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Economics

Britannica article talks about six Nobel Prizes: "any of the prizes (five in number until 1969, when a sixth was added)..." Encarta also talks about six prizes when it defines them as "annual monetary awards granted to individuals or institutions for outstanding contributions in the fields of physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature, international peace, and economic sciences." Anon edit to which I referred to was this. -- Vision Thing -- 12:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

If you read further down the page, the Encyclopedia Britannica article states:

"These prizes as established by his will are: the Nobel Prize for Physics (Nobelpriset i Fysik); the Nobel Prize for Chemistry (Nobelpriset i Kemi); the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine (Nobelpriset i Fysiologi eller Medicin); the Nobel Prize for Literature (Nobelpriset i Litteratur); and the Nobel Prize for Peace (Nobels Fredspris). The first distribution of the prizes took place on December 10, 1901, the fifth anniversary of Nobel's death. An additional award, the Prize for Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel (Priset i Ekonomisk Vetenskap till Alfred Nobels Minne), was established in 1968 by the Bank of Sweden and was first awarded in 1969."

which is a direct contradiction of the first sentence that you referred to. We also all know that the econ prize is not a Nobel prize, as stated by the Nobel Foundation, which is obviously the more reliable source. So please stop reverting. –panda 14:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how the passage you have quoted contradicts the first sentence. Nobel Foundation lists prize in economics as one of the Nobel Prizes. -- Vision Thing -- 21:36, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, The Nobel Foundation does not call it a Nobel Prize anywhere on their site. They only list it as the "Prize in Economics" or "Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel". If you find a reference where they call it a Nobel Prize, please post it. BTW, this is what the entire controversy is about. The text that you removed also included a more reliable source (The Nobel Foundation) than the Encyclopedia Britannica article. So what exactly was the reason for your reverting it? –panda 22:35, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

They have put it in the Nobel Prizes category. Also, article about Nobel Prizes in UK's Encarta , which is reviewed by Nobel Foundation, defines Nobel Prizes as "awards granted annually to people or institutions for outstanding contributions during the previous year in the fields of physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature, international peace, and economic sciences." -- Vision Thing -- 23:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Simply putting something into the Noble Prize category doesn't make it a Nobel Prize. If you look at the names for each prize, you'll see that the other's do include the word "Nobel" while the econ prize does not. The UK Encarta article may have been reviewed by the Nobel Foundation, but that doesn't mean they wrote it or even endorsed it. I'll remind you that you removed a reference to the Nobel Foundation and replaced it with a reference to Encyclopedia Britannica Encarta. Are you trying to say that other sites are more authoritative than the Nobel Foundation's site about this matter? –panda 00:29, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Nobel Foundation site puts prize for economics in Nobel Prize category. For me that is enough to consider it a Nobel Prize. However, since they don't simply say whether this is or isn't a Nobel Prize we need to check other sources. And the Encarta article, which Nobel Foundation reviewed, says it is a Nobel Prize. So matter is clear. -- Vision Thing -- 11:23, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Allow me to explain the fault in your reasoning. I have reviewed your changes to this article. You may now state in the article reviewed by panda. However, I do not endorse your changes, in fact I oppose them. You, OTOH, are not required to change them. This still makes the article reviewed by panda even though I do not endorse the text. –panda 11:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

That assumes bad faith in Encarta, since it is implying that they have put Nobel Foundation name under the article with which Nobel Foundation doesn't agree with. -- Vision Thing -- 12:14, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'm assuming that the Nobel Foundation doesn't have time to check every single web site that has text about the Nobel Prize. Also, I don't know if you've noticed or not but encarta.msn.edu does not include the text "Reviewed by: Nobel Foundation", which is copyrighted by the exact same Microsoft Corporation and probably updated more frequently as there is more text in the encarta.msn.edu version. –panda 12:33, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Here is a quote from the Nobel Foundation:

Every year since 1901 the Nobel Prize has been awarded for achievements in physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature and for peace. The Nobel Prize is an international award administered by the Nobel Foundation in Stockholm, Sweden. In 1968, Sveriges Riksbank established The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel, founder of the Nobel Prize. Each prize consists of a medal, personal diploma, and a cash award.

The definition of a Nobel Prize is one of the awards administered by the Nobel Foundation. The econ prize is not administered by the Nobel Foundation. Thus, it is not a Nobel Prize. I believe the Nobel Foundation would be the most reliable reference about this. BTW, the 2nd reference is the one you removed from the article when you reverted my edit. –panda 22:55, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Another Swedish website, written by the Swedish government, which is more reliable than MSN/Encarta:

The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel: Sveriges Riksbank (The Central Bank of Sweden) instituted a prize in economic sciences in memory of Alfred Nobel at its 300th anniversary in 1968. The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences selects a prize winner and the Nobel Foundation has accepted that this prize is awarded in the same manner as a Nobel Prize. The prize amount is also equal to the other Nobel Prizes. 58 men have received the prize so far.

Also, links from The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences (the organization that selects and awards the prize): , , and . Notice that they do not call it a Nobel Prize and are careful to keep it separated from the Nobel Prizes.

–panda 23:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

And another reference from Sveriges Riksbank (the Bank of Sweden) to show that the money for the econ prize comes from Sveriges Riksbank, not the Nobel Foundation:

The prize amount is the same as for the Nobel Prizes, 10 million, and is paid by the Riksbank.

Thus the Nobel Foundation does not administer the econ prize.

If there's no objections, I'll be replacing the text you removed. I'll give you some time to reply. –panda 23:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Swedish government website says: Nobel Foundation has accepted that this prize is awarded in the same manner as a Nobel Prize. The prize amount is also equal to the other Nobel Prizes. That means that they consider prize in economics a Nobel Prize (you accepted that meaning of other here).

As for other links, you can't use them as a source for claim that prize in economics is not a Nobel Prize, because they don't say that. You are relaying on your personal interpretation, and that is not acceptable, especially because we have a reliable source which straightforwardly says that prize in economics is a Nobel Prize. -- Vision Thing -- 16:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Read what you just posted: "in the same manner as a Nobel Prize." If somebody say, "Vision_Thing sings mellifluously, just as the angels do", this clearly implies that Vision_Thing is not among the angels. If the Swedes thought it was a Nobel Prize, they wouldn't say "same... as a Nobel Prize". Encarta is a Microsoft product, and as susceptible to bugs as any other. You seem intent upon denying all the most reliable cites, clinging stubbornly to common misperceptions. Please re-read this warning about "owning" articles. --Orange Mike 17:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

There are no reliable sources which say this is not a Nobel Prize. We just have reliable sources which say that it is (btw, Encarta article was reviewed by Nobel Foundation, so if it did contain some "bugs" they have corrected them). -- Vision Thing -- 17:53, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

According to the Nobel Foundation's FAQ:

"The prizes, as designated in the Will of Alfred Nobel, are in physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature and peace. Only once during these years has a prize been added – a Memorial Prize – the Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel, donated by the Bank of Sweden to celebrate its tercentenary in 1968. The Board of Directors later decided to keep the original five prizes intact and not to permit new additions."

Still not convinced? –panda 20:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Um ... you're nitpicking on wording -- they're Swedish, not perfect English speakers. Claiming that the references I listed can't be used means you're blatantly ignoring the definition of a Nobel Prize from more reliable sources. Anyway, I've asked a few others to come and look at this issue so maybe we can get some consensus about this. –panda 17:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

According to this paper, all six prizes are administered by the Nobel Foundation. -- Vision Thing -- 18:14, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'm here at the invitation of panda. As far as I'm concerned, the question of whether the Prize in Economics is a Nobel Prize passes the duck test. It is awarded at the same time as the other prizes, the same basic process is used to determine the winners, popular press often refer to the winners as Nobel Prize winners, the monetary amount of the prize is the same. That the Nobel foundation and others might want to make a distinction is perhaps understandable, but that horse has left the barn long ago. In popular culture, the Prize in Economics is equivalent in every meaningful sense to the other Nobel Prizes. older ≠ wiser 18:21, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Also here at panda's invitation. While I can frequently be found arguing (e.g., at Talk:Nobel Prize in Economics) that we must follow ordinary English usage in naming our articles, the same emphatically does not apply to the content of our articles. There we should strive to accurately reflect the true state of affairs. On that note, perhaps this quotation from the Swedish Misplaced Pages page on the Nobel Prize may be of interest:

Samtidigt som prisen enligt Nobels testamente delas ut, utdelas också Sveriges Riksbanks pris i ekonomisk vetenskap till Alfred Nobels minne, som instiftades 1969 i samband med Riksbankens 300-årsjubileum. 1969 beslutade man också att det inte skulle få vara ytterligare ämnen vid framtida utdelningar. Det ekonomiska priset förvaltas av Nobelstiftelsen, pristagare utses av Vetenskapsakademien och priset överlämnas av Konungen vid samma tillfälle som de fyra ("svenska") andra. Det ekonomiska priset har därför ofta kallats för ett Nobelpris, ibland "det alternativa Nobelpriset". Nobels släktingar har inte velat acceptera det ekonomiska priset som ett nobelpris.

Translation:

At the same time the prizes specified in Nobel's will are given, the Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Science in memory of Alfred Nobel is given. This prize was instituted in 1969 in connection with the 300th anniversary of the Bank of Sweden. In 1969 it was also decided that no additional prizes would be awarded in the future. The prize in economics is managed by the Nobel Foundation; the winners are chosen by the Swedish Academy of Science and the prize is given by the King of Sweden on the same occasion as the other four (Swedish) prizes. For these reasons, the prize in economics has often been referred to as a Nobel Prize, and sometimes as "the alternative Nobel Prize." The Nobel family has been unwilling to accept the prize in economics as a Nobel Prize.

I also find rather persuasive that the Nobel Foundation does, indeed, refer to the other five prizes as, e.g., "Nobel Prize in Physics," but to the economics prize simply as the "Prize in Economics" (e.g., here; see the row of prize names toward the top). Also, this FAQ page rather ostentatiously avoids referring to the economics prize as a "Nobel Prize," calling it a "Memorial Prize," and says that "The Board of Directors later decided to keep the original five prizes intact and not to permit new additions" (emphasis mine).

My conclusion is that it ain't a real Nobel Prize, based on the Nobel Foundation's Web site. --Tkynerd 23:36, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages does not allow original research. If something is not clearly stated, we can't derive our own conclusions, epecially when there are reliable sources which say the opposite. -- Vision Thing -- 17:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Trying to make sense out of a source is not WP:OR, and neither is trying to make sense out of conflicting sources. If it were, we'd never be able to use any outside sources at all without violating copyright by reproducing them outright. --Tkynerd 20:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm surprised to hear, Tkynerd, that you are basing your decision on "the Nobel Foundation's Web site," because earlier you had quite different grounds: "it annoys me that this prize is known as a Nobel Prize when it isn't one; to me it's just a cheap-jack right-wing attempt to provide cachet for a prize in the pseudoscience of economics. (I mean, Milton Friedman? Please.)" When some editors on one side of a debate have an ill-concealed political agenda, it makes it a bit hard to assume good faith.--Anthon.Eff 16:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm surprised to hear, Anthon.Eff, that you are basing your "criticism" on what I wrote elsewhere rather than dealing with the arguments I've presented here. When an editor is unable or unwilling to distinguish between an explicitly stated POV and arguments that do not rely on that POV, it makes it a bit hard to assume good faith. --Tkynerd 20:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

• Compromise solution. What do you think about following text:

The Nobel Prizes (Swedish: Nobelpriset), as designated in the Alfred Nobel's will in 1895, are awarded for physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature and peace. Prize in economics was instituted by Sweden's central bank in 1968. The first five prizes were first awarded in 1901, while the first prize in economics was awarded in 1969. All six prizes are administered by the Nobel Foundation and are widely regarded as the supreme commendations in their subject areas. -- Vision Thing -- 17:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I believe the plural of Nobelpriset is Nobelpriserna. Check with panda to be sure, since he is apparently an expert in Swedish orthography and grammar. --Anthon.Eff 19:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I like this compromise text as well. My only change would be that the second sentence should begin with "A prize in economics in memory of Nobel..." rather than just "Prize in economics..." (Whether or not that alternative wording is accepted, the sentence needs to begin with an article.) Also, the first sentence should read "...as designated in Alfred Nobel's will..." rather than "...as designated in the Alfred Nobel's will..." And yes, Nobelpriserna is the correct definite plural form in Swedish. --Tkynerd 20:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

• I would recommend reorganizing the text into chronological order as well as including a few more details. I removed that the Nobel Foundation administrates all 6 prizes because it's not 100% true for the econ prize -- there is joint administration for the econ prize. So, this is my suggestion, incorporating the general ideas from above:

"The Nobel Prizes (Swedish: Nobelpriserna), as designated by the Swedish scientist Alfred Nobel through his will in 1895, are awarded for Physics, Chemistry, Literature, Peace, and Physiology or Medicine. They were first awarded in 1901. A prize in economics, The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel, was instituted by Sveriges Riksbank (Bank of Sweden) in 1968 and first awarded in 1969. All six prizes are widely regarded as the supreme commendations in their subject areas. With the exception of the peace prize, which is handed out in Oslo, Norway, they are all handed out by the King of Sweden in Stockholm at an annual ceremony on December 10, the anniversary of Nobel's death." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Panda (talk • contribs) 00:18, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

• I know you feel you have repeated yourself ad nauseam, panda, but to save the rest of us from trying to piece together from your previous comments what exactly you mean, would you mind detailing the ways in which the prize is jointly administered? Thanks. --Anthon.Eff 11:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

• The references are cited above. If you still have questions after reading them, please let me know. (If everyone did their homework first, then no one would have to be repetitive.) –panda 12:34, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

• Now panda, no need for a snide comment. I asked politely for what you meant when you said "there is joint administration." My browser cannot find a prior occurrence of the word "joint" on this page. I patiently await a response.--Anthon.Eff 12:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

• Have you read the text or are you only searching for text? –panda 13:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

• I also didn't find a source talking about joint administration for the prize in economics. -- Vision Thing -- 18:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

• What does "administrating" the prize mean and what does it involve? –panda 18:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

• Maybe we can focus on the selection process for the awards, at least as a start. The committees are picked by the bodies making the awards (Nobel foundation statutes). Medicine is awarded by the Karolinska Institute; chemistry, physics, and economics by the Swedish Academy of Sciences; literature by the Swedish Academy; and peace by a group of five people appointed by the Norwegian storting (all of this is in the current article). The Nobel Foundation manages the assets of all of the awards except for economics . What else should we consider? --Anthon.Eff 14:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

• There is no question who awards the prizes. (The info about the institution that awards the econ prize is one of the items that Vision Thing removed from the text, even though it was citied. ) I see the info about which institutions make the decisions for which award isn't already in the text. So you may want to add it to the "Nomination and selection" section or the introduction. You can also find the exact name of each committee per awarding institution on each institution's website. (They are not all called the "Nobel Committee".) –panda 15:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

• I think you are right, the selection process should be presented in more detail. The article discusses also how the committee turns over a report to a larger assembly within the institution, where some kind of vote is taken, and gives the example of the Karolinska Institute (the article gives no reference, but this arrangement is in the KI statutes). For the economics prize, there are statutes that state that the committee's "report and proposal" shall be submitted to the Academy, that the "Ninth Class" shall examine these and make it's recommendation to the Academy, and that the Academy as a whole shall make its decision. All of these meetings in the Kungliga Vetenskapsakademien are secret. Special statutes governing the other three prizes are linked to this page: (below the index at the top).--Anthon.Eff 21:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

• You may find easier to read prose about each institution's nomination/selection process on their websites. (Click on the UK flag for the English version.) I believe there is a link to them via the Noble Foundations' website. Otherwise just do a Google search. –panda 00:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

• I followed your suggestion panda, and checked the sites--they seem to all be at the press-release, public relations level, and don't really provide much information about the nomination and selection process. From what I've seen, the statutes on the Nobel Foundation site seem to be the best source. If this article were to go through external review again (Nature did one in 2005), it would be important to use the best sources. The statutes would of course also be the best source for determining in what ways the economics prize differs from the others. So far all I can come up with is that the economics prize was not specified in Alfred Nobel's will and that the Nobel Foundation does not manage its assets. Otherwise, it seems to be handled in the same way as the other prizes, and is clearly considered by the Nobel Foundation and the Kungliga Vetenskapsakademien to be a prize of the same stature as the chemistry and physics prizes.--Anthon.Eff 23:03, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, it is a prize of the same stature, but that doesn't make it a Nobel Prize. What name did you find for the awarding committee for the econ prize in comparison with the chemistry and physics prizes? –panda 03:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

• To me it seems silly to focus on something as superficial as a name. Alfred Nobel didn't include economics in his will. Riksbanken put forth funds so that the Nobel Foundation could award a prize in economics. There was nothing sneaky about this, and the prize was given an honest name: "Sveriges Riksbanks" is in the name to show who put up the funds; "in Alfred Nobel's memory" is in the name to show that--like the other prizes--it is in Alfred Nobel's memory. The procedure by which the prize is awarded is like all of the other prizes, because it is the intention of the Nobel Foundation that it be a Nobel prize like all of the others. It is called a "Nobel Prize" by the press, by the public, and even in a few places on the Nobel Foundation website (for example this comment about the 1996 prize in economics). The Kungliga Vetenskapsakademien awards prizes that have nothing to do with the Nobel Foundation: the Crafoord Prize; the Rolf Schock Prize; the Gregori Aminoff Prize. These prizes are treated quite differently in the KV website, and--unlike the economics prize--you will not find links from the pages of these prizes to the Nobel Foundation or to the Nobel prizes. Your effort to separate the economics prize from the other prizes seems to be based solely on its name. As Shakespeare said, "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." panda, this article needs work, and there is a lot you could do here that other editors would not oppose. Why not try to find that common ground? --Anthon.Eff 16:16, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

If it were a Nobel Prize, why isn't it called "Nobel Prize in Economics?" Because in the strict meaning, it IS NOT a Nobel Prize, it's a prize awarded in the memory of Nobel, or whatever it's called. Doesn't the name of the prize say just about everything? -- Mackan 12:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

• Anthon.Eff: Could you please answer the question? What name did you find for the awarding committee for the econ prize in comparison with the chemistry and physics prizes? –panda 05:17, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

• panda, can it really be that you've forgotten the name? We've been talking about it over the talk pages of two articles for nearly a week. If you've forgotten the name, then almost certainly you have forgotten the other points that we've discussed. If that's the case, then continuing this conversation is pointless. We tried to engage you, but it just didn't work. So back to business: I propose that we accept Tkynerd's modification of Vision Thing's compromise text, as follows:

"The Nobel Prizes (Swedish: Nobelpriserna), as designated in Alfred Nobel's will in 1895, are awarded for physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature and peace. A prize in economics in memory of Nobel was instituted by Sweden's central bank in 1968. The first five prizes were first awarded in 1901, while the first prize in economics was awarded in 1969. All six prizes are administered by the Nobel Foundation and are widely regarded as the supreme commendations in their subject areas." --Anthon.Eff 15:57, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Just stumbled upon this page, and the very first sentence jumps out with a huge factual error, casting the entire article in doubt. The prize in economics is not a Nobel Prize, no way no how. There are only five Nobel prizes, the ones Alfred Nobel himself made in his will. The prize in economics is given in Alfred Nobel's memory, and is financed not by Nobel's willed money, but by the Swedish tax payers. I cannot believe that the reference from Encarta is somehow viewed as more "valid" than the Nobel Foundation itself. Although human error and/or space constraints on a couple of occations have indirectly put the Prize in Economic in the "Nobel Prize categorgy" on the webpage (see Anthon.Effs link above) that does not mean you can blatantly diregard that the Nobel Foundation itself time and time again say it is not a Nobel Prize; on the webpage, in the Museum (which I have personally visited on several occations), in all press releases, during the prize ceremony (which I have attended) and during the banquet afterwards (which I have also attended). Be as it may that popular view say it is a Nobel prize, in my opinion popular view should not overrule facts; The prize in economics is a very prestigous award that is treated like a Nobel Prize, but it really isnt one. When the Nobel Foundation itself in no uncertain terms has said that it is not a Nobel Prize, it does not help to use conjecture based on the wrong use of a word here and there to "prove" that it is.--Lensor 12:07, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

• Anthon.Eff: You seem to be avoiding the question -- please answer the question. What name did you find for the awarding committee for the econ prize in comparison with the chemistry and physics prizes? Are you also ignoring Lensor's and Mackan's comments as well as my changes to the suggested text just to push your POV? –panda 16:30, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

• panda is contesting the fact that the Nobel Foundation "administers" the six prizes. Does anyone else have trouble with the phrase all six prizes are administered by the Nobel Foundation? If you have trouble with it, please specify who actually administers the prizes. Support for the Nobel Foundation role in administering the economics prize can be found in § 4 of the special statutes for the economics prize:

The funds placed at the disposal of the Nobel Foundation by Sveriges Riksbank for defrayment of its expenses shall, after deduction of the administrative expenses incurred by the Nobel Foundation in conjunction with the donation and other general expenses, be used for defrayment of the expenses incurred for the presentation of the Prize. The amount not used to cover the year's expenditure shall be reserved for future expenditure. (emphasis added)

--Anthon.Eff 19:22, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

• What I am contesting is already stated above. It's not 100% true that the Nobel Foundation administrates the econ prize and stating so is misleading. I will remind you that you haven't replied to my earlier question. –panda 19:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

panda, I opened a new topic, to address an actual edit of the article. The topic is at the bottom of the page so that everyone can easily find it. Please do not move this section elsewhere on the page. The intention is to commence editing the article, and to terminate a pointless conversation. But now that I have your attention--who, according to your sources, are the other parties that administer the econ prize? --Anthon.Eff 20:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

• Your comment is an extension of #Economics as the original text that we're discussing is in this topic. I'm sorry that you see this topic as pointless but you were the one who chose to stop replying to my questions, which I'll remind you remain unanswered. To reply to your question, look at what the Nobel Foundation does, according to their web page, and compare that with what that they do for the econ prize. What's the difference? Then check what the definition of "administrate"/"administer" is. –panda 22:08, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

• panda, there is some relevant policy that would make things a bit easier on this page: WP:CIVIL, and WP:POINT. Why did you move this thread when I asked you not to? Why are you constantly badgering me about answering a question that you already know the answer to? May I remind you that before you asked that question I asked what you meant by "joint administration" and that you failed to answer it? That was a question that I didn't know the answer to and still don't. But I'm not badgering you about that question because I'm trying to have an open discussion, and trying to improve the article. Badgering you would not help accomplish those goals. Now, let me reiterate to those who wish to improve the article: are there any objections to the phrase employing "administered" in the first post on this thread? --Anthon.Eff 22:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

• Your comment is a continuation of the #Economics thread as it refers specifically to text in this thread. So please stop moving it to a new one where we'll waste time repeating the same comments again. I'll also remind you that you've already changed the text without consensus, as I've already given a different suggestion which you ignored. The answer to your question is already given above. What part of the answer do you find unsatisfactory? Also, what part of WP:CIVIL and WP:POINT are relevant here? –panda 00:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Infobox

Something that's a little bizarre with the infobox is that there is a picture of the Nobel Prize medal but the econ prize is also mentioned. The econ prize has a different medal. So should a picture of the econ medal also be included in the infobox, since it's mentioned? Or should the econ prize be removed from the infobox, since it's not a Nobel Prize? –panda 20:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I changed the caption under the picture. -- Vision Thing -- 21:40, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Rationale? It's still not a Nobel Prize and doesn't address the question above. –panda 22:36, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I found a page with pictures of all the Nobel Prize medals. Which brings me to another question, what about the Peace Prize? It has a different picture than the ones handed out in Sweden. Shouldn't it also be represented in the infobox? Could we apply the same fair use rationale that is currently used for the image in the infobox to images of the medals from the Nobel Foundation? –panda 22:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Jocelyn Bell / Pulsar discovery

Jocelyn Bell / Pulsar discovery 58.168.59.103 02:39, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Jocelyn Bell discovered the first pulsar. Her senior scientist Anthony Hewish won the Physics Nobel prize for this same discovery. Jocelyn Bell co-wrote the paper on pulsars. her name came second on the paper after Anthony Hewish's (as it should have). However, Hewish won the prize and Bell didn't. Up to three people may win any given prize, and in this instance only two were named.

Jocelyn Bell made the physical discovery and participated heavily on the theory and mechanism behind this. Many other scientists, (including Hewish himself and Fred Hoyle) believed Bell warrented the Nobel Prize for this discovery.

If made today, Bell would have been a recipient. This was simply an error, albeit a massive error and injustice made by the Nobel committee.

This should be mentioned amongst the grievous errors made on behalf of the committee

This is covered in Nobel Prize controversies. –panda 05:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Peace prize awarder

The article states that the King of Sweden hands out all the prizes expect the Peace Prize. Who awards this? Ygoloxelfer 17:30, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

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