD, TfD, or MfD instead if nothing in AfD seems to fit this pattern, though that is highly unlikely; or select an AfD that has already closed as "delete" that you think should not have been, and has not been sent to ] yet. Please keep your personal opinion of the subjective value of the item or its topic out of the equation, as this is a demonstration of administrative not editorial ~~judgment~~, of something you would close as ''keep'' (or ''no consensus'' at worst) on the basis of policy and the basis that a "consensus" of inapplicable nonsense is not a consensus.		:<s>'''11.'''</s> Selecting one item listed at ] that has a strong majority !vote count to delete, but on faulty justifications (misunderstanding of policy, "I don't like it", etc.), explain, citing relevant policies, guidelines, procedures and/or precedent, why the article should be kept (alternatively, invert delete and keep; or select a CfD, TfD, or MfD instead if nothing in AfD seems to fit this pattern, though that is highly unlikely; or select an AfD that has already closed as "delete" that you think should not have been, and has not been sent to ] yet. Please keep your personal opinion of the subjective value of the item or its topic out of the equation, as this is a demonstration of administrative not editorial judgement, of something you would close as ''keep'' (or ''no consensus'' at worst) on the basis of policy and the basis that a "consensus" of inapplicable nonsense is not a consensus.
	::I don't normally butt into these, but Q11 is one of the most loaded questions I've seen. This could take hours to do! You are in effect asking the candidate to go and judge the consensus on just about every AfD in an effort to answer your question, and if they can't find a suitable one, hell, they should move on to MfDs. With the greatest respect to SMcCandlish, Elonka, if you're listening, I wouldn't bother. ] 09:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)		::I don't normally butt into these, but Q11 is one of the most loaded questions I've seen. This could take hours to do! You are in effect asking the candidate to go and judge the consensus on just about every AfD in an effort to answer your question, and if they can't find a suitable one, hell, they should move on to MfDs. With the greatest respect to SMcCandlish, Elonka, if you're listening, I wouldn't bother. ] 09:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
	:::I thought the same thing, and asked SMcCandlish if they wouldn't mind simplifying it, or suggesting an appropriate discussion to evaluate, request politely declined. <b>]</b> <small>]</small> 09:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)		:::I thought the same thing, and asked SMcCandlish if they wouldn't mind simplifying it, or suggesting an appropriate discussion to evaluate, request politely declined. <b>]</b> <small>]</small> 09:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
	::::That sounds rather a bit overprotective. I used the same questions at load of RfAs today, and plenty of hopefuls rapidly asnwered them. I was hardly the originator of this line of questioning (and the version I got didn't even have any options available). I think you are reading it too way too literally. It doesn't mean ''literally'' read every single AfD there is, it means look around for a landslide of obvious "me too", "I don't like it", "I don't know it", etc. type reasoning, with a handful of well reasoned opposing !votes that are based in real policy and explain what the faults are on the wrong-headed majority side. This is really a pretty darned basic ~~exercise~~, and is directly reflective of what real admins have to do. And really only takes a few minutes to find one – just in the rash of new Harry Potter cruft AfDs there's a lot of emotive loveit/hateit nonsense "arguments" (noise) being presented, on both sides. And she can can invert it and look for a landslide of boneheaded "keeps", doubling the odds of finding one, or go to TfD (hint, hint - many of the arguments in there are frequently way off-kilter; easy pickings). I had one candidate report back with a landslide but wrongheaded ''merge'', which was just as interesting. So, like, don't ] please. :-) — <b><span style="font-family:Tahoma;">]</span></b> []] []] <b>‹(-¿-)›</b> 12:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC)		::::That sounds rather a bit overprotective. I used the same questions at load of RfAs today, and plenty of hopefuls rapidly asnwered them. I was hardly the originator of this line of questioning (and the version I got didn't even have any options available). I think you are reading it too way too literally. It doesn't mean ''literally'' read every single AfD there is, it means look around for a landslide of obvious "me too", "I don't like it", "I don't know it", etc. type reasoning, with a handful of well reasoned opposing !votes that are based in real policy and explain what the faults are on the wrong-headed majority side. This is really a pretty darned basic excercise, and is directly reflective of what real admins have to do. And really only takes a few minutes to find one – just in the rash of new Harry Potter cruft AfDs there's a lot of emotive loveit/hateit nonsense "arguments" (noise) being presented, on both sides. And she can can invert it and look for a landslide of boneheaded "keeps", doubling the odds of finding one, or go to TfD (hint, hint - many of the arguments in there are frequently way off-kilter; easy pickings). I had one candidate report back with a landslide but wrongheaded ''merge'', which was just as interesting. So, like, don't ] please. :-) — <b><span style="font-family:Tahoma;">]</span></b> []] []] <b>‹(-¿-)›</b> 12:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
	:::::Any further discussion of this should please go to ]; protracted commentor-to-commentor debates on RfA pages aren't a Good Thing. — <b><span style="font-family:Tahoma;">]</span></b> []] []] <b>‹(-¿-)›</b> 00:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)		:::::Any further discussion of this should please go to ]; protracted commentor-to-commentor debates on RfA pages aren't a Good Thing. — <b><span style="font-family:Tahoma;">]</span></b> []] []] <b>‹(-¿-)›</b> 00:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

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	:::So you changed your own opinion of Replacing the image to keeping the image because consensus said so? Why did you decide on a Replace in the first place and why did you change your mind based on what other people are saying? i.e., where's your own judgement? You changed your stance on an issue depending on what people wanted. Thats not a good sign of strong independent judgement. --] <sup>(]•])</sup> 00:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)		:::So you changed your own opinion of Replacing the image to keeping the image because consensus said so? Why did you decide on a Replace in the first place and why did you change your mind based on what other people are saying? i.e., where's your own judgement? You changed your stance on an issue depending on what people wanted. Thats not a good sign of strong independent judgement. --] <sup>(]•])</sup> 00:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

	::::In my opinion, people don't need to have strong independent ~~judgment~~ to become administrators. ] 01:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)		::::In my opinion, people don't need to have strong independent judgement to become administrators. ] 01:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
	:::::Seriously?! —] (]) 01:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)		:::::Seriously?! —] (]) 01:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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	; Question from ]		; Question from ]
	:'''13.''' In the past, you have had some issues with ], ], and ]. What have you done to ~~address~~ these issues? 13:44, 30 July 2007 (UTC)		:'''13.''' In the past, you have had some issues with ], ], and ]. What have you done to adress these issues? 13:44, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
	::'''A:''' Um, no, I don't believe that I've had any trouble with any of those. In fact, it actually makes me smile to see anyone accusing me of making personal attacks, because if anything I think that I am ''over'' civil, not the other way around. ;) In fact, at least one of my opposers commented that I'm "too soft," heh. Anyway, if you do have diffs of anything that you have concerns about, please feel free to bring them forward. --]]] 17:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)		::'''A:''' Um, no, I don't believe that I've had any trouble with any of those. In fact, it actually makes me smile to see anyone accusing me of making personal attacks, because if anything I think that I am ''over'' civil, not the other way around. ;) In fact, at least one of my opposers commented that I'm "too soft," heh. Anyway, if you do have diffs of anything that you have concerns about, please feel free to bring them forward. --]]] 17:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
	; Question from ]		; Question from ]