Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:37, 10 August 2007

China Project‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related Project This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Task Force proposal

I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there who'd be willing to help set up a Task Force on Chinese popular music (a.k.a. C-pop), which would encompass the three main areas of pop music (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong). - Pandacomics 06:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you see any editors that consistently edit Chinese pop music-related articles? You might want to message any editors like that directly, some of them may not be paying attention to this WikiProject. Editing Chinese pop music articles can be a hassle - there are basically no reliable sources on the musicians in my opinion. Everything out there are blogs, poorly-maintained fansites, and online gossip magazines. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 07:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

No reliable sources, eh? Well tell that to Jay Chou, who is now featured. There are actual news articles, such as ones in the Taipei Times, China Radio International (English), Sing Tao News, etc. etc. etc. But your # of users concern is fully valid, and yes, it is an incredible hassle, especially if you're doing it on your own. - Pandacomics 08:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright I'm just going by what kind of stuff I find when I do Google searches for Chinese pop stars. Some odd articles from online news sites, yes, but mostly blogs and fansites and forums. I admit I don't read the entertainment sections of Chinese news. But now that you brought up Jay Chou being featured, I would actually love to bring Leslie Cheung, Anita Mui, and Roman Tam up to featured status. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:10, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, I suggest you go directly to the Chinese pop music articles to see if you notice any editors that have been editing across different articles within the Chinese music industry. Lots of people always sign their names as a participant on a WikiProject or TaskForce, but the only ones who actually actively participate are those who had always been editing those topics to begin with, before the WikiProject or TaskForce was started up. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

So do I basically run around to those editors and see who'd want to start up a task force? - Pandacomics 18:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

It's more fruitful than leaving a message here in my opinion. Look at the majority of the discussions here, there's almost never any discussion about Chinese pop music. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 18:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Missing Chinese history topics

I have a list is missing topics related to Chinese history, though many of them are about military history. Due to sources, at least some of the titles are based on the previous transliteration, so I don't know how many of them could be only worth of redirect. Feel free to check - Skysmith 08:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Technology of the Song Dynasty

After passing Good Article status, I have put this article up as a Featured Article Candidate. Please review it and provide input/comments/objections/support at this page. Thank You.--PericlesofAthens 17:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

On another note, I have recently put the article Tang Dynasty up for peer review.--PericlesofAthens 17:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Help needed! barnstar offered...

WP:3K has been in a long slow grind to bring the Battle of Red Cliffs up to the quality where it can be submitted to WP:FAC with at least a decent chance of approval for Featured Article status. To that end, we are currently working on a "Location of Red Cliffs" section (see the article).

The Chinese Misplaced Pages has what appear to be some excellent info on the topic in a subsection about the battlefield's location. Unfortunately, and no offense to its various authors, it is very inadequately sourced. If we copied it word-for-word and sent it to FAC, every copied word would be challenged (and very rightly so!).

If anyone can track down full and complete references to all the info in that section, I will gladly give them a barnstar, or at least my undying gratitude. Everything in the section is uncited, but questions include:

• Where/when exactly did Wang Li and Zhu Dongrun say that Jiayu was their preferred location? Give title, book publisher & year, or journal name & volume/issue, with exact pages, etc....
• Any proof of these archaeological finds in Puqi in the 1970s? Give full references.
• What is this " 年湖北大学人文学院出版了《古战场蒲圻赤壁论文集》赞同上述观点 by Hubei University College of Humanities published in 1991.. full references, including page numbers, please!)
• ... and everything else.

--Ling.Nut 16:41, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Zen Merger

It was proposed in September 2006 that Zen Teacher/Zen Master be merged into Zen, but no discussion was made of it. If you are interested, please discuss here. JohnnyMrNinja 17:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Template talk

I started a conversation for template discussion here. Please join in. We need to decide which template to use to standardize on. There are too many floating around. Benjwong 19:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Conversation moved to here.

Battle of Gaixia

I have this page on my watchlist, and the article's recent expansion from a stub looks very suspicious. The article now looks like a blend of half-truths and hearsays, as some of the details I can't find in Shiji or Zizhi Tongjian. I have approached the editor responsible for it, User:CCHIPSS, for sources, but he didn't respond. So, seeing that I'm not so familiar with the subject, can someone take a look at the article to see if anything needs to be done? Thanks. _dk 06:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Rfc

See Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Jiejunkong. (Wikimachine 03:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC))

17th century Sino-Japanese Trade

Hiya. I've run into a serious stumbling block in my research, and I am hoping that you fellows could help.

We know that under the hai jin (海禁) policy, unofficial trade outside of the tribute system was (largely) banned as of 1557, if not earlier. In 1567, the ban was lifted for Southeast Asia - Chinese could now travel to, and trade in, Southeast Asian ports, but were still banned by the Ming government from traveling to Japan, or trading with Japanese in Japanese or Chinese ports.

Yet, as of the early 17th century (if not present as well in the late 16th century), there was a booming trade with Chinese merchants at Nagasaki; these merchants were not officially licensed nor officially representing the Ming court in any way, but as far as I am aware, they were not criminals, acting in outright violation of a ban.

So, what changed? and when? Is there a specific date or year at which the Ming court reversed their decision and decided to allow Chinese to travel to Japan? Thank you very much for your help. LordAmeth 12:27, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Pan Lei

This article is up for deletion, because it's a tiny stub with no information beyond birth and death dates and occupation. I was hoping someone from this WikiProject might be able to assist in finding out more about this person. Chubbles 23:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

more help with Red Cliffs (though no one replied to the earlier thread...)

Hey,

My poor thread a little higher on this page is sad & lonely... left all unanswered... so I'll post a new one to keep it company... Can anyone get electronic versions of any Chinese-language articles about the location of the Battle of Red Cliffs? Below are some that de Crespigny cites, but actually, anything would help:

• Jiang Yongxing, , Lishi jiaoxue, Tianjin 1980.12, 50.
• Shi Ding, , Shixue yuekan, Zhengzhou, 134 (1981), 8-17.
• Shi Ding, , Shehui kexue zhanxian, Changchun 13 (1981), 190-199.
• Wu Yingshou and Zhang Xiugui, , Fudan xuebao (shehui kexue) zengkan, Shanghai August 1980, 131-135
• Wu Yongzhang and Shu Zhimei, , Jiang-Han luntan, Wuhan, 1979.1, 84-87.
• Yang Guanyi and Ding Fang, , Bulletin of the Chinese Historical Museum, Beijing 1979.1, 40-42
• Zhang Zhizhe, , Xuelin manlu, Beijing, 1 (1980), 79-83.

• Thanks Ling.Nut 15:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Dunno if this would help, but (I think) these are the Chinese names of the journals you're looking at:

历史教学; website: http://www.historyteaching.net/

史学月刊; website: http://sxyk.henu.edu.cn/

社会科学战线; an index and some articles at: http://cn.qikan.com/gbqikan/mag.asp?issn=0257-0246

复旦学报(社会科学版)增刊

江汉论坛; an index and some articles at: http://jhlt.periodicals.net.cn/gyjs.asp?ID=3304643

(dunno about the last two) --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The last one is 学林漫录. Beware, though, coz I found this article which says that your last source was plagiarised off the Fudan one. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:30, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Featured article review

Flag of the Republic of China has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Hadseys 01:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Standardizing Chinese Template

I would like to see if anyone has any last opinions on standardizing Template:Chinese as the main "graphical" template for Chinese articles. If you have any last minute comments please go here. We have fixed quite a number of issues over the past week. Benjwong 21:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

move

There is an ongoing poll for moving Senkaku Islands at Talk:Senkaku Islands. Mr. Killigan 04:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

The latin phonetic method of Shanghainese proposed for deletion

Please comment at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The latin phonetic method of Shanghainese if you are interested. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 03:40, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Ask for intervention in the Korean War

I have a lengthy and fruitless dispute with some editors in this article.The core issue is about the in the infobox,someone prvide the American estimate of Chinese casualities,Which I found unecessary and innaccurate.Steps which I had tried follows,1),when I tried to point out the estimate from the enemy side is inable comparing their home roster number.People there cann't accept it.2),I found there's also the chinese estimate of american casualities,So I pose it in the info box,but it was quickly removed.So these editors cann't accept any sources they don't like.So following the NPOV policy,I am very curious about why the chinese estimate cann't be accepted,but no one can give a satisfied answer.Furthermore,when I found a more accruate chinese casualities figure link here,when I tried to replace it with the infobox one,men just revert it.3)And keep going on,when I found the failure of american sources about the amercian casualities,just looking at the Korean War Veterans Memorial which figure contradict the one in the infobox,they just tried to find excuse rather than accept the failure of american sources,the american casulities was miscaculated for 40 years without anyone notice,further more the american source about their allied was notorious invalid,some estimate ranges from 500K to 20000K,this sources cann't be seen as valid,because their internal absurdity.So I just pose the question why these invalid sources must be added in the infox?and why the chinese estimate cann't?4)Throughout the discussion,I perceived strong chaunvinist and nationalist views from some editors.Some editors claims the american sources are absolutely right,some editores votes for not pleasing the chinese and some claim Ksyrie,you have no place in english wikipedia.5)Final word,I tried to solve it in the wiki dispute precedure,but editors don't favor the mediation request,which I found strange,since we have disputed for so longtime,why not ask a mediation.And I want to ask a final arbitrition from the wiki board,which I found more neutral.They may follows more closely to the NPOV policy rather than the strong chauvinsit and nationalist experience which I perceive in the korean talk page.

I ask any of you look at the Talk:Korean War/Chinese Casualty Discussion and Talk:Korean War,and give me suggestion for whether or not,and how to make a valid arbition demand,and if possilbe,direct intervetion to the current talk page,which is full of biased statement.--Ksyrie(Talkie talkie) 04:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

New Featured Article

Just to let everyone know, Technology of the Song Dynasty has passed the grueling and brutal gauntlet of spikes, axes, chains, and bats that is the FAC procedure these days. Hah. Check it out! It looks beautiful, like the Forbidden City lit up at midnight, or a supple young Chinese bride preparing to be deflowered on her wedding night.

Lol. I'll stop with the annoying similes now. Eric :) --PericlesofAthens 01:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, and by the way, everyone needs to get off their *** and start competing with me, because so far I've passed 8 GA articles and 2 FA articles about China, and I've only been here since mid March.--PericlesofAthens 18:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, YOU forgot to put the FA star on your new FA! :) Congrats, man. I'm sorry I haven't been around to help more, I just haven't been in the Wiki-mood as much lately.--Danaman5 21:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Very impressive. Though the metaphor is rather inappropriate. I think I might take you up on that FA challenge... ;) -- 我♥中國 06:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I have one GA! YEAHHHHH!!! -___- Some of us aren't as natural as you are when it comes to writing. Pandacomics 17:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Modern Chinese music workgroup

If no one objects, then I'm going to be bold and start up the workgroup. There are three of us for now (me, Arsonal and Andrew Eng), but if anyone else wants to join, by all means, do. Pandacomics 20:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I've seen the work you've done in your Sandbox to set this up. Good job! I hope plenty of people join and stay active in the workgroup. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 20:41, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Ahhhhhh, something went wrong with the project banner. Can someone fix it? edit: Never mind. Fixed it. Pandacomics 03:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Chin Gee Hee

I recently started an article on Chin Gee Hee (陈宜禧). I can tell from a web search that there is a lot of material online about him in Chinese, if anyone feels like taking on a probably interesting project. (I do not speak or read Chinese.) Also, I believe that there is no article about him at all in the Chinese Misplaced Pages, which seems surprising. - Jmabel | Talk 07:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Rock Springs massacre

Hello everyone. The article Rock Springs massacre, while not tagged by this project probably falls within its scope. It is a current Featured article candidate, if anyone here has the time comments would be appreciated after reviewing the featured article criteria and comparing those to the article. You can see its entry and participate in the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Rock Springs massacre. This message is an attempt to jumpstart lagging discussion, talk page posts on WikiProject pages which have tagged the article went unnoticed as the three projects are less than active at this juncture. Thanks ahead of time. IvoShandor 09:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Yue Fei

I am the person who totally rewrote and expanded the Yue Fei page to its current status. I realize the page is no where near as good as it could be, but it's A LOT better than it was. The page was originally full of fiction presented as fact (not to say that the current page is totally free of that since even Yue's historical bios are steeped in myth). But since I have managed to pass Zhou Tong (archer), Yue's archery teacher, as FA-class I think more effort should be made to get this page up to standard. However, I don't feel like expanding the page myself since I have already done so much work to it. So, I hope that somebody here will take on the task.

I have in my possession a huge 621 page English language biography on Yue Fei written by Dr. Edward H. Kaplan. Here is the book's citation:

Kaplan, Edward Harold. Yueh Fei and the founding of the Southern Sung. Thesis (Ph. D.) -- University of Iowa, 1970. Ann Arbor: University Microfilms International, 1970.

I'm sure someone can track this down. The only place to find it is in univeristy libraries, but I'm sure you can get it with an inter-library loan through your local library. I know of a website that sells a made-to-order unbound reprint of the book for $41. It's a bit costly, but it's definitely worth it.(Ghostexorcist 20:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC))

Article for addition to the project

I think this article Along the River During Qingming Festival should be included in this project. I am not familiar with the banner requirements for this project, if anyone can quickly brief me on it. --Voidvector 09:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

"Today's featured article" watch

Very shortly, the current featured article will be switched over to Zhou Tong (archer), which is linked to this project. I realize that the featured article of the day is usually heavily vandalized. I must admit since I was the sole author that I would hate to see this page ruined by immature people and not be reverted to its original state (barring constructive edits).

I must leave for work soon and will not be able to monitor the page. I therefore ask that fellow members of the project watch over the page and revert any vandalism done to it. On top of that, I will not be able to reply to any questions left on the article's talk page until I get home. --Ghostexorcist 23:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Very good work,even in the chinese wikipedia,there's less qualified ariticle like this.--Ksyrie(Talkie talkie) 23:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Flag of Hong Kong FAR

Flag of Hong Kong has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:05, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I've started working on this article. But it really needs lots of referencing. Please help. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 03:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of Chinese apartheid

A newly created article, Allegations of Chinese apartheid, has been nominated for deletion. Comments are invited on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Allegations of Chinese apartheid. -- ChrisO 07:24, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Town deity (城隍) and its temple (城隍庙)

I recently stumbled upon the article Shing Wong which is classified under Hong Kong project. However, I want to point out that the concept covered by this article "town deity" or "town god" is not exclusive to Hong Kong. There are 城隍庙 in many major cities of China. In addition, there exists an article for Shanghai's 城隍庙 at City God Temple, even though the general concept is not explained in its own article. --Voidvector 00:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

As the major author of the current version of City God Temple, I'd be happy to work on a general article about city gods in general. The temple in Shanghai is fairly unique, in that it is literally the centre of the city. Did you know the Forbidden City has its own city god temple? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Kim Hambo

Has anyone seen this article yet. It claims the founder of the Jin Dynasty (which they call "Kim") was actually from the Korean Silla Kingdom. I have heard this was mentioned in the Jin Shi chronicle, but I've seen that many experienced Chinese editors greatly disagree with the assumption. The material covered in the Kim Hambo article has repeatedly been removed from the Jin Dynasty and Jurchen articles. Could somebody take a look at Kim's article and fix whatever may be wrong with it? --Ghostexorcist 07:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Everything, from hanzi (or should I say, hanja), chopsticks to Li Shimin was originally from Korea. *rolleyes* -- 我♥中國 17:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Daqing tower

Hi everyone, there's an ongoing discussion on AfD about Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Daqing Radio and Television Tower. I'm trying to defend the article because I think the tower deserves an article. Can anyone familiar with it have a look and comment? 谢谢! --Targeman 14:17, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

You might also want to leave a note with Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Architecture, as the editors there might be more familiar with what makes a building notable. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:26, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks, I'll do it! --Targeman 15:39, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Article assessments

I just want to remind everyone that if you have nothing else to do, you might consider assessing some articles for WP:CHINA. I couldn't make a dent in the backlog even when I did a bunch of assessments every day, and now thanks to the tagging work of User:Aomen, the backlog of unassessed articles has increased to over 3000. I can't blame you for not focusing on it, as it gets quite repetitive, but it would be nice to have all of these articles assessed someday.--Danaman5 06:25, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I just did some. -- 我♥中國 22:23, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Huaxia nominated for AfD

I can't believe somebody actually nominated Huaxia for deletion.

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Huaxia

Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 03:56, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Geez, I'm sorry. Not everyone grew up steeped in Chinese culture, you know. --Wang C-H 03:59, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, admittedly, the article needs a lot of work. I had worked on it a while ago, but I basically translated from two Chinese WP articles, zh:華夏 and zh:華夏族. Both are completely without sources, but the latter of the two seemed to have expanded a little bit since I last worked on the Huaxia article. The article is badly in need of sources. Unfortunately, when I try Googling for sources, they either use "華夏文化" or "華夏" in a way that they assume you know what it means already, without defining it. Googling for "華夏" is almost useless, because the term has been used to name a lot of modern-day things like companies and schools. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 06:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Have you tried using Google Scholar? That usually helps weed out the garbage a bit. I don't know if you have access to JSTOR, but I'm going to try using that to find us some reliable sources too.--Danaman5 15:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

No access to JSTOR, and didn't know there was such a thing called Google Scholar. But thanks for informing me about it. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:03, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Year format for the History of China template

There is an existing dispute on whether WP should use the BC/AD format or the BCE/CE format to represent years. The dispute may exist on other Talk pages as well, aside from the four that I found. Unfortunately, the dispute has spread to Template:History of China, with a duplicate of the template being created - Template:History of China - BC - the duplicate is a copy-and-paste of the original, with the exception that all the BCE/CE were replaced with BC/AD. I've nominated the duplicate for deletion as WP is not a battle ground and duplicates of navigational templates can create fork problems. I personally don't care which date system we use, but we shouldn't be creating POV duplicates and then having them mass inserted as minor edits, especially in the middle of an ongoing dispute about the very subject matter that resulted in the POV duplicate. Furthermore, we might be seeing the beginning of a revert war at the original template as well. So please discuss this matter and come to an agreement as to which date system we should use. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:13, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

First of all, there was no "battleground" with the other template. If anything it was a way to avoid a fight over the original template, so what with articles that used BC/AD they would not look out-of-place with the template.

However, from a personal point I think the template in question should use BC/AD. After all a majority of the Chinese history pages use that format, including the main History of China page. John Smith's 21:22, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I too have felt the bite of the CE/AD edit war. My article Zhou Tong (archer) was repeatedly vandalized by an anonymous editor that kept on switching I.P. addresses as he was blocked. Just see the talk page for the very first I.P. he used. Even though they both mean the same thing, I feel CE is more scholarly (if rendered as "Common Era" and not "Christian Era") since the latin words for AD stand for "In the year of our lord". It has less religious connotation. If your refer to the Common Era article, it mentions how many scholarly and even religious institutions are switching over to the BCE/CE system. --Ghostexorcist 21:30, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The article isn't that impressive - it only really mentions a number of American institutions. Hardly a global consensus. John Smith's 21:44, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Please provide a reason for why you think the templates should use the BC/AD system (besides that some other Chinese articles use it). --Ghostexorcist 21:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I already have, if rather briefly. The main history pages use BC/AD. It looks rather ridiculous to have a template using the opposite style used by the article itself. Given the BCE/CE terms were added fairly recently and the history articles (bar I think one) have used BC/AD right from the start, I think the template should conform to the majority style in the articles it is used in. John Smith's 21:50, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Well the project ultimately has the final say so in the matter. Consensus is the key. Right now it's two for CE and one for AD. But I'm sure fellow members will join in the conversation. If the number of people wanting AD far out weighs CE, then I'm sure it needs to be changed. --Ghostexorcist 22:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Consensus is indeed the key. By the way currently it's just us two that have expressed a preference - Hong said he didn't mind either way. John Smith's 22:20, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I support the generalization of the BCE/CE system for China-related articles, as they have essentially no connection with Christianity. BCE/CE is the more scholarly alternative for such articles. PHG 22:52, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I support BCE/CE because they better represent the modern academic standard, especially in relation to China which has the most tenuous connection with Christianity and the "Judaeo-Christian tradition". What's more, the official method of year reckoning used in China is BCE/CE - 公元前/公元, not BC/AD. That said, I don't think using BC/AD is a problem because it is, afterall, more commonly used in English.

On the other hand, I don't believe in mass converting from one system to the other. The duplicate template should be removed from articles where it has been deliberately introduced as part of a mass-conversion campaign. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

As a general principle, I support using CE/BCE on all China-related articles and non-article pages, because BC/AD is based on Christianity, which is not historically a part of Chinese culture. Articles that use BC/AD can keep that system, to avoid bothersome mass conversion, but there is no reason to mess around with a perfectly good template or create a fork of it. The argument that it would be "aesthetically displeasing" to use a different system on the template in an article that uses BC/AD is weak, in my opinion. We underestimate our readers if we think that they are going to lose sleep over such a minor matter.--Danaman5 01:20, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I support the BCE/CE system because BCE/CE is used in Chinese history study instead of BC/AD

"The term "CE" is preferred by academics in some fields (e.g., by the American Anthropological Association).The Chinese use the term "Common Era" ("公元).

"On the mainland, era names were abolished with the adoption of the Common Era at the founding of the People's Republic in 1949."

"The Republic of China retains the era system, and uses the name "Republic" (民國) for its official dating. The 1st year of the "Republic Era" was 1912. Therefore, 2006 is "the 95th year of the Republic Era" (民國95年)."

As you can see, in serious study of Chinese history in modern times, BC/AD is never officially used. Plus, as others have stated, BC/AD system has religious connotations. Count de Chagny 15:20, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Support BCE/CE. I think consensus is pretty well established. And Hong is a she. --Ideogram 15:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

• Ha? No I'm not. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:38, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

My mistake. --Ideogram 15:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Support era name system

• ie 年號 when available
• use name of emperor/king/supreme ruler/ruling entity when 年號 not available, followed by number of years since said individual/group assumed power
• when identity of supreme ruler is in dispute, choose 年號/name based on area of control of said supreme ruler, eg. this year is 阿扁七年 on Taiwan and 錦濤五年 on the mainland.

-- 我♥中國 07:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

unicode rendering of chinese characters

Is (密意)(密語)(一切深密義) a correct unicode rendering of the characters shown here? Thanks! Calliopejen1 06:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

一切法深密義. You missed 法. -- 我♥中國 07:29, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

New question over the History of China template

Per the above discussion, it is clear that a large majority of users want to keep the default BCE/CE format for the template. However, User:Mom2jandk has said here that she would be happy to add a perameter to the template so that it can adapt to whether an article in question uses BC/AD.

Is this ok, or do you want the template to use BCE/CE even on an article that uses BC/AD? Personally I think an adaptable template would be best. John Smith's 15:37, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

• Project-Class China-related pages
• NA-importance China-related pages
• Project-Class China-related articles of NA-importance
• WikiProject China articles