Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 07:28, 28 November 2007

Refactoring and adding headings

I just reorgihnized the paragraph order and added osme headings. I probbly read the whoel three times while doing it but did not have time to read it start to finish after the last change so someone shoudl double check that I did not intoduce any forward or backward refrence problems by moving paragraphs around wholsale. I will give it another look tomorrow I hope. Dalf | Talk 03:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Sources - good use of figures, but need to be backed up!!! Needs some links to back these claims up!

Indian brain drain-what about it?

Canadian brain-drain

I think the section about rhetoric backfiring in Canada (recently removed) should be reworded more neutrally and placed into a separate section about brain drain and social policy. Planning to do that sometime this week. Novickas 16:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC) w where is indian brain drain llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll wahat the heck!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.71.27.133 (talk) 00:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Headline text

here is indian brain drain

South Africa

Brain drain is one of the biggest issues in SA since the end of Apartheid. Much of the current policy of the government is based on the concept of educating black SAfricans so that they may fill the positions vacated by white emigrants without a drop in standards. There needs to be a section on this, as it is a huge issue in an important country.

I will second the idea of adding a Brain drain section on South-Africa. The total number of emmigrants may be small on a global scale (about 1 Million emmigrants since 1994), but the fact this this represents about 20% of the white population and that these are usually the skilled top 20% does make this a significant issue.

Voice

This article is written largely in an odd voice. It seems like text copied from a non-encyclopedic source. The article relies heavily on a report, largely rearticulating it rather than treating the subject matter directly. Hopefully someone more familiar with the evolution of this article can work on it. Maybe someone more familiar with Misplaced Pages tagging can put some appropriate tag to draw attention to the need to revisit this article.

I'm going to watch this page to see what happens, to learn about this process. Christian Campbell 02:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Totally agree - this reads like a peer review of the World Bank report on brain drain, rather than an article actually about brain drain in its own right. I suspect it has been copied word-for-word from somewhere else. Needs total re-write. Andrew Oakley 16:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Confirmed - vast swathes of this article have been copied from this World Bank press release which is copyrighted. Will tag with WP:CP . Andrew Oakley 16:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Brain Grab

Removed from article:

Brain Grab

The term "brain grab" coined by Astrid Wood in 2007 refers to aggressive policies that entice young, educated talent to urban areas. The "Creative Class" is a term referring to the development of young, artistic individuals with means. The influx of the Creative Class increases spending and leads to general improvements. The fight over the "Creative Class" is an example of a brain grab.

Reason:

Searching for references on Google , yields zero results. The "Brain Grab" section was also not integrated with the rest of the article, but tacked on. If anybody finds a reference, and puts it back into the article, please integrate it more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.120.182.105 (talk) 08:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Edits by User:Badenoch

Many of the statements being made are highly subjective and controversial:

• Unskilled workers tend to be a net drain on the economy. They don't pay much tax, have high unemployment, have high social costs}, are difficult to educate and are predisposed to crime.

-Softened the paragraph to reflect the fiscal burden, without being specific about why they are a burden.

• The overall picture is bleak. Europe's birth rate is much too low.

-The Commissions has clearly chosen to present bleak statistics, so that they can get political support for policy changes. Their rather blunt description of migration patterns is very relevant to the topic of brain drain. This statement has been strengthened by quoting the Commission.

• To make matters even worse the unskilled immigrants that do come are a drain on the economy and are upsetting the public. If things don't improve, it will become difficult to convince voters that immigration is in their interests.

Softened to describe the problem of fiscal burden and left out comments about public anxiety.

Simply put, one cannot write such things on Misplaced Pages without extensive citations and in a neutral tone of voice. Since Badenoch has clearly put much effort into adding to this article, I invite him to contribute to this discussion to see how the information can be added without being (in my eyes) inflammatory making normative statements. Kelvinc (talk) 07:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

The deffinition of neutral view depends ones persective. It is my opinion that the European Commission represents is resonably central political view, and those with anti-immigration views are extreme, sometimes known as far-right political parties . Please understand that although these parties enjoy substantial political support, they are still a minority in most European countries.

All of the major arguments are referenced, mostly from the European Commission either directly or indirectly. You will notice that the European Commission front page on immigration polices touches on many of the core concepts presented. Other references are from statistical agencies, scientific jornals etc.Badenoch (talk) 01:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay. At least it's clear you're not using Misplaced Pages to push some sort of agenda, which is the general impression when you wrote that immigrants are predisposed to crime right beside an SVP election ad. But I suggest reading WP:NPOV and WP:OR.

The main issue I have with your contributions is not that I find the European Commission to be insufficiently "central", but that it only represents one point of view. Misplaced Pages seeks to present all perspectives, in a way that is relatively balanced and true to real-world levels of support in different opinions. Terms like "talented people" are subjective (better to state education levels). It's not exactly clear what is "bleak": your summary of what's happening in Europe may well be delightful to a Europhobe. If Europe will be poor and aging with crumbling infrastructure, just say so without adding emotional adjectives.

And the whole thing still reads a lot like a research paper, which we should be avoiding, instead of an encyclopedia article, which makes it read like original research. I'm not exactly sure how to fix this second issue, but I'm happy to see that we're collaborating to improve the article. Kelvinc (talk) 05:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Kelvinc personally I don't know any Europhobes, so I have no idea what delights them. However from your wikipage I notice that you are interested in Anglospherism (especially the White Commonwealth) and Sinospherism. These interests seem to have distinct racial/cultural undertones. A friend of mine informs me that there are websites that cater for these interests where people can freely debate racial/cultural issues. Perhaps these might be better at meeting your needs than wikipedia. Badenoch (talk) 07:28, 28 November 2007 (UTC)