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Revision as of 20:13, 11 March 2008

Tanthalas39

Voice your opinion (talk page) (14/8/0); Scheduled to end 00:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Tanthalas39 (talk · contribs) - Very recently, I joined the coaching project as an admin willing to coach other editors. I couldn't have been more fortunate with the editor that I ended up being paired with. Please, allow me to introduce to you, User:Tanthalas39, AKA Dan. At the onset of the coaching, I told Dan that I was looking at a June or July RfA. Then a May RfA. As we proceeded through the coaching process, the date kept moving earlier and earlier based on the clue that this editor has. Based on Dan's contributions and his willingness to delve into unfamiliar areas with grace and thoughtfulness, I'm completely convinced that there is no need for further coaching. He's ready, right now (and was probably ready before signing up for coaching). Tanthalas is more than qualified to be an admin based on our coaching page. To talk about his contributions a bit: he has made several reports to AIV, he has begat several articles (I'm sure he'll include them in the answer to Question 2). His contribs to deletion discussions are sound and policy based. More recently, he has added his thoughts in RfAs and ANI. Looking at his contribs, I can't find any evidence of incivility nor lack of knowledge. He is one of the most well-rounded non-admin editors that I've had the good fortune to come across. Seriously, I've clicked on virtually every single contrib of Dan's and I can't find a single reason not to allow him to continue to build this crazy little encyclopedia with the admin tools. I'm convinced he will be a net positive to our community and will only help us, not hinder, by giving him extra buttons. I'm pleased to present to you, esteemed community, Tanthalas39 - Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 00:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:

I accept this nomination. Tanthalas39 (talk) 00:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What admin work do you intend to take part in?

A: I intend to use the administrator tools in the article deletion arena (AfD, PROD, CSD) and occasionally in page protection. As I often have bits and pieces of time during the day to vandal fight, I would be able to put the tools to use there to block chronic vandals. I watchlist WP:AN and WP:ANI, and although I don't feel I would step into each and every problem that comes up, if it is one that I am comfortable and experienced with, I will. Otherwise, there's typically other administrators with different areas of expertise that can cover. Tanthalas39 (talk) 00:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

2. What are your best contributions to Misplaced Pages, and why?

A: Article writing is definitely what I like most about my Misplaced Pages time, although I find myself doing other things more often because of the time demands of quality article expansion. I belong to four Wikiprojects, and am most active in the WP:AZ project - I have made significant contributions to Homolovi Ruins State Park, Oracle State Park, Bonytail chub, and Tarantula hawk, among others. I also significantly expanded Landing at Kip's Bay to contribute to the American Revolutionary War Task Force, a project I have plans to contribute more to soon. Also, Tahquitz. As one could observe, I especially enjoy stub expansion. My editing style tends to be rather compressed - I use "show preview" extensively, so my mainspace edits are fewer and larger. Tanthalas39 (talk) 00:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: Of course I have been in "conflicts", although I don't think I have ever been stressed over it. There are several ways of dealing with conflicts, depending on the context and nature of the problem. Talk page discussions are obviously always best, compared to a short, snarky edit summary comment. Sometimes a civil yet firm hand is required, other times if you just wait a few hours and let things cool off, things work out much better than escalation. I have not been in any sort of content argument yet, as I tend to edit more history or fact oriented articles with little to no POV. However, I do participate in 3O, and if I had an issue I couldn't work out on an article talk page, that would be the first place I would go. I always keep in mind that Misplaced Pages is never complete, and it won't kill me for information in an article to not adhere to my desires while a conflict is being worked out elsewhere. It really seems that most heated arguments start with people that need instant gratification on their POV of where the article should go. Tanthalas39 (talk) 00:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Optional questions from Yngvarr:

4. What action would you take for an AFD which has delete comments which vastly outnumber those for keep, yet no policies or guidelines are cited for either case?

First of all, thank you for some extra questions, Yngvarr. This is pretty straightforward for me as a non-admin, in that I always strive to not let prior opinion have undue weight in my own decision (a viewpoint I hope some editors practice in this RfA!). See my AfD edit here as a good example of my "reversing" a trend vote. As an administrator, I would first of all make sure I had ample time to address the issue - without more context, it sounds like some looking-into is called for. Did anyone mention anything, some clues to notability or applicable policy that I can look up? If not, then without clear-cut policy, I would really like to see more input. Perhaps a relisting with a note asking users to cite relevant Misplaced Pages policies. I do consider myself as leaning towards the deletionist side of things, but always under the umbrella context of Misplaced Pages policy. Borderline cases are one thing; this one seems to be a case of no one taking the AfD seriously. Tanthalas39 (talk) 16:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

5. While reviewing AIV, you've noticed that a reported user (not IP) has several final warnings, but each occurring several days apart, and the editor has ceased their current behavior. What would you do?

I've seen a lot of situations like this. There's no way I would block this user at the moment; anonymous editing of Misplaced Pages is a fundamental piece of the "editable by everyone" doctrine and unduly punishing this user for the past transgressions of others is inappropriate. The question above is a tad unclear - was there very recent vandalism that caused the report? Then an appropriate warning is probably due. Did someone report the user for something that happened days ago ("ceased their current behavior")? Then my action would be to do nothing. Most of these "problem IPs" are from schools or community access points, and I am always loath to restrict a potentially helpful student or citizen because of the past vandal issues. Unless the vandalism is problematic at this moment - no block is warranted. I just answered that question while thinking that the user in question WAS an IP. Is reading questions properly a prerequisite for adminship? I left my answer there in case anyone was curious to how I would answer it for an anonymous user. In the interest of getting answers up on the board, I am going to post the rest of these now, standby for an answer to this one. Tanthalas39 (talk) 16:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

In this case, more context might be necessary - if they have ceased their current behavior, why is there an issue? What exactly were they "final warned" for? Has someone reported them for further vandalism / policy transgressions / etc? If they truly have 'ceased their current behavior', I would probably just keep a close eye on the user for a day or two. Tanthalas39 (talk) 16:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

In my example, the contribs for this editor show no productive contributions, and vandalizes until a final warning is issued, then ceases to edit for several days, and comes back later to vandalize until racking up another final warning. Yngvarr (c) 16:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. With that context, it seems clear that this falls under the "vandal-only account" category, and a block is warranted under this, with a watchlist to see if the user wants to contest the block. I've seen different timelines from different administrators, with some going directly to an indefinite block for especially egregious vandalism, to a one-week just to staunch the current problem. I think at first I would err on the side of caution and block for a week or two, but it seems one would soon enough get a good sense of what constitutes a "vandal account" and take appropriate action. Tanthalas39 (talk) 16:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

6. An edit war erupts between a registered user and an IP editor. Both parties are heated and borderline civil. What steps would you take when neither party is willing to concede?

While it is tempting to give more consideration to the registered user, I would really have to treat both cases with equal weight. Registering as a user is not required to participate in the Misplaced Pages project. I would first step in as an "official" 3O, not using administrator status but hoping that a third opinion itself will sway things one way or the other. I participate in 3O myself from time to time, and understand how valuable it can be. If that doesn't work, well, is the dispute about policy? Perhaps a policy talk page discussion, which would certainly draw other experienced users, might be appropriate; there might be a noticeboard that works well, too. All other things exhausted, I would turn the editors to the Mediation Cabal. Tanthalas39 (talk) 16:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Not Nice but well meant Questions from Pedro :  Chat  16:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

7. Under what circumstance would you apply WP:IAR to a Speedy Deletion?

A. Definitely not nice, as you said, but a fair question and it gives me the opportunity to relay some thoughts on Misplaced Pages policy. Occasionally, some users like to cite Misplaced Pages policy and interpret it literally. While this is usually a fair practice, sometimes it skews things to obeying "the letter of the law" and not the spirit. Like I mentioned in the AfD I posted in Question 4, I prefer to look into the article and determine if notability is possible. Not to quote the WP:IAR interpretation page, but does the addition improve Misplaced Pages? Is it possible for the article subject to be notable and encyclopedic? With cleanup and expansion, does the article have a chance to meet Misplaced Pages policy?

Sitting here pondering this question, it occurs to me that a lot of WP:CSD is short and probably purposefully ambiguous anyways, so you can almost re-create that acronym to "Interpret All Rules". For example, a {{db-context}} tag is added to a short page about a potentially notable subject. Does the speedy tag meet the applicable criterion, "Very short articles lacking sufficient context to identify the subject of the article."? Possibly, maybe probably. However, if I can see where the creator of the article is going with it, and I feel that good faith is applicable, then I might remove the speedy tag and add a note to the article talk page and user talk page that the article is lacking X, Y and Z and it needs to be added ASAP. For more insight into my speedy deletion thought process, see Assignment #4 on my coaching page. Tanthalas39 (talk) 17:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

8. What are your personal standards for granting rollback to an editor?

A. Good question. I was granted rollback rights back in January. The editor would have to show that they are there to build up Misplaced Pages, not to bring down other users. There is a fundamental difference there that exists, I think. Most vandal-fighters fall into the first category; a small minority simply like to show ownership of articles and/or are power-hungry. I think a five- or ten-minute glance through the editor's contributions would show this rather definitively - are warnings (and associated levels) given responsibly? Is there any hint of malice, sarcasm, or other uncivil behavior? Does the editor show sufficient experience? I don't think I'm an edit-counter; I prefer to look directly through contributions themselves to get a feel for content and texture. In a more subjective frame, does the editor enjoy giving warnings and reverting edits that they feel aren't contributive? If I feel the editor is motivated by clean articles and not by trout-slapping other editors, I would grant rollback rights. Tanthalas39 (talk) 16:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

9. A brand new account creates a particularly nasty attack page, filled with homophobic abuse, that you speedily delete. The account then vandalises your user page with more homophobic abuse. These are the accounts only edits. Do you block? If so for how long?

A. Yes, I would block, and indefinitely. This is pretty clear-cut to me, and certainly not out of any state of offense or retaliation. The account is plain and simply a vandal-only account with no apparent redeeming qualities. The user can always contest the block in the unlikely scenario they feel the block was unjustified. Tanthalas39 (talk) 17:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

In response to Balloonman regarding this question, I would defer to other administrators if there was personal malice or COI or some other shred of reason for the vandalism - does this user personally know me? Could I possibly be blocking them for non-policy reasons? However, I really don't think in this case that I would need to get other administrators involved, although I could be wrong, I suppose. If that's the case, I still don't think that shows a lack of policy knowledge on my part, and I really don't think that any other administrator would view what I did as out of line or inappropriate. As I said, the user can always contest the block if he/she feels that I did it in a retaliatory sense. Tanthalas39 (talk) 17:36, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Questions from EJF Being neither inclusionist nor deletionist, I will not oppose due to your answers. However, they may strengthen my support. EJF (talk) 18:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

10. Do you believe notability should become policy?

A. Thanks for your interest in my RfD, EJF. No, I do not believe notability should become policy. There's just no real way to make it work; notability is inherently too foggy of an area to paint lines on - and to be honest, I think it works fine the way it is, now. The discourse created by guidelines, rather than rules, keeps a balance to Misplaced Pages that I hold as crucial. The balance of inclusionists and deletionists discipline and channel the direction of Misplaced Pages articles. Tanthalas39 (talk) 18:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

11. Similar to Q4 In an AfD, those that support keeping an article claim that it meets verifiability despite only primary sources. Those supporting deletion claim the article fails the notability guideline, as it does not have any significant secondary sources. The "deletes" outnumber the "keeps" by 3:1. What would you do?

A. Some of these questions are hard, as almost every individual issue on Misplaced Pages has its own nuances and I find it almost impossible to give categorical answers. However, in the spirit of the RfA, I'll give it a shot.

Off the top of my head, I would probably close this as a delete, while weighing the robustness of the deletion votes. From WP:V, "Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.". I am a huge advocate of the "verifiability, not truth" doctrine, and if there are no third-party sources that can be found and cited, I'm afraid the article should be deleted. I'm not even certain that the notability arguments are applicable - if it fails WP:V, then notability is moot. However, that all being said, I'm the sort of person that would aggressively go look for a significant third-party citation. If I found one, I would participate in and post my finding in the discussion itself, rather than trying to use it to arbitrate. Tanthalas39 (talk) 18:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

General comments

• See Tanthalas39's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.

• Links for Tanthalas39: Tanthalas39 (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Tanthalas39 before commenting.

Discussion

• Comment from nominator. I hope I'm not stepping out of line here, and forgive me with a thwack, Tanthalas, if I am. This RfA is here because I pushed it to be here, not Tanthalas. Dan is far from being "power hungry". In the course of our admin coaching (which I hope has been read by supporters and opposers), it became obvious early on that Dan had, as balloonman calls them, the "soft skills" necessary to be an admin. The opposes that are turning up here for "lack of time here" are my fault, not Dan's as I prodded him to do this now instead of May/June as originally planned at the onset of coaching. When someone "gets it", they "get it". Why prolong the inevitable with busywork? He gets it. Additionally, I'll add some perspective as to why I, IMHO, found Dan ready now based on both my own experience at RfA and my prior nom. 1/ I joined in earnest in Aug 07, by January I had no FA or GA experience, I had about 3K edits, mostly copyediting and disambiguation cleanup. Not a single AIV report (still don't). No RFPP experience. Some mild vandy-patrol/userwarning. I went through coaching (JodyB) and I sailed through RfAin Jan 08 (with 2 good noms). In Feb, I nommed Alex.muller, who had about 3500 edits, and 2.5 months experience at the time. No admin coaching, but excellent contribs. I just asked him on his talk, he accepted, he passed with minimal drama. Based on this and several high quality self noms with comparable experience and dedication as Tanthalas, I did not foresee this type of opposition. I see him to be a high quality editor, a primarily content type contributor, (and as correctly pointed out below, edits in "large chunks", see Landing at Kip's Bay which skews the numbers. He has loads of WP:CLUE, a solid desire to build an encyclopedia, and I feel really responsible that he is getting treated this way. Why haven't more questions been asked of him above? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I expected some experience oppositions, as I discussed with Balloonman on his page. Also, I don't want to get defensive; if people think I'm not ready, then okay, I can still work on Misplaced Pages in the meantime. However, I don't think some people are researching this enough. Where are the myriad of questions that "borderline" candidates get? Why is no one commenting on the robust coaching page? I want to respect the communities opinion, and I will. But pseudo-accusations of sockpuppetry? I can't even comment on this. Claims of not being versed in Wiki policy? Give me a chance to show you! Ask me a question or five! Tanthalas39 (talk) 15:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Keeper,

It seems as if the bar is ever being pushed lower due to the oft cited refrain of "adminship is no big deal." Candidates who are passing today would never have stood a chance a year ago because the bar is being lowered. Where do we draw the line? Is 2.5 months enough time? What about a month of solid edits? A week? A day? Why even bother having a review to begin with?

As for asking questions, if the candidate hasn't shown he is qualified with his work history and background, then questions are not going to change a thing. The questions are useful in tilting the balance or querying qualified candidates. If somebody lacks the requisite the experience/background, why bother? Because the nominator or candidate begs for questions?

Again, I personally like Tan, and in a few months I would be happy to support him (assuming he doesn't mess up) but right now, I cannot. Balloonman (talk) 17:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

• The answer to question 9 is an example of why I would be reluctant to grant somebody with limited experience the tools. Once the admin becomes the target of the attack, the admin should defer to other admins to step in. Yes, a block is probably justified, but in order to avoid the appearance of inpropreity, the admin should take the case to ANI and let somebody else make that determination.Balloonman (talk) 17:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks balloonman for your thoughts. I think we'll have to agree to disagree about "qualifications" for adminship, and I have no expectation that anyone would change their opinion, you included. You've made a good faith case based on your own criteria for adminship, and I have absolutely no problem with that or you. My observations of recent RfA activity tell me exactly the opposite, however. "Qualifications" for adminship are most certainly raising, not lowering. Questions never used to be asked. The first admins were appointed. The first bureaucrats self nommed, got 15 "supports", no questions, and then were promoted. To be honest, I'm not a fan of WP:DEAL either. I agree that is a dated appeal that is no longer applicable even though the god-king uttered it. It is a big deal in many people's eyes (if it weren't, we wouldn't have RfA. At the same time, the "critera for adminship" have skyrocketed, out of proportion to the "magnitude of the tools", IMO. It wasn't that long ago that 3mo/3K was sufficient, (I know of at least 3 that passed within the last month at that level), but now they are being speedy closed as WP:SNOW?. All I've appealed to, for Tan's sake, is a fair shake at what is considered a "normal RfA process", rife with questions and thoughtful support/opposition based on contribs, edit history, the Q & A, etc. At the time of posting my first "discussion" here, he hadn't been asked a single clarifying/policy/attitude/scenario question, but had already seen several opposes as if he was a self-nom n00b. I'll admit, it upset me to see that because I pushed him here after a robust (and admittedly quick) admin coaching session. I wasn't expecting to be here already, and in hindsight I wouldn't be. Not because Dan isn't qualified, but because I never expected this style of oppostion for a good editor. I was surprised by his clue. I saw your "decline coaching" post on his talkpage directly above my "accept coaching" post, and I sighed, thinking I'd gotten myself over my head with a long term commitment. But we hit it off, and I knew within days that he didn't need coaching. Hope that helps explain my rationale for being here. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

And for the record, re Q9, that's exactly what I would do as an admin if someone made homophobic or otherwise racist comments on any page. I could care less if it were my own talkpage. That, IMO, would not be controversial. He answered correctly. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

The candidates answer to Q9 is spot on IMHO. The first time something of a similar nature happened to me I reported I blocked indef. and reported it to WP:ANI for transparency. There was unilateral support that this was in effect "collatoral damage" - i.e. one of the pages that was vandalised happened to be my user page, but it made no difference at all to the block. FWIW I actually thought the candidate might skirt this one, suggesting a short term block. No - he's answered honestly and decisevely, and well within acceptable interpretation of policy. That's good. Pedro :  Chat  19:18, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Support

1. Enthusiastic support, as nominator. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 01:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
2. Support, could do with more time here, as you only have four months here doing a lot of editing, but you are doing a lot, and have done well here, and I agree a lot with what Keeper has said. Good luck mate! ~ Dreamy 01:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
3. Support Will do fine with the mop. - Maximillion Pegasus (talk) 02:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
4. Support Unlikely to abuse admin tools. --Siva1979 02:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
5. Can be trusted with the tools. NHRHS2010 03:14, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
6. Support. The only thing that made me nervous is the number of unanswered posts on the user's talk page, however despite this, I still think that Tanthalas39 can be trusted to make good use of the tools. I think this user will make good use of the tools. According to my RfA criteria v1.0, Tanthalas39 gets a score of 92.8% 94.3%. Patrick Hennessey (Speak) 04:17, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

   Candidate response: I rarely, if ever, let a comment to my talk page go unanswered. I usually answer directly on the original poster's talk page. I got used to this while experimenting with the "talkback" tags. It was an unwieldy system at best, so perhaps I should go back to just answering on my own page. However, point is - I don't simply let comments or questions go ignored. Tanthalas39 (talk) 04:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

   Nod... I hate talk pages like his *grin* he does answer on the user's page which makes following conversations hard... but if that's how he likes to do it, there is no rule saying you have to respond on your own page.Balloonman (talk) 05:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

   Well, that takes care of that, if the questions are answered, that satisfies me, it doesn't concern me whether it is on your talk page or the other user's. Thanks for letting me know. I am ammending my support comment because of this new information. Patrick Hennessey (Speak) 05:41, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

   I am ammending my criteria score because of new information. Patrick Hennessey (Speak) 06:14, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

7. Support Stats look good and I trust Keeper's judgement. MBisanz 04:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
8. AGF. I'm not overly concerned by the opposition arguments; 4 months is fine, and in response to Mr. Arritt, we wouldn't have spotted Archtransit no matter when we sysopped him, or whatever is being argued there. We shouldn't disadvantage other candidates because someone skillful got through. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 06:52, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
9. Looks OK and I don't think he is Archtransit. EJF (talk) 08:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

   I'm happy with the answers to questions. Hopefully, the RfA can still be a success. EJF (talk) 18:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

10. I hope he is Archtransit. lulz Niyant (talk) 09:43, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
11. Support. I definitely trust this user with the tools. S/He will make a great administrator. Malinaccier Public (talk) 12:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
12. Weak support Really like the users work and fulfills all my requirements but some´thing is bugging me. I will def. add it if I put my finger on it! --Camaeron (talk) 13:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
13. Support A good candidate who, as noted, contributes in a thoughtful and considered manner. I would encourage the candidate to tread lightly in their first days as an admin, as lack of experience is a (minor) concern. Good luck, UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 13:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
14. Get the sense nominee won't abuse or misuse the tools. The only way to prevent an Archtransit would be to routinely checkuser everyone in so far as the sock puppetry. Afraid I know no way to gauge the likelihood of going rogue within a month, but that's rare. Dlohcierekim 14:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
15. Strong Support Again, I am going to bring up No Big Deal here. We tend to throw this around some, but it seems that its made a big deal during RFA's. This user is a prime example. He is strong in policy's and understands what Admin's are here for, and the power of the tools. He may not have a ton of experience, but look at Keeper's comments above and see that he actually pushed for this RFA to come. He may not have been here for 4 or 5 years, but he grasps the concepts and know's what he is doing. Good luck Tanthalas. I wish you the best. Dusti 17:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
16. Support - Looks like a very solid candidate. He's experienced enough for me. -FrankTobia (talk) 19:49, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
17. Support (from weak oppose) Okay, I'm buying this. Sure, there's some experience issues. Yes, we haven't got categorical evidence from contribution history with respect to the "finer arts of adminship" When someone finds out what they are, can they let me know as well. But the candidate seems ready. Why? Well 1) Look at the clam way he's dealt with this RfA for one - nobacklash, no snarky edit summaries - just a willingness to be transparent and honest. 2) The optional Q's - nothing here that's wildly outside of norms and expectations, and some insightful comments there as well - reasoned and collected thoughts. 3) It just feels right - about the worst reason there may be to support but after further extensive, and I promise very extensive, review and deep consideration I just can't see how this is going to be anything but a .... net positive to Misplaced Pages. Yes, mistakes may happen but the benefit will outway any possible "harm". Best Wishes. Pedro :  Chat  20:13, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose - Definitely on the right track that's for sure, but I think there's an experience issue here. The count breakdown for individual articles is sorely lacking, and the project-space is kinda thin. I applaud the work at WP:AIV, but there's more to being an admin than just vandal fighting. I see the user has also taken an interest at WP:AN. Very good, but I would linger there abit longer. Also, I notice a distinct lack of talking, which is disconcerting. Come back in like 3 months at the most and I'll support you. Wisdom89 _{(T / )} 01:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
2. Oppose I looked at Tanthalas a few weeks ago as a potential admin coachee myself and thought that he was about 3-4 months away from being a viable candidate. When this RfA came up, from a contributor I respect, I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and looked at his contributions again with a fresh eye. My opinion remains unchanged, I think Tanthalas will make a good admin, but I don't think now is the time. Tan became an active contributor in December and almost immediately requested coaching. He has about 3 months of active editing (Dec, Jan, Feb.) If you look at the number of edits on articles, he has about 90 edits on the 15 articles he's edited the most. He's only worked on one article for more than 10 edits. His contributions to article talk space is even worse. He's only made 40 edits on the 15 article talk spaces that he's edited the most---none of which is for more than 4 edits. This shows a complete lack of article development experience or consensus building. User talk is the same story---if you ignore his own page (where he has 22 total edits) he hasn't communicated with other users to a great extent. The only Misplaced Pages category he has an extensive history (with 77 edits) is AIV. Misplaced Pages talk has a TOTAL of 5 edits. While I personally like him and think he may be a fine admin in the future, I don't believe that day is today.Balloonman (talk) 04:05, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

   Comment. Whilst I of course respect your point of view, I would like to point out that a low number of edits to an article does not neccesarily indicate small changes or a lack of editing skill. With Landing at Kip's Bay as an example, Tanthalas39 massively expanded and improved this article in the space of only 4 edits. Patrick Hennessey (Speak) 04:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

3. Oppose per Wisdom89. Given that we've had some adminships blow up in our face lately (the worst case being User:Archtransit) it's prudent to observe candidates a little longer than four months. Raymond Arritt (talk) 04:09, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
4. Oppose Per Balloonman. I don't see anything that says that candidate will abuse the tools but there just isn't enough time spent in discussion to show composure under heated debate or a desire for article building. Just needs to spend more time collaborating and come back with a bit more experience. I agree with Wisdom, discuss things a bit more, participate in article building and come back in a couple months. Adam McCormick (talk) 06:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
5. Oppose I get a feeling of ambition here, which is not necessarily bad, but looking at this , I would gather that the candidate is more interested in being an admin rather than building an encyclopedia. I know my opinion is altruistic (is that the right word here?), but I feel more comfortable with candidates who don't outline a roadmap to adminship. While I'm sure the candidate will be trustworthy, I'd rather see more trenchwork. Yngvarr (c) 10:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
6. Oppose - After looking this candidate over, I cannot support at this time. ArcAngel (talk) 13:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

   Weak Oppose Pluses : Great work so far, great nomination, clearly trustable, solid C:CSD and WP:AIV stuff. Downside : Weak article work, experience as demonstrated by "length of tenure", lack of project space input and the "building up edits to be an admin" comment on your user page. (I note you removed that about three and a half weeks ago). Bluntly, whilst I trust Keeper's opinion I also trust Balloonmans! I really wish you'd perhaps waited a while and participated more in the project side. However, should this RfA not pass I hope you will take positive feedback from the editors here, continue to do what you're doing, and work on those other areas for the future. Very Best.Pedro :  Chat  13:50, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

7. Oppose - low level of Misplaced Pages namespace edits indicates a likely lack of policy knowledge. Stifle (talk) (trivial vote) 14:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

   Comment - I've added some "nominator thoughts" about this RfA to the general discussion section above the support section. I'm hoping it will address some of the good faith concerns brought here. Thanks, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

8. Oppose Some more experience needed. Cxz111 (talk) 17:26, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
9. Oppose you are not for my liking, lack of experience. Try again in a few months time. AndreNatas (talk) 19:09, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Neutral

1. If it were really true that "admin is no big deal", in the sense that it didn't have to be prised from the cold, dead hands of a recalcitrant administrator, then I would be inclined to support this nomination, in spite of the candidate being relatively inexperienced as measured by edit count. So I have a question and a comment:

• What would have to happen/be required for you to resign as an administrator?

Thank you for your interest in my RfA, Malleus. I would unhesitatingly resign as an administrator if there was a consensus that I was using the tools improperly, abusing my power, or otherwise not furthering the interests of the Misplaced Pages project. I am not interested in personal gain or status - I have been proactive in my adminship training simply because I feel that I can help the project. Tanthalas39 (talk) 19:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

• I am slightly worried that you would block an editor as per your answer to Q9. I really would prefer administrators not to do anything that might possibly be interpreted as being personally motivated. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:43, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

This might be a personal opinion of yours, and I can't really change my answer to court your support vote. Of course a block like that "might possibly be" seen as personally motivated, but I think a vast majority of editors (and virtually all administrators) would view what I did as simply a duty in the course of a day - if a brand new account makes homophobic, blatantly egregious vandalism to any two pages in a row, I think it is my responsibility to stop it, regardless if it's to my page, your page, or the main page. The question you have to ask yourself is, is it likely that this editor will quickly come to their senses and start editing constructively to Misplaced Pages, or is it a lot more likely that we'll see more homophobic garbage? Of course there's a modicum of judgment to be made, and without given the exact circumstances of the situation, it's hard to categorically state what I'd do in any situation. This one, however, was more or less cut and dry. Tanthalas39 (talk) 19:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)