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Users banned for psychological illness, but who are now cured

Hello Mr Wales. What is the policy with regard to someone who was disruptive due to a psychological disorder, that got them banned, but now that they are officially on medication and are better, would like to return? Can a softer line be taken with them in letting them back, since they weren't fully aware/responsible of their actions when they were under the influence of their disorder? Thanks. 78.146.252.52 (talk) 10:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I am generally in favor of forgiveness and second chances for anyone, for whatever the reason. The important thing is always the future, not the past.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to second that. This is a very forgiving community toward people who are genuinely sorry for problems they've caused and want to reform, whether because of illness or anything else. SlimVirgin 16:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see this and compare the IPs before even considering unbanning. Jimbo, if you are going to consider the past unimportant here you will at the same time be considering the time invested in this by checkusers and editors like me and many others unimportant. There are people who are banned for very good reasons. They should stay banned for the same reasons. EconomicsGuy (talk) 16:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think, from Jimbo's post above, we can infer that he plans to unban anyone. The concept is that people aren't banned for past bad conduct - they are banned to prevent future bad conduct. If the chances of future bad conduct are low, for whatever reason that we can have some reasonable confidence in, then an unban should be at least considered. In this particular case I'd say the person behind these accounts and IPs would have to make some extraordinarily convincing argument for this latest explanation/plea to result in unbanning. Avruch 16:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest sending the info on the illness confidentially to either Jimbo or Arbcom. Zginder 2008-05-29T17:34Z (UTC)

Thank you for the replies. I might as well post the illness here, since it has already been spread all over wikipedia and wikipedia review. The disorder was Body Dysmorphic Disorder, a disorder which causes extreme moodswings, hyperdepression, constant attention seeking for comfort, etc. If the community feels uncomfortable with a complete unban, could a trial, with restrictions be somewhat of a compromise? 78.146.252.52 (talk) 18:00, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I was not making any recommendation about the case in question, just trying to answer about the general principle. I agree as well with EconomicsGuy when he says that some people are banned for good reasons and should stay banned for those reasons. At the same time, when we see signs of a genuine change of heart, we can offer a gesture of goodwill. It is easy enough to reban if it doesn't work out.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough Jimbo. If the community is willing to unban and we can work out some restrictions and we have your support for rebanning without the usual bureaucracy I'll support that we investigate the options avaliable to us for rehabilitating this user. Ít needs to be an open community discussion though as a lot of users here were affected by this user's disruption. He caused a massive rangeblock of some 200.000 IPs (basically a substantial part of his ISP) when he was creating socks at a rate of 10 new accounts per hour on different IPs. Add to this his repeated unwillingness to accept consensus and warnings and I hope you will understand my concerns. I trust you Jimbo and if you think a solution can be worked out here then I won't stand in the way of letting the community work out an arrangement. EconomicsGuy (talk) 06:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Not all of those accounts were made by me. As I said before, some of them were made by people I know, while others, I have no idea who they were, or how they ended up being labelled as me, but yes, apart from that, I did make lots of other accounts to cause disruption. However, I do accept full responsibility for my actions, and I know that what I did was wrong - if I was in a clear frame of mind at the time, I wouldn't have done it, but I wasn't able to see clearly then, since my disorder caused me to keep constantly attention-seeking, and to have hyper-sensitivity, which is why I reacted so badly to some comments by some users.

Yes, unfortunately, there are users who won't be prepared to forgive me. However, over time, I have been appologizing to several people I have been involved with, personally by email, including User:Jeffpw (my old mentor), User:Philippe (from the election committee), and User:SteveBaker (someone who I got into conflict with when I was first here) etc, and they seemed to be understanding. I have tried sending appologies to Arbcom several times, but without even a reply.

With regard to me being unable to accept consensus, I think you are referring to the time when I originally created this page: GHD (the hair styling brand), and people kept telling me it wasn't notable. I wasn't familiar with the system here then, and even though I knew it was notable, I wasn't able to find sources to prove this. I kept arguing against its deletion, since I knew it was notable, and it wasn't until someone else found sources, that it was removed from being deleted. Now that I am quite experienced with all the procedures, I understand about WP:OR, WP:NPOV, WP:CIVIL, etc; something which I was not benefitted with before.

Before anything else is discussed, I would like people to know that shortly after I was banned here, I went over to Simple Misplaced Pages, and soon after, was shortly made indefinitely blocked (for similar reasons as I was banned here). I am stating this now, so that everything is out in the open, but I would like to add that since I was only cured of my disorder after I had been blocked at both Simple and here, it shouldn't really change this case.

With regards to unbanning me, I will respect anything that Mr Wales tells/advises me. I have been trying to request for unban for around six months now, and yes, along the way, I have made sockpuppets, and even though they were editing constructively, I know this was still wrong, since it was evading my ban. I hope that if you have read my ArbCom appeals, you will understand how sorry I am, and I just can't appologize enough for everything, but I have been told several times by one user (at simple wikipedia) that my appologies are worthless, so I won't place a massive 1000 word appology up here. I am sorry though, to everyone whose time I wasted, and to the project itself, for wasting its checkuser resources, and damaging it. 78.146.227.27 (talk) 08:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

To be fair to you; no you were not (entirely) responsible for what happened on Simple Misplaced Pages. That needs to be said. I can vouch for the fact that you can make good edits. You are not a bad editor which is why I became increasingly upset with you because you were wasting your potential on fighting a war rather than focus on being a good editor. This still needs to be discussed with the rest of the community though. No more arguing about things that are the way they are for a reason and no more socking okay? If we can agree on this then 6 months is time served in my opinion. A lot of people will be watching you though so some kind of mentoring might be a good idea possibly with some restrictions for some time. EconomicsGuy (talk) 11:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree to any conditions that may be imposed on me, of course. 78.149.186.121 (talk) 13:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay then let's hear what others have to say including Jimbo when he has the time to consider the above. We still need an admin who is willing to unblock and a debate about the terms so this will need to go on AN soon. I don't think Jimbo's talk page is the place to have that debate. EconomicsGuy (talk) 14:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I'm an administrator on the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and I've dealt with Benniguy/Iamandrewrice a lot over the past few months, and we've faced many problems since he's been "cured". Just over the past few days we've had hundreds of sockpuppets created attacking our users, and personally I'm certain it's him and his friends. If possible, could we get your CheckUsers talking with ours to discuss the IP information (and how it matches up with everything else)? They would probably be able to give you the best answers on what they most likely did/didn't do. Archer7 (talk) 16:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

In response to the above, I believe what Archer is talking about is the mass of accounts that has been created there lately. I have no objection to a checkuser, since those accounts are NOT mine. I do however know who they belong to, but that is irrelevant, as her actions have nothing to do with mine.

Please note, this is not the first time that other users have impersonated me. I once tried to make an account at French wikipedia, and look what I found: . The account had one contribution, and it was to "Kent", the county where I live, meaning that the person who was impersonating me obviously knew information about me, and the name coincidence was not just be chance. Thanks. 78.149.186.121 (talk) 17:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Archer I think it might be faster for you to look at the bottom of the checkuser case on Iamandrewrice. The IP ranges known to be them are noted there. Alison is the checkuser here who is familiar with this case. EconomicsGuy (talk) 17:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'm not a CheckUser, I have no IP or client info whatsoever, but users like simple:User:Creol or simple:User:Eptalon have dealt with this user before and have more knowledge than anyone else really on who edits from what etc, so might be able to talk to your CUs a little more openly. Just an idea... Archer7 (talk) 17:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I think the best thing for them to do is e-mail Alison and ask her if she has any relevant information to share with your checkusers. EconomicsGuy (talk) 17:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

As I said, I don't object to the checkuser.

Additionally, I would like to add something. Among the recent mass of accounts being created at Simple, was a collection of "IUseRosary2", "IUseRosary3", etc, which are impersonations of IUseRosary (someone who people know I am friends with in real life).

These accounts then went to the Requests for Admin page, and put IUseRosary up for adminship. Some users at simple then went on to say that they believed the set of IUseRosarys to be sockpuppets of either IUseRosary or myself.

We find this an utterly bizzare claim, since there would be no apparent reason in making a username so obviously alike to IUseRosary and putting him up for adminship, unless we wanted to get found out, and by all logic, this would of course not be true.

The same is true with the rest of the account creations there, which seem to purposefully do things associated with myself and IUseRosary. For instance, it is well known that both of us have had problems with Gwib (a user there) before, and low and behold, the recent account creations are all aimed at insulting Gwib.

I hope people will not be fooled by this like they were with the original series of sockpuppets created at EN. But a checkuser should clear this up. 78.149.186.121 (talk) 17:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) If this is what we are talking about I don't really see how that points to Iamandrewrice. His IP ranges are well known and unless your checkusers have missed any of them I'll go with assume good faith here. Your checkusers should contact Alison. EconomicsGuy (talk) 17:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

That is part of it, yes. There have also been a rash of other accounts, made in a similar way, and several of them feature profane words. People who have so far encountered me will know that I do not swear, but anyway...

It seems their checkuser (User:Eptalon) is online now. If people wanted to about the IPs used there, they could perhaps enquire there now. Thanks 78.149.186.121 (talk) 17:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Must... avoid.... pointing... to....

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

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