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::(ec) I think a straw-man has been set up here. OrangeMarlin wasn't accusing DHMO of being a racist, and I doubt that anyone seriously believes that DHMO is racist. Rather, OM was pointing out that based on his blog posting, DHMO seems to have some trouble recognizing racism. And that is a big problem. Admins on en.wiki ought to be able to easily spot racism and intervene accordingly, and if they cannot or will not, then they shouldn't be admins. ] ] 19:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | ::(ec) I think a straw-man has been set up here. OrangeMarlin wasn't accusing DHMO of being a racist, and I doubt that anyone seriously believes that DHMO is racist. Rather, OM was pointing out that based on his blog posting, DHMO seems to have some trouble recognizing racism. And that is a big problem. Admins on en.wiki ought to be able to easily spot racism and intervene accordingly, and if they cannot or will not, then they shouldn't be admins. ] ] 19:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::Yes he was, he even asked others to support him in it. '''I asked slrubenstein and Jayjg, both of whom are ] as to whether or not I was out of bounds on considering DHMO a racist, anti-semitic enabling pig.''' . So let's not let's mince words here. ] (]) 20:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | :::Yes he was, he even asked others to support him in it. '''I asked slrubenstein and Jayjg, both of whom are ] as to whether or not I was out of bounds on considering DHMO a racist, anti-semitic enabling pig.''' . So let's not let's mince words here. ] (]) 20:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
::::Now that really is out of order, ] please see:]. Not a personal attack merely trying to help a fellow Wikipedian expand their volcabulary. ] (]) 21:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::Since when? Admins are there to help build an encyclopedia with a few extra tools, not act like police officers. ''']''' <sup>'']''</sup> 20:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | :::Since when? Admins are there to help build an encyclopedia with a few extra tools, not act like police officers. ''']''' <sup>'']''</sup> 20:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC) |
Revision as of 21:07, 31 May 2008
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Neutral section
There seems to be a support vote at the bottom of the neutral section. --Realist (Come Speak To Me) 23:31, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- It's already been copy and pasted into support vote # 142.
See here for why the duplicate is still down there.bstone just deleted the dupe as well. xenocidic (talk) 23:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC) - The person actually meant to support:
the support is still down there, but at this time of writing, it has been indented, and isn't counted in the tally. The said user has supported too. Acalamari 23:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)- Eh, my comment is out of date as well. :) Acalamari 23:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- Cheers, thought id just letcha know. Realist (Come Speak To Me) 23:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- Eh, my comment is out of date as well. :) Acalamari 23:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Canvassing
- The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This is currently being investigated by the bureaucrats. Apportioning blame without evidence tends to only poison the well. Please wait for solid conclusions to be made by bureaucrat(s) and possibly developers before discussing this further. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 01:07, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- Note: That being said, if you were the recipient of one of these emails, sent via the Misplaced Pages interface or not, please contact a bureaucrat and direct them to this discussion. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 01:11, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I just got an e-mail saying the following:
Have you seen http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Dihydrogen_Monoxide_3#Oppose
Anyone else getting canvassed? · AndonicO 00:56, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- No, but I suspect a great many users in the oppose section were. See my comment on the main RfA talk page, to Filll. Al Tally 01:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- I have not, did it come thru the wikipedia e-mail system? If so, whom did it come from? SQL 01:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- Not me, but if its occuring it should be urgently delt with. Culprets must be exposed. — Realist (Come Speak To Me) 01:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- I have not, did it come thru the wikipedia e-mail system? If so, whom did it come from? SQL 01:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- I have not received an email. NonvocalScream (talk) 01:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Racism and off-wiki blogging
This has got to be the worst oppose rationale I've ever seen. I think its time this is addressed. White pride does not always mean supremacy and to oppose someone for "a complete lack of understanding of racist code words" (Orangemarlin) is outright preposterous. Not to mention: When did we start opposing candidates because of off wiki blog's? Who cares what Alex does when hes not editing wikipedia. I am asking that this oppose be withdrawn. SynergeticMaggot (talk) 11:59, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- I just want to say, nothing on Misplaced Pages has indicated that he is a racist. He has not POV pushed, he has not supported the block of a user because he or she is not white or not Australian or etc., he has never indicated race or anything as a reason to support or deny anything. And it is fairly obvious that he never will. The whole conflict started with one user indicating another as a White Supremecist at Arb Comm, and it just seems to me that several of the people who opposed the people who were offended or opposed of that statement, made it their personal mission to oppose him based on that. I hope this makes sense because I didn't get much sleep last night.<3 Tinkleheimer TALK!! 12:22, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- It doesnt makes sense that a person cant express an opinion in this community without fear, or recrimination. Gnangarra 12:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed. I think it's semantics to prove a point - the candidate is Australian and fairly young, and is unlikely to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the micro details of what describes what in some parts of the United States (nor do I, and I'm nearly twice his age). I go from behaviour and I have never seen him treat a contributor or subject differently because of their race at any time, nor do I think I am likely to. Orderinchaos 15:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- It doesnt makes sense that a person cant express an opinion in this community without fear, or recrimination. Gnangarra 12:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- White pride is closely connected to racist movements, if you don't get why that might be offensive then there is a problem on some level.
—Apis (talk) 13:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)- A "close connection" is not an absolute. How has alex's contributions to wikipedia been offensive? This is, in essence, the problem. There has been no proof outside of claims. This should not even be an issue in this RfA. SynergeticMaggot (talk) 13:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Just to add, there are many cultural differences that may explain why misunderstandings can creep in. In the United Kingdom, for example, the concept of White Pride is virtually nonexistant while the concept of pride in one's heritage, history and upbringing is actively encouraged by educational institutions and government agencies. I would not be surprised if this is shared elsewhere. To expect the same terminology to be used in the same fashion throughout different geographical and geopolitical areas is, at best, optimistic. Gazimoff Read 14:10, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- They're throwing white supremacy, KKK and neo-nazi around pretty liberally (See Orangemarlin's edit summmary). I already detailed my beliefs on-wiki (which is much as Gazimoff has stated above) and the editor who originally called me a white supremacist has since told me that he knows I'm not a racist, yet the comments from this clique continue and I remain labeled a racist. Alex's support of me and information in his blog is based on the fact that he knows me, knows my beliefs, and knows that there is a difference for some people. AFAIK, he's not made any claims on his own beliefs and there is nothing in his editing, much as there is none in my own, that would make any such beliefs relevant on wiki in any regard anyway. Lara❤Love 14:22, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Just to add, there are many cultural differences that may explain why misunderstandings can creep in. In the United Kingdom, for example, the concept of White Pride is virtually nonexistant while the concept of pride in one's heritage, history and upbringing is actively encouraged by educational institutions and government agencies. I would not be surprised if this is shared elsewhere. To expect the same terminology to be used in the same fashion throughout different geographical and geopolitical areas is, at best, optimistic. Gazimoff Read 14:10, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- One's beliefs should not be a basis for an oppose unless they have been shown to compromise one's ability to edit Misplaced Pages neutrally and constructively. I was under the impression that accusing someone of racism was, shall we say, greatly to be discouraged. I don't know DHMO on a personal level. Haven't read his off-wiki stuff. (I think it would be nice if he curbed his blogging about Misplaced Pages. Perhaps the need to do that will decrease with time and greater maturity.) If he is a racist, then I'm sorry for him. (Not going to get into an irrelevant and potentially explosive discussion of my beliefs vs those of others here.) I have not seen it show up in his editing or decision making. Whatever one's beliefs or nature of one's off-wiki activities, it's the user's abilities on wiki that matter, and he clearly has the ability to wield a mop and bucket. Dlohcierekim 14:35, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah I don't think anyone would have an issue with a well thought out oppose based on demonstrated behaviour or comments. This is not the case here. Orderinchaos 15:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Indeed. DHMO basically edits video game article extensively, and I haven't seen him writing "and then the damn black guy died, thank god" in plot summaries, so I think we're fine. Even if he was the biggest bigot ever, no one has been able to demonstrate ways this has compromised his contribs. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 15:54, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah I don't think anyone would have an issue with a well thought out oppose based on demonstrated behaviour or comments. This is not the case here. Orderinchaos 15:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- A "close connection" is not an absolute. How has alex's contributions to wikipedia been offensive? This is, in essence, the problem. There has been no proof outside of claims. This should not even be an issue in this RfA. SynergeticMaggot (talk) 13:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- You can see my response on the main RFA page---and can anybody understand the response that was made to it? I can't respond to it because I think it is merely jibberish trying to sound intelligent. But no, while white pride is OFTEN associated with white supremacy, it is no more racist than Black Pride or Asian Pride---both of which I consider to be racist notions, but area accepted in American Culture. As for his off wiki blogs, while I am a nom, it is an area that I warned him about. Since they are off wiki blogs ABOUT wikipedia and he does bring specifics about wikipedia on his blog---and he knows that his blog does get quoted on wikipedia he runs the risk of people citing it. It would be a different story if it was a private blog where he had the presumption of privacy or distinct separation for wikipedia, but here he doesn't.---Balloonman 16:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- I think it's moments like these that make me glad that I have no intention of gaining the mop. How candidates manage to survive the ordeal of an RfA continues to amaze me. Gazimoff Read 19:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- (ec) I think a straw-man has been set up here. OrangeMarlin wasn't accusing DHMO of being a racist, and I doubt that anyone seriously believes that DHMO is racist. Rather, OM was pointing out that based on his blog posting, DHMO seems to have some trouble recognizing racism. And that is a big problem. Admins on en.wiki ought to be able to easily spot racism and intervene accordingly, and if they cannot or will not, then they shouldn't be admins. Yilloslime (t) 19:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Yes he was, he even asked others to support him in it. I asked slrubenstein and Jayjg, both of whom are fellow members of the tribe as to whether or not I was out of bounds on considering DHMO a racist, anti-semitic enabling pig. . So let's not let's mince words here. SirFozzie (talk) 20:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Now that really is out of order, Orangemarlin please see:fuckwit. Not a personal attack merely trying to help a fellow Wikipedian expand their volcabulary. RMHED (talk) 21:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Since when? Admins are there to help build an encyclopedia with a few extra tools, not act like police officers. Al Tally 20:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Yes he was, he even asked others to support him in it. I asked slrubenstein and Jayjg, both of whom are fellow members of the tribe as to whether or not I was out of bounds on considering DHMO a racist, anti-semitic enabling pig. . So let's not let's mince words here. SirFozzie (talk) 20:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)