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::::::::I'm not trivializing it at all (and I'm not making ''personal attacks'' either). '''But Misplaced Pages is not your blog.''' Your comments both in the article and here in this discussion have been ''highly emotional'' and not objective. Such comments may be acceptable in discussion, but not in an article. ] 15:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::::I'm not trivializing it at all (and I'm not making ''personal attacks'' either). '''But Misplaced Pages is not your blog.''' Your comments both in the article and here in this discussion have been ''highly emotional'' and not objective. Such comments may be acceptable in discussion, but not in an article. ] 15:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::You ARE trivializing it, whether you realize it or not. And the points I have raised--as "emotional" as they may be--are now at least represented in the article. Do I have a bit of a personal stake in this? Yes. Carter was a dear friend (and bandmate) of a guy I know, Danny Bayliss. Does that meant that the points I raised were invalid, or deserving of the trivialization you subjected them to? (Remember the "light bulb" comment?) Certainly not.] 23:21, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
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Since there have been no comments about this, I'm going to delete it. Please note that there is no reference to this "issue" in the referenced CNN story. WiccaWeb17:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
If CNN doesn't put it in their story, it must not be true, right?
There has been no established medical source such as the coroner or other doctor related to the case to make this connection. It's nothing more than speculation by people without medical credentials. Such speculation not based on any fact has no place here. Certainly the way it was worded did not make it clear it was pure speculation not based on any factual evidence. Indeed there is no connection in medical literature between Chantix and this type of behavior. What is the purpose of adding pure speculation not based on any kind of medical references?
Why are you against including the information reported by reliable sources? His friends and family have simply made the FACT that he had NEVER acted this way prior to taking Chantix a matter of public record. Reliable sources reported on this fact. Whether or not YOU think it belongs in this article doesn't matter even a little bit.K. Scott Bailey10:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Because they are not reliable medical sources, and hold as much weight as random wild speculation. It's misleading to suggest otherwise. WiccaWeb00:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Now you're just being ludicrous. The standard of WP:RS does NOT require that a medical journal write an article about Albrecht's particular case in order to be "reliable." Newspaper articles in which those who knew him offer their take on what may have caused a person they knew well--and knew to NOT be violent in any way--to behave in such an erratic manner are CERTAINLY considered "reliable sources", no matter what you happen to think.K. Scott Bailey17:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I have rephrased K. Scott Bailey's recently added text because it focused purely on assertions made by friends and family, rather than the larger, more objective view presented by the cited source. I've tried to distill the information from that news article into a few lines that indicate the overall lack of certainty in this situation, and that it is an ongoing investigation. ~ Jeff Q(talk)13:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I've also done similar work to Carter Albrecht, where there are three sources (including the one cited here) for the info on Albrecht's death. I have to agree with WiccaWeb that this is probably too much to get into in in the New Bohemians article, but I'm sure we'll ultimately get a solid source or two for a terse comment here, once the investigation has been completed in a few weeks. ~ Jeff Q(talk)13:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
First of all, note the top part of this section of discussion:
Since there have been no comments about this, I'm going to delete it.
So in fact I brought up the subject in discussion, which you apparently didn't see or chose to ignore. When there where no objections, I deleted the text.
Your original text implied a non-existent connection for which there is no evidence anywhere, and suggested by people with no medical background. You might have well as said that the possibility exists between his mental state and the fact that there was an incandescent light bulb in the room. WiccaWeb23:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Now you're just being a jackass. Comparing the educated (they knew him VERY well) speculation of Carter's friends and family to someone making a claim that he was acting the way he was because "there was an incandescent light bulb in the room" is completely beyond the pale of decency. What the hell do you expect to get as a source? Some kind of frickin' medical study?!? People who knew him said the only thing in his life that was different--and, thus, that could have potentially caused such abnormal, erratic behavior--was his Chantix prescription. Their thoughts were reported in reputable sources. This satisfies Misplaced Pages's standards. Deal with it.K. Scott Bailey23:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Mr. Bailey, all I'm saying is that your original text implied strong evidence of a connection without making it clear that it was speculation from non-medical professionals. Jeff Q did a great job of including the same speculation put in the correct context. You're taking this way to personal, which indeed was the way your original text was written. And, interestingly, you have no complaints that the article completely ignores mentioning police reports that state Mr. Albrect had slammed a drinking glass on a table, cutting his hand and then struck his girlfriend in the face several times with his fist, knocking her to the floor. Not relevant, perhaps? Of course. WiccaWeb06:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Not relevant, except in the context that he had never--not once--acted this way prior to taking Chantix. If that context were added, then insertion of those facts would be fine. Carter was a kind and gentle person, not a violent man at all. The event is tragic in the extreme, and your trivialization of it is disgusting.K. Scott Bailey03:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not trivializing it at all (and I'm not making personal attacks either). But Misplaced Pages is not your blog. Your comments both in the article and here in this discussion have been highly emotional and not objective. Such comments may be acceptable in discussion, but not in an article. WiccaWeb15:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
You ARE trivializing it, whether you realize it or not. And the points I have raised--as "emotional" as they may be--are now at least represented in the article. Do I have a bit of a personal stake in this? Yes. Carter was a dear friend (and bandmate) of a guy I know, Danny Bayliss. Does that meant that the points I raised were invalid, or deserving of the trivialization you subjected them to? (Remember the "light bulb" comment?) Certainly not.K. Scott Bailey23:21, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
