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Revision as of 14:42, 24 April 2008

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FNC

Is this edit supposed to be some kind of clever joke that I'm just not getting? My username is AuburnPilot, not AutoburnPilot. I corrected the mistake here and you reverted me. What's up? - auburnpilot talk 12:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

no, not a clever joke. Stupid mistake actually. I had accidentally referred to you as Auburn, and after I saved the edit I read it later and for some reason I thought your name was autoburn pilot. I don't know why I thought that, but I honestly did. I was like, "Oh f*#k, I called him auburn!" I was so sure your username was actually was autoburn I didn't even check, I just fixed it as fast as I could. Maybe I was editing it at the same time as you or soemthing? I'm not sure. But I apologize. I'm certainly not helping my case in the FNC debate by not paying careful attention to your name. I'm sincerely sorry. I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk though. Jsn9333 (talk) 14:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I just fixed it correctly, again, I'm sorry. Jsn9333 (talk) 14:27, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, no worries. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being a complete jackass and missing something obvious. I even looked at the page history to make sure I hadn't missed a user named "autoburn". Thanks for the correction. - auburnpilot talk 20:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

No, I was the one missing something obvious; totally my bad. I hope you will still respond to the comment though. Jsn9333 (talk) 03:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

My mistake

My point is simply this, when AuburnPilot thought you were butchering his name for some stupid joke, he asked you what the deal was. He didn't accuse you of anything. All I wanted from you was the same courtesy AuburnPilot afforded to you. Sometimes agf requires the assumption of a mistake when something seems blatantly out of whack. It would defy logic and ruin all my credibility on this project to so blatantly pick against you and favor Blaxthos by calling you out for doing the same thing he did, especially when he did it first. I just wish you would have asked me or pointed out the selective nature of my edit before accusing me. With that said, I have acknowledged my mistake, and you have told me you accept my explanation. So the issue is dead to me, and I am ready willing and able to move on. Ramsquire 18:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I would be happy to remove the conversation from the thread if you are worried about your reputation. Would that be okay? I'm very sorry to have given you so much angst. AuburnPilot wondered if I was mocking his name, so in that sense I was basically wondering about the motivations behind the selective enforcement. I do suppose a much better route would have been to change my title back and then discuss with you on your talk page. I am sorry, and I will try to do better in the future.

Please don't edit my entry on the FNC page. Anyone who reads it would understand what happened. I don't understand why you are having difficulty with the premise that if something weirds happens, ask first, accuse later. What I said above is if I had did what you thought I was doing, I would lose credibility. I've been here intermittently for years, and have come across thousands of editors through RfCs, RfAs, RfDs, arbitrations and mediations. I am not concerned about any one edit I've made, nor do I have any angst about any one editor. I am trying to give you a small bit of advice of being succesful here, especially since you have already been blocked in your first month of editing. Ramsquire 18:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty friend. Your call. And since we're giving each other advice, here is some for you (no offense intended, as I haven't taken offense to your giving me advice). Perhaps next time you want to accuse someone of being uncivil, you might want to take your own advice and "ask first, accuse later." What you did showed favoritism publicly, resulted in you accusing me publicly of being uncivil, and I called you on it publicly. End of story. You pleaded mistake, and in good faith I believed you. It's over. I could just as easily accuse you of "not assuming good faith faith" for not actually looking into the matter and perhaps talking to me about it before tossing out accusations. Jsn9333 (talk) 21:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

April 2008

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Fox News Channel. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Jauerback/_dude. 03:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I suppose this is because I edited the lead of the Fox News entry twice today. I am curious, did you also warn the person who reverted my edits twice? (TheNobleSith). If not, then why? Thank you. Jsn9333 (talk) 03:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

No, I didn't warn that user, because he/she has a total of 2 edits in 24 hours to this article whereas you already have 4. Granted, not all of them are reverts, but you are closer to violation of WP:3RR than User:TheNobleSith is. A warning is not a threat, it's merely to make you aware and more cautious of your edits. If you feel User:TheNobleSith should be warned, then by all means, warn him/her, but please don't complain to me by pointing to someone else's behavior rather than heeding the advice. Jauerback/_dude. 03:58, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

If I made 4 edits of the lead, then 2 of them were minor punctuation or mistakes of that sort. Do you take that into account? I am not attempting to "complain", but rather am seeking to understand this process better. I'm fairly new here. Thank you. Jsn9333 (talk) 04:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Notification

I have reported your behavior to the administrator noticeboard. You may find the discussion here. /Blaxthos ( t / c ) 23:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Notification per recent ANI

Hi Jsn9333, as per the proposed remedy at ANI (permalink), this is a notice for the implementation of your editing restrictions which will cover the next four weeks (to end on May 23). I was planning on waiting a bit longer, but your recent posts can only serve to inflame the situation (which at least between Blaxthos and Urzatron had been resolved). My hope is that you will come out on the other side of this with no hard feelings and a breadth of edits which will only be to your credit. I urge you to take advantage of this opportunity and try to contribute in some uncontroversial (and I presume not stressful) areas over the next few weeks. Please take care to note the conditions laid out at ANI, and I have to also insist that you not continue this dispute at any involved user's talk page. Thanks, and I truly wish you the best of luck, R. Baley (talk) 00:18, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

As I understand it, the consensus of the editors (that is, the solution the editors agreed on) in the complaint was a much shorter block. Two of the editors, of the four responding, (Blaxthos and I excluded of course) desired a block of a few days to a week, and one of those desired for Blaxthos to be blocked as well. So is your proposed solution simply your advice to me, or are you saying it is the "official" consensus. I'm just not exactly sure what is going on, please clarify for me. Thank you. Jsn9333 (talk) 01:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry it wasn't clear, it's not advice, I will enforce with increasing blocks if necessary. I hope that it is not. Please take advantage of this opportunity to edit in less stressful (or tense) areas of Misplaced Pages. With this remedy, I am trying to avoid having to put anything on your block log. There are plenty of things to do here that are much less contentious; hopefully you will find some of them interesting. Hope this clarifies things, R. Baley (talk) 01:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Also wanted to state clearly, you are not currently "blocked." Blocking is a technical mechanism administrators can use to stop disruption (among other things). You are temporarily banned from editing the FNC or related pages, or from continuing the dispute which arose there. I'm hoping that you can refrain from doing so, so that no actual "block" is necessary. Thanks, R. Baley (talk) 01:56, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I would be happy to edit other articles, and I have always planned on moving on... I just take things one step at a time. Fox News just happens to be the entry that got me interested in editing because I saw a real need for some WP:NPOV work and decided to make an account. The editors at the FNC entry agreed with me to the extent they changed the lead so that independent supporters of Fox News (and not only independent critics) are also mentioned. Things got heated when Blaxthos vehemently opposed the changes, and I regret that. As a side note, I think it is regretful you are not making him face any consequences at all for the documented uncivil and newcomer-biting behavior he has exhibited. Nonetheless, I instituted a change that the editors thought necessary for NPOV, and it was installed by consensus. Those same types of changes are going to be in the future of the controversies sub-article... as is obvious from a quick scan of it. However, I now know to work more slowly and deliberately in consensus building. So, my question... when you say I need to do things that are less contentious, are you saying I need to never again do NPOV work on a Fox News article? Or are you just saying I should get involved in other articles as well? If it is the latter, then that is fine... as I have a lot of topics of interest and don't see a problem jumping into them sooner rather then later. But if it is the former (that I am permanently banned from NPOV work on Fox News entries), then I have serious problems with what you are asking (telling) me to do and will seek out advice from another administrator before complying. So please clarify for me again. Thanks. Jsn9333 (talk) 02:12, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Just the 4 weeks, not forever. I figure in that time you will become more familiar with policies, guidelines, and community norms. After the 4 week period (assuming no real problems arise during that time) it will be up to you to decide if, or when, you want to go back to editing at FNC. Hope this helps, R. Baley (talk) 02:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

A couple of last questions. You mentioned that Blaxthos and Urzatron had resolved their differences. However, my point was not that they hadn't... it was that Blaxthos is shown to be very quick to accuse and insult people, especially newcomers, and I documented that in the complaint (just like he posted comments about me). I would like to know why you are not taking efforts to better "familiarize" him with assumption of good faith, civility, and other WP policies. Can you please tell me? Perhaps you are trying to say he "makes up" with users he offends. Well, if you'll look at his talk page you'll see I have apologized to him (probably more then a week ago at this point) and he completely ignored me... he did not even pay me the respect of a response.

I am having a very difficult time understanding why I am being singled out and he is being left to continue his behavior with no disruption at all. Perhaps it would help if you could show me the diffs where I engaged in behavior grossly different or disproportionate from his, because at this point I can't really differentiate my behavior from Blaxthos'. He is the more experienced editor, and it seems to me that you are banning me for pretty much following his example... yet you are leaving him to continue to bite and to be an example to other newcomers. His history of biting newcomers and inflaming the FNC talk pages is long and documented. No offense, but what gives? Can you clarify some of this confusion? If you can't then I would almost rather you ban me so at least your (what seems to be) double-standard approach to this incident is also documented. Again, no offense intended... I just truly do not understand your reasoning. I'm in law school, so I guess I just have this mindset that actual proof should be shown before someone is singled out and judged. At this point, I have seen proof that both Blaxthos and I (and several other editors) have offended users in the past... in pretty much equal amounts. Jsn9333 (talk) 04:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jsn93333, your continuing "attacks" on Blaxthos will not win you any points. S/he may not have behaved perfectly, but your behavior has been worse. Even while you must have realized you were under scrutiny, your first reaction was to defend yourself (which is ok), but only by going on offense against another editor (definitely not ok), on multiple pages -thus spreading and increasing the dispute. This had the effect of forcing my hand and requiring me to act sooner than I had wished, because I really did want to wait long enough to see if other uninvolved editors would assess the situation and leave their opinion. Always, you should be seeking to defuse situations instead of inflaming them; but before, and more importantly (in my estimation) after! the ANI report, virtually every edit you made had the effect of increasing the tension, not resolving it. I could say more, but I'm not going to. This situation is resolved as far as I'm concerned. . .and I'm not going to debate it. My page is open to any request you might have or advice you might ask. . .but this situation, and the lengthy discussion over it, has to be brought to a close. You have an opportunity here, and I really hope that you will take it. Respectfully, R. Baley (talk) 08:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

(edited to add) Sadly(?), I feel an obligation to watchlist every page I edit now, so there isn't any need, usually, to notify me at my talk page. (if, however, after a day or 2, there is no response, I might have missed it, so leaving a note is fine--no big deal either way really) Best, R. Baley (talk) 08:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

My response toward Blaxthos was the same length as his "offense" toward me in the original complaint, R. Baley. I made sure to keep it that way. Plus much of my response was defense. (beginner meatpuppetry mistake opinion of admins, etc.) I sense you want to end this discussion, but I would appreciate it very much if you're going to ban me like this, for the same exact behavior Blaxthos engages in, if you could differentiate us. Even if I did "offensively" point out the same behavior in Blaxthos in my response... the entire point of that was this question. Why ban only me, when he has done exactly what I have done and he is the more experienced editor? Can you really blame me for wondering about that? If the problem is that I'm not involved in other articles, then I'll be happy to do that. But a month long ban is a little much, especially given that almost half of the editors in the consensus did not agree to that (even the rushed consensus).

Also, there was nothing uncivil happening at the Fox News entry talk page while you were waiting, so it makes no sense that you ended the consensus early. The discussion in the actual complaint was accusatory, but it was that way by nature... it begins with Blaxthos stating accusations against me. The discussion there was on the merits of the complaint and the point Uzatron made about not allowing this to show a double standard was valid. Uzatron was one of those who agreed with my POV for the most part in the debate, and as you see he treated me differently in the complaint then the editors who disagreed with me in the debate (some of whom Blaxthos specifically recruited knowing this). I know for a fact that Arzel, another editor who agreed with my POV on FNC, is out of town and will be back any day. He will have a much different view of this situation, probably even more friendly then Uzatron's... because Blaxthos has laid into him multiple times as well. Could you at least wait until another editor or two comments? Besides, the consensus was for a much shorter ban, even without the additional comments that would've been on the way I'm just being honest with you, not trying to offend...

Please work with me here. Jsn9333 (talk) 14:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)