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Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee,Newyorkbrad 18:15, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Jenin

I know that this now may make it look like an exhortation to gang up and help each other in the editing process - but I did just want to say thank you for (unintentionally) making me feel today that I am not alone or mad when it comes to dealing with this crazy article and some of the people who seem to think they have taken charge of it and seem impervious to any rational debate, or statement of the obvious, which happens to contradict their own deeply held beliefs. And to think I only started here (anonymously under an old IP address) editing out typos in film articles. Btw I have also posted this on Nwe's talk page --Nickhh 19:47, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Archiving

Madam, I thought I would save you the trouble of archiving.:)) Palestine forgotten 15:30, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but you buried my barnstars! I'm not too proud to admit I'm proud of them things.--G-Dett 16:07, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Silly of me. going to fix it now. Palestine forgotten 16:19, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Is that ok now? I actually lifted that panel on top from a guy. Palestine forgotten 16:24, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Hell yes Palestine forgotten! All clustered together like that now I'm super proud.--G-Dett 21:50, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration notice

It appears that I inadverently placed the notice of the arbitration case (which someone has moved now) on your userpage rather than your talkpage. Sorry about that. Newyorkbrad 16:20, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Your view requested

You might be interested in my comments at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Workshop#Injunction. Would you say that was a fair summary of the "clique" problem? -- ChrisO 00:12, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Jenin - WP:NPA

i thought it over and decided that these escalating comments of yours, in which you state that:

• I need to understand that my "sophistries" won't fly with you. and that you will "explode them" every time, and that every time you will "explode them" my credibility takes a hit.

• I need to significantly raise the pitch of my discussion if I want to be taken seriously on the page,

are a tad too personal. i request you go over WP:CIV and WP:NPA and avoid such statements in the future and stick to the talk issues rather than make things personal.

i note that to your first "explode them" comment i already asked you to take a step back and noted to you that i have no interest in personal conflicts. Jaakobou 21:10, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

3RR note: i'v now noticed that this revert (on 16:23, 16 August) of yours was the 6th edit in the span of 24hrs. i don't plan on reporting this, but i suggest you stick to the rules and avoid edit wars. Jaakobou 22:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I count five but your point stands, and I apologize.--G-Dett 23:10, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

i find you latest comment that "Jaakobou ... You should revert your latest stupid propaganda edit if you wish to be taken seriously" to be a breach of both WP:CIV and WP:NPA. this is the second notice you've received on such an issue in the span of 72 hours, and i request you avoid this type of behavior and consider other alternatives to resolve whatever issues that bother you. Jaakobou 10:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

i honestly don't know why you insist on this. i request you restrict yourself to the article issues and avoid this type personally oriented wordings. if there are non-article material issues that bother you, you should consider other alternatives to resolve them. Jaakobou 20:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

note: please consider easing off on making claims on how i regard other editors claiming i don't trust or respect others, i don't think i elicited such a description even when i noted you about uncivil commentaries. also, i would appreciate it if you don't "pair me up" with anyone else just because you are in a heated exchange with them. Jaakobou 22:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Please do not attack other editors. If you continue, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages.

regarding your statement on who or what i consider laughably or what i am supposedly thrilled with; but most of all, the allegation that i've now, according to you, "doctored and puffed it up". these interactions are unacceptable personal attacks and i request you avoid any mentions regarding what you allege i think, feel or do - unless you wish to open an ArbCom discussion on the matter. i honestly don't know why you insist on this but from your earlier comment i'm guessing i should deduce that you don't trust or respect me much. not that there is any prerequisite for you to in order to edit wikipedia, but such statements certainly don't help and you should consider other alternatives to resolve whichever issue it is that bothers you. Jaakobou 00:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case

You have been accused of sockpuppetry. Please refer to ] for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with notes for the suspect before editing the evidence page.Template:Do not delete

comment - i hope this is just my own paranoya and not an intentional and blunt breach of protocols. Jaakobou 02:21, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Made the change you requested

I trusted your assertions, as I didn't have time to check. I would, however, appreciate it if you could delete the comment you made on my section about the DRV (as it doesn't seem relevant); and more generally if you could just try a less strident and accusatory tone. I've read through your various contributions, and you make good points (even if we don't always agree), but if you don't mind a bit of feedback, you'll seem a lot less partisan if you a) tone down the rhetoric a bit, and b) accept that we can all have honest disagreements. --Leifern 15:47, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

martyrs capital

please note this discussion - Talk:Battle_of_Jenin#martyrs.27_capital - and consider changing your last edit. btw, i've had another couple sources for this, but i did not keep them since i figured the BBC reference was good enough. Jaakobou 20:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for looking out for me

I really appreciated your comments at the 3RR here. As usual, you did your homework and presented the case much better than I could have. I just wanted to say thanks. Tiamat 14:28, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of apartheid

Due to your interest in the Allegations of apartheid article I think you may be interested in this proposal Talk:Allegations_of_apartheid#Proposed_Move. Lothar of the Hill People 19:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

battle of jenin - II

previous issues related with this article - Battle of Jenin - WP:NPA , Sockpuppetry case.

i apologize for the sock inquiry, however, it seemed a possibility at that time and it was my first dealing with the SSP prossess.

regardless, it would seem that your revert in this instance, justified under: "your edit of the ADL material was verbose, ungrammatical, superfluous, and incredibly well-poisoning." was (1) most uncivil. and (2) removed the adjustment to the reference, in which page 38 was noted as the location of the quote.

to add, i'm not sure on why you objected (/removed) to a note about the ADL being an organization intended on advocating against the defamation of the Jewish people? it surely clarifies your earlier concerns about partisan commentary. Jaakobou 23:33, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jaakabou, thank you for posting this apology, but please understand that I have no hard feelings about the sockpuppet thing. I thought it was funny. It is my personality to make the most of such things.

Regarding the revert, my edit summary referred to the material I was reverting, not to its author. That material was indeed verbose, ungrammatical, superfluous, and well-poisoning; that was exactly the problem with it and exactly why I was reverting it. All of those problems were, moreover, related: the material had become verbose and superfluous in the process of poisoning the well, trying to predispose the reader to be receptive to the ADL's commentary, reminding him that the anti-defamation league opposes defamation (a bit like reminding readers that Mothers Against Drunk Driving consists of mothers who oppose drunk driving), indeed reminding him of this multiple times ("defamation of the Jewish people," "demonization of Israel," etc.); and it was ungrammatical because its verbosity had created a run-on sentence with its clauses all out of joint. You obviously have an excellent command of English. If I thought you were struggling with the language (as opposed to struggling with NPOV), I'd never have posted an edit summary like that.

Now, to your question about why I don't think your sunny description of the ADL as "an organization intended on advocating against the defamation of the Jewish people" belongs here. First of all, because it's well-poisoning (one can poison the well with positive information as well as negative). But "surely," you argue, "it clarifies earlier concerns about partisan commentary?" Well, no, it doesn't. The ADL isn't regarded as partisan because it opposes the defamation of the Jewish people. It is regarded as partisan because it aligns itself – with absolute, unwavering and unreflective consistency – with whoever is currently in power in Israel, with whatever Israeli policies currently are, and with powerful domestic Israel lobbies such as AIPAC. And, finally, because it regularly and indiscriminately denounces anyone critical of Israel, with a vehemence (and not-infrequent dishonesty) that verges on outright character assassination. The ADL is a political organization; do you not realize that? Why do you think they deny the Armenian genocide? Because of Israel's strategic ties with Turkey. There are many, many intelligent people on all sides of the political spectrum who are passionately opposed to defamation of the Jewish people, who are just as passionately opposed to the poltical and lobbying machine that is the current incarnation of the ADL. I stress "current"; the ADL has done extremely valuable work in the past, and was not always so corrupt and cynical an organization.

Finally, it is gross exaggeration to describe an ADL press release as a "case study." It's bad enough that we're including a statement produced by ADL staffers surfing the internet in a section on "post-fighting investigations" produced by human-rights experts on the ground at the site of the battle; let's not compound this poor judgment by engaging in puffery.

I hope this answers your questions; if not, do post again.--G-Dett 01:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

(1) i find your commentary in the 1st paragraph increasingly uncivil. i'm starting to wonder to the type of explanation that you require in order to stop as this is not the first time i've given you a notice.

(2) you'll pardon me if i disagree with your presentation on paragraph 2 and note that the ADL describes their document as a case study and that is how i registered this: "commented in a report which presents their case study". (this objection, which should be on talk, could be touched up)

(3) i haven't seen you object to "puffery" when the sources had the opposite perspective and i remind you that you ignored both points in this notice. Jaakobou 06:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

offtopic - totally disputed tag

to the issue of the totally disputed tag, you are invited to comment here. Jaakobou 00:10, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Battle of Jenin

Can I encourage you to strikethrough the last sentence ("Understand, however, ...") of this comment? It strikes me as unnecessary, provocative, and incompatible with WP:AGF... Jakew 13:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi G-Dett. I applaud your decision to strike some of the other comments, but I think you should reconsider this one. I'm sure that it wasn't your intention, but the impression it creates is something like this: "Clearly you lot have no concern whatsoever for NPOV, and have been getting away with rabid POV pushing for ages. But I, G-Dett, will not tolerate your misbehaviour any longer."

Please give it some thought, anyway. Jakew 14:59, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Lead

after some extra thought, and considering your displeased expression to it, i've decided to remove the link to the previous talk. i'm left though to wonder at what POINT you presume i was trying to make. Jaakobou 23:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of apartheid

Please see Talk:Allegations_of_apartheid#Propose_move_to_.22Apartheid_analogies.22. Lothar of the Hill People 21:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

From Antilles to Jenin

Hey G-Dett, hope you're enjoying the cruise! Meanwhile, please do me a favor and help me understand why you are claiming that "editors are evidently lying" and, accordingly, AGF can be dropped. Specifically, what statements are you claiming are deliberate falsehoods? Or are you saying, in a somewhat more rhetorical(?) fashion, that some edits are "lying to readers" and hence the editors are themselves lying? Thanks for letting me ask you here. HG | Talk 03:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC) P.S. Shouldn't I be asking you also to comment on the article restructuring proposal at Talk:Allegations of Israeli apartheid? Ciao.

Ahoy matey! Thanks for you note, I sure hope Fred B, Flo et al aren't tempted to create AoLA for fun, lest they have to take their own pending remedy (non-remedy?). Anyway, betw island jumping, pls do look at Part A of the restructuring, since you seem to have gotten up to speed on more material than just A&M. Rabidly yours, HG | Talk 16:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi again, G-Dett. I'm real honored that you've offered to co-nominate me for adminship. I'm interested in serving as an admin but would like to avoid a premature or otherwise unsuccessful RfA. Since I know my own real life experiences and responsibilities, I am confident that I can be trusted as a responsible sysop at Misplaced Pages. However, I realize Wikipedians only know me through HG's edits/contributions. So I wrote Jossi a few questions and thought I'd run them by you to, though maybe you're currently back on cruise. Here ya go: What do you think I should do to prepare for the RfA? Do you have a sense of whether/how I should address some of my shortcomings prior to an RfA? Or during the RfA discussion? (e.g., gaps in technical know-how) Given the above etc., any advice on when would be a good time to start an RfA? Thanks very much, G-Dett, for being so encouraging to me since we've met. I;d like to chat with you more about an RfA when you have a chance. Take care, HG | Talk 16:48, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

holding off the pallywood issue

regarding this archiving revert, i accept to leave the pallywood subsection out for a little more, but i note you that i archived it considering that for almost a week, no one has made a comment on the topic and it seems that no one is interested enough in taking the link out other than you (only eleland made some google related commentary - almost 10 days ago). Jaakobou 16:17, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

10 more days have passed, what do you say we archive it for the meantime and if you want to reopen it, we will? Jaakobou 05:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

WP:AN/I#PalestineRemembered_IV

Per WP:AN/I#PalestineRemembered_IV are you prepared to accept me as PalestineRemembered's mentor?Geni 01:12, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

ME articles

I don't think that Board of Deputies of British Jews‎ - an organization which is the main representative body of British Jewry is a 'Middle east" article covered under my topic ban. I made that edit over a week ago, while both my mentors were quite active, and neither has saw fit to comment on this. I am of course willing to hear otherwise from them. Isarig 22:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

hello

I love this comment - I may even start a Top Ten Hit Parade for it. Nice to meet you - I'm sure our paths will cross soon enough. Tvoz |talk 22:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

hahahaha- I know what you mean Tvoz |talk 03:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I love it too. But suffer me as you wish, I really think you need to redo your last edit to Talk:Battle of Jenin. See my note there, ok? HG | Talk 15:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Replied on my Talk, maybe keep thread there for Tewfik's sake. If so, should I msg you or do you watch it enough? Be well, HG | Talk 15:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Warning

per removal of the following from the article and also for the claim that i should, "Stop galloping around on your hobby horse misrepresenting source material,"

i'd expect this uncivil personal attack to not repeat itself, and also perhaps some notes on the article's talk page regarding whichever content issues you might have.

removed material:

• Page numbers for United Nations material - Pg 11-12, Para 52-53, 56-57</ref>
• Statements made by Erekat to which the controversy section is all about.

-- Jaakobou 15:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)