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Grace Talarico di Capace

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Grace Talarico di Capace (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

At first glance, this article seems to be reasonably well written and sourced (and surprisingly detailed); but if one reads it carefully, one will notice that it never actually manages to say that the subject has ever done anything notable. That's not the main problem, though. I've examined all of the sources cited in the article, save one, and none of them contains a single mention of this woman or her family or any member thereof. (The one I haven't looked at is the vaguely cited "American Society of Portrait Artists." This, however, is used only to establish that the woman once had a portrait painted of herself, which, whether or not it's true, is not enough to write an article around.) Moreover, every one of the 19 unique Google hits for "Grace Talarico di Capace" or "Grazia Talarico di Capace" is WP, a WP mirror, or a link to WP. In short, what we have here is, in the most generous possible interpretation, a mass of unverifiable original research disguised by deceptive references. Deor (talk) 01:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Delete, per excellent nom rationale. If it's not a hoax (as the lack of sourcing would lead me to believe), then this person was certainly not notable anyway. Lankiveil 01:29, 17 February 2008 (UTC).
• Delete thanks to well-researched nom. No real demonstration of the notability of the subject is made in the article. Darkspots (talk) 02:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Do Not Delete

• Hey Deor howz it goin!

• I became interested in Grace TdC because of the artist J. Zangwell Gilbert. Gilbert is an important Alumni of the American Academy of Art who also shared his time teaching kids about art at O. A. Thorp Academy. Grace's portrait and her bio was listed in the American Society of Portrait artists published in unison with Utrect, a prominent art supply company.

• She and her family were essential to Pucci's Roman salon during the 60's and she is well talked about in Roma the appendage to that Florentine exhibition book on Pucci. I was super interested in her because she is from a visagoth family, how cool is that !!!, and she was involved with pucci as a teenager, and I am a BIG BIG fan of Pucci! She was also linked to the artist Roulle who I also love!!! This ex-surfer dude is a sucker for anything 60's, Mod, and with water, as you already know, especially Venice- the only city surfin on Water!!!

• I first created articles on Thorp Academy and Ruolle, and then moved on to this one which isn't fully polished yet. I want to add pics to both this one and the Ruolle one, but checking on copy rights- any who. 1st, anyone intersted in Italian fashion designers will appreciate the additional info contained within the article about the pucci Roman salon- it is also written in a great context to other fashion topics too, like Battistioni which has no info on wikipedia, people into fashion will apperciate that. 2nd, there is a nice tie in to give some Visagoth info as well-which is also useful info for Misplaced Pages. It is just a great little article that gives some super info about Pucci's Roman salon, and the crucial people that made the important fashions out it- there is additional info to Gina Lollobridgida- it's all worthwhile info. I'll polish it more, Deor, but ya gotta give me a chance to rest now and then, researching is hard work. Any who, kudos to the dude that put up the picture to my Nymphaeun section I wrote on the Villa Barbaro page- Looks great! See if someone can also track down a pic of the Timpietto too! Oh well, great talkin to ya Deor, gotta get a bite to eat, haven't eaten dinner yet! Talk to ya soon Deor, McTMctrain (talk) 03:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Delete Nice catch by the nominator. The large number of references that don't actually mention the subject strongly indicates a hoax, but even if the informations is correct there's no indication of notability. Edward321 (talk) 04:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep It It has some good fashion information, and is well written. More info about her might also surface.Stylestarry (talk) 05:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC) This template must be substituted.

• Delete, well-crafted hoax. --Dhartung | Talk 05:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep it, Can't hurt, especially in comparison to half of the other articles outthere.Gubbergirl (talk) 05:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC) This template must be substituted.
• Delete Now that some suckpuppets have crawled out of their hole, it cements my belief that this article should go. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 05:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me, "gubbergirl" and "stylestarry" are my daughters, which I told them that if they wanted to voice their opinion about this article- that they would have to create their own account not to be confussed with mine. They are not sock puppets, nor is this a hoax- I am a well documented contributor to wikipedia. Thank youMctrain (talk) 05:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment: Please note that the enlistment of meatpuppets is, for all practical purposes, the same as sockpuppetry. —Travis 19:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Delete: Most likely a hoax. Good work nominator! Seicer (talk) (contribs) 06:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Gary King (talk) 09:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete, the person who painted her portrait may be notable, but there's no evidence she is. It's a wikimirror farm! Travellingcari (talk) 23:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Move and revise DELETE to Talarico di Capace. The material looks more like an overview of a minorly notable family, but completely fails to assert the singular notability of 'Grace'. IF this were all moved to a page for the family, the sourcing and such might meet notability standards, and if not, should be examined for that distinct criteria ('is the talarico di capace family notable enough, in toto, for a page?' ) ThuranX (talk) 19:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment. And what sources do you recommend using? Deor (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Reply. The article as stands has seven unique sources. Seems something useful can be culled from that. As for the attitude you're throwing around, watching you poke and provoke another editor as you've been doing is quickly looking like a Bad Faith/POINT violation, with a salting of stalking. There's no evidence of sockpuppetry, as he freely admits to the identities of the two other editors, and the closing admin can take that for wahtever it's worth; you still have yet to show that this is a hoax, and not just a non-notable figure. but you sure love dropping those accusations left and right. No clue what your problem with Mctrain is, but it sure reads to me like you're going after him. I recommend you back off fast. ThuranX (talk) 20:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

The article has no sources that contain information about anyone named Talarico di Capace. And I've said nothing about sockpuppetry or hoaxes. Deor (talk) 21:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

In light of the later evidence that there is a long term, wide ranging hoax going on here, I've changed to Delete. ThuranX (talk) 06:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• Delete Hoax, as an examination of the evidence shows. And the article creator's argumentative tone seems somewhat familar. --Calton | Talk 11:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• • This is not true she is talked about in both the Florentine exhibition work on Pucci within the "Roma" appendage, and she has a whole bio in the American Society of Portrait Artists listing too. I don't know why some say she is not listed. That is why I even listed the article under Grace, rather than just the family, because the family info is contained under her specific heading. Also, I said too that I was looking into adding her portrait as well. And why are the Gilbert lithos flagged when thay have even been added by the Joel Gilbert group that has all copy rights over gilbert's work, and why is a magnet school like Thorp academy also being flagged, when there are articles about tiny schools of no importance with crude sources, vs. the official ones that I posted from an objective third party source. This is all a game, because someone got duped into believing that there was a hoax that doesn't exist, and now no matter what someone does around this topic- they are out to get them. Listen, your Vitus theory of him not existing is bogus, go check www.avoision.com for yourself, and pay attention to the profanity that people even said about him. Anyone can pop his name into some bogus article on Misplaced Pages as a target- but the guy is real- lay off of him and his family history, face up that you were wrong, and put it to rest.Mctrain (talk) 22:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Administrators are Responsible for Fueling Damage

I am McTrain and this is the last time that I will EVER be making a comment on Misplaced Pages or contributing my hard work ever again. Let's talk about what has occured. 1) the Lucien Roulle page has now also been flaged, because he is "not notible" when a basic search will pull up much talk about what is a very important artist. 2) A page on O.A. Thorp Scholastric Academy has also been flagged for not only the same reason, but for also needing citations and supposedly not having info from the sources listed-but its is a magnet school, that even has a city seal on the talk page, it is completely cited, and if you check those sources and open up the pages that lead to Thorp Scholastic Academy- one will discover that every bit of info is coming from those sources. Now, my entry on the "skull and crossbones" page about WWI ace Ruffo di Calabria's symbol being a skull and crossbones has also been removed. But if you search right now "ruffo di calabria skull" you should find that same page called "nieuport 17" (the type of plane di calabria flew) that is under mars.ark.com/-mdf/N_17.htm/. There is a picture of his white plane and his SKULL AND CROSSBONES emblem.

I have never seen such mindless destruction in my life of good knowledge- except maybe when Nazis decided to burn books they did not like or understand- destroy away barbarians! You deserve to remain ignorant, since you don't care about information, just the sport of wanting to see blood- great job DEOR for being the one responsible for screaming "fire in a crowded theatre" and causing great damage across the boardMctrain (talk) 15:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

EXCUSE ME, Do not remove what I have written ever again- it is very appropriate to see the damage that has occurred here, and who is responsible for that damage- there is nothing to hide- if you peoople want to destroy- than destroy away, but do it knowing full well that I am innocent- when people scream accusation of me being a hoaxer and spreading lies about my contributions, such as the "skull and crossbones" entry, than I have every right to defend myself and my reputation.Mctrain (talk) 15:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC) If you want to see this perfectly good page deleted , than voice you opinion below, but don't you dare silence me or what is the truth.Mctrain (talk) 15:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• WARNING: Do not remove my comment ever again by your vandalism and attempts to silence what is going on here- and don't you dare say that my defending my innocence is uncalled for. I know, the truth must be difficult to accept when all we have goin on here is a mindless blood bath- but if you want to pull the trigger- and kill good work, that is YOUR choice, but do it full knowing that I am innocent and my work is just. There is no reason to hide my comment, except for your own guilty conscience. If you want to see this article deleted, than voice your opinion below- but don't you dare remove what is a VERY appropriate sentiment that I have a right to express. Some of you people have the audacity to throw around accusation about innocent people and fuel nonsense about hoaxes, than have the nerve to expect people to stand for it. Some of you administrators throw a rock, that breaks a window, and then you run away and say what happened? Voice your own opinion below, don't try to cover up the truth of mine. Mctrain (talk) 15:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

The premise of the argument for deletion is based, first and foremost, on an untruth. 1st, she is completelty talked about in both sources of Pucci within the "Roma" atelier appendage, with even photos of her and her work, and in the American Society of Portrait artists. Then, the Julian Gilbert page was also damaged because the refrence said "Chicago Utrech Portriat Artists" which is just another way of saying the American Society of Portrait Artists, which you will see if you go to www.asopa.com that the major sponsor of the exhibition publication is in fact Utrecht, a very old and important art supply company. Then, if you google Julian Gilbert, you get nothing, but then how come excellent lithographs depicting the work of the artist was able to to be posted, and how can any artist even have lithographs published if he is not already in high demand. So this stupid google search theory of notariety is completely BS. Go google Messina footwear, you will get nothing, go google Battistoni, you will bearly get anything too, yet I was able to finsd a link and even a reference to it in a well known movie. The very source that was also used in the article stresses how important the Messina footwear alteier is to Milan. Enough is enough, this article is sourced with all information coming from those sources and is an excellent fashion related article that many people would appreciate. There is no arguement here for deletion, just a bunch of lies set forth to unjustly destroy. Mctrain (talk) 17:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I DEMAND ANSWERS TO WHAT IS GOING ON HERE

Edward 321 has removed a comment on his talk page that I wrote. I specifically asked him why the article on O A THORP Scholastic Academy is being flagged. The articel is ablout a MAGNET SCHOOL of distinction, it is in the scope of Project Chicago, and it is completely referenced by every source given. There is no answer given to why this is going on. I had enough of this garbage. What kind of unscrupulous and unjust behavior is going on here. Why was my reference to Ruffo and Skull and Crossbones removed again when I even added a 3rd link to prove what was written- what the hell is gong on here. We all have a right to know, PLEASE DO TELL!Mctrain (talk) 17:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

There is No Rational Argument for Deletion

It is an excellent fashion related articel that talks about many valid sources of information, It is completely written and cited from the sources given, and it is an article that many people interested in fashion would get a lot out of. Enough with bogus claims and false acusations. Every answer given above for delation has all been refuted and proven not to be the case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mctrain (talk • contribs) 18:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete Looking at the 29 results from a google search under "Grace Talarico" was interesting, and there's a realtor in Chicago who, if not a fashion designer, is "the amazing home closer". Whether this is real or not real, it's not a well-constructed article, jumping back and forth between the person and her family, and J. Zangwell Gilbert. I'm wondering now about whether the article on Julian Z. Gilbert (5 ghits) shouldn't be nominated for a review as well. Mandsford (talk) 18:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• yeah, and go google Messina, which gets nothing as well as Caraceni and Battistoni, which would barely get anything too, and go read what flusser says about those establishments and how important they were, are ,and continuwe to be- I love this "google as standard of importance", theory- give me a break, popularity and importance are two differnt things, and it was suppose to be an article talkning about her/her family's importance to Pucci's impact in Roman fashion during the 60's.Mctrain (talk) 19:52, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• By the way, her name is "Talarico di Capace", and not realted to any Talaricos- you would benifit from the article that talks about the difference between the two- further proof of the value of its existence. Just another attempt by someone again who prefers to destroy than have added available info for people out there, even a child like "gubbergirl" can see that having as much information out there for people "can't hurt" to spread more knowledgeMctrain (talk) 19:57, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Why are People so Mean Spirited and Quick to Destroy information is only for the good of everyone, the less you have access to , the less you will know about life- period.Mctrain (talk) 20:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• I really had enough of this, because the basis of all of this is nothing more than some people's interest in hoaxes, and I don't have time to waste with that any more- Deor who began this has the power to stop this and bring peace to a situation he is responsible for creating turmoil with- there was nothing wrong with this article or the others that got slashed in the process of this- some people just have hatred in their hearts, and they get off in being the "Jihad" of Misplaced Pages- destroying everything in their way that took much hard work to build up- oh well, such is life- lossers always destroy rather than build. and I will not waste any more time dealing with this- I have become turned off to Misplaced Pages, my joy has been diminished, there is too much bad Karma associated with you people, and I do not respect anyone who destroys and doesn't even have the good nature to correct what was started based on a lie, a prejudice of a hoax that isn't real, and an unfair treatment of a well documented editor. I am done with this- truth and goodness lies in your hands from this point forward, I am done with Misplaced Pages- too many childish "hoax" nonsense is below me. Good bye- done talking. If anything, I hope Deor has learned a valuable lesson about with his destructive actions can do to people's feelings and to knowledge available on Misplaced Pages, it's a shame, because Deor and I started out perfectly fineMctrain (talk) 20:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
• Comment I have no opinion on the AfD, but I find it personally offensive that the article creator got his children involved in this oh-so-important Internets debate. JuJube (talk) 20:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• They asked if they could post too, is a parent suppose to say no to that- how ridiculous.Mctrain (talk) 21:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. As an aside, I find there to often be a correlation between the number of comments by an article's creator and the lack of notability of its subject. Maxamegalon2000 00:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete, hoax, part of the whole Vitus Barbaro hoaxage from last year. Once again resolving to the Chicago area. What a surprise. Corvus cornix_talk 00:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

No matter what anyone says, no matter what anyone proves, no matter that the premise of this page is based on a lie(she is fully listed in two sources given), no matter even when evidence is given that Vitus is a real person (www.avoision.com)- so many of you want to perpetuate lies about hoaxes. It is many of the administrators that do that- they start all of the hoax garbage, and I love that Vitus is not mentioned anywhere in any of these articles- yet he is still unfairly a target. And I also love how all of these guys who built their premise on Vitus not being a real person, still trys desperately to hold on to their fantasy of a hoax about his existence, when it has been proven that he does exist. The bottom line is your premise for attacking this article is based on a desire to to destroy, perperuate hoaxes, and is plain mean spirited. Even ThuranX stated , "sure love to drop accusations left and right... seems to me like you are going after him." Yes, very true, so if irrationality, triumphs over truth, well I don't know what more to say. The very premise of tagging the page is a lie, she is listed in two of those sources, and Vitus is proven to be real, the very basis of your hoax theory- so what can anyone say to someone that has it out for another person, except that you better get back onto your meds! There is not a single thing more that I can say that I haven't already said- and let's see if the blood thirsy mob chops the head off of this completely just article. i'll hope for the best"Mctrain (talk) 00:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Wow

Hah. I just found this in looking through the history of this coordinated hoax: The current legitimate holder of the Albergo branch's titled names is Vitus Sebastian Barbaro (born on July 27, 1973). His father is Sebastiano (born on July 18, 1935). His mother is Baronessa Grazia Talarico di Capace (born on July 2, 1946).. So this whole article and all of the supposed family members, is just one more link in the ridiculous hoax. It makes my wonder why, if "Vitus Sebastian Barbaro" is really a famous Italian prince, this article doesn't mention him or his father? Corvus cornix_talk 01:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

65.141.156.175 (talk · contribs), one of the major contributors to this article, resolves to Chicago, the center of the whole Fenwick High School/Vitus Barbaro/Pugalist Club/Skull and Crescent hoax. Corvus cornix_talk 01:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh Wow e Wow What a great find- the case is cracked! I even told Deor that when I started editing this article, that I was interested in the current family and that I knew a little about them, but that I wanted to learn more about the current members. I also know that Vitus worked for the Art Institute of Chicago on the Bruce Goff Exhibition, that I wanted to add, but didn't because Deor said it would fuel hoax rumors, which are here anyways, and I can even cite him in the exhibition catalogue too with an ISBN number, and I also told Deor that Grace was linked to Lucien Ruolle previously, and I worked on the Thorp Academy article because Julian Gilbert was involved with teaching kids there too. You are the only one that wants to believe that real people are a hoax. The only hoax is that stupid scared order skull BS where someone put his name into that. Everthing else about the guy and his family is real- and of course there is going to be other people out there writing about him and his family too- it is proof that they are significant, that is surprising to you and constitutes a hoax? I wrote about all of these article at the same time: lucien ruolle and grace TdC, and Thorp Academy, and julian gilbert etc. because the sources were simliar, and had overlap and because all of theses people and topics are interelated. I have also written about baseball, basketball and other sports at the same time too, because all of those topics are interelated. I have also written about fly fishing, creels, wicker, and bamboo at the same time too because all of those topics are interelated. Pretty logical isn't it, it makes pulling out sources from the library easier when you can use the same ones to write about many similar topics at the same time, but I guess logic here is not in high demand Mctrain (talk) 01:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Enough with this bogus witch hunt that began on a false premise of her not being listed in those sources, a lie. This woman is a Baroness of Alaric's family, attached to Pucci and other notable fashion houses, and one of our own, an American. She is more significant than any of us will ever be in our lives. Go pick on that crappy House of Borghese article that has no sources, at least two phoney people on it, and that bogus Lorenzo is the worst, and no one picks on that, that has been that way for years, while Vitus is completely listed in official records as the real deal as the one designated to take on the family title from his former courtesy title of Baron dell'Albergo. Enough, leave my good sourced work alone and go focus your attention else where, like that House of Borghese crap that has been listed that way for years- with no citations, no sources- talk about hypocracy!Mctrain (talk) 04:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• Delete as fundamentally unverifiable. Hoax or not is irrelevant, WP:V is the key here. Guy (Help!) 12:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• BULLSHIT!, This woman is listed as well as her family in the sources given!!!!! Completely verifiable in the sources given!!!! And this topic is a topic that has been targeted unfairly by Deor from day one based on Deor's lie and untruth at the top of this page. The House of Borghese page is sitting right now, for years, with no references, no citations, has a person of Rod Borghese listed as a notible person who is not even relatated to the family, and nothing is done about that. But this page and certain others are constantley attacked and scutinized ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOGH. This page is perfectly fine and has been unfairly targeted as well as others, such the Julian Gilbert page, that has even been targeted for its pictures, which have even been added by one of his own relatives. ENOUGH, of the stalking and trouble making and lies of gestapo NAZI tactics that have been occuring here. Who the Hell do you think you are to lie deor and say that this topic is unverifiable, when she is completely verifiable in the sources given! Deor started this page off with a BIG FAT LIE. He never checked a single source, as he said he did, because if he had, she is FULLY listed in two of those sources given. So why should I tolerate all of the BS about a hoax, when it is not a hoax, or talk of being unverifiable, when it is completely verifiable, or talk of irrelevance, when it is completely relavent to the topics of: fashion, and pucci , and messina, and battistoni, and Alaric, and nobility in general, and cinecitta, Gina Lollobridgida and the Roman film industry- it has information pertaining to all of these RELEVANT topics- I am sick of blood thirsty people that all they want to do is destroy, basing an argument on lies- when truth is glossed over, and countless other articles sitting with no sources or citations or even relevance is left alone. There is nothing more than NAZI, stalking, and abusive tactics ocurring with this page- and the flagging begun by nothing more than a mean spirted person who had it out for the topic from day one based on a prejudice- and not based on facts. And if all of you are willing to let knowledge be destroyed base on that- it is a sorry day indeed for Misplaced Pages- or should I say NAZIpedia, who wants to destroy knowledge, and base REASONS on BIG FAT LIES. This is nothing more than Misplaced Pages Hitler sending an honest article to the gas chambers. The great Misplaced Pages Holocost!!! And it is the principlae of it all that pisses me off more than anything- a person puts in hard work and time putting together a honest article, and this is how they are treated for it- not a thank you for giving additional knowledge, but rather destruction. I am sick and tired of that, and from this point forward I will not curb my tone, nor what I have to say, nor my vocabulary- when no respect is given to my work, and irrational animals take over, and lies are perpetuated- then I will respond appropriately- If wikipedia doesn't respect the good work of its editors than I will not respect the admiistrators who clearly have psychological problems with stalking and targeting certain articles,having said that, FUCK YOU DEOR for trying to destroy a page based on a BIG FAT LIE at the very top. YOU started all of this based on a lie , and now I will make YOU the focus for what you have done- you FUCKIN LIAR! How do you like that! If wkipedia is run by Nazis who are willing to have another holocost to perfectly fine articles,all courtesy and descent behavior is off.Misplaced Pages editors are willing to destroy work based on a LIE for their agenda, all courtesy is gone. Don't you dare send over a notice about proper tone and vocabulary used on this page- when rules, and truth have been thrown out the window. I have lost my patience as countless others have after they have been tartgeted and abused by people like Deor. You think you can treat people this way, base things off on a lie, and expect people to put up with that- you do all the wrong things, stalk people's good work, set up arguments basd on lies that spiral things out of control, and expect people to put up with that. You trash people's good reputaions and say lies of hoaxes, and you expect people to put up with that. Even administrator ThuranX said, and I quote, "You sure do love to throw around the accusations of hoaxes left and right... and that you better lay off of targeting this guy", in references to how Deoe has treated me. DEOR is responsible for this mess!DEOR started all of this!DEOR is responsible for trashing reputations!DEOR is a person perpetuating hoaxes, DEOR has done nothing to stop what is occuring here, DEOR is at fault acrosss the board for basing this whole page on a big fat lie!And for that,FUCK YOU!FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU DEOR!And don't you dare send me a warning to watch my tone, you big fat fucking liar- I do not respect liars,nor do I respect Misplaced Pages that puts up with their admministrators who are liars. You expect people to behave civial when you trash theoir reputations and spread lies about being hoaxers, GO FUCK YOURSELF. and you know what Misplaced Pages can go Fuck itself too, it has the power to stop what is going on here, ther is nothing wrong with this page, so if they won't do the right thing too, than all bets are off- I will say what ever i feel from this point over- rationality and fairness has been thrown out the wind in this case!Mctrain (talk) 15:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

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