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Barnstars and related

• Please do not feed the trolls
• The Original Barnstar For being bold and because I can't believe you haven't got one yet! Sophia 16:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
• The E=mc² Barnstar You might not know me, but I know you. I've seen you editing articles about evolution, and I just wanted to say thank you so much for contributing so much to Evolution articles and reverting vandalism and original research, among other things. I love you! Keep up the good fight! Ķĩřβȳ♥♥♥ŤįɱéØ 17:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• The Undeniable Mechanism Award For arguing the undeniable mechanism, upholding intellectual rigour, and expanding evolution topics, it is my pleasure to pin this badge upon your most evolved chest. Samsara (talk • contribs) 08:51, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• The Original Barnstar For your dedicated work on scientific articles, keeping the pseudo out of science, I hereby award you, Orangemarlin, this Barnstar. Your work on Good and Featured articles like Evolution and Minoan eruption has greatly improved Misplaced Pages. Thank you. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:20, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
• To Orangemarlin for exceptional work on herpes zoster. JFW | T@lk 10:50, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
• You are retentive and obsesive. Now have a cookie. Tim Vickers 23:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)]]
• For unbelievable efforts to bring Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event to FA status. Filll 22:53, 4 September 2007 (UTC) For unbelievable efforts to bring Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event to FA status. Filll 22:53, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
• Have a squeaky rubber Tiktaalik for services to mass extinctions! Thanks for your persistence and hard work, .. dave souza, talk 20:25, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
• The Original Dinosaur Barnstar
  For all your work on Petey, Holly, Katie, and hundreds of other articles. Happy 10,000th edit! Firsfron of Ronchester 06:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
• Thanks for being an ultraviolet ray of sunshine on Misplaced Pages, energetically fighting for encyclopedic standards while not letting yourself or your good humour be censored. ¶ dorftrottel ¶ talk ¶ 14:19, December 5, 2007
• Congratulations!--Filll (talk) 00:06, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Scary articles

Below are articles articles, mostly medical but some in the sciences, that promote ideas or POV's that might endanger human life. Feel free to add your own, but I'm watching and cleaning up these articles. Please sign if you add something.

• List of medicinal herbs-lacks any references, and implies these drugs can help.Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
• Herbalism-same as above Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
• Homeopathy-ridiculous Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
• Attachment therapy-don't let your children go there Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC) This has been rewritten since User:AWeidman (Dr Becker-Weidman) and his 6 socks were indef banned. Fainites 16:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
• Medicinal plants of the American West-more unsourced POV edits Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
• Alternative medicine-more of the same Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
• Naturopathic medicine-Actually not completely off the wall, but some parts are bad. Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
• Er, Duesberg hypothesis and poppers could both use more work, and talk about endangering lives... especially the former. MastCell 18:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
• I'd also add ephedra to the list... I did a lot of work cleaning it up and it's not so bad anymore (it actually references the serious harms and deaths associated with ephedra supplements in a way that goes beyond referring to the FDA as jackbooted thugs, now). But much of the same material is duplicated in ECA stack, which I haven't been as successful with, and which I fear gives an erroneous impression as to the safety record of ephedra-containing dietary supplements. MastCell 19:20, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
• Arguably, Reflexology, though that's probably not actually dangerous, just ridiculously oversold. Adam Cuerden 00:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
• Vaccine controversy. Anti-vaxers are really dangerous. -- Fyslee / talk 08:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
• Hulda Clark. A dangerous scam. -- Fyslee / talk 08:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
• Gary Null. Advocates nonsense. -- Fyslee / talk 08:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
• Joseph Mercola. Advocates nonsense and repeated run ins with the FTC. -- Fyslee / talk 08:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
• rebirthing, reparenting, Power therapies. Primal Scream therapy. I would treat Neurolinguistic Programming as the main hub for many of them though. Its a subject that seems to be the main pseudoscientific umbrella that is used by most of them to give the false impression of scientific appearance. Its incredibly widespread and extremely misleading to the less scientifically literate. Here is a good source; . Phloem (talk) 05:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

In case you're bored...

Check out this edit. It's been fun!!!!  :) OrangeMarlin 06:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi OM!

Happy 10k! What a great milestone! :)

Firsfron of Ronchester 06:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC) ]]

Congratulations, and, uncharacteristically, it wasn't a vitriolic post to a Christian user on a user or talk page. Make No Name (talk) 17:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Pardon? OM's pretty much an equal opportunity editor when it comes to vitriol -- if you deserve it, you get it. While we're at it though, since you singled out the Paulists, is it safe to assume that vitriol leveled at Muslims, Buddhists, Siks, Hindus and so on would be okey-dokey? •Jim62sch• 19:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Interestingly, how could someone who registered their account on December 7, 2007, know anything about what I have or haven't done? I actually don't leave vitriol on any user talk page about Christians, unless they try to shove their mythology down my throat. Oops. That might be vitriolic. Does anyone else smell a sock? OrangeMarlin 19:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's rather pungent and I detect the odor of Trichophyton rubrum: does that make it a sock? No doubt that is it is it's a holey one ... er, I mean holy one. •Jim62sch• 19:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

In the interest of accuracy, let it be noted that our negative namemaker friend referred to "a vitriolic post to a Christian user". Though why there should be any objection to such posts to people who use Christians is beyond me. Wonder who they are – the DI certainly fit the description... Anyway, congrats to OM, relax and enjoy that bevvy. .. dave souza, talk 21:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Herpes zoster

Is a very good article. I learnt something from it and I have been in the business a long time. I thought you might move History back. I put it at the top of Rotavirus and Hepatitis B virus and no-one has told me off yet. (Still time). In my humble opinion, I would get the various names of the wretched virus over and done with somewhere near the top and then just stick to virus from then on. It never changes - always the same virus. The article FA will get my support eventually because it has enlightened me, and, for me, that's more than enough. But I am not going to be first to show support because I am a known Newbie and the Wiki folk who evaluate the article know this. Best of luck to you--GrahamColm 21:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Orangemarlin, I just spotted your discussion on Sandy's talk page. As you may have noticed, I've gone through the refs, adding URLs to free online journals, fixing punctuation, ndashes, etc. I believe the convention is to not add URLs for paid-for journal articles (the DOI or PMID will do). Diberri's tool is great if you like the templates, but I suspect the finer points of URLs are beyond it (e.g., if there are two free sources, as is often the case if the article is also at PubMedCentral). As for DOI, I've always found it redundant if you have a PMID. Following a link to an abstract is more useful than a page demanding money. If I get time, I'll review the article text. I think it needs some work, but nothing you can't fix I'm sure. Colin° 23:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

doi's usually just point to abstracts, not paid-for journals. PMID is a very poor tool for non-medical science journals, where I mostly spend my time. That's why I'm looking for a doi tool. OrangeMarlin 00:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

et al

Have a look at Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style (medicine-related articles)#Citing medical sources. In keeping with WP's relaxed attitude to formatting citations, this doesn't force any particular convention. It mentions the two common medical styles (AMA/Vancouver), which both limit author lists to six before worrying about et al. I prefer the Vancouver style of six, then et al rather than hacking back to three. Currently, Herpes zoster appears a little undecided, with examples of both. If you really prefer the full list, I can't see any reason to object. A really long list of authors is distracting and hard to read IMO. Whatever you decide, the article should be consistent. Colin° 07:06, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'm going to admit a high level of anality (is that a word?) with regards to author lists. I like knowing if a critical author is involved with the article. In fact, the 9th or 10th author in one reference is a well-known individual in the study of Herpes zoster. But, seriously, I don't think I'd get worked up one way or another.  :) OrangeMarlin 01:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I only shorten them to conserve space and follow convention; please revert me if you want them back. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:58, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Can I revert just to be mean and curmudgeonly? OrangeMarlin 02:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

No. Reverts must be done with an edit summary that includes WP:Something, and we don't yet have WP:CURMUDGEON. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, then Misplaced Pages just isn't very useful. I quit.  :) OrangeMarlin 02:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

lysine

No, you're not a "complete idiot" but I was surprised that you would use a such a lame and "peripherally related" study.

I've got a whole bunch of comments on the article, and I'm only 2/3 through. I'm unsure whether to add them to the FAC, the talk page or your talk page. I've every confidence that you'll be able to address or rationally ignore my queries/suggestions. Where would you like me to dump them? Can you let me know ASAP? Colin° 18:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

OK. I've dropped them on the HZ talk page. Don't feel you have to cross them all off. A suggestion may be misguided or your different opinion equally valid. Hope you find it useful. Colin° 18:26, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Wrt your reputation on complementary medicine, I wondered if ref 2 (Weaver 2007) was a private joke? You only use it once and could have used any number of other sources for that sentence. My lay impression from skimming it is that it is actually quite a good and up-to-date review that could have been used more. It is in the Journal of the American Osteopathic Association. Colin° 18:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

This edit seems to have merged two refs and linked the wrong URL to the ref. JFW has since removed the URL, but I wonder now whether the text<-->source(s) match is correct. Colin° 00:10, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

With regards to Weaver, Osteopathy, to me, is a perfectly respectable group. They attend a "medical school", are licensed to dispense medication (at least here in California), have to go through residency. I do not consider them "alternative", just plain old medicine. Definitely not a private joke, and actually the article is quite good. With regards to the edit, apparently I was trying to clean up the reference (once again, my anality does not like the vertical references). OrangeMarlin 00:20, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

You called my lysine reference lame. I'm in tears :( OK, I had a hard time finding anything remotely related to zoster. In fact, the lame reference actually made reference to zoster that it might work too. That was why I used it. OrangeMarlin 21:07, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

You're a big boy. You can take it. I admit, I didn't read the article, just the abstract. I'm sure you are well aware that a subjective questionnaire is just the sort of "evidence" your friends at homoeopathy like to (ab)use. I had a dig around, as best I could, and found a few reviews in the alternative-medicine journals that, well, I was less than confident in using. I also looked up various clinical guidelines but couldn't find much on HZ. The review I found was just what I was looking for. Evidence based, cited papers that showed positive and negative findings. Didn't say it was all bollocks; just that there wasn't good evidence yet. Your paper's second author was the late RS Griffith, who apparently got the lysine idea from noticing cold sores were more common after Christmas and Easter (chocolate). Lysine was his baby, which is all the more reason to avoid primary sources in this case, don't you think. His opinion that it might work for zoster too would, I fear, be no more than an educated guess, and a tainted one at that. Colin° 22:49, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I got over pretty quickly. LOL. I head over to Charles Darwin and beat up a POV vandal to feel better. Are you serious about what started this whole idea about lysine was chocolate? Does chocolate block lysine uptake? Well, the things you learn on Misplaced Pages. BTW, I hope you mean my "friends" at Homeopathy in a wholly sarcastic manner? OrangeMarlin 22:56, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

FAC

I've left some comments on Graham's talk page; I assume you're watching. Don't lose heart. I hope I get some time to help tomorrow, but for now, time for bed... Colin° 22:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

tools for checking refs?

Hi, I think i saw some back 'n forth between you 'n Sandy 'n Colin about tools for checking references... I would be very interested in learning anything you've learned (both now & in the future). Thanks! Ling.Nut (talk) 01:06, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind me butting in here. There are two great tools for checking references. The first, older one, is user:Gimmetrow's Reference Fixer, located here. The talk page has instructions on how to install and use it. It is a wonderful tool for fixing the punctuation so that it precedes the footnote. It also moves citation needed and other such tags to the end of a sentence, all automated. The second, brand-new tool is Dispenser's Linkchecker, which is causing quite a stir on FAC. It uses spider software to search for dead links and references in FACs. It can also be used manually to check individual articles. The link to the spider version for FAC is here. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again! Those both look like very good tools. Will check them out... Ling.Nut (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 07:52, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

You do know I was just joshing, right? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:19, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

We didn't know you had a sense of humor?????  :) OrangeMarlin 01:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Question

I have had the time to read the article http://en.wikipedia.org/Complementary_and_alternative_medicine and your comments on Fyslee's talk page. Do you have any idea why this article, since it's a duplication of other articles, has not been deleted? --CrohnieGal 12:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't thought of it. It appears that it is an attempt to start a new article that totally lacks scientific criticism. It's almost like the Creatiionists creating (pun intended) Intelligent design as a method to make it sound scientific. In the case of CAM, they're trying to follow the lead of the new NIH group (I think called NCCAM) which is studying this stuff. What they're not realizing is that NCCAM is charged with making sense of CAM not endorsing it. They might find an herb or two that has some small effect, but most of the studies are going to prove nothing. So CAM is covered elsewhere. It should be deleted. OrangeMarlin 13:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Well since you brought this article to my attention I have been watching and I think WP:OWN and many other policies fall into this article. A bunch of information that was put in by other editors have now just been deleted and on the talk page other editors are told to ignore it. There are comments about how some editors do not deserve WP:AGF too. What is going on here? I know that attacks happen but this articles talk page is full of it. I am going to stop watching as it is depressing to see WP:GAME like what seems to be happening. I wish you luck on tackling this one. Keep in mind that there are a group that are working together to keep this article as is, this is said in the talk pages. Good luck to you, I'll go back to the IBD articles Crohn's disease and try to make them so anyone can understand what the articles are trying to say (too scientific for someone like me! :) ) --CrohnieGal 14:24, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Revert

Actually, my reason for editing that paragraph is that "some people believe" felt too much like a weasel word. I just insert rephrased the sentence to be more informative with a relevant wikilink, and I have not mentioned Christianity at all except in my edit summary.

That most creation myths involve "supernatural intervention" has nothing to do with if you believe it or not, "supernatural intervention" is more or less the definition of religion.

Seriously, if that sentence should read "some people believe", then it begs to be appropriately sourced (How many are "some"? 1%? 99%?). I think it's better to just link to an article on what people believe about creation, and let that speak for itself. If you think I don't believe in evolution, you are wrong. How do you think I should phrase the sentence instead? Hmpxrii (talk) 19:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Please take your Christian POV off of my page. I don't like, don't believe in the myth, and I don't frankly care that you "believe in Evolution", because most people who say that don't know about what they're talking. Because one does not "believe" in any scientific fact. You either accept the fact, or you deny science. Do NOT post here any further. I will consider it vandalizing my page. OrangeMarlin 19:52, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

not all POV is vandalism

Orangemarlin, You might disagree with edits but to dismiss those that are not obvious vandalism without a more full explanation than "revert: this is your POV" is not that helpful. You, Fill and Adam all seem to be pulling the trigger too fast on these battlezone pages, do you all really think it is going to help them become more stable this way? David D. (Talk) 19:58, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I will not engage in discussion with POV warriors. Never does me any good, and frankly, just a plain "fuck you" works for me. So, I'm actually being nice in my edit summary. Otherwise, I refuse to discuss it any further. Usually, someone else follows up and we 3RR some asshole. OrangeMarlin 20:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand you position but i only see the problem getting worse with an emotional response. You just become bait once they know they've got your goat. David D. (Talk) 20:03, 18 December 2007 (UTC)