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Revision as of 22:43, 25 November 2007

Helou.

Workshop

/Foča massacres /Prijedor massacres /Lasva Valley ethnic cleansing /Template

happy to help

Hi dragon i'll keep an eye on your writing and try to help. But I've never been in Bosnia so may not be able to get everything correct, so if i'm not sure of something I will not change it. best regards Istanbuljohnm 16:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Welcome!

Hi! Welcome to Misplaced Pages. :) I would be glad to help with grammer or sentence structure anytime I can; although even as a native English speaker; I still make mistakes and errors on occassion! Take care. :) Gardenfli 18:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I will have you on my mind :)The Dragon of Bosnia 20:50, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Template

Please do not change my template. If you want to make ethnic template, you are welcome to do so, but not under "User_Bosniak". I am User_Bosniak, this is my template http://en.wikipedia.org/Template:User_Bosniak . Bosniak 00:35, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Update: I will let you have your old userbox. I am not in a mood to argue. If you are against Srebrenica genocide denial, you can use new userbox code Userbox: {{User Against Srebrenica Genocide Denial}} Bosniak 00:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

hi there (re Srebrenica article)

hi there (shall I call you 'Dragon'? :-)

Your input on the specifics of the genocide charges is much appreciated (by me, at least). However, I was just wondering if the paragraph you added to the 'background' section is really necessary? No offence at all; it's well written and everything, just that I think the article really needs some serious paring down and I'd suggest the information is pretty much already stated in the next paragraph (and with the hyperlink to both the Bosnian War and ethnic cleansing, it's easy enough for people to find out more on both topics).

Anyway, didn't want to just delete it without consulting you -- any thoughts? (I'll repost this over on the talk page, too, to see what anyone else thinks). Cheers Jonathanmills 12:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

hi (re Srebrenica)

hi there,

I don't want to get in an edit war with you over there, but using official names rather than common ones is just good encyclopedia policy (you could put 'also known as the...' if you think that's appropriate). I don't mind so much if you want to refer to the 'victims of the genocide' rather than 'victims of the massacre', but as I mentioned in my edit summary, we already use the term massacre as our first choice, so I think it's tidier to follow this all the way through the article. Cheers Jonathanmills 13:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The official name is: "Srebrenica-Potočari Memorial and Cemetery to Genocide Victims", not "Srebrenica-Potočari Memorial and Cemetery". So when you excluded some words, then it is not official any more, so it would be clever to use simple name: Srebrenica Genocide Memorial. If you want to use official names, the first thing should be to change Srebrenica massacre to Srebrenica genocide, because it is official now. But I think, that was not your real intention, it looked like an unnecessary camouflage to hide genocide term. I concluded this reading your talk page. The Dragon of Bosnia 13:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, even if that was my intention, which I don't think it was (I'm honestly a stickler for accuracy), that shouldn't really be the issue, which is, is it the correct name? I could as easily say that from reading your talk page, it seems to me your intention is to *mention* the word genocide -- it's no different.

Also, I didn't realise that was the full name '...to Genocide Victims' -- but if it is, then that is absolutely the name that should be used, in my opinion.

As for whether the whole article should be renamed, that's another thing entirely. (It's been hashed out ad nauseum before on the talk pages). But by your logic, because you don't like the name of the article, there's no reason for other things in the article to be accurately named. Jonathanmills 13:53, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

No, I just don't like people with hypocritical intentions. My intention is to write verified information by international courtes (ICTY and ICJ) in order to get relaible articles. Srebrenica Genocide is such term, such event verified by many courte verdicts. When I see Dilbertian arguments like yours, I am aware of your motive. But your deeds are yours, not mine. Do whatever you like. The Dragon of Bosnia 14:02, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Dude, I didn't write the title of the article, so I don't see how I'm being hypocritical. And I don't see how *your* intentions are any less relevant than mine -- in the end, it's about writing an accurate article, right?

By the way, I made a response to your comment over on my page, too -- hopefully (if you believe what I'm saying) you might see that I'm not indifferent to people who get killed just because it's a smaller number than the Holocaust (that would be ridiculous, because then I'd have to be indifferent to everything!)

I'm actually going to have to log off for the mo, but I'm happy to discuss things with you further -- actually I was going to log off 20 minutes ago before this whole thing started! Cheers Jonathanmills 14:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, one other thing, bro (sorry, just hopped on quick to do something else!) -- I mentioned the name of the memorial thing twice on the talk page (the first time at least a couple weeks ago), as in, 'does anyone know what the official name of this is?' Eventually I received a response from HanzoHattori. So it would be helpful if you joined the discussion page in future. Cheers Jonathanmills 15:48, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

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hi Dragon

hi Dragon, just to let you know I've responded to your points on the Srebrenica talk page. You'll see I'm happy to leave out the sentence you objected to (I actually had second thoughts about it myself), but I've reverted your other two changes, for the reasons I've outlined over there. Cheers. BTW, feel free just to call me 'Jonathan'. Jonathanmills 14:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Book

I am reading book Noel Malcolm :"Bosnia - a short history". This book is supported by UK which embassy has given book to knjižnice in Croatia. Example from book which can be interesting to your editing of Bosnia:

• Stojan Protić (prime minister of Yugoslavia 1918-20) : "When our army crosses Drina it will give the Turks 24 or 48 hours to return to faith of ancestors. Anyone who refuses is to be massacred, the way we did it before in Serbia"(source:Grmek et al., eds., Le Nettoyage ethnique). This words are from time before Yugoslavia is created (1917)
• Between 1910 and 1921 300 000 Muslims of Bosnia has died, been killed of left for Turkey (source: Tomasević, Peasant, Politics and Economic Change p. 225)
• Stevan Moljević Serbian lawyer from Banja Luka, political director of Četnik movement in 1943. He is writing in february 1942 :" Serbian land need to be extended all the way to Dalmatia, and that there should then follow the cleansing (čišćenje) of the land of all non Serb elements. The things to do would be to send offenders on their way. Croats to Croatia and Muslims to Albania or Turkey" (source Dedijer and Miletić: Genocid nad muslimanima). I am having enough edit wars with supporters of Greater Serbia which like part of Croatia so I am living this to you for use. If you want I have more similar things in that book. Rjecina 15:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the information, but I am not a good historian, I am interested in law and recent past of the Balkans (Wars in Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo) based on international verdicts. I am aware of chetnics in WWII and their war crimes, that is well documented in Tito's Yugoslav sources and court documents. I wish you luck with your edits, I would be glad to help you, but as I said that is just not my field. The Dragon of Bosnia 23:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

An apology

You're wright, Dragon.. ICTY said it was genocide in Srebrenica, but also said that Serbia wasn't guilty for that . My sarcastical comparison was supposed to be pointed out towards that ICTY's proclaiming someone "not guilty" in Srebrenica case, not towards denying of genocide in Srebrenica (I never wanted to deny it). I completely disagree with that ICTY's releasing of guilt; note my message "Thousands of Bos. Muslims killed, and not a genocide? Well, ICTY said it's not." (one more apology, to avoid misunderstandings: missing "s" for plural in "Thousand of ..." was a typo; it should stay "thousands" - I've corrected it now). I wanted to compare that decision in Srebrenica case (thousands of persons) with the decision regarding cases of killed Bos. Croat civilians and POW's (tens of persons by massacre), to show that theirs decisions aren't the most perfect ones.. Unfortunately, I was faster typer here, and I wrote incorrect information. My apologies to you and to all others. They were unintentional. I've also posted this message on the talkpage of the article List of war crimes. Kubura 11:33, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with ICJ. I agree with their decision that genocide happened in Srebrenica, and other mass crimes called crimes against humanty happened in the rest of Bosnia. I will not try to write that Serbia is guilty of genocide if it is not concluded by ICJ, but I could do that, there are hundreds of books about that, but this is encyclopedia and we must follow the rules if we don't want a chaos here with millions of massacres on all sides with no verification. The Dragon of Bosnia 14:00, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Something more. Report these IP-vandals to admins. They shoud be banned, not just blocked. We don't have to waste our creative energy on removing the garbage. Kubura 12:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

grammar check

will try to get to it -

keep up the good work

John

Thank you. The Dragon of Bosnia 10:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Your recent edits

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A report

Hi, Dragon.
React here, on the article Ahatovići massacre.
User:Paulcicero has inserted the tag "unreferenced" . Kubura 12:15, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Mostar

Please enter discussion on the Mostar subject, thanks. I'm sure we can resolve this matter amicably. DIREKTOR 01:55, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Bosnian Genocide request for mediation

Please see Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-11-23 Bosnian Genocide --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 19:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

cooperate on the Bosnian Genocide article

That is what we should do, not revert each other's versions. The newest version (mine) is perfectly fine, although the intro could be better rephrased. So work with me on protecting my version (which practically includes your version as well).Ancient Land of Bosoni (talk) 22:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)