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Revision as of 21:04, 14 January 2008

	United Kingdom has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones Date Process Result May 3, 2006 Peer review Reviewed July 22, 2006 Good article nominee Listed September 30, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted February 11, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted Current status: Good article

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Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. United Kingdom Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Country/State debate archives June 2005 – March 2006 April 2006 – May 2006 Terminology debate archives July 2006 – September 2006 September 2006 – October 2006 Subdivision name debate archives April 2008 – June 2008

Country?

Sorry but for how long has the UK been a singular country? I swear last time I checked it was a collection of countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.56.188 (talk) 19:57, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you're simply trolling or not, but this is a space to discuss edits, not to ask questions about the subject at hand. Needless to say, it should be fairly obvious to anybody that the UK is a country. --Breadandcheese (talk) 21:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This is an old and tiresome debate now. I suggest users new and old coming to this issue (whether again or for the first time) ought to be pointed to the old debates in the archives -- Jza84 · (talk) 21:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

It's a fair object of discussion on this page. Sure, we've discussed it before, but it someone wants to revive it, why not?--Gazzster (talk) 23:20, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Of course, and they have the right to do so per WP:CCC, but I do think it more than sensible that they at least be aware that this has been discussed, and discussed, and discussed again with each occation leading back to the same consensus. Certainly it would negate need to have to re-argue old points as well as avoid edit wars and the like between two or more users who may not be aware that this issue has been tackled several times before. -- Jza84 · (talk) 23:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Can we have this 'worn out' discussion at the bottom of the talk-page? GoodDay (talk) 23:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually a refractured version pointing to a full discussion would be better. Benjiboi 01:05, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I've never actually seen this discussion take place, only the discussion be dismissed on the basis that the discussion has already taken place. Was there ever a discussion? How long ago was it? Can we have a link to it from those fortunate enough to have lived at and seen that great and wise time? --sony-youth 03:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I've been involved with a lengthy one once (it may have been at England though, I forget) which agreed with country, but I was specifically pointing to the discussion in the archives (top right) specially prepared under "Country/State debate archives". -- Jza84 · (talk) 03:06, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Currency

on the weblink it say 57% not 55% Against the euro —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.231.38 (talk) 12:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I checked that out - if you carry on reading it will say that, if the Government recommended that the UK join the euro, how would you vote? There it clearly shows 30% for, 55% against. The 57% one is if the UK voted now (2005), who would support/not support. 86.142.110.249 17:43, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I have been reading about a current analysis on UK GDP which should see the current Nominal updated Analyst Oxford Economics said the UK's GDP per head of population will reach £23,500 this year that is $46,331 the weblink for this is here : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7174372.stm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.57.0 (talk) 13:12, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

According to the Financial Times, the UK has slipped behind France at 6th biggest economy in the world instead of 5th previously, because of the weakness of the GBP against the Euro: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/abe2ffc4-c08b-11dc-b0b7-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1. This should be edited here and on the France article. Michros (talk) 18:12, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

per Missing Information template

I came here trying to find an overview (and maybe a mainarticle link) for the flora and fauna of the U.K., which seems to be completely missing. I don't think that's GA-class work, and it should be included. The plants and animals of the nation are at least as important as climate and geography. VanTucky 03:02, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

It has been a week now, and no one has responded to this, so I will.

I don't agree with the claim that the lack of flora and fauna coverage makes this less than GA work. I base that on the fact that of articles in Category:Geography and places good articles relating to countries, states, or provinces, more do not have much or any discussion of flora and fauna.

It may be this information should be included. Scotland has this information, but, as far as I can see, England and Wales do not. If flora and fauna are going to be included, perhaps they should be added to the constituent countries' articles and summarized here with "see also" or "main article" links to the relevant sections.

The other option is to ignore the suggestion and remove the template from the article. Does anyone have an opinion. -Rrius (talk) 02:14, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any harm in a F&F article for the UK, or even a breif (emphasis) section here (or on Geography of the United Kingdom. Of course it would have to be verifiable and MOS compliant, but I for one have no knowledge on the topic in hand. Is there a flora and fauna related Wikiproject we could approach for advice perhaps? -- Jza84 · (talk) 02:22, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

As I state above Rrius, it's my thought that not even once mentioning the plants and animals that inhabit the UK is a grave mistake. I'm very surprised their isn't an article on this topic already. GA doesn't have to be as long as FA, but it still has to cover all the basic topics in some fashion. As this article stands, kids might think it's palm trees and polar bears. Even if you make individual England and Wales articles, you still need a paragraph with main article links to summarize. VanTucky 03:15, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure you read what I wrote. I never took a position on whether the lack of flora and fauna info is a mistake. I challenged your assertion that GA needs flora and fauna after I checked other Category:Geography and places good articles and found that many, if not most, roughly similar articles either barely mentioned the topic or do not mention it at all. You did not say "it was a grave mistake" or "surprising"; you said it made the article less than GA. That may be your opinion, but it does not seem to be the opinion of people assessing these articles. As I said, I took no position on whether it was a mistake ("grave" or otherwise) not to have a section on flora and fauna. I did propose alternatives for how to deal with the issue. If you had more carefully read what I wrote, you would have seen that coupled with my suggestion of handling flora and fauna in the England and Wales articles was a suggestion that those sections be summarized here and links provided back to those sections. Please take the time to read the suggestion next time before criticizing it. -Rrius (talk) 03:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, but I've reviewed dozens of GA candidates and I know the criteria backwards and forwards. Articles listed as GA aren't the barometer of what is GA, the criteria is. Articles often deteriorate with time, or may not have been reviewed properly to begin with. Besides, it is relative. For a city, state or province flora and fauna isn't a vital subject. For a country like the UK it most definitely is. I wouldn't pass the Russia or Canada article without some mention of their flora and fauna, so I don't think this article should be called GA if it doesn't mention it substantially. All talk aside, if no one adds a section then I'll be filing a reassessment for the article. VanTucky 05:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

For the record, I only included state/constituent-country/province level because there were flora-fauna references there, and I did not include cities or regions or the like. Down to business:

(1) This is a serious question and not a dig: is the flora-fauna thing specifically included in the criteria, or is just your opinion that flora and fauna are as among the basic topics that any country article should address?

(2) Is it your position that all the country articles without flora-fauna that are currently listed as GA must have previously had flora-fauna included even if they do not now (including this one)?

(3) Will you be placing the flora-fauna template on the other GA country articles that do not currently have flora-fauna sections and request reassessment for those that do not comply?

(4) If the issue is, as seems clear from your previous comments, so important to you, why don't you add a brief guide to the flora and fauna of the UK?

-Rrius (talk) 06:25, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) (1) No, the criteria does not get that specific. It is my interpretation. (2) There are no absolutes, what I care about right now is this article. I came here looking for some very basic info, and it was missing. But to answer the question: I don't know. Most reviewers focus on improving what is in articles rather than thinking about what's missing, so it's a distinct possibility that it could be either way. My best guess would be that most GA country articles had or have some mention (if not a section) on flora and fauna. (3) Again, I care about this article. This isn't part of a sweep of all GAs, and doing so after or while I deal with article seems a little pointy to me. (4) Because I don't have source material, I'm working on other things, and I don't know anything about it. It's a problem for me because I came here to learn about it, and it wasn't available. I don't have the time or inclination to add a section right now, but preserving the sanctity of GA is always important to me, thus the mention of delisting. VanTucky 17:53, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

don't think it's very relevant to include as the uk is a political entity, not a geographical one. the fauna of northern ireland is different to that of great britain (no snakes in NI for example). the right place would be the Great Britain and Ireland articles. currently the ireland article covers f and f, the great britain one doesn't--Mongreilf (talk) 18:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I now understand that this flora and fauna thing arises solely from your individual belief that a discussion of flora and fauna is so basic as to be necessary for a country article to have a GA rating. Based upon the state of other GA country articles, I am confident that this is not a widely held view. I am also confident that if this article were to fail a reassessment, it would not be the result of a consensus that it lacks flora and fauna treatment.

If a significant amount of time passes with no consensus to the contrary or meaningful action taken, I will remove the missing info template from the article. It is not clear that the information requested is necessary or even relevant.

Having said all that, it is not my intention to discuss this further (aside from defending or explaining myself) until more people have spoken up because the discussion is only useful if more people get involved. -Rrius (talk) 20:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

External Links

Propose "Countries within a country" from the Official Website of the British Prime Minister. Correct-o-pedia (talk) 21:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I would recommend taking a look at Misplaced Pages's guide on External links. I'm concerned that that page doesn't quite meet the guide on what should be included. -- Jza84 · (talk) 00:04, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Financial Treatment of UK Senior Citizens

My wife and I are deeply concerned with regards to the treatment we are getting with the current government pension allowances. Over the last four or five years our annual increases have not covered for the annual increases in our everyday living costs and we are suprised that as a group nothing has been said. We are in our early seventies and have three daughters now in their middle forties. We were brought up from very poor back grounds and have worked hard through our life my wife finished work to bring up the children and I enjoyed a very hard working life both in the UK and abroad. Our three daughters have grown up and become very professional in their jobs for which we are very proud. We have all worked very hard in life and not sponged the authorities for dole or any other allowances. I feel that because we have done everything right and unfortunately was unable to save for a very large personal pension we do struggle to make ends meet and it is gradually getting worse. We see the television and read the daily papers where all these criminals , elegal imigrants and the unemployed who are getting much more money than we will ever get , please tell us if this is fair and why can there be nothing done about it to improve our lives? We are very suprised that Senior Citizens party can not have a greater say in improving life for people like ourselves. We would be interested in your thoughts and look forward to a response. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.37.99 (talk) 15:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok....To the unsigned comment on pensions: Misplaced Pages is not some kind of Q&A site, nor do we actually have those answers. We're not some political entity that can be relied on as a source for political information. Signed by Scryer_360, who doesn't sign in out of spite for the sign in loading times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.148.162.191 (talk) 18:08, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Your question about pensions could be posted at Misplaced Pages:Reference desk but the above poster is correct that this might not be best place to get information along these lines. Benjiboi 11:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I completely sympathise with your situation, and that of all those like you. Unfortunately, Misplaced Pages is probably not the best medium to use to get answers, support or help, as the website is an encyclopaedia whose main purpose is to provide information. Perhaps I can suggest that you visit another website, such as http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ for petitions or http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/discuss/index.cfm for similar discussions. 86.146.142.35 (talk) 19:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Talk page clean-up please

The talk page is way too long and any old or non-needed discussions should be archived. This benefits editors who want to find out what the current open discussions are as well as users who may have slower internet connections. Please consider tagging items with {{resolved}} for closed discussions and {{stale}} for topics which are no longer of interest to the current editors. All items tagged can then be added into the archives; please start a new archive page if needed as those too should not be terribly lengthy. Benjiboi 09:43, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. Benjiboi 11:10, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Flora and fauna

With its mild climate and varied soils, the United Kingdom has a diverse pattern of natural vegetation. Originally, oak forests probably covered the lowland, except for the fens and marsh areas, while pine forests and patches of moorland covered the higher or sandy ground. Over the centuries, much of the forest area, especially on the lowlands, was cleared for cultivation. Today only about 9% of the total surface is wooded. Fairly extensive forests remain in east and north Scotland and in southeast England. Oak, elm, ash, and beech are the most common trees in England. Pine and birch are most common in Scotland. Almost all the lowland outside the industrial centers is farmland, with a varied seminatural vegetation of grasses and flowering plants. Wild vegetation consists of the natural flora of woods, fens and marshes, cliffs, chalk downs, and mountain slopes, the most widespread being the heather, grasses, gorse, and bracken of the moorlands.

The fauna is similar to that of northwestern continental Europe, although there are fewer species. Some of the larger mammals—wolf, bear, boar, and reindeer—are extinct, but red and roe deer are protected for sport. Common smaller mammals are foxes, hares, hedgehogs, rabbits, weasels, stoats, shrews, rats, and mice; otters are found in many rivers, and seals frequently appear along the coast. There are few reptiles and amphibians. Roughly 230 species of birds reside in the United Kingdom, and another 200 are migratory. Most numerous are the chaffinch, blackbird, sparrow, and starling. The number of large birds is declining, however, except for game birds—pheasant, partridge, and red grouse—which are protected. With the reclamation of the marshlands, waterfowl are moving to the many bird sanctuaries. The rivers and lakes abound in salmon, trout, perch, pike, roach, dace, and grayling. There are more than 21,000 species of insects.

As an outside observer I'd like to interject that this is a great start to its own article and since the rest of the United Kingdom article is well developed you might best be served by developing Flora and fauna of United Kingdom or similar complete with references. Then other editors can assist in developing that article as well as coming up with a concise summary for this article. Benjiboi 01:04, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

FRANCE HAS OVERANKED THE UK AS WORLD'S 5TH ECONOMY !!!

According to the FINANCIAL TIME, the size of the British economy has slipped below that of France for the first time since 1999 thanks to the slide in the value of the pound.

The US, Japan, Germany, China and France all had larger economies than the UK in the third quarter of 2007 – and in 2006.

The figures represented a “political economic cataclysm” for Britain, said Martin Weale, the director of the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, who noted that the UK government often boasted of Britain’s being the fourth largest economy, and then the fifth largest when China overtook the UK in 2005.

The UK’s demotion to sixth place will put pressure on the government’s reputation for economic competence, particularly as it is Britain’s ancient rival, France, that is moving ahead.

Mr Weale said that, although the change in rank had no immediate effect on British living standards and the UK still had slightly higher gross domestic product per head, the falling exchange rate would crimp income growth compared with overall growth in economic output.

In 2006, the GDP of France was €1,792bn (£1,353bn) compared with £1,304bn for the UK. With sterling worth €1.47 on average in 2006, this put the UK economy comfortably 6.7 per cent ahead of the French economy.

But with sterling’s more than 10 per cent fall against the euro in the past six months to €1.32 to the pound, the UK’s economy in 2008 is now 4 per cent smaller than France.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/abe2ffc4-c08b-11dc-b0b7-0000779fd2ac.html

THANKS TO WIKIPEDIA TO UPDATE ITS DATA !!!

Frederick CARLES-FONT (carlesfjf@yahoo.com)

• Misplaced Pages good articles
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