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Biography: Musicians Start‑class

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Brazil Start‑class

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Born eight months premature...

...seems impossible to me. But I do not know how to edit a Misplaced Pages page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.126.94.210 (talk) 14:58, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

What do you want me ot say: that she was born one month prematre, since she was born one month earlier than nine months? Is it so??Lulu Margarida 12:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fixed this phrasing. Collectonian 01:39, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Authorization for copyrights

This subtitle is a copyright of this web site: www.somostodosum.ig.com.br. And the copy/pasted text was authorized via e-mail by its author:

AUTORIZAÇÃO

Autorizamos a "Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre" a utilizar em suadatabase e sob licença "GFDL - GNU Free Documentation License" os

textos e informações constantes em http://somostodosum.ig.com.br/conteudo/conteudo.asp?id=6705 e http://somostodosum.ig.com.br/conteudo/conteudo.asp?id=6728

Atenciosamente,

AcidZero

Realizador do site Saindo da Matrix (www.saindodamatrix.com.br)

truxton@gmail.com

Lulu Margarida 17:00, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Issues with the article

I feel that this article is very overlong and loaded with unsourced and trivial information. I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of other editors in that regard.

Firstly, many of the sources appear to be linked to a fan website, simonepedacos.multiply.com, which I'm not sure is a reliable source; there's also a YouTube video used as a source, which is definitely not reliable as per WP:RS. There are entire sections that are virtually unsourced, such as the Repertoire and Talent, Voice sections. Repertoire, especially, seems to be a distillation of information that could be considered original research.

Much of the article is written in an overly positive tone. Sentences such as "Throughout the '80s, a decade marked by a wide recognition of female singers, she consolidated her name reaching sales records and packing nightclubs, gymnasium, stadiums: her records flew out of the shelves as soon as they were thrown and the name Simone shone as one of the greatest icons of the local show business." are found throughout the article, and need to be toned down extensively. Other examples are "From first LP recorded then to the current days the talent discovered is expressed by the spontaneity, the gifted talent , without any registration of passage for music schools or song classes, either uses the reading of ciphers as a resource to the chords." and the first sentence under "Duets", as well as others.

No offense to the author, but there are grammar issues throughout the article that need to be polished.

Essentially, there are a lot of issues that need to be dealt with. I've tagged requesting copyediting and further reliable sources; hopefully, more editors can help out to reduce some of these issues.

Thoughts from others would be greatly appreciated. Tony Fox (arf!) 21:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

1. The "fan website" (simnepedacos.multiply, the most important source of media and news abt her), is a long time fan and friend of her. His name is Fernando and he is also in charge of her official website;
2. The repertoire can easily be cited, although article has 23 citations; I could do that to her official website. I just didn´t because she will upload a whole NEW website any time soon;
3. It is widely know she never went to school, to any music classes, but I can cite that as well; Simone herself knows abt the artcile and is is by far the most extensive work abt her on the web;
4. Duets? Well, that´s very easy to cite. Would like me to? There are pictures, videos and all the CDs she recorded;
5. There is no original reserach at all, in any part of the article. The article is cited by Fernando and he uses it on his web site as the only and the most important biography abt her on the web;
6. As for grammar, or spelling, several editors have corrected but so far not more than seven "mistakes", most of them spelling (I would say typing, not grammar. Lulu Margarida 21:41, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

As for the citation: ; this link is from Brazil´s most respected news Magazine, Revista Veja. There was this article on the cover of Veja, Simone and many other brazilian female singers. The article is entitled "The nation of femal singers" and is aimed at telling the history of how "women sharply prevail" in Brazilian Music, most of them consolidated their names, fame, and etc in the eighties. Lulu Margarida 22:16, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

The "gifted talent, spontaneity" is also WIDELY know that she never had teacher... or wassisted a schoolclass. Lulu Margarida 22:16, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I concur with Tony Fox's assessment and think this review is long overdue. I would have done it myself, if it would not have inflamed an already difficult situation.--Dali-Llama 00:42, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I also concur with Tony Fox's assessment. I've tackled some of it and cleaned out all for the bad references (including all to the fan site which, by Lulu Margarida's own admission does not meet reliability guidelines when it is run by her close friend and fan). I also cleaned up the biography section some. Some help from the Biography project would be good. There is probably a lot that should be removed per WP:Living as well. Collectonian 01:01, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Additional notes. In working on the clean up, more copyvio violations were found (whole sections listed from the allmusic page), so they have been removed. Collectonian 02:11, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Who is Bittencourt de Oliveira? Very good job! You put all these pics together, looks good! You deleted inof abt her repertoire...Lulu Margarida 01:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Collectonian: Good job on cleanup. This is more concise and readable, and I'm not seeing the promotional tone anymore, at least not so it jumps out at me. I'm a littel iffy on the big list of songs at the end, but I'll leave that up to consensus. All in all, looks smoother. Thanks for the second opinion. =) Tony Fox (arf!) 16:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :) Probably still needs some copyediting, and definately still needs sourcing, but hopefully most of the cruft is out. I'm undecided on the songs too. It is technically part of her music, and I couldn't find precedence for or against keeping them. Collectonian 19:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Main spectacles?

Main spctacles appear to be a repetition of discography? And what abt grammar and spelling ???? No grammar nor spelling problems so far? Lulu Margarida 01:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

What abt gramamr / spelling? Lulu Margarida 01:26, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

There were a ton of grammar and spelling errors in the sections I've edited so far. Most of the sentences made little to no sense, and many appeared to be bad translations from another source. It makes me wonder if much of this article came from the fan site after being run through Babelfish or the like. Collectonian 01:27, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Bibliography

A bibliography should be a section of things Simone wrote herself, not things written about her. Putting here in case they may be useful for referencing for the article

Bibliography

• Travessia: A vida de Milton Nascimento. Maria Dolores. 2006. Rcb Publisher.
• 1985, O ano em que o Brasil recomeçou. Edmundo Barreiros e Pedro Só. 2006. Ediouro Publisher.
• História sexual da MPB. Rodrigo Faour. 2006. Rcb publisher.
• Nada será como antes, a MPB nos anos 70. Ana Maria Bahiana. 2006. Senac Publisher.
• Timoneiro - Perfil Biográfico de Hermínio Bello de Carvalho. Alexandre Pavan. 2006. Casa da Palavra Publisher.
• Toquinho: 40 anos de música. João Carlos Pecci. 2005. RCS Publisher .
• Viver de Teatro - Uma biografia de Flávio Rangel. José Rubens Siqueira. Nova Alexandria Publisher.
  • Bibliography not critical. Just citations.

So, you should call yr friends while you have insomnia (as yr user page warns us) and ask them why they simply forgot to correct all these grammar and spelling that you yr self is not showing where they are. Many editors visited the article but didn´t find anything but typing errors. You can´t even imagine how helpful yr work is, and how funny it sounds call Simone as Bittencourt de Oliveira. You knwo that is even a JOKE abt it, because she so WIDELY know for her first name that whe someone calls her for the family´s name she doesn´t even answer!!! Funny, huh? Yeah, it´s very famous joke media and press usually does with her --how abt instead of Princess Diana, we call her Miss Spencer? I wonder why you have insomnia: green tea is very good for insomnia. Lulu Margarida 01:42, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Per Misplaced Pages guidelines, people are usually referred to by their last names in articles, so I followed convention there. Since she is more commonly called by her first name, I've updated the article accordingly. If you are unwilling to acknowledge or accept that the article was full of grammar and spelling errors, there isn't anything I can do. You can compare versions to see what was corrected, if you want to see them. Other editors may have visited the article, but its sheer length was daunting so its understandable that most went after the biggest issues they noted. Also, please read the WP:Civility policy. Your snide comments are neither welcome nor appropriate and an appropriate warning has been left on your user page. Collectonian 01:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I Would advice you to CORRECT all these grammar / spelling because so far you have only cut and then useing MY TEXT, and my grmmar and spelling, cutting and again cutting and then throwing to another place. Shouldn´t you REWRITE what is left of it? Have evr wrote an article --I don´t think so...Do you speka any foreign language? Lulu Margarida 01:48, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

The things cut were not encyclopedic and had no place in the article. What was kept was rewritten, as best I could, to correct some of the grammar and spelling issues. Right now, I'm mostly concentrating on removing the extraneous stuff to make it easier to copyedit. Collectonian 01:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, no! You deleted Bittencourt de Oliveira!! You know, by this time dozens of Simone´s fans are already LAUGHING at all this...Some of them are telling me they want to see YOU writing, speaking and spelling in portuguese! Beautiufl work! Beautiful!! Iam serious, a shorter booki better than a large one... :O) !!!!

Sure, Iam looking all these diffs, and I SEE NO GRMMAR NOR SPELLING CORRECTIONS SO FAR. You are using my text --you deleted Cds, repertoire infos, and even her voice range!!! What´s yr guesse? She is Mezzo-soprano or Contralto...Do you know what these nemas mean? Well, I see you deleted the info concerning her nominations for the Grammy!! :O) WHta else? The compliments from That guy, what´s his name? Oh, Quincy Jones!! Oh, yeah! How would you call him? Bond, James Bond? Jones, Quincy, Jones? De Oliveira, Simone...Lulu Margarida 01:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

You said the sheer lenght? You mean yr friends, editors, administrators, don´t read LONG, tiring (oh, too long...lots of words!!) articles??? Are you sure you mean that? There MANY other things there I could whisper to you (just between us, ok?) much worse than Simone xx Bittencourt de Oliveira...but I will let you think while yr in bed! Lulu Margarida 02:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Grammar?

Very good job, you are talented! The only thing you really edited on this article was changing her name --I just don´t understand why you belive me...I mean calling her for her first name is a trivia, and you should follow WP ´s rule, not me. So refer her Bittencourt de Oliveira and not Simone whatsoever. Oh, by the way, the remaining pic will soon be deleted --all Simone´s fans want distance from WP. Can you point any, at least ONE, grammar / spelling diff? Lulu Margarida 02:32, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't just believe you. I checked other artists, like Madonna, to see what convention was used on their articles and followed suit. Collectonian 02:39, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

"Unreleased soap operas themes"??? Wow, there is a GIANT industry in Brazil that releases all these, you know, but that´s trivia, follow WP!! (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)Lulu Margarida 02:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

If they have been released to CD, the CDs should be listed, not just the songs. Collectonian 02:39, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

The cds are released. I think you should delete this as well. You still follow my tips? Why is that? Lulu Margarida 02:42, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Devil

Do you know what´s Devil´s brand, feature? He is totaly naive. Lulu Margarida 02:45, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

The real article

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Simone_Bittencourt_de_Oliveira&oldid=169994730 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lulu Margarida (talk • contribs) 16:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

what´s this crap they did ? gosh this real article to be foud on a discussion page is factual one. what´s left is bullshit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.241.105.3 (talk) 15:22, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Back to fancruft?

As of this edit, much of the content which was cut out by other editors has been restored by Lulu Margarida. Her edits include restoring the birth information which other editors considered trivial, and a world of fancruft, peacock words and original research. This is bad enough to the point where Margarida is lists over 20 names of famous people, claiming they are "friends and admirers" of the article's subject and lists a photo gallery of these figures in the same picture as Simone as a source. That's a first for me. Anyone else have any comments about this latest edit?--Dali-Llama 22:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, at least the birth trivia is gone. Thank you.--Dali-Llama 22:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree completely that it's a problem. There are huge chunks of opinionated text that have been readded that are not backed by citations. This article needs vast amounts of help. =/ Tony Fox (arf!) 22:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, given that the consensus is against inclusion of most of what she's restored, I'd propose that since we have three editors (myself, Tony and Collectonian) paying attention to this article besides Margarida, that all three of us revert to the last consensus version (I'd say it's this one]), and that if Margarida would like to include things, to do so in pieces and discuss it on the talk page beforehand. Otherwise, it'd be a never-ending revert war and completely disorganized. This is also a way to enforce WP:3RR, since we have multiple editors against the edits of a single editor.--Dali-Llama 23:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I´ve restored based on what was the latest edition. I carefully deleted all multiply sources and changed to Allmusic.com, Official site, Dictionaries, Encyclopedia, Terra Portal, Revista Veja. I also visited Madonna, Elvis, Bill Clinton , ELis Regina, Milton Nascimento and others to compare and see what they have and what I could publish. If you want to revise grmamar, spelling, that´s ok --but I´d like User:CmdrObot to do that, since he already knows the articcle and worked on it previously. If you´d like to delete refs. to the pic gallery that´s also fine. Lulu Margarida 23:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Others could be Steve Pereira, Arion. Lulu Margarida 23:49, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

It appears the image has been deleted or renamed on the Commons, so I've removed it from the current version. Otherwise, agreed, keep the fancruft out. If Margarida begins violating 3RR again, I say just report it and let the admins deal with it. Collectonian 00:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

On a sidenote to Ludovica, you don't get to "pick" who edits what. Saying that we should only edit grammar and spelling and leave content to CmdrObot or any one editor is a blatant display of ownership and implies that other editors are at best biased and at worst incompetent. I again strongly recommend you check your attitude at the door--you have three experienced editors saying your content is not fit for inclusion as submitted. If you have an issue with it, as I've told you many times, take it up to dispute resolution. If you continue, you risk breaking the 3RR rule and being blocked for a longer period of time.--Dali-Llama 03:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Lost in your own mess

After breaking all WP rules (ownership, personal attacks, lies, false summaries, inadequacy, unsorced) now the thief is back to the scene --to see the cracked scenario and try to clean its traces!

As you can see, you are lost in your own editions and now, although not to my surprise, you are shockingly LOST with your own grammar, spelling mess.

: "a recently established"!!! You want me t cite even more??? :O) kkkkk

the "edition" on left the side (Revision as of 00:21, 16 November 2007) is YOURS and it already has plenty of disruptive, misleading, tricky erros. Simone is famous for calling her lawyers as soon as she sees any damage to her image. I mean it: Watch out!

I would advice you to give up "editing" and confine your editions into that cut/paste/copy you so enthusiastically promoted. This is moving. Lulu Margarida 20:04, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

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