Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 21:00, 31 December 2007

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

This is Jimbo Wales's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

Archives: Index, Index, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252Auto-archiving period: 2 days

Archives

Index -index- As of January 16, 2003 September – December 2005 January 2006 January – February 2006 February 2006 February 2006, cont. March 2006 April 2006 - late May 2006 May 24 - July 2006 July 2006 - August 2006 August 2006 Most of September 2006 Late September 2006 - Early November 2006 Most of November 2006 Late November 2006 - December 8, 2006 December 9, 2006 - Mid January 2007 From December 22, 2006 blanking Mid January 2007 - Mid February 2007 Mid February 2007- Feb 25, 2007 From March 2, 2007 blanking March 2-5, 2007 March 5-11, 2007 March 11 - April 3, 2007 April 2 - May 2, 2007 May 3 - June 7, 2007 June 9 - July 4, 2007 July 13 - August 17, 2007 August 17 - September 11, 2007 September 14 - October 7, 2007 October 28 - December 1, 2007 December 2 - December 16, 2007 December 15 - January 4, 2008 January 4 - January 30, 2008 January 30 - February 28, 2008 February 28 - March 11, 2008 March 9 - April 18, 2008 April 18 - May 30, 2008 May 30 - July 27, 2008 July 26 - October 4, 2008 October 4 - November 12, 2008 November 10 - December 10, 2008 December 5 - December 25, 2008 December 25 - January 16, 2009 January 15 - January 27, 2009 January 26 - February 10, 2009 February 8 - March 18, 2009 March 18 - May 6, 2009 May 5 - June 9, 2009 June 10 - July 11, 2009 July 12 - August 29, 2009

This page has archives. Sections older than 2 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Your email comments on school notability

Hi Jimbo, I was directed to this post of yours on the mail list. Based on that, would you mind commenting on Misplaced Pages talk:Notability (schools)? Thanks. Lawrence Cohen 19:49, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

My views have changed substantially since that time, though. High schools are problematic because there are typically no reliable sources but also because these kinds of articles are typically magnets for BLP-violating vandalism. I still maintain, of course, that there is a big difference between not wanting thousands and thousands of bot-generating articles. But I am less sanguine about the possibility of being able to create and maintain good high quality articles on schools. I do not vote in deletion debates, and my views are just the views of one editor, so please don't quote this either way as a decree of some kind. :)--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Very wise. Are you personally leaning more towards maintainability rather than verifiability being the inclusion threshold these days? Alice 23:01, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, not so much that. I think that the best route to maintainability is verifiability. :) I still very much think that verifiability should be relied on whenever possible to do the heavy lifting on difficult questions of "notability". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimbo Wales (talk • contribs) 17:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that and I will bear it in mind when I vote on articles for deletion. Alice 01:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Several months ago, I took a run at the problems with universal inclusion of high schools. The result was this incomplete and rather weak essay, but I note several of my points parallel Jimbo's above. My main point is WP:V is a such a foundational policy that to merely prove that a school exists isn't enough to base an article on, even a stub. Or so it seems to me. Cheers, Pigman☿ 03:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Would you weigh-in on a RfC?

I have never posted here before, but I was wondering if you might like to weigh in on a request for comment that I think will have implications well down the road. It's occurring right here. The article is What the Bleep Do We Know!? and the question basically is "Can editors use reliable sources that don't mention the movie but mention the content of the movie?" In other words, is it original research to let the reader know that certain purported "facts" in a movie are flatly contradicted by science textbooks and then reference those science textbooks which may not directly reference the movie (perhaps because they were written before the movie came out). ScienceApologist (talk) 22:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem is the phrase "mention the content of the movie." If the sources do not mention the movie, then they are not literally mentioning the content of the movie, they are mentioning content that you (or I) believe is "really" contents of the moview. This is at best a slippery slope leading wikipedia editors to insert their own views into articles. The issue here is not what is a reliable source but what is an appropriate source. An appropriate source should be a source ´´concerning the topic of the article´´. If the topic of an article is biology or physics, then sources on biology or physics are appropriate. If the topic of an article is a film, then sources on the film are appropriate sources.. It sounds like Science Apologist has his or her own opinion and wans to make that part of the article. If the movie really is not an authoritative documentary on science, can´t we find appropriate sources - e.g. reviews of the movie by critics or scientists who watched the movie - that say so? Slrubenstein | Talk 05:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

You're missing the point. Say someone made a documentary that stated as fact that Abraham Lincoln died at the age of 85 (to use an example provided in the discussion). Would it really be original research to refer to documents that proved he was shot and killed and include a statement like "mainstream historians disagree with the points presented in the movie"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ScienceApologist (talk • contribs) 14:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

A slippery slope indeed. In your extreme example above, if there was such a documentary ever made, and the documentary was notable, you would find a variety of sources that would address the factual inaccuracies in the documentary. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 17:53, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

What if there were none? ScienceApologist (talk) 23:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Not necessarily. We have tons of articles on marginally notable documentaries, books, etc. that have received almost no serious coverage by knowledgeable sources. And if the point is less glaring than Abraham Lincoln dying at 85, it's likely to get overlooked. This is especially the case for scientific topics given that most movie reviewers have near-zero scientific knowledge. Raymond Arritt (talk) 00:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Excellent point, Raymond! Alice 01:02, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

That actually makes a better point for deletion of the article than for turning the article into a Misplaced Pages-only critique of the contents of the documentary. Risker (talk) 01:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree 100%. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to get an article deleted if the subject has so much as a passing mention in a marginally credible source. Raymond Arritt (talk) 01:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

A small update to MediaWiki software...

Yes.. Misplaced Pages is a great project... I think, this idea, can make it even better. Of late, I found that statistical data shown in Misplaced Pages is not consistent among different language versions. To make it consistent and for the benefit of editors, can we have a Wikimedia Statistics site, similar to Wikimedia commons, where we can categorize every possible statistical information starting from salary of people, to population of hungary to revenues of corporations etc? Instead of directly editing Misplaced Pages for updating these values, we should instead edit the common statistics site and that change should be reflected automatically to all the pages that "transclude" this information (just like page transclusion).

Can you do this? This could greatly improve the quality of the already great Misplaced Pages.. :) Thanks, Mugunth 05:46, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

See m:Proposals for new projects#Statistics Wiki. MER-C 10:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I saw this.. It's good... But can these values be transcluded in articles in other projects.?

Like if I write Population of XXX: {{statwiki:Population:XXX}}, Misplaced Pages should display the value from Wikitistics. Mugunth 01:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Please help me - I just want to clear my name now

This section moved from Talk:Jimmy Wales

Hi Jimbo please see . This has gone on for years, I have been bullied, stalked and falsely accused of so much basically by one editor User:SandyGeorgia gaming the system and trading on her knowledge of existing issues.

I HAVE to go to arbcom and get a proper chance to defend myself...in the past I have always wound up gagged while lies are told...that is NOT fair...

I know I don't matter, why should I? I am no-one...but as long as this can be done to me it can be done to anyone, and if it can be, it will be...

I am sitting here in floods of tears....I feel like I am at the end of my rope...that must seem crazy but I was raised by a psychopathic mother, made out to be the guilty party whatever I did, however good, even perfect I tried to be...abusive people pick up on that and the dominos start to fall...

I have to turn around and fight this to the end now...please help me get a fair chance to do that? That's all I am asking, not for anyone to be censured but just for me to have a fair chance to clear this up once and for all through arbcom and PROVE that Misplaced Pages still works...and always can. Whatever games people try to play with the system. --Zeraeph (talk) 08:36, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I think what has happened here is very unfortunate. A number of good editors and admins are trying to sort it out so that Zeraeph can continue to edit without feeling harassed (regardless of whether she's right or wrong to feel that way), and also so that SandyGeorgia doesn't feel undermined either. There has certainly been an unpleasant dynamic, but I'm hopeful we can get it sorted this time. SlimVirgin 09:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Mr Wales: The overrriding objective here should not be to allow one editor to continue to edit, but to protect the encyclopedia. While everyone can edit, there are limitations. The editor in question (Z) has made false statements of fact about another editor, and has persisted in that conduct, both on and off Misplaced Pages. The rigorous policies underlying BLP are not attenuated simply because the subject of false statements happens to be an editor; attacks are attacks regardless of where they appear on Misplaced Pages. (My apologies for posting here rather than on your user talk page; I did so to keep the thread together.) My regards, Kablammo (talk) 12:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC) To be absolutely clear: while some of the attacks were expressions of opinion, others were allegations of fact, such as ascribing to the object of the attack certain diagnoses or mental conditions. The matter is under discussion elsewhere on Misplaced Pages so I will not duplicate detail here. Kablammo (talk) 13:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, these attacks on Sandy across mulitple pages of Misplaced Pages (and presumably also offsite) simply have to stop. It is just this sort of behavior, gone unpunished, which encourages some of our best contributers to leave the project. It is my fervent hope that Z, and editors like her, will be blocked or banned from editing so that constructive contributers who sincerely want to help the project can do so without feeling threatened or harassed. Jeffpw (talk) 13:22, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo, I want to assure you that I have never made a deliberate false statement about any editor, though many have been made about me. I made one sincere mistake, a very small thing, whereby I mistook one editor for a sockpuppet of another they resembled closely in positive ways as well as negative ones, and in their attitude to me. I cannot be the first person to do that, and yet that seems to have been blown out of all proportion, not only at the time, but since. Apart from that I have been at pains to only tell the truth in any of this. If what I was saying was not true I would not have a problem here, and I do, most definitely, have a serious problem here. (I was so upset I managed to post to the wrong page by mistake) --Zeraeph (talk) 13:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

This post contains one such statement. Kablammo (talk) 14:27, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Kablammo, that is, indeed a link to the one sincere mistake I made as I referred to above. --Zeraeph (talk) 15:15, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I guess this was another. Jeffpw (talk) 15:17, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

No, that was just a statement of fact that I am prepared to stand by particularly in the face of personal attacks like this or this or this that go on constantly without censure. I do not know another way to tell the truth than to just tell it. --Zeraeph (talk) 15:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo, I invite you to look on this as wikidrama staged by SlimVirgin. SlimVirgin invited Zeraeph to the stage by unblocking her. SlimVirgin knew (or should have known if she didn't) that a drama sequel was going to follow when she unblocked Zeraeph.

As far as I can see there's an unsettling divide et impera component in all this. Ask me if you don't understand what I mean by that. Compare current discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#There was an easy way to deal with all of this drama before the fact --Francis Schonken (talk) 22:11, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo, as you know, I am a big girl, nobody uses me in any "Wikidrama", as far as I can see, Slimvirgin just happened to notice what was happening and did what nobody else has done to date...looked closer, and started to see some of the truth. She will NEVER know what that meant to me after all this time of being maligned, re-invented and stigmatised...just that someone who didn't even know me would actually STOP and take the time to be fair to me, as so many others have not.

I have my chance to put this before arbcom, maybe they will see the truth too, but I know it is a lot to ask, so if they don't, I won't mind. I really came to respect whatr you are doing here and nothing will sour that, besides, because of SandyGeorgia, once I never stood a chance here, and now I am finished here, arbcom is the only chance I have. Thank You --Zeraeph (talk) 23:11, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

This is at Arb. Zeraeph's forum shopping here should be shut down. Marskell (talk) 23:15, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Marskell, as you know, the arbcom request was made by user:Jehochman not me some 12 hours after I posted here. To call that my "forum shopping" is a little odd. --Zeraeph (talk) 23:21, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Re. (Z:) "To call that "forum shopping" is a little odd" - your request was posted here while the issue was being processed at WP:AN. Indeed, no relation with the RfAr request initiated by someone else after the processing of the issue at WP:AN. (As a comparison:) previously Jimbo got involved after your post on this page, at the time without forum shopping implication (). The situation was different then: at the time you said not to solicit support (). Above (or rather: originally on a talk page of an encyclopedia article ) you solicited support, at a time when your issue was being processed at another forum (WP:AN). Yes, that could be seen as forum shopping. But we're on Jimbo's talk page here: I'd be all ears if he provides a different assessment.

Re. (Z:) " nobody uses me in any "Wikidrama" " - Generally, I go from the assumption that people don't allow themselves being used consciously. You stepped in an open door there.

Re. (FS:) "As far as I can see there's an unsettling divide et impera component in all this." - I'd like to add a reference for that: . --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The WikiMedia Foundation needs money

We both know that the WikiMedia Foundation needs money. Can I volunteer to have the WikiMedia Foundation sell ad space on my user pages? Maybe we can have a user template set up so that anyone who wishes to, can help fund the WikiMedia Foundation in this way. Is this possible? This could be as limited as one small approved ad on a user page. Or it could be allowed to expand to allow users to compete to see who can create the most money producing set of user subpages. Or anything in-between. Let's make money for a good cause off the drama. There is no telling what kinds of cash crops could be grown in the set of user subpages marked with a This page's ad revenues are donated to the non-profit WikiMedia Foundation. template. Users could join forces and produce who knows what to create revenue for Misplaced Pages and fame for themselves. All those people who came here to promote something could create user subpages with their ideas or vanity and instead of being a constant disruptive force in the encyclopedia can be turned into a revenue generator. Of course, it would have to be very clear that it was not an encyclopedia page. Perhaps a whole different look to an ad enabled page so at a glance it would not be confused with the encyclopedia. Instead of deleting pages based on non-notability or nonsense or the like, they can be "userfied" to an ad enabled user subpage. We can convert our content problems into a revenue solution. WAS 4.250 (talk) 17:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

It's a well-intentioned idea, but I don't think user pages have the readership or type of ads which would draw much revenue. In order to make a serious amount of money, it would be necessary to either have a high number of people seeing the ads, or to use very profitable keywords (a user named "Wii" might become extremely popular ...). If they do, you're on the way to re-inventing Wikia as subpages of Misplaced Pages. Such re-invention is an interesting concept, granted, though there's a huge number of problematic conflicts inherent in it. Come to think of it, selling ticket to the drama such a proposal would generate could be a money-maker itself :-) -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 00:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I would support ads (on content pages) that you would have to opt-in to see, but since such a small % of Misplaced Pages users are editors (and could enable this in their preferences), this kind of system probably would not make a lot of money. What we need are more imaginative fundraisers than simply asking for donations with a bar on the top of every page. Mr.Z-man 00:34, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Captitalism and Wikimedia/Wikipedia is a winning combination. The world economy functions because of a simpple resolution and thesis based on the original barter systems. Misplaced Pages can compete very effectively with Google / KNOL if there is a system in place to generate revenue. Advertising on all pages will be an important step to take; yes, difficult at first, albeit it will be a necessary one...ultimately. Press on! Like a Rainbow (talk) 00:46, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

It's a well-intentioned idea but as Seth says this would need to be implemented in mainspace to really work and that will never gather support here. Also, I find it problematic that enwiki is going to be used as an advertising wall unless the community is granted further influence on how exactly that money is spend - something that most of us currently regard as a foundation issue. And we all know the politics of that problem and why it will never happen. Like Mr.Z-man says we need more creative fundraisers and we need to be more realistic. If the foundation can't collect enough money as it is now then we need to rethink our priorities. EconomicsGuy (talk) 07:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, there are serious issues to be considered here. Currently our privacy policy protects those who wish to edit certain articles even if their government don't appreciate it so to speak. If we include ads then the provider(s) of those ads will be able to track our readers and users without us being in control of how that data is used. If we were to do this then we would need to setup our own ad selling service so we know how that tracking data is used. EconomicsGuy (talk) 07:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Your opinion on a delicate subject

Hello Jimmy. In case you don't know, a proposal to shut down the Volapük wikipedia failed on meta. A few days ago, a new proposal was made, this time to delete the great number of bot-created stubs and bring what's left to the Incubator. Given that some question the legitimacy of this new proposal (hot on the heels of the old one) and even the feasability of bringing 2,000+ articles to the Incubator, I'd like you to comment in the discussion, especially after I read a comment of yours in which you seem to be in favour of carrying out some kind of measure within the Volapük wikipedia. Thanks and happy new year! -- Danilot (talk) 13:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Smile

-

10:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year, Jimbo Wales. May 2008 bring you many successful edits, featured articles, and less disagreements! Stay safe, and watch those broken bottles on the floor.

STORMTRACKER 94 13:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Your edit to WT:WEA

Jimmy - While I respect you, and I do understand the context of this edit here, I do not believe it is actually in your remit, or the AC's remit to do such a thing. While they and you can frequent the place and give gentle encouragement, there would have to be a fine line between, encouraging as a free agent, and doing so on behalf of yourself or the AC. I do not believe it is within your ability, or the AC's ability or ambit, to have any real authority over IRC, or any off wiki social communications construct. I just wanted to clear that up, that is that no new policy like this (and it is policy creation) should have been attempted, and should perhaps the statement be withdrawn in part by you. Best regards, and I hope everything is well, Mercury 14:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

section break

Power is an interesting thing. It is fuzzy and has boundaries that can increase with careful use and decrease with careless use. Admins that use a site in a way that the AC finds makes them unsuited to remain admins, can be desyoped. Any site that admins frequent that chooses to ignore Jimmy's and AC's and the community's concerns will eventually find that one way or another it has no wikipedia admins. Those who run the communication channel in question fully understand this, even if you don't. Remember when the President fired all the striking aircraft controllers? They thought they were irreplaceable. Do you think admins who frequent the admin IRC are irreplaceable? Who do you think the community would back in a showdown with Jimmy and the AC when the issue is civility (don't call people bitches or arses) and transparency (present evidence to ban/block on wikipedia, not the IRC) ? An admin who goes to WR and talks about how he has access to deleted articles people there want to look at might find himself desyoped, don't you think? Use your imagination and draw a parallel. The WR situation demonstrates careful use of power, so there is no need to worry about heavy-handed tactics - just careful and effective use. WAS 4.250 (talk) 15:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Was,

I use profanity on a regular basis in my life, and sometimes in -admins, and would like to continue doing so. To date, I'm told that I cause no offense. And if anyone presented evidence for a block on IRC, and actually carried out that block, would there be an issue? No, this is called a sanity check. Not so long as the block was *also* justified on the wiki, and there was no canvassing going on. The admins don't canvass from what I can see anyway.

No, I'm addressing a larger issue, of what the mission of the English Misplaced Pages is and is not. Mercury 15:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

See http://meta.wikimedia.org/Mission ; The English language Misplaced Pages is the English encyclopedia part of that. WAS 4.250 (talk) 15:18, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what you are seeing, I'm seeing the WMF may be the better one to create policy or even hosting of the IRC, or any communications construct. Would like to see Jimmy weigh in. Mercury 15:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

See http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-December/036802.html and related items in the thread for an interesting discussion of where power is and should be with regard to foundation, communty, staff, Jimmy. WAS 4.250 (talk) 15:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: " no new policy like this (and it is policy creation) should have been attempted " - I support Jimbo's initiative --Francis Schonken (talk) 15:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Freenode policy designates that the group (e.g. Wikimedia and Misplaced Pages) and channel contacts and its designated ops are in charge of the respective group channels. Although I have not checked myself, and cannot right now as I'm behind a firewall at work, I would assume the Misplaced Pages group contact is Jimbo. He would be perfectly within his rights for this. --Charitwo 15:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

If I were to create a message board and designate some of my policy to delegate responsibility or control to enwiki, it does not however, make it proper for en wiki to do so. Just to stay on the right track. Mercury 15:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I am definitely on the right track. I don't see how posting this on here has anything to do with en wiki controlling the Misplaced Pages IRC group. I said Jimbo and the underwritten individuals reserve the right to exercise control of the channels assigned to the Misplaced Pages IRC group and I provided sources to back that up as they are the contacts for such. The fact that this was posted on Misplaced Pages compared to anywhere else is irrelevant, the authority is there regardless. --Charitwo 15:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Charitwo, I was under the impression that User:Jdforrester had ultimate authority over the channels. From his user page:

I'm the Chair of the Wikimedia Group Contacts, which basically means that I'm in charge :-) IRC policy, channel maintenance, etc. take much of my time here. Theoretically I should be the ranking chanop in every IRC channel, but it rarely works out that way until I find that I need it now. :-)

If I understand correctly, this does not place the IRC channels under the authority of anyone but User:Jdforrester. Not Wikimedia, not Jimbo, not ArbCom, not wiki-en. Therefore, if that is true, it would be up to User:Jdforrester if he wanted to surrender control and make it more "official". Moreover, the channels have always been described to me as "unofficial", if Jimbo were in charge I think it would have been described as official. daveh4h 19:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

There are two IRC groups, Wikimedia and Misplaced Pages, as I said above, I am at work and couldn't confirm contacts as a lot of ports used by IRC or other chat programs are blocked. --Charitwo 19:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

There are actually several hundred channels involved. Thatcher has put together a list here. It is my reading of the Wikimedia pages related to IRC that the Foundation has made it clear that they do not accept any responsibility for the channels - so I am hard pressed to see how one of the projects of the Wikimedia Foundation can accept responsibility for any of the channels, either. The question might be better put to the Foundation, perhaps through the Foundation mailing list. Like you, I am not in a position to do that right now. Risker (talk) 19:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I ever specified channels, that would be really ignorant. I clearly said groups. Wikimedia IRC group and Misplaced Pages IRC group. Each of which, as you said, consisting of quite a good deal of channels. --Charitwo 19:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thatcher has listed them in their groups, I understand. Not sure I really see why there is a difference, if the Foundation does not take responsibility for either groups or their component channels, but you may see things from a different perspective. Risker (talk) 19:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I guess my question is Jdforrester the group contact for both Wikimedia and Misplaced Pages groups, or just MediaWiki? --Charitwo 20:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

He is the sole contact for all of these groups, there is no official group contact according to Freenode; I believe he is categorized as the "owner." Risker (talk) 20:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Have a great year Jimbo Wales. Let the fireworks light begin!

Love, GalaxyGuy --GalaxyGuy (talk) 17:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

All the best for 2008! Lradrama 17:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Joe Lieberman vandalism

Jimbo, did you protect the Joe Lieberman article while you were presenting to the Senate, so that people wouldn't say things like he got divorced because of all the ants on his genitalia? --AntsOnNuts (talk) 21:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)