Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:09, 12 December 2007

This user is very busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries.

This page is not a boxing ring

Free content images of British aristocracy

I've been putting the appallingly ugly Image:Replace this image1.svg on lots and lots of living biographies. It occurred to me that you write about a great many British aristocrats and also know a fair number of them. Would you be able to secure images of living ones under a free licence? Older images that would now be public domain in the UK? These would add very nicely to Misplaced Pages and to Wikimedia Commons - David Gerard 21:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Probably. But I shake a lot and it would take me some time. - Kittybrewster (talk) 21:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Kittybrewster, you could use a tripod for this task. --Tracey Lowndes 23:43, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that is a great idea, if your health permits. Maybe if you could bring the camera and get permission from the subjects, you might be able to volunteer (vt) others to acutally take the photo?

I have long had a notion of writing to all the party chief whips in Westminster and in the Oireachtas to ask them if they would release public domain (or at least GPL) images of their parliamentarians, because far too many of them have no photos on wikipedia. I'd love to see this sort of thing done much more widely, because a biographical article without a picture looks bare and incomplete. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I suspect my health does not permit. I had the latter idea too but you are the right person to implement it. - Kittybrewster (talk) 08:57, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about your health :( Anyway, it looks like I have volunteered myself to chase the politicians. Me and my big mouth :( Somehow I can't help thinking on my neighbour who did his national service in the 1950s and watched a few of his friends take a one-way ticket when they volunteered to go to Korea: he say that one of the fundamental rules every footsoldier in the British Army needs to learn is to never ever volunteer for anything. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Somehow I don't think you can analogize, considering. And I'd like to think they were being noble in volunteering and were hoping to set a noble example not have the non-volunteer-ers use them as an excuse to continue not volunteering. And I gather this is an assignment you'd like (one could argue if there are no images of aristocrats then those are not noteworthy ones and wiki may or may not be an illustrated Burke's.

Red box (government)

I reverted your edit to this article because it introduced two mis-spellings and an unsourced statement. You can put the bit about the hinges and the lock back in if you wish, although having a source for it would be nice (unless that info is already in the BBC article which is referenced.) Brianyoumans 18:45, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Ooops. Shaking. Will try to get photographic proof. - Kittybrewster (talk) 18:57, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Shaking results in unsourced statements? That's interesting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.66.177 (talk) 03:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

AN/I

Who is this seventeen year old, who was 'spoken to'? — Moe ε 18:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you speaking of the same person on the An/I discussion board, or the other incident? — Moe ε 18:39, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I haven't gotten the word back from them just yet, so I'll be inticipating it. Thank you. — Moe ε 18:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

someone deleted the page; I just undeleted it. DGG (talk) 18:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Hello

'ere Guv - you're posh - you must be a Jew-baiter! see here (one for reviewing rather than adding to, I suggest.)

Did you know that David Miliband's grandfather, a Polish Jew (/Jewish Pole) living in Warsaw, decided to join the Red Army during the Polish-Soviet War (1919 - 1921)? There were some pretty scathing comments about it on the 'Tabloidgraph's' web-site yesterday.--Major Bonkers (talk) 11:42, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

WP:COI as a descendant (through my father) of/from Ephraim_Lópes_Pereira_d'Aguilar,_2nd_Baron_d'Aguilar - Kittybrewster ☎ 11:55, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

That's my point too - the actuality is much more nuanced than these broad labels allow.--Major Bonkers (talk) 13:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

For sure. - Kittybrewster ☎ 20:07, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

A strange headline from the 'Tabloidgraph's' web-page: Tennis coach 'demanded lesbian sex'. Reminds me of the time I went to the co-op round the corner and asked for the same thing. I didn't get it (mores the pity).--Major Bonkers (talk) 15:36, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Please could you drop me an e-mail; I've had a lot of trouble with Hard Disks recently and have lost your address.--Major Bonkers (talk) 10:03, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Warranty jobs - complete replacement and loss of existing data <sigh>.--Major Bonkers (talk) 18:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Biography Newsletter 5

The Biography WikiProject Newsletter Volume IV, no. 4 - September 2007
Project News The three-month long Summer Assessment Drive, organized by Psychless, was a huge success! It ran from June 1 – September 1, and reduced the backlog of unassessed articles from 113,385 to 56,237. In all, over 100,000 articles were assessed. Over 60 people contributed in some way. A barnstar has been created for exceptional work on Misplaced Pages biographies and for assisting the project. The Biography Barnstar is listed with the other WikiProject awards and can be awarded easily with a template. See the template page for more details. Member News Congratulations to the editors who worked on the newest featured biographies: Augustus; William Shakespeare; Adriaen van der Donck; Alfred Russel Wallace; Alison Krauss; Anne Frank; Anne of Denmark; Asser; Bart King; Bill O'Reilly; Bobby Robson; Bradley Joseph; CM Punk; Ceawlin of Wessex; Colley Cibber; Cædwalla of Wessex; Dominik Hašek; Elizabeth Needham; Frank Macfarlane Burnet; Georg Cantor; Gregory of Nazianzus; Gunnhild Mother of Kings; Gwen Stefani; Hannah Primrose, Countess of Rosebery; Harriet Arbuthnot; Harry S. Truman; Henry, Bishop of Uppsala; Héctor Lavoe; Ine of Wessex; Ion Heliade Rădulescu; Jack Sheppard; Jackie Chan; Jay Chou; John Martin Scripps; John Mayer; Joseph Francis Shea; Joshua A. Norton; Kate Bush; Kazi Nazrul Islam; Kevin Pietersen; Martin Brodeur; Mary Martha Sherwood; Mary of Teck; Maximus the Confessor; Miranda Otto; Muhammad Ali Jinnah; P. K. van der Byl; Penda of Mercia; Pham Ngoc Thao; Rabindranath Tagore; Ramón Emeterio Betances; Red Barn Murder; Richard Hakluyt; Richard Hawes; Robert Garran; Roman Vishniac; Ronald Niel Stuart; Ronald Reagan; Roy Welensky; Rudolph Cartier; Samuel Adams; Samuel Beckett; Sarah Churchill, Duchess of Marlborough; Sarah Trimmer; Sargon of Akkad; Shen Kuo; Sophie Blanchard; Stereolab; Sydney Newman; Sylvanus Morley; Tim Duncan; Timeline of Mary Wollstonecraft; Uncle Tupelo; Waisale Serevi; Wallis, Duchess of Windsor; Walter Model; William Bruce; William Goebel; Yagan; Zhou Tong; Æthelbald of Mercia; Æthelbald of Mercia New Members Congratulations to our 225 new members	From the Editors The newsletter is back! Many things have gone on during the past few months, but many things have not. While the assessment drive helped revitalize the assessment department of the project, many other departments have received no attention. Most notably: peer review and our "workgroups". A day long IRC meeting has been planned for October 13th, with the major focus being which areas of the project are "dead", what should our goals be as a project, and how to "revive" the dead areas of our project. Contribute to the discussion on the the new channel (see below) We decided to deliver this newsletter to all project members this month but only those with their names down here will get it delivered in the future. This is your newsletter and you can be involved in the creation of the next issue. Any and all contributions are welcome. Simply let yourself be known to any of the undersigned or post news on the next issue's talk page New irc channel Lastly, a new WikiProject Biography channel has been set up on the freenode network: #wikipedia-en-bio Our thanks to Phoenix 15 for setting it up. Contributors to this Issue Psychless (talk · contribs) Phoenix 15 (talk · contribs)
Complete To Do List Write an article Expand an article about: a person an actor an animator an artist a bishop a businessperson a diplomat an educator an engineer a lawyer a military person a musician a photographer a saint a politician a scientist a sportsperson a writer Improve an article by: adding references adding categories Review an article Romano Volta • Suzanne Carrell • Mullá Husayn • John Gilchrist (linguist) • Thomas Brattle • Answer requests for comments Work on the Portal Portal:Biography Assess an article Assessment requests Unassessed articles Assessment Progress Biography articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Core Other ??? Total FA 35 1,640 1,675 FL 205 205 FM 633 633 A 1 132 133 GA 41 8,421 8,462 B 99 40,837 40,936 C 33 173,713 173,746 Start 1 768,094 768,095 Stub 1 1,030,600 1 1,030,602 List 8,185 8,185 Category 394,533 394,533 Disambig 41,866 41,866 File 31,773 31,773 Project 251 251 Redirect 1 46,932 46,933 Template 20,959 20,959 NA 426 426 Assessed 212 2,569,200 1 2,569,413 Unassessed 23,579 23,579 Total 212 2,592,779 1 2,592,992 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 10,858,750 Ω = 5.37
We couldn't do it without you!

To receive this newsletter in the future, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated R Delivery Bot 15:42, 7 October 2007 (UTC) .

di

Hi, I'm not sure which image you are referring to, but I believe it is one of a couple hundred family crests that were uploaded by a user that has since been banned for indefinitely blocked for persistent copyright infringement. The images are copyrighted depictions of family crests. -- But|seriously|folks  16:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Returning the serve

Plenty of room for improvement on Keith Mant, an article which nobody reading this page would have expected me to write, including myself! One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 02:30, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Kittybrewster

Looking through my albums I came across a photo which I have added to the page you created for Kittybrewster. Hope you like it! Regards, David Lauder 12:10, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Lords of France

You have contributed at the CFD for Category:Lords of France here. The subcats have been deleted, and Category:Lords of France is being held for cleanup until Nov 5. I was wondering if you'd like to help with the cleanup, as I don't have a lot of experience prod'ing articles. Thanks, and sorry for the cut-and-paste. --Kbdank71 15:50, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles closed

The above named Arbitration case has closed. The Arbitration Committee decided that ny user who hereafter engages in edit-warring or disruptive editing on these or related articles may be placed on Misplaced Pages:Probation by any uninvolved administrator. This may include any user who was a party to this case, or any other user after a warning has been given. The Committee also decided to uplift Vintagekits' indefinite block at the same time.

The full decision can be viewed here.

For the Arbitration Committee, Daniel 08:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Rather a waste of time, in my opinion. I suspect that you might be interested in this. --Major Bonkers (talk) 14:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

And also this.--Major Bonkers (talk) 17:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I think all of us should stand. Regards, David Lauder 18:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Giano's ideas are really good, I think, and would certainly improve the project. I'm just not convinced he would have any credibility passing judgment on the civility of others considering his own record at ArbCom and since. He says he would mind his tongue if he was elected, which is a step forward I suppose, but begs the question of why he doesn't consider it appropriate to do so now. Still, I think I will observe his record over the next month or so before deciding whether he will get my !vote. Rockpocket 18:25, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Barons coronet

Hallo, svg version of Lord-red.png is by another User just uploaded. I have svg too for my picture Lord.png today uploaded (Lord.svg)

Regards

Steifer 17:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank You for suggestion. I try making a new, correctly version of my coronets pictures in next free time.

I just make correction in chevalier helmet. This helmet related to polisch heraldry, and is realy similiar as marquis helmet in frech heraldy, regards Steifer 20:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:BIO

Please note that the "list pages" and "results pages" you refer to are the result of extended discussions on afd and related forums. There is a standing consensus that such pages are acceptable, and should not be deleted. (Please note also that redirects are not held to the same standard as full-scale bio pages.)

I hope my position on this matter isn't coming off as hostile -- I'm simply puzzled as to why a harmless redirect would be targeted for deletion. CJCurrie 21:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The "list pages" were designed in late 2004 (or perhaps it was early 2005, I can't recall offhand) as the result of extensive discussions on the best way for Misplaced Pages to provide information about unsuccessful candidates, while still respecting the intent of WP:BIO. It's true that I played a role in these discussions, but the decision enjoys wide support among interested parties and has already survived several attempts to revisit the issue. I've played a major role in creating the "list pages", but I'm not the sole contributor to them.

I don't believe it would accord with basic fairness to advocate the mass removal of information that was added in good faith, and in accordance with consensus opinion as to its relevance. CJCurrie 04:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Rose Dugdale

Thanks, she's definitely one of the more interesting people I've written about that's for certain! I don't suppose you want the Last Curtsey book? It's of no use to me now, but I'm thinking it might have some good info for the articles you work on? There's all sorts of people in there from the "class of 58" like Sally Croker-Poole. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 14:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Almost the British Patricia Campbell Hearst! --Counter-revolutionary 14:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Naming of baronet articles

Hi Kittybrewster, I was asked on my talk page to take a look at some page moves you did recently, and I see some renaming of baronet articles which don't look right to me.

For example, Boyle Roche was move to Sir Boyle Roche, 1st Baronet without any apparent need to disambiguation, and the same applies to Sir Philip Colfox,1st Baronet, Sir Edward Bradford, 1st Baronet and others. I thought that I had spotted in the list one "firstname surname" which is now a disambiguation page, but I can't find it again.

As I think you know, I would prefer that for the sake of clarity all articles on baronets were named "Sir X Y, nth Baronet"; but a proposal to change the guideline didn't get consensus support, and WP:NCNT currently permits the longer format only where there is a need to disambiguate.

Please may I ask you to review those page moves against the guidance at WP:NCNT? Thanks! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Noted. I am also conscious of Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Troubles/Proposed_decision#Tit_for_tat and have no plans to focus my attentions on boxers. I expect you had Andrew Clark in mind but there are others. Perfecting Misplaced Pages takes time. - Kittybrewster ☎ 17:35, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed it does take time to achieve perfection, but restoring articles to the naming format required by the guidelines doesn't take much time :) So please can you list which of the names you believe are actually ambiguous and revert the other moves? I don't for example, see any ambiguity in respect of Boyle Roche or Philip Colfox. I am prepared to go through the list myself and revert those for whom there is no apparent need for disambiguation, but I'd prefer to hear your reasons first and to give you time to produce evidence of any ambiguity you have noticed.

I have strongly urged Vintagekits to get off your case, and I sincerely hope that he follows that advice, but if we are going to avoid these issues becoming another big point of conflict it is also important that a resulting absence of outside scrutiny should not lead to breaches of the guidelines without good reason for each exception. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:25, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Reduction

Kitty, you may recall some months back the discussion about the Lauder baronetcy and the contestation of the 1st baronet's patent. I see that James Cunningham, 7th Earl of Glencairn brought an Action of Reduction in precedence matters. I assume this is the same as the Action of Reduction Lord Fountainhall successfully brought against his father's first patent. Regards, David Lauder 09:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Sounds right. - Kittybrewster ☎ 10:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Template:S-herald and orders of chivalry in general...

...have nothing to do with each other. From my brief search, it appears that when you created this template you only had proper heraldic offices in mind, namely offices of Kings of Arms, heralds, and pursuivants. Which is the one view that finds me perfectly agreeable. The header, however, is being seriously misused, and has been for some time now. That is, people seem to think that "heraldic" means "connected to knights, orders, and that sort of thing". Would you know anything about this situation, and how it has come to be? I want to be completely sure that I am doing the right thing when trying to enforce the substitution of s-herald with s-hon for order Grand Masters and the like a little more stringently than now. Really, I am tired of doing the same substitutions over and over again.

By the way, nice to meet you, Kittybrewster. Where have my manners gone, really? Waltham, The Duke of 17:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

How do you do again. We have met before some long time since. Yes, I was using s-herald only for heraldic offices which had predecessors and successors. I am sorry hoi poloi have misappropriated it. - Kittybrewster ☎ 08:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

So far, so good. Now, I should like to know what you think about which header should be used for the offices in question. S-hon? Another header? A new header, perhaps? In my opinion, orders of knighthood are pretty much honorary as they are, and so it follows that any offices within them are honorary as well. Which is why I support the (or, should I say, "my"?) current practice of using s-hon.

By the way, I did not immediately remember the other time we met. Have you dyed your hair? It would be enough to disorientate me. :-) Waltham, The Duke of 18:48, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I would go with s-hon. They are not heralds. No; it is still tartan. - Kittybrewster ☎ 21:04, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Duly noted. Thank you for your advice. Keep it up (the hair)! Waltham, The Duke of 12:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Template:Rayment-hc

What is the purpose of this template?Geni 16:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Many pages are created (in whole or in part) from the website that Rayment runs. On which there is information about peers, baronets, parliamentarians, privy councillors and others. This template refers the reader to one section of that site. - Kittybrewster ☎ 16:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

But since that website isn't under the GFDL that creates copyright issus.Geni 17:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The original template was Rayment is an English surname of Old Norman origin. It derives from the given name Raymond. Notable people with the surname include:

• Alan Rayment (1928–2020), English cricketer
• Doug Rayment (1910–1978), Australian rules footballer
• Ivan Rayment, British molecular biologist and crystallographer
• Joe Rayment (footballer, born 1906) (1906–1969), English footballer
• Joe Rayment (footballer, born 1934) (1934–2019), English footballer
• Kenneth Rayment (1921–1958), British pilot
• Pat Rayment (born 1965), English former football player and manager
• Paul Rayment (born 1965), South African cricketer
• Ricky Rayment, English television personality (born 1990)
• Tarlton Rayment (1882–1964), Australian artist, author, broadcaster, poet, naturalist, entomologist and beekeeper

References

1. "Surname Database: Rayment Last Name Origin".

This template should be used only in the article (main) namespace.. I know Rayment has agreed to wikipedia using his site as a secondary source. I do not know what sources he used. I think I am not the person to be discussing this with. - Kittybrewster ☎ 17:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

So why not just use normaly refing format.Geni 18:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with rayment-hc being reformatted (if that is the right word) to turn it into a {{cite web}}: Empty citation (help). - Kittybrewster ☎ 18:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Kittybrewster created {{Rayment-hc}} as a more specific version of {{Rayment}}. Ideally, those templates will eventually be replaced with more fully-formatted references, but in the meantime they serve a very useful purpose in identifying a source. Rather than removing the template, I suggest that it would be a good idea for editors to replace it with more specific inline citations, but that work will take time, and there are a lot of articles involved.

I also don't see any copyright problem, regardless of whether Leigh Rayment has given consent. Rayment has published lists, and those are used as one source in biographical articles. Common practice, I thought? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Brookeborough

Thanks for your edits. He's quite an interesting chap. --Counter-revolutionary 11:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

New massacre category

Hi KB, I've started a discussion here on the usage of the category you've created today. Think this might become an issue with Troubles articles, so better to discuss it now I think. Stu 12:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I see it's your turn this week.--Major Bonkers (talk) 11:35, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

The magical world of Wiki. A wholly different planet. - Kittybrewster ☎ 12:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

The problem occurs when editors start to WP:OWN not just 'their' articles, but also the User space pages of their friends, and, indeed, the whole project, laying down the law, helpfully or not, to everyone else. (Personal opinion - doesn't call for a reply!)--Major Bonkers (talk) 13:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

My turn this week. So it goes!--Major Bonkers (talk) 11:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Talk:William Onslow, 6th Earl of Onslow

Could you look at this or point me in the right direction? Aatomic1 (talk) 12:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Thank you Aatomic1 (talk) 14:42, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

A question of identification

In the list of players in the 1875 FA Cup Final, we find "Sir James Stronge". Have you any notion which of the baronets this was? Choess (talk) 18:44, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Sir James Stronge, 5th Baronet. - Kittybrewster ☎ 21:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Royalty-nobility

See reply at User talk:BrownHairedGirl#Royalty_-_Nobility_-_Peerage, and some data for you to work with at User:Kittybrewster/Royalty-nobilty intersect and User:Kittybrewster/Royalty-nobilty intersect talkpages.

Hope this helps! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:18, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

List of Parkinson's disease patients

Are you going to source all those names in the near future? Otherwise I will remove them again in the near future. They have been tagged as unsourced for almost a year now. Garion96 (talk) 19:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

The refs are on the pages of the articles. - Kittybrewster ☎ 19:59, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I checked some, and they are not referenced. Besides, a list is a stand alone article in many regards and does not depend on the actual articles for the facts stated in the list. See also WP:LIST#List_content. Garion96 (talk) 20:04, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I checked the first and found a reference immediately. That will apply to most of them. - Kittybrewster ☎ 20:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Michael Redgrave, Terry-Thomas and Edward Winter. A random three I picked, no sources. Either way, feel free to reference the entries, if they are not sourced within a certain period of time I will remove them again. Garion96 (talk) 20:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Just a link to IMDB.com is pointless, plus even the actual actor page would not be considered a reliable source. Look at List of HIV-positive people for an example of a list like this with reliable sources. Garion96 (talk) 20:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I searched google for "Parkinson's Terry Thomas" and the other two you mentioned and started at the beginning of the list. So far, no problems sourcing each. Waste of time responding to my talk page - it doesn't achieve the object. I expect there is a name for editors who prompt other people without doing the research themselves. I guess it is sort of useful in achieving the objectives. - Kittybrewster ☎ 21:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Besides the fact I completely sourced all the living people from this list, plus sourced the List of people with multiple sclerosis, List of people diagnosed with dyslexia List of people diagnosed with Crohn's disease List of people diagnosed with cystic fibrosis and made List of HIV-positive people a featured list. Other than that, you are completely correct.... Sometimes it is better to start from scratch and demand sources from new entries. Especially since I don't feel like cleaning every list like this, and no one else seems to be doing it. But yes, the objective is a sourced list, that seems to be coming along nicely. Garion96 (talk) 21:27, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your positive contributions. - Kittybrewster ☎ 22:00, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Kitty, if you'll forgive me for poking my big nose in here, I think that Garion is right. WP:V says that "the burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material". Devices such as {{fact}} or {{unreferenced}} are a good way of reminding editors to reference things, but as WP:V notes, the alternative is to remove unreferenced material.

Well done adding all the refs: everything now seems to be referenced. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Forgiven. I didn't accuse him of being wrong. I was hoping he might assist - which you actively do do. almost all referenced; I grew tired and shakey. - Kittybrewster ☎ 11:04, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that. You should never feel at all guilty for being unable to deal with something immediately; nothing here is pressing enough to prevent an editor from taking a break when needed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I wasn't going to remove them again in a few hours. I was more thinking of a couple of weeks. I expanded some of the references and will work some more later. I did removed the imdb references. IMDB can't, besides film facts, be used as a reliable source for this kind of info. Garion96 (talk) 12:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Katherine Plunket

Hi Kitty

Can you perhaps help with a genealogical question relating to Katherine Plunket?

As you may have seen, her article was started by the supercentenarian crew because she is is the longest-lived Irish person ever, and it was one of their better articles (notability quite well-established). I took to tidying up the article, and found that not only is she noteworthy in other respects, but that although she appears in no way related, she has close connections to the families of both my parents, which whetted my interest. (She turns out to be only three degrees of separation from me, the same distance as a vertically-challenged Frenchman and one more than someone who was not amused).

However, her article is unsatisfactory in regard to the ancestry of her mother, Louise Jane Foster. The article currently has her down as a daughter of John William Foster, Speaker of the Irish House of Commons, but I can't verify this (I'm not even sure what was the middle name of John Foster, 1st Baron Oriel). There were several politically active John Fosters, all around that time, all closely related, and the sources in the article don't conform which one.

The handy thing is that her family had enough titles that she was apparently listed in Debretts etc, so those sources should be enough to unravel this. Would you perhaps be able to check in your sources where she fits into the Foster family?

Thanks. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:22, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Hunting about. I think John Foster, 1st Baron Oriel had no middle name and is not John William Foster. The JWF in question is son of John Foster of Dunleer. I have corrected the article. As you say, there were several John Fosters who were MP for Dunleer. What does Volunteer mean in the context of JWF? - Kittybrewster ☎ 12:21, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Charles George Arbuthnot

Hi Kitty,

I am confused as to why you reverted my edit of the aforementioned article. A link to a disambiguation page at the top of an article should only exist on the one article that would be found if the general term was typed into the search bar. As Charles Arbuthnot does not redirect to Charles George Arbuthnot, a link to Charles Arbuthnot (disambiguation) should not exist at the top of Charles George Arbuthnot. If we were to do so, we would have to put links to the disambiguation page on all articles that have entries on that disambiguation page. This is neither helpful nor necessary. If you disagree, please begin a discussion on the WP:MOSDAB talk page.

Neelix (talk) 14:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

James Arbuthnot

If I may suggest, you and VK ought to know better. I suggest that discussing it on talk:James Arbuthnot may be a good approach? ++Lar: t/c 23:26, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

You're about to hit the WP:3RR buffers on this one - could I suggest leaving it and letting someone else sort it out? I have no desire at all to block either you or VK on this but if this carries on, I won't hesitate to do it. — iridescent 00:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. But I wish whoever sorts it would (a) read "Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately" (b) read the source reference which does not say Soames said that (c) consider whether this is unencyclopedic and/or POV (d) consider that I am being accused of OWN (it is not my article), COI (I am bound to revert stuff I know to be nonsense) and OR (none on my part). - Kittybrewster ☎ 00:41, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Sticking my oar in, see also: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Troubles#Principles; esp. 4 and 5.--Major Bonkers (talk) 10:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Especially number five. David Lauder (talk) 16:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

And which one of these princples do you think applies? I made referenced edits - amended them as requested by Rockpocket - then backed off for a week, to allow the article to be improved, despite provoking edits from Kb - then returned and more information to the article and more references. Now contrast that with Kb's behaviour over this issue! --Vintagekits (talk) 10:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

"behaviour" is an interesting word. It is only used by blaming people who always find fault in others and never take responsibility for their actions. - Kittybrewster ☎ 15:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Vintagekits. Do not post on my talk page. - Kittybrewster ☎ 15:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Neither Vintagekits nor Kittybrewster should be making any edits to James Arbuthnot. Kb has a clear COI, and Vintagekits efforts to seek out and include trivial sketchwriter's criticism of Kb's brother look far too much like a form of attack as part of the old animosity (as evidenced by this edit summary). I would support an immediate article ban for of them, followed by probation (per Arbcom Remedies 3.2) if there is any recurrence from either party. It's mind-boggling that either of these editors allowed this situation to occur only 2 months after the Arbcom closed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Also, of course, the title of Major Ron's autobiography (ghost-written with Jilly Cooper).--Major Bonkers (talk) 10:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

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