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| ********* And by the same token, the page ] can be added to this page which '''would''' make sense, wouldn't it? After all, it is the unrecognized ] which was self-proclaimed on the territory of ]. Hence, the article on the former could be added as a section of the latter. ] (]) 07:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | ********* And by the same token, the page ] can be added to this page which '''would''' make sense, wouldn't it? After all, it is the unrecognized ] which was self-proclaimed on the territory of ]. Hence, the article on the former could be added as a section of the latter. ] (]) 07:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
| **********So you want to get rid of the entire ] article and put it as a section under ]? ] (]) 18:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | **********So you want to get rid of the entire ] article and put it as a section under ]? ] (]) 18:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
| *********** That would make sense to have ] as a section of the article ] ] (]) 08:18, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Merge''' I'm changing my vote. This article is a FORK of ] ] (]) 20:28, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | *'''Merge''' I'm changing my vote. This article is a FORK of ] ] (]) 20:28, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 08:18, 31 December 2007
Azerbaijani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh
- Azerbaijani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
This appears to be a POV fork with no discernible use. It duplicates information that could either be handled on Administrative divisions of Azerbaijan or on the division section of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic or in a mention on Nagorno-Karabakh - and, in fact, is already handled in the first two, and possibly the third. There is no mergable information that I see. I only envision this article creating strife and supplying nothing in return. If we have this, why not one for all the other areas of Azerbaijan? Lower Karabakh, perhaps? The Azeri point of view is that the NKR doesn't exist, yet this article seems to give that area a special status. (note that for the time being on Misplaced Pages, "Nagorno-Karabakh", without the word 'Republic', appears to always mean the region. In this case, if it meant the republic, that would be a vastly unjustifiable title, as it would be saying Azerbaijan dictates the divisions of another country.) Golbez (talk) 17:57, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- Delete Per nom. Also everything that could be described about this topic is already very nicely done in Nagorno-Karabakh_Republic#Administrative_divisions. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 18:01, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. Azeri administrative division of Nagorno-Karabakh deserves its own article as a recognized sovereignty as much if not more than unrecognized and illegitimate "Nagorno-Karabakh Republic". Atabek (talk) 07:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
- Delete Per nom. No need for a separate article for something that is essentially useless and exists only on some dusty piece of paper.-- Ευπάτωρ 17:38, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. The raions/districts indicated in the article are recognized territory of Azerbaijan. They should be available for information to the readers as well. Ehud (talk) 23:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
- Keep and expand. Needs further work. Grandmaster (talk) 05:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. This article represents the de jure situation. If anything, this is the article that should be kept. It does require improvement though. Parishan (talk) 09:14, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Nagorno-Karabakh_Republic#Administrative_divisions also describes the de jure situation and is very nicely written and doesn't look like it needs expanding. If it does, by all means expand it. Another article on this topic is not necessary and is a POV fork. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 21:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. Per nom. Ad nauseum arguments about the NKR's "illegal" status have become stale.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 23:05, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
- Keep with sadness. Note that probably as much could be written about these divisions as about the NKR itself, so saying "cannot be expanded" is fairly false. - Francis Tyers · 14:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- Comment But it is still a FORK, you have forgotten that Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast article exist also, 4 articles about the same thing is excessive. There already was three articles when Grandmaster created this fork and Grandmaster was free to work on the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast article insteed of creating another one. What he created is a non-existing entity since past officially part of Azerbaijan which should be covered in the the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast article in a section which covers what followed, there is only the De facto republic. So any justification one can give won't change the fact that as a FORK this article should go, it is according to the policies and guidelines and we should vote according to them. -- Ευπάτωρ 23:40, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. If Nagorno-Karabakh_Republic#Administrative_divisions isn't the appropriate place to expand upon this topic, it can be expanded in the articles for Khojali, Khojavend, Kalbajar, Khojavend, Goranboy, and Shusha. The problem with this article is that there is no longer a Nagorno-Karabakh according to the Azerbaijani government so why would there be an article on Azerbiajani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh? Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 17:45, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- There's Nagorno-Karabakh, as well as Karabakh in general in Azerbaijan, the region just does not have an autonomy. Grandmaster (talk) 17:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- But Nagorno-Karabakh does not exist as an administrative entity according to the Azerbaijani Government. Hence there shouldn't be an article on Azerbaijani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 18:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- Pocopocopocopoco, actually, I think you're misunderstanding the term Nagorno-Karabakh. "Nagorno-Karabakh" in translation from Russian means Mountainous Karabakh. Azeris and previously Soviets have and are dividing the Karabakh region into Upper (Mountainous) and Lower (Lowland) Karabakh. The wording of the upper Karabakh is sometimes represented by Nagorno-, Nagorny-, Mountanous, Upper (sorry, don't remember the Azeri transliteration), etc. Hence, when some people refer to the region as Nagorno-Karabakh, they don't necessarily refer to NKAO (Nagorno-Karabakhskaya Avtonomnaya Oblast) which as you said, does not exist. They mean the upper part of Karabakh. Moreover, since the region has existed in international media and literature as Nagorno-Karabakh, Azeris have refrained from using the term "Upper Karabakh" so that there is one concrete terminology. Ehud (talk) 18:40, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- I am aware of that but it's good that you posted it. As per the information you provided, Nagorno-Karabakh is considered a region only and not an administrative entity according to the Azerbaijani Government. Hence there shouldn't be an article on Azerbaijani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh. According to the Azerbaijani Government, Nagorno-Karabakh is a region in the same way the Rocky Mountains are a region. Having an article on the US administrative divisions of the Rocky Mountains would be as equally meaningless. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 18:51, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, but the United States is not in a frozen conflict over internationally recognized US territory of Rocky Mountains with either Canada or Mexico. Nagorno-Karabakh (Mountainous Karabakh/Upper Karabakh)region is an internationally recognized Azerbaijani territory and as long as we have articles on de facto Nagorno-Karabakh under Armenian control, we should also have the above article available to the readers.Ehud (talk) 21:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- The official status is already mentioned in Nagorno-Karabakh Republic and Nagorno-Karabakh. It makes no sense to have this article just to underline this. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 02:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
- And by the same token, the page Nagorno-Karabakh Republic can be added to this page which would make sense, wouldn't it? After all, it is the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic which was self-proclaimed on the territory of Azerbaijan. Hence, the article on the former could be added as a section of the latter. Ehud (talk) 07:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
- So you want to get rid of the entire Nagorno-Karabakh Republic article and put it as a section under Azerbaijani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh? Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 18:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
- That would make sense to have Nagorno-Karabakh Republic as a section of the article Azerbaijani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh Ehud (talk) 08:18, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
- So you want to get rid of the entire Nagorno-Karabakh Republic article and put it as a section under Azerbaijani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh? Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 18:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
- And by the same token, the page Nagorno-Karabakh Republic can be added to this page which would make sense, wouldn't it? After all, it is the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic which was self-proclaimed on the territory of Azerbaijan. Hence, the article on the former could be added as a section of the latter. Ehud (talk) 07:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
- The official status is already mentioned in Nagorno-Karabakh Republic and Nagorno-Karabakh. It makes no sense to have this article just to underline this. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 02:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, but the United States is not in a frozen conflict over internationally recognized US territory of Rocky Mountains with either Canada or Mexico. Nagorno-Karabakh (Mountainous Karabakh/Upper Karabakh)region is an internationally recognized Azerbaijani territory and as long as we have articles on de facto Nagorno-Karabakh under Armenian control, we should also have the above article available to the readers.Ehud (talk) 21:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- I am aware of that but it's good that you posted it. As per the information you provided, Nagorno-Karabakh is considered a region only and not an administrative entity according to the Azerbaijani Government. Hence there shouldn't be an article on Azerbaijani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh. According to the Azerbaijani Government, Nagorno-Karabakh is a region in the same way the Rocky Mountains are a region. Having an article on the US administrative divisions of the Rocky Mountains would be as equally meaningless. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 18:51, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- Pocopocopocopoco, actually, I think you're misunderstanding the term Nagorno-Karabakh. "Nagorno-Karabakh" in translation from Russian means Mountainous Karabakh. Azeris and previously Soviets have and are dividing the Karabakh region into Upper (Mountainous) and Lower (Lowland) Karabakh. The wording of the upper Karabakh is sometimes represented by Nagorno-, Nagorny-, Mountanous, Upper (sorry, don't remember the Azeri transliteration), etc. Hence, when some people refer to the region as Nagorno-Karabakh, they don't necessarily refer to NKAO (Nagorno-Karabakhskaya Avtonomnaya Oblast) which as you said, does not exist. They mean the upper part of Karabakh. Moreover, since the region has existed in international media and literature as Nagorno-Karabakh, Azeris have refrained from using the term "Upper Karabakh" so that there is one concrete terminology. Ehud (talk) 18:40, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- But Nagorno-Karabakh does not exist as an administrative entity according to the Azerbaijani Government. Hence there shouldn't be an article on Azerbaijani administrative divisions of Nagorno-Karabakh. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 18:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- There's Nagorno-Karabakh, as well as Karabakh in general in Azerbaijan, the region just does not have an autonomy. Grandmaster (talk) 17:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- Merge I'm changing my vote. This article is a FORK of Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast VartanM (talk) 20:28, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- Keep If one wanted to look at most of the maps published in these days, s/he would not find boundaries of Nagorno-Karabakh, despite the fact that the geography and terminology itself has not disappeared. After 1993, Azerbaijani authorities have not renamed the Soviet era names of regions composing NK, but have divided its administrative regions among other neighbouring regions. Therefore, it is important to keep this information here. Another option would be keep it inside NKAO or Nagorno-Karabakh articles, but rather under its own/current title. Article or sub-article can be expanded with more information, such as when and under what decrees these administrative were divided, be it only legally and on the map. --Aynabend (talk) 19:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. Wouldn't the article on the NKAO be the most appropriate place to put this information including how the NKAO was divided and the decrees on how the NKAO was divided? Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 23:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC)