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Revision as of 21:57, 8 May 2008

8 May 2008

Wayne Nelson Corliss

Wayne Nelson Corliss (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

Page was speedied WP:CSD#G10. It had a {{hangon}} with an explanation on talk (I added both). I think this is close enough to notable (meaning it may be) to warrant AfD. Elliskev 21:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Critical Watch (closed)

Pink (Mindless Self Indulgence album)

Pink (Mindless Self Indulgence album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

Contains important information to fans, can have disclaimer regarding issues surrounding tracklisting requiring more sources. EarthBoundX5 (talk) 14:36, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Endorse - deleting admin notes that deletion was after an expired prod. No reliable sources found to support the notability of the album. No prejudice to recreation should such sources materialize. Otto4711 (talk) 14:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Note: Just to be clear, the reason in the deletion log was not my reason for deleting it. My reason for deleting it was simply due to the expired PROD, and the reason listed in the log is the reason that was on the PROD tag. - Rjd0060 (talk) 15:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Endorse - A reasonably extensive search found no reliable sources (and none were provided). The purported album might be important to fans (though we have nothing to substantiate this), but we have no verifiable information to provide. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 15:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC) - Mdsummermsw (talk) 17:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Restore. It's an contested prod, so it gets restored. Discussions about notability can be had at AFD. --UsaSatsui (talk) 16:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist at AfD. Oooopsie, lack of notability is not listed on the list of speedy deletion criteria at WP:CSD. You first need to go to AfD, get a delete result, and then you can apply {{db-g4}} "Recreation of deleted material" Endorse If it really had no verifiability at all (I can't see the deleted version), then restoring it can only end with a speedy deletion. AfD would be a waste of time unless the article is recreated with sources asserting notability per WP:MUSIC. --Enric Naval (talk) 17:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - Lack of verifiability is not a valid reason for a speedy delete. If UsaSatsui is correct on the procedure on this one (and I don't know), I'll send it right to AfD if someone doesn't beat me to it (or reliable sources don't suddenly appear). - Mdsummermsw (talk) 17:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for pointing out this to us --Enric Naval (talk) 17:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Restore - It looks like UsaSatsui is correct. It was deleted via my PROD so any reasonable request should restore it. Our discussion should be in AfD. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 17:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Article restored: Absolutely no reason for Deletion Review on a PROD deleted article. - Rjd0060 (talk) 21:13, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

High school alumni (United States)

High school alumni (United States) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

Admin initially correctly closed the CFD as delete but after being pressured by two editors reversed himself. Closing admin has expressed deep regret over allowing himself to be pressured in this way. The original interpretation of the CFD was correct, the categories fail WP:V and are also non-defining of the people included, CFD is not a vote and the original deletion should be reinstated. Otto4711 (talk) 13:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Restore - Consensus trumps policy.--WaltCip (talk) 14:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Overturn - I wasn't going to chime in as closer on this one, but I take exception to the "consensus trumps policy" statement above. No, it doesn't. You can have unanimous support to keep an attack category, but at the end of the day it's gone. --Kbdank71 14:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comment consensus does not trump policy, but it does interpret it. The attack policy for example is applied strictly because such application has very strong consensus every time.

• Keep all the categories in Category:People by high school in the United States. WP:V is a red-herring - there is no problem verifying which high school many people attended (eg George Bush) and if there is a problem with verification the article should be tagged and then removed from the category (as with any article in any category). Non-defining is a matter of opinion - Otto4711 believes that high school is not defining but dietary preference is crucial. In contrast the biographers of the United States Congress give the high school for BUSH, George Herbert Walker but omit his dietary preferences. -- roundhouse0 (talk) 15:36, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Way to put words in my mouth. I didn't say vegetarianism is "crucial;" I said it was defining. And for all of your bluster about red herrings you have yet to rebut my point in the CFD that these categories are nothing but Category:People who graduated high school and that people are neither notable for nor defined by graduating high school. It may very well be interesting that so-and-so graduated high school but it does not define who that person is as a person. Pick any person in any of these categories and list off the things that define them. Does "graduated high school" make the top ten? The top fifty? For the vast majority of them, no. Otto4711 (talk) 15:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Overturn "consensus" decision wtf? WP:V does trump the consensus at a CfD. It's supposed to be a fucking core policy. The interpretation at the CfD is too loose and makes WP:V almost totally irrelevant on discussion categories. This closing was faulty and should have been a "delete per being empty categories after taking out unverified articles" like the original decision stated. Delete all the categories and restore them only one by one once you have 4 or 5 articles that verify assistance to that high school. Once they are created they can then be brought again to CfD for being irrelevant categories and then the info be added to the school article instead, but that was not the argument used on this CfD closure and the discussion would be out of place on DRV. --Enric Naval (talk) 17:01, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• RESTORE categories on grounds that the deleting admin erred: Failing WP:V applies to the articles themselves not the category. DO go back and remove all articles from categories where the references do not support the alumnus status. THEN delete all categories that remain empty after the usual few days. After all of this is done, if there are any sparsely-populated categories - particularly those with only 1 or 2 alumni - nominate them for deletion individually. I fully expect 80-99% of these categories will disappear by virtue of being empty or having only 1 entry in them. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 17:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

uh, isn't this just a lot of unnecessary bureaucracy? The closing admin states that out of 50 articles that he tested only one was properly sourced to be on the category. --Enric Naval (talk) 18:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Overturn and delete, per Enric Naval. Neither verifiable nor remotely notable or useful categories. Stifle (talk) 20:13, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comment - Given the circumstances of this deletion I would recommend that for clarity, people would refrain from stating "endorse" or "overturn" on their own as it is unclear what exactly you wish to overturn or endorse without further clarification. Stifle (talk) 20:13, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Dramatica

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Misplaced Pages contributors. Misplaced Pages has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes. However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: {{subst:spa|username}}; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}}.

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Misplaced Pages contributors. Misplaced Pages has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes. However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: {{subst:spa|username}}; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}}.

Encyclopedia Dramatica (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

Before you instantly consider closing this as a disruptive request given that the last DRV was speedily closed, something happened overnight concerning Encyclopedia Dramatica's notability. Something big happened. Specifically, an article in a major Australian media outlet was published about ED. It is obviously a reliable source. It is clearly non-trivial coverage given that the article's primary subject is Enyclopedia Dramatica. Given the draft that already exists at User:Running/Encyclopedia Dramatica proposed by User:Shii in March 2008 was already at the stage where consensus was that if an article that was primarily about Encyclopedia Dramatica was to be published, notability would be clearly and firmly established per both WP:WEB and the general notability guideline on top of the existing sources we have on the site. Other than WP:IAR, there is nothing in Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines that I know of that can be used to deny Encyclopedia Dramatica an article at this point.— Preceding unsigned comment added by AnonymousUser12345 (talk • contribs)

• overturn/allow recreation This nomination was started by an SPA but it seems to have a valid point worth considering. For me at least the MSN article seems to push us clearly into the notable end of things. I suspect that some people will argue that this article focuses on Anonymous more than ED which may be a valid criticism (and it is fairly short). (I wish that these trolls would have the minimal social understanding to have a normal user like Shii or Running start this DRV...) JoshuaZ (talk) 13:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Speedy close per WP:IAR - this is a perennial issue, and one that will not be solved by DRV alone.--WaltCip (talk) 13:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Or you know, we could actually have a decent DRV discussion based on the sourcing and ignore the trolling. Which we've actually managed to before. See Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2008 March 6. JoshuaZ (talk) 14:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist - there is no real reason for not having the artice. I have the history of this article (with maybe too much personal opinions about the matter) on my userpage, which was already linked here. ED has three sources that talk about it and 16 sources that mention it somehow (and there are maybe more). I think it's enough. --Have a nice day. Running 14:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I now read this page and I see that in last month some ED requests were speedily closed with messages like "no new informations" - well, now there actually are new informations - the new msn article. While I think ED was worth the article before it, now it's even more. I think now it's not so much about having or not having the sources, it's more about general principles. I am against this "Oh my, we don't want all these bad trolls and anonymous hackers on our wikipedia!", - WP should not be like that. Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith --Have a nice day. Running 14:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist enough for a relisting, though I'm not sure how the AfD will turn out--but finding that out is what AFD is for. DGG (talk) 15:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• annother comment - in one of these closed deletion reviews, I read something like "show us some good draft". Somebody with better english than me can try edit the draft here - User:Running/Encyclopedia Dramatica/Draft - it's just copied version from march or something, written by Shii, without the new sources. --Have a nice day. Running 16:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist - It's going to be an uphill battle to keep the ED article from becoming a mini-ED itself. Nevertheless, there seem to be good sources, and a large number of people are interested. As for notability, it's currently ranked 2,099 on Alexa, which is significantly higher than Uncyclopedia (Really, check it out). I realise the site is a vicious parody of Misplaced Pages, but this shouldn't prevent us from covering it. In fact, it should make us more inclined to cover it. --Estemi (talk) 16:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist - I have no opinion on the reasoning for the deletion review. That said, the new source seems to be enough to warrent a new AfD. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 16:33, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist Stupid nonsense, but that meets my standard for this sort of thing on the notability scale. It's far more than most websites we have articles on achieve. The article if it's remade should be permanently semi-protected to keep trolls at bay. Lawrence Cohen § t/e 16:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist and make sure to point to a good draft finally a source that unambiguously covers ED directly and not its actions. And it's on the technology section too. I would say "overturn" but an article with such a contentious article should go throught the long path because skiping any step would cause heavy amounts of WP:WIKIDRAMA and flood ANI with cries of undue procedures. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist While I think this is a bit early to have another deletion debate about this article, I outlined some sound reasons for keeping it at User:Shii/ED and I think this new source should prove quite helpful to maintaining a good article. Shii (tock) 17:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Allow recreation. The deletion was for notability and sourcing concerns and this seems to have been met. I see no reason we have to go through an AfD; DRV is the proper venue for this sort of thing. Mangojuice 19:25, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist. The various objects to an ED article reek of POV corruption. Misplaced Pages's mission necessitates an article on this notable (yet still disgusting) wiki. --Truthseeq (talk) 19:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist - per the additon of new sources. I was just about to start a DRV myself. Also see my version of the draft at User:Urban Rose/ED.--Urban Rose 19:33, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist. The arguments against always look like a whole lot of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. *Dan T.* (talk) 19:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist at AFD, but keep the article permanently full-protected if it is kept - even as Misplaced Pages's anti-ED poster child, I think the source just pushes it into notability. Just. The problems with an ED article now are troll attacks - the former can really only be dealt with by protecting, as any Grawp-basher knows - trolls from the 4chan family of websites are the most persistent. Do note, that even if the article is kept, the site can not be linked to directly - Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/MONGO explicitly disallows any links to the site, and the remedy (and enforcement) was upheld two months ago (annoyingly, using my ED page as a reason for denying links). Sceptre 19:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• I knew this day would come Relist per my prophetic remarks here, barely hours ago. --Relata refero (disp.) 19:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Allow Recreation On the last extended DRV discussion I thought there was a good claim for notability. This new article solidifies it.--Cube lurker (talk) 19:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Close, stop the nonsense. Enough already. How many times have we been through this? Durova 20:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment - Apparently you seem to be confused. New sources have turned up that establish ED's notability. There is no policy which forbid that there be an article on ED and consensus can change.--Urban Rose 20:12, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Speedy close, third or fourth nomination inside a week. Disruptive. It has been very clearly established that this article is not wanted on Misplaced Pages. Stifle (talk) 20:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment I (and I'm sure that many other Wikipedians) don't particularly "want" to have to look at pictures of male genitalia on the article penis. That doesn't mean that the images there deserve to be censored. And also, you completely ignore the fact that this nomination differs from the other three in that new sources have recently been found. You simply fail to give a valid argument against the recreation of this article.--Urban Rose 20:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Seems to me like Misplaced Pages:WEDONTNEEDIT. In previous attempts, it has been said many times, that there are not many sources for possible ED article. Altough judging from other articles about other sites, previous news coverage should be sufficient, but there is this new, reliable msn source, which gives ED a little bit more notability. Of course, the article will have to be protected from vandals, just like 4chan article. --Have a nice day. Running 20:28, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Good God no No ta. Spartaz 20:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment - And your reason being?--Urban Rose 20:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Allow recreation Last time this came up at deletion review I did not think notability was quite established, with the new article am convinced that it has been and do not see any arguments that it has not been. Anyone can list it at AFD once it has been recreated of course but am convinced it will be kept now. The article should be premamently semi protected at least as a rather special case where it is needed. Davewild (talk) 20:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist per WP:NOTCENSORED and WP:NPOV. Keeping them out because they're odious is contrary to our principles of no censorship, fails to provide neutral coverage of that segment of the web, and passes up the chance to neutrally describe their odiousness. We shouldn't let their misbehavior drag us down towards their level. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:24, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Relist as it has become more notable. If we can have a bazillion articles about paedophilia, really weird sex acts, zoophilia, graphic photos of various STDs, etc, etc, I'm sure we can bear the grossness of having an article about ED. -- Naerii 20:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Allow recreation notability has been established with the significant MSN source. Of course, relist at AfD if you disagree. EJF (talk) 20:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Allow recreation Encyclopedia Dramatica is clearly relevant enough for an article to be created, not having one seems irresponsible. The content of the site shouldn't affect whether or not there is an article on it, and certainly hasn't stopped articles being created on similar sites.--Advwar (talk) 21:01, 8 May 2008 (UTC) — Advwar (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• comment I still don't think this source is very good. It is only one source about the subject, it is quite short, and is it not a web source rather than a paper? It's definitely not the most well known of papers. We often delete articles based on their having only one source. The other sources are not primarily about ED, and all only mention them for a few sentences. It has pretty much the same number of sources than Misplaced Pages review but not with the same quality or depth, so if we remake it, we technically should have the WR article as well, not that I really think we are obliged to have either. In the case of ED, t's free advertising for what's effectively an attack site.Merkin's mum 21:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• Endorse deletion, and yes we know ED users want to validate their tawdry website by having a Misplaced Pages article, and nothing grieves them more than the implication that their little website is of anything less than surpassing importance but tough. It's just another site full of juvenilia and acutely unfunny "humor", there are a million of them. Oh, and I just visited the shithole to find out of Urban Rose has more edits htere than here, but their popups crashed Firefox. So: not only is it a cesspit of boring sophomoric nonsense, it's an ad'-riddled one at that. On the plus side, Rose does have fewer edits there than here (remarkable given her few edits here), but I did rapidly find out that she is active in the discussions about Grawp, who appears to originate at ED (I guess everybody else already knew this and I am just slow catching on). So another reason for not having an article: they are co-ordinating vandalims of Misplaced Pages as "punishment" for our daring to say how insignificant they are. Guy (Help!) 21:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)