| Revision as of 21:58, 14 September 2007 editJossi (talk | contribs)72,880 edits →See also: ++← Previous edit | Revision as of 21:59, 14 September 2007 edit undoAbecedare (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators33,231 edits partial revert. these quotes are clearly relevant and are from a very reliable source. Please discuss on talk page if you disagreeNext edit → | ||
| Line 11: | Line 11: | ||
| But later Kanzius admitted that the apparatus "in this very early stage of development" needed more energy to produce the gas, than can be obtained by burning the gas<ref name="saltwater1" />. | But later Kanzius admitted that the apparatus "in this very early stage of development" needed more energy to produce the gas, than can be obtained by burning the gas<ref name="saltwater1" />. | ||
| ], a consulting editor at ] and author of ''"H2O: A Biography of Water"'' debunked the concept of water being burned as a fuel<ref>{{cite web|last= Ball|first=Philip|authorlink = Philip Ball|title=Burning water and other myths|url= http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070910/full/070910-13.html|work= ] News|date= ], ]|accessdate= 2007-09-14}}< |
], a consulting editor at ] and author of ''"H2O: A Biography of Water"'' debunked the concept of water being burned as a fuel: | ||
| <blockquote> | |||
| Here, however (for what it is worth) is the definitive verdict of thermodynamics: water is not a fuel. It never has been one, and it never will be one. Water does not burn. Water is already burnt — it is spent fuel. It is exhaust.<ref name = Nature>{{cite web|last= Ball|first=Philip|authorlink = Philip Ball|title=Burning water and other myths|url= http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070910/full/070910-13.html|work= ] News|date= ], ]|accessdate= 2007-09-14}}</ref> | |||
| </blockquote> | |||
| and | |||
| <blockquote> | |||
| Can you get more energy out than you put in?<br> | |||
| I can answer that right now: no. You start with water, you break it apart into its constituent elements (hydrogen and oxygen), and then you recombine them by burning. Yes you can do that. Hydrogen, indeed, is the promised fuel of the new clean energy economy. But making hydrogen from water takes more energy than you can ever recover from burning it. Extracting net energy from this total cycle is impossible, if you believe in the first and second laws of thermodynamics. Otherwise, you have the basis of a perpetual-motion machine.<ref name = Nature/> | |||
| </blockquote> | |||
| He was also critical of the media coverage accompanying Kanzius' claims, saying "But no one does. No one raises any questions at all. The reports offer a testament to the awesome lack of enquiry and critical thought that makes news media everywhere quite terrifyingly defenceless against bogus science."<ref name = Nature/> | |||
| == See also == | == See also == | ||
| Line 17: | Line 26: | ||
| *] | *] | ||
| *] | *] | ||
| *] | |||
| == References == | == References == | ||
Revision as of 21:59, 14 September 2007
John Kanzius, a radio and TV engineer and one-time station owner from Erie, Pennsylvania, is the inventor of a radio device that he hopes can offer a treatment for cancer. Although he is not a doctor, or have a college degree, he was motivated in his research by his experience undergoing chemotherapy for treatment of leukemia. Later in 2007, he announced that the same radio frequency generator can also be used to decompose salt water into oxygen and hydrogen gas. According to Kanzius, the resulting gas burns. His claims have not been subject to scientific peer review.
Kanzius has applied for four patents, including a patent for an Enhanced Systems and Methods for RF-Induced Hyperthermia, which describes potential medical uses of radio waves for diseases such as cancer. As of 2007, there are no peer-reviewed demonstrations that this machine does anything.
Kanzius' demonstration of decomposition of water by radio-waves has been successfully reproduced by Rustum Roy, a materials scientist at Pennsylvania State University. According to Roy, "The salt water isn't burning per se, despite appearances. The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies." When hydrogen burns, it produces water, thus making this a zero energy producing event.
The details of the process are still unreleased while Kanzius applies for a patent. He states that the discovery was made accidentally while he was researching the use of radio waves for the treatment of cancer.
According to Sterling D. Allan, on June 6, 2007, Kanzius claimed overunity results (an energy efficiency over 1) after changes to the apparatus, drawing critique from skeptics. But later Kanzius admitted that the apparatus "in this very early stage of development" needed more energy to produce the gas, than can be obtained by burning the gas.
Philip Ball, a consulting editor at Nature and author of "H2O: A Biography of Water" debunked the concept of water being burned as a fuel:
Here, however (for what it is worth) is the definitive verdict of thermodynamics: water is not a fuel. It never has been one, and it never will be one. Water does not burn. Water is already burnt — it is spent fuel. It is exhaust.
and
Can you get more energy out than you put in?
I can answer that right now: no. You start with water, you break it apart into its constituent elements (hydrogen and oxygen), and then you recombine them by burning. Yes you can do that. Hydrogen, indeed, is the promised fuel of the new clean energy economy. But making hydrogen from water takes more energy than you can ever recover from burning it. Extracting net energy from this total cycle is impossible, if you believe in the first and second laws of thermodynamics. Otherwise, you have the basis of a perpetual-motion machine.
He was also critical of the media coverage accompanying Kanzius' claims, saying "But no one does. No one raises any questions at all. The reports offer a testament to the awesome lack of enquiry and critical thought that makes news media everywhere quite terrifyingly defenceless against bogus science."
See also
References
- "Cancer Patient Invents Treatment Machine". CBS13. Aug 27, 2007. Retrieved 2007-09-10.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - O'Mara, Michael (2007-09-12). "Salt water fuel gets major university review". WKYC. Retrieved 2007-09-14.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - ^ O'Mara, Michael (Sep 12). Burning Water. Erie, P.A.: WKYC. Retrieved 2007-09-14.
{{cite AV media}}: Check date values in:|date=and|year=/|date=mismatch (help) - WO application 2005110544 SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR RF-INDUCED HYPERTHERMIA
- US application 2006190063 Enhanced systems and methods for RF-induced hyperthermia
- EP application 1758648 ENHANCED SYSTEMS AND METHODS FOR RF-INDUCED HYPERTHERMIA
- WO application 2007027620 ENHANCED SYSTEMS AND METHODS FOR RF-INDUCED HYPERTHERMIA II
- Templeton, David (2007-09-09). "Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so". Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Retrieved 2007-09-10.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - ^ Ogden, Shannon (2007-07-05). "Salt Water Fuel". First Coast News. Retrieved 2007-07-26.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - O'Mara, Michael (2007-05-22). "Water into fuel?". WKYC. Retrieved 2007-07-05.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - ^ Ball, Philip (September 14, 2007). "Burning water and other myths". Nature News. Retrieved 2007-09-14.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help)
External links
- WJET 24 - Erie news story
- A Demonstration
- WSEE 35 - Erie news story
- Fla. Man Invents Machine To Turn Water Into Fire wpbf-TV
