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| The appropriate action on your part is to explain on the AfD page why you think this article should be kept. Again, please refer to ]. --] 18:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| I explained last night why this article needed to be kept and got shit on by all the God playing morons who "patrol" this damn website. | |||
| *Where did you make this explanation? --] 18:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Let me see if I can find it--hold on. | |||
| SOMEONE WROTE THIS: | |||
| "How do we put deletion bait on Misplaced Pages? Let us count the ways:vanity, promotional, non-notability (no Google hits for this) and what can you put forth? Daniel Case 05:56, 11 January 2006 (UTC)" | |||
| THEN I WROTE THIS: | |||
| Google the filmmaker Eric Norcross and you will see some fan sites as well as listings on various other sites like famouspeople.com I object to this decision whole-heartedly. Please dispute with me through my talk section before taking action. | |||
| -Katherine Johnso | |||
| I find it hard to believe that this isn't enough. | |||
| Oh an ah... yeah--thanks for the humiliation--the flaming--I only wanted to contribute the things I'm interested in--as there's not much information out there about them. | |||
| -KJ | |||
| * It might very well be enough. But, the appropriate place to put this would have been ]. We discuss the possible deletion of articles on these pages. I strongly welcome your rationale on that page. Unfortunately, another admin has blocked you for 24 hours (I'm working to see if I can have that admin undo the block). AfDs remain open for 7 days usually. If you craft a full rationale, including films made and references suck as a direct link to Eric's page on famouspeople.com I will put it on the AfD page myself if the block remains in effect. Just flesh out your comments above here, on your talk page (you can always edit your talk page while a block is in effect). Please, do not get pissed off and leave. I am attempting to work with you to help you understand how Misplaced Pages works. I think you have generally good intentions, but do not yet know how things work around here. I'm trying to help you. --] 18:31, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Fair enough--you're a good person. | |||
| The Eric Norcross Biography I posted has some of the links to the external websites. I was going to insert a link specifically to the google searches as well as the google picture searches--however all the deletion activity began. | |||
| I Also just noticed that filmmakers.com has something on one of his short films that I posted about as well as a documentary he did. Feel free to send this over to the discussion group. | |||
| *Thanks for working with me! I'm really trying to help you. I understand you being upset. Everybody gets upset from time to time (unless you're in a tantric state on top of a mountain somewhere all the time! :)). As for the deletion activity; there are times when articles are knee-jerked into AfD. At times, some articles are saved from deletion by enterprising editors who work to salvage the article, make it more encyclopedic, and provide a solid underpinning for why the article should be kept. Eric Norcross might be such an article; I don't know. But, to get there, we need to be diplomatic and not swing knives, even if we think others are swinging knives. Swinging knives will guarantee the article gets deleted, because nobody will believe the article is posted with good intent if the AfD page is blanked, and the AfD notice is removed from the article by the person who created the article in the first place. Let's work together on this, ok? --] 18:43, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ----------------------- | |||
| As a film buff I would also like to acknowledge someone's statement about the IMDB. The IMDB doesn't acknowledge independent films or filmmakers unless: A. They sell it on Amazon or B. It's had a wide-release (meaning further than simply the tri-state area and northeast.) Eric Norcross is a great New York filmmaker and an outstanding writer, I read his articles in the Portland Press Herald all the time. I would appreciate it if he were included in your database--and to end this so that I can contribute other information. But I don't want to contribute anything more until this is settled. Otherwise I'm writing for nothing. | |||
| * Well, if it ends up getting deleted then certainly contributions on he and his works will not be worth your time. But, there's plenty of other ways you can contribute to the project. I grant and agree with your sentiments regarding IMDB; very strong points indeed. I'm currently trying to find other references to Eric from other sources that might sway people's opinions on the AfD. I also cleaned up the article a little. Notability is a fickle thing on Misplaced Pages. There's no clear consensus on it, as notability is very subjective. Eric might be well known among the film making community in NYC, but the rest of the world might not care. It's sometimes hard to get over the notability threshold. Please do not be dismayed if the article on Eric doesn't get over that threshold. There are more than 900,000 articles on this project where you could contribute; I'm sure there's plenty of other areas where you work would be very much appreciated! --] 18:59, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *Also, note that you can easily sign your comments here (and on other discussion pages) by tacking a "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" on to the end of your comments (if you're looking at that in an edit window, you'd need to remove the nowiki statements around the tilda's, and the quotation marks of course). Alternatively, you can just click the second button from the right on the bar above the editing window. That signs for you. --] 19:01, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Signature testing... nothing more. ] 19:25, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| * Good job on signing :) I placed a comment on the AfD page for the Eric Norcross article. Honestly, I'm finding it hard going trying to find some references that show the notability of this individual, at least in so far as where the Misplaced Pages community thinks the notability bar lies. There are references for Eric at famouspeople.com and filmmakers.com. Problem here is in part how Misplaced Pages measures notability. Alexa rankings of websites is one way. Generally, we only allow articles here on Misplaced Pages for websites that are in the top 10,000 websites on the web. Check out the (click on traffic rankings), and pump in http://www.filmmakers.com for an example. Both filmmakers.com and famouspeople.com don't crack the top 100,000 websites, much less top 10,000. Thus, references to Eric Norcross on these websites isn't going to do much to help the case that this article needs to be kept. I did find evidence that he has two works registered with the Library of Congress, but it's doubtful this will sway any opinions. | |||
| *Also, the various articles you've created on each of his movies should really be merged into a superset article, perhaps the ] article itself. Each of those movie articles will almost definitely be deleted, and I personally (knowing wiki-norms) don't see a reason for keeping them. However, merging the content into the Eric Norcross article might be appropriate. | |||
| *Still, I think the Eric Norcross article will be deleted unless we can find some other references, major news media articles on him for example. Please don't be dismayed at this. It just means he hasn't attained a level of notability that the project feels he must have to be included in this resource. Brittanica.com or indeed any other encyclopedia asks similar questions regarding each entry they place in their encyclopedias. We do have to set the significance/notability bar somewhere. If we didn't, we could theoretically have an article on every tree lining Main Street, USA with a description of the tree, it's height, a photo, etc. I'm not equating Eric with a tree, just showing that we have to have a signficance bar set somewhere, and at this point it appears Eric is beneath the one the Misplaced Pages community has set for itself. | |||
| *If this doesn't work out, consider contributing to such articles as ] and related areas. Also, you might check out ]. If you have questions, ask! I'll be happy to help. --] 19:50, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| It's fine--it was worth a shot I suppose. I apologize for the drama.] 19:56, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| *No worries. There's no permanent damage to the project that anyone can do (save for the deletion of images by administrators). That's the beauty of this; we're all working together towards a common goal. That's why when you click "Save page" your edits don't belong to you anymore. You've got to be willing to let them go, to contribute to the common good. I really want you to be successful here, and I think you will. But, success is done by working collaboratively, and not by blanking pages and removing notices. The notices of various types are an integral part of the project. They can lead to significant improvement in articles. Have a look at ]. When that article was put up for AfD, it looked like this . It was improved during the AfD process and references were found that showed her to be, in fact, notable by Misplaced Pages standards. Thus, the article was kept (See the ]). This is how it works. I would never have contributed to that article if I had not seen it on AfD, but because I did (and because others did) we were able to save the article on her from oblivion. | |||
| *I'm very sorry that the content you have so far wanted to contribute will probably be deleted. But, that doesn't mean your contributions will be unacceptable on other articles. You can do great things here! --] 20:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
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| ] 22:50, 11 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == "Please don't delete what I submit--is all I ask." == | |||
| Katherine, I'd like to comment on this statement you made on your userpage. I'd like to reiterate what I said before; once you click the "Save page" button, your contributions to Misplaced Pages are no longer your own. You must be willing to let go of every contribution you make to any articles here. Just as you are allowed to productively change articles written by others, so too can they change what you have done. Some people might find a better way to write a statement. Some might find a better layout. Similarly, you might be able to do the same for articles written by others. This is how the collaborative effect works to improve the project over the long haul, by continual improvement by editors with good intentions. Sometimes, even well intended edits will be removed or changed. This does not mean the contribution is worthless. It's part of the evolutionary process all articles at Misplaced Pages go through (some faster than others). By contributing content, whether it's a new article or changes to an existing article, you are subject to this evolutionary system. Your changes and additions are not your own once you click "Save page". You must let go. (dang, I feel like I'm ] talking about the dark side! :)) | |||
| In the creation of a movie, the director does not work alone. S/he works in collaboration with the entire staff including those doing the acting to produce a finished product. Misplaced Pages acts to some extent in the same way. Directors do not work in isolation on movies. Neither do editors on Misplaced Pages. --] 14:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
| It's find] 18:10, 13 January 2006 (UTC) | |||
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