Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 20:46, 24 May 2008

In a 2008 arbitration case, administrators were given the power to impose discretionary sanctions on any editor working on articles concerning the September 11, 2001 attacks. Before any such sanctions are imposed, editors are to be put on notice of the decision.

A request has been made for this article to be peer reviewed to receive a broader perspective on how it may be improved. Please make any edits you see fit to improve the quality of this article.

Software: Computing

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Software, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of software on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SoftwareWikipedia:WikiProject SoftwareTemplate:WikiProject Softwaresoftware ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Computing.

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about September 11 attacks. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about September 11 attacks at the Reference desk.

	September 11 attacks is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
	September 11 attacks has been listed as one of the good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 19, 2004 Refreshing brilliant prose Kept February 26, 2004 Featured article review Demoted January 10, 2005 Featured article candidate Not promoted December 29, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted January 27, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed February 14, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed October 16, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed May 19, 2008 Good article nominee Listed Current status: Former featured article, current good article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. United States This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Terrorism task force. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. New York (state) Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Misplaced Pages:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state) Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. New York City Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Skyscrapers Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skyscrapers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that relate to skyscrapers on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkyscrapersWikipedia:WikiProject SkyscrapersTemplate:WikiProject SkyscrapersSkyscraper Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Template:WP1.0

Template:FAOL

GA Review Final Comments

Great work, I've looked at all the relevant points above and will now read through the article again just to make sure. Anything I come up with I will list below this, but it is unlikely that any of the comments raised will hold up the GA nomination, they're just for future reference.

• I think the primary contributors to the article should look very closely at the "See Also" section to make sure that all the links there are important and strictly relevant and that any that are are not missing.
• The prose standard is good overall, but I'm noticing a few repetitions and slightly clumsy phrasing. Its good enough for GA, but might have a tough time at FAC. See if you can get a few uninvolved editors to run over the prose before attempting that (if you drop a line on my talk page I might be able to give it a go myself before you nominate).

• Take a look at the hate crimes section, because it repeats itself about Sikhs and could perhaps be phrased a little better.

• "The Commission and its report have been subject to various forms of criticism" - Give examples of this criticism.
• "were not adequately reinforced to provide emergency escape for people above the impact zones. NIST stated that the final report on the collapse of WTC 7 will appear in a separate report. This was confirmed by an independent study by Purdue University." - What was confirmed? The stairwells thing or the seperate report?

None of these problems are significant enough to warrant any further delay of GA status. Congratulations, this is a well-written and properly sourced article on a hugely controversial and contentious issue that must have been a real challenge to maintain partly due to the sheer volume of information that could be added. Good luck working on the sub-articles and if you need any more input just drop me a line. Regards --Jackyd101 (talk) 09:08, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

		Congrats
		Moldy sandwiches for all! Thanks to everyone's help in achieving Good Article status! VegitaU (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

WTC 7

The section on the cause of this building's collapse references a preliminary report. The findings in this report are presented in a way that is much more definite than the report says we can be. --RadioElectric (talk) 09:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

How's that? The building was compromised by fires and collapsed. True. The investigation is ongoing. True. The current hypothesis is the collapse was caused by fire and debris induced structural damage. True. All true and cited, so tell me how it's supposedly more definite. Please read this and this regarding previous discussions on this topic. -- VegitaU (talk) 13:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I was saying that the article expresses it in stronger terms than the report does. I've seen the way you've been acting on here. Don't mind me if I wait for another editor to come along. --RadioElectric (talk) 23:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

You mean the way I've been reworking the article tirelessly, finding sources, and expertly citing facts? Why thank you, it's good to be noticed. -- VegitaU (talk) 00:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The problem may be the way in which the paragraph is structured (If it's the one I'm looking at - in the Aftermath section under Investigations). I think that material from the published, final report on the Twin Towers collapse is being quoted immediately before a sentence about the ongoing investigation into WTC7. Is this the problem? It wouldn't be hard to make the distinction clearer. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 00:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Book references

A lot of good work is being done to format the references, add page numbers, etc. But, I am concerned about book references being replaced. If page numbers are needed, I can help with that. In general, books written by experts such as Yosri Fouda, Peter Bergen, Lawrence Wright, Terry McDermott, etc. are higher quality than news articles, provide more depth, more fact-checking, with more expertise going into them. Yosri Fouda's book, for example, is the best reference for citing about the interview Fouda did with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh. This part of the interview is also included in his documentary on the attacks - طريق إلى 11 سبتمبر (Road to September 11th). I think that something is being lost by taking these out. --Aude (talk) 01:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Whoops. I saw the lack of page numbers as a problem and started replacing those sources with news organizations. I don't have any of the books, so if anyone here does, it would only improve the article further. My only concern would be this opening up to garbage like Debunking 9/11 Debunking and Painful Questions. -- VegitaU (talk) 01:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I have accumulated numerous books which cover various aspects in-depth (though I'm going away for the summer and not taking them with). There are also some good documentaries, including ones that PBS produced, and the one I mentioned above by Fouda is excellent though not in English. A huge amount has been written on the attacks, so we need to filter through it and choose the best sources. Of course there is a lot of junk out there too. I'm starting a list here (User:Aude/9-11 sources) of what I have, what I think are best sources for various aspects. Maybe this would help? --Aude (talk) 02:11, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

That looks good. It's odd though. This is the first lengthy article where a "further reading" section has been completely removed. I think I first showed up at this article when that happened. -- VegitaU (talk) 02:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I took out the following, which was in the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed section. Although Lawrence Wright's book is an excellent source (and I have the page number), I think this sentence is overly detailed.

"Lawrence Wright, Pulitzer Prize-winning writer, explains that Atta's commitment solidified in response to the Israeli strikes at the beginning of Operation Grapes of Wrath." - source: Wright, Lawrence (2006). The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11. Alfred A. Knopf. ISBN 0-375-41486-X.

Simply saying "Mohamed Atta shared this same motivation." with one sentence to back that up is sufficient. I also swapped the sources for that, back to what was there before. What I put back is more specific (mentioning Israel) and goes with what the paragraph says about KSM. I realize the MSNBC TV documentary is not as widely available, but I still think it's best for now. --Aude (talk) 02:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I think all the other changes look good. --Aude (talk) 02:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I still have to get all the accessdates put on the web sources. What a pain that's been. -- VegitaU (talk) 02:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Drug connection ?

What appears missing from many sources is a possible 'drug connection' to 9-11, even as part of a conspiracy theory ?

As Canadian troops, have found that Afghanistan is providing over 80% of the world's opium supply.

Could it be that the attack on 'America' was in part due to America's war on drugs, and or elements intercepting drug shipments to America ?

Seems that the logic of the situation merits some reference to this.

--Caesar J. B. Squitti  : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 19:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I have to say I've never heard this one before. And since the Taliban had stopped opium growth before 9/11, no, it's not possible. -- VegitaU (talk) 19:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I too am surprised not to have heard of it before now. Do you have a reliable source for this, or is it just conjecture? We can't just add any editor's opinion to an article. Misplaced Pages policy forbids it. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 19:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thats the problem. No source. It was not ever mentioned that Afghanistan was the world's greatest Opium producer, all the talk was about oil.

Even though much of the conjecture was about oil, never was a drug connection mentioned.

Just last week the Canadian Foreign Minister was showcased on the CBC dating the former wife of a Drug Dealer.

So is there a connection ?

--Caesar J. B. Squitti  : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 20:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

No source. Nothing more to discuss. It isn't mentioned on the article. -- VegitaU (talk) 20:08, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Caesar, this page is not for discussing the attacks, or the possibility of drug connections. It's for discussing how to improve the article. The problem is, we can't do that without reliable sources (because of our verifiability policy). So I'm afraid that this topic isn't going to go anywhere, unless someone can find a published source discussing it. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 20:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I look at the current "motives" for the attack and I don't see any logical motives ?

It is only conjecture, but if some part of the US establishment is interfering in your illegal activity, who are you going to report this to ?

There was a movie to this effect some years ago.

Seems like the other 'suggestions' in the thread are pure conjecture as well....

Just asking for a logical explanation to why "they' did what 'they' did...so far very little there that makes logical sense ?

Just asking for a logical explanation.

--Caesar J. B. Squitti  : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 22:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

This isn't a discussion forum. If you don't feel the motives given by Al-Qaeda are logical, then that's your opinion — they clearly disagree. Nonetheless, this isn't a place to discuss which motives are, or are not, logical. Please confine your comments to the article, and not the subject. --Haemo (talk) 22:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Taliban Drug Connection Terroist link

Somehow a previous link has not shown up, but here is another.

Some truths no one wants printed ?

What does that have to do with anything 9/11 related? -- VegitaU (talk) 03:16, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I will respond to your question on my talk page, as I see an ambush approaching...( it is hoped that this will serve as a model for future cases)

--Caesar J. B. Squitti  : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 03:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Please keep discussion centralized. It's hard to follow, otherwise. --Haemo (talk) 03:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Good. That's where these off-tangent discussions belong. -- VegitaU (talk) 03:50, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Does this article mention the PBS special Frontline, that came to the conclusion that the Bush whitehouse needed something to invade Iraq, and built "Al-Quida", when in fact this was suppose to be about Bin Ladin...and whatever ?

(Just a quick note about a movie, anyone know the name that outlines how a 'special agent force' used Air forces to attack a drug cartel in Columbia, with the intent of making it appear like a drug war ?)

VegitaU what are your qualification about this issue ?

Anyway, I will leave this issue for now.

--Caesar J. B. Squitti  : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 04:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

• "this was suppose to be about Bin Ladin...and whatever"

Since you wrote a short story-length account here and came to this enthralling conclusion, let me just waste a sentence exclaiming how clear it is to me now why we're losing the war. -- VegitaU (talk) 04:26, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

1. United Nations Drug Information

• NPOV disputes
• Requests for peer review
• Unassessed software articles
• Unknown-importance software articles
• Unassessed software articles of Unknown-importance
• Unassessed Computing articles
• Unknown-importance Computing articles
• All Computing articles
• All Software articles
• Misplaced Pages former featured articles
• Misplaced Pages good articles
• Good articles without topic parameter
• Former good article nominees
• All unassessed articles
• GA-Class United States articles
• Unknown-importance United States articles
• GA-Class United States articles of Unknown-importance
• WikiProject United States articles
• Unassessed Crime-related articles
• Unknown-importance Crime-related articles
• Unassessed Terrorism articles
• Unknown-importance Terrorism articles
• Terrorism task force articles
• WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles
• GA-Class New York (state) articles
• Top-importance New York (state) articles
• GA-Class New York City articles
• Top-importance New York City articles
• WikiProject New York City articles
• WikiProject templates with unknown parameters
• GA-Class Skyscraper articles
• Top-importance Skyscraper articles
• WikiProject Skyscrapers articles and lists