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This page is affected by the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. The following rules apply in the case of disputes: For Gdańsk, use the name Danzig between 1308 and 1945 For Gdańsk, use the name Gdańsk before 1308 and after 1945 In biographies of clearly German persons, the name should be used in the form Danzig (Gdańsk) and later Danzig exclusively In biographies of clearly Polish persons, the name should be used in the form Gdańsk (Danzig) and later Gdańsk exclusively. For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig). An English language reference that primarily uses this name should be provided on the talk page if a dispute arises. Reverts to conform with community consensus are excluded from the three-revert rule (3RR). Only the place names can be reverted exempt from the 3RR according to the outcome of this vote, additional changes fall again under the 3RR. Please use descriptive edit summaries. Persistent reverts against community consensus despite multiple warnings may be dealt with according to the rules in Misplaced Pages:Dealing with vandalism. In case of doubt, assume good faith and do not bite newcomers. The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary.

Danzig or Gdańsk?

This is indeed an interesting case; since it it the very takeover of Danzig/Gdańsk that led to the city's Germanization and this event marks the change of Gdansk to Danzig in our wiki nomenclature. Therefore should this article be named 'Teutonic takeover of Danzig' or Teutonic takeover of Gdańsk'? I think that since the city name before the takeover was Gdańsk, it would be logical to use the G version. We may also avoid this trouble by using a neutral name like Polish-Teutonic War (1308–1309).-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  15:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Polish-Teutonic War (1308–1309) is a neutral only in the sense that the Royal Polish forces were not involved at all in the takeover. The Poles did not fight the Order, they were supposed to drive the Brandenburgers away from the town, which was not accomplished. That failure could be covered in Polish-Brandenburgian War (1308) if needed. As for the town naming, the vote, which I had looked up to make sure to pick the consensus name, requires to use "Gdańsk before 1308" and "Danzig between 1308 and 1945". If we ignore the vote in this case in order to determine the name used around 1308, then Historical documents suggest "Danzc (1263), Danczk (1311, 1399, 1410, 1414-1438)". As for "the takeover led to the city's Germanization", well, I started the article to initiate a better coverage of this important event and its time frame than the general article on the city and its history currently can provide. Capital of the Pomeranian Duchy (1138–1294/1308) is a starter, though, maybe parts can be merged in here for a better background. -- Matthead      O       23:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe this article needs to go through WP:RM.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 20:23, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Frankly, the only thing that needs to get fixed is the pre-1308 part of the "vote" above, where Polish POV only prevailed because this early era was not yet covered properly with sources back in 2005. Are there any sources for the claimed use of Polish names at all? I have seen none. How about Dgańska, whatever that is? I've seen Polish sources reporting about existing evidence for German name versions, e.g. "Dantzike" in the pre-1308 era. Besides, your edit is a really good laugh, as you are calling the GDR edition of a work of this author mentioned here a "German source". Freudian slip maybe, as the person had worked in Krakau, Posen and Thorn? How about this or that: Dansko 1180, Dansk, Gdanensis 1209, Dancek, Gdanensis 1224, Danceke 1263, Dantsik, etc. There was exactly one takeover of the city that led to an "X-ization", and that was in 1945. As in 1308, 1410, 1456, 1918, Poles needed others to do the fighting. And again, Kashubians and Germans were slaughtered, not absent Poles.-- Matthead  DisOuß   14:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I find the name proposed by Space Caded (Teutonic takeover of Danzig (Gdańsk)) a reasonable compromise. For the event which marks the name shift to use both is quite reasonable.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 22:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

You guys and making compromises? When and where? Especially Space Cadet is constantly edit warring, even adding Polish names to places in Kaliningrad Oblast, like Tilsit. The vote is clear on that: It's Danzig in 1308. Show me articles on the town that have double naming, then I may consider discussing a name change. And now, move back to original naming.-- Matthead  DisOuß   12:54, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Tylża was a part of the Polish fief Ducal Prussia therefore is sharing a Polish/German history, therefore a Polish name according to the Gdańsk vote. You German ultranationalists only like the Gdańsk vote when it serves your purposes, but you forget that it works both ways. What doyou mean show you an article? Every article that talks about the history of the western and northern Polish territories has double naming. Prussian Confederation, Royal Prussia, Ducal Prussia, Bogusław Radziwiłł e tutti quanti. You're new here or something? Don't play dumb on us (the Misplaced Pages Community) now! Space Cadet (talk) 16:14, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Another double naming article would of course be the most recent version of History of Gdańsk (Danzig). Space Cadet (talk) 18:11, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Moved back to original and proper name. You may try WP:RM, stop warring here.-- Matthead  Discuß   18:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree that per our naming conventions, double naming in titles is not good. Per discussion above, Gdańsk is more correct than Danzig, since if per Gdansk vote we agree that this year and this particular event marks the name change, it is obvious that the Teutonic Knights took over Gdańsk (and changed its name to Danzig), and did not take over Danzig (as the name was not used until after they took it over). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:58, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Come on Piotrus, what is pretty unoriginal non-research. You know very well that German name variants are recorded well before 1308, the Order did not introduce a new name to the town which was inhabited by many German merchants and had received Lübeck rights in the 1220s. The Polish version had gained the upper hand in the vote for the pre-1308 time, even though sources are scarce. The event happened in 1308, the policy is "Danzig between 1308 and 1945", thus "Gdańsk before 1308" does not belong in the article name at all. Once again I ask you to be cooperative and move the article back to its original and proper name Teutonic takeover of Danzig from which it was moved away by Space Cadet three times. -- Matthead  Discuß   18:35, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Please read section on Original Research, the city was not Germanised before 1308, your personal beliefs can't be used as sources. It's absurd to talk about "German merchants"-there was no German identity, no German nation, and no Germany back then. As to city laws that is view that Norman Davies simply points out as ignorant-many cities and towns adopted without any German living within their walls. It was an administrative change unconnected to ethnic situation.--Molobo (talk) 18:49, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Both names are most probably wrong in spelling (whatever "wrong" means, in the middle ages they spelt as they felt). Not that it matters much, but your statement that there was no Germany back then is not correct. Just google for "Regnum Teutonicum" or "East Francia". Polish or German identity kind of existed already. Have fun. Der Eberswalder (talk) 17:55, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Regarding my move from Teutonic Takeover of Gdańsk to Teutonic takeover of Gdańsk, it was merely because the event does not seem to be known formally as the "Teutonic Takeover". Rather, the article is simply describing the takeover of the city by the Teutonic Knights. Whether Gdańsk or Danzig should be used is contentious; my move was simply to make "takeover" be lower-case. The Gdanzig vote indicates that "Danzig" should be used; my opinion is that the event should be described using whichever name reliable sources usually use for the time period in question. Olessi (talk) 20:09, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I strongly suggest we follow the spirit of the vote, it is only logical, as I explained above, that the city name would be changed after the takeover, not before. The logic is the same as in, for example, "splitting atom into subparticles": first, you have atom; than, you have suparticles. The Danzig variant is as logical as saying "splitting subparticles into subparticles" :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 01:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Nope the vote is between 1308 and 1945 (btw it was ignored that the vote was against this actually). So only after 1308. Of course this is historical ignorance in favour of misleading readers as to actual date of Germanisation of the name. But false information on Misplaced Pages is not surprising.--Molobo (talk) 20:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

To be accurate, the vote summary says "use the name Danzig between 1308 and 1945" and "use the name Gdańsk before 1308 and after 1945". Olessi (talk) 22:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

To be even more accurate, this vote - a sad excuse for scholarly expertise - also assumed that "1308: Teutonic Knights", which of course, as this article shows, is not as clear. The TK did not take over Gdansk on the 1st January of the year, and until they did, it was know as Gdansk. It's quite simple - so I strongly suggest we avoid any more wikilawyering w/ regards to this issue.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 22:12, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Piotrus, you ignore the vote, you ignore the conveniently placed coin that shows that Danceke was used well before 1308, and yet you claim "it was know as Gdansk", and perform move warring, together with Space Cadet? The article must be moved back to its original name Teutonic takeover of Danzig, which conforms both to the vote and to sources. -- Matthead  Discuß   20:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

But not to common sense, huh? And what sources, do tell? In any case, if you want this article moved so much, try WP:RM.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The Danzig vote ruled that from the foundation of the city to the Teutonic takeover in 1308 the city will be referred to as "Gdańsk". From that point up to the end of WW II (even for periods when the city was a part of Poland again 1466 - 1792) it will be referred to as "Danzig". The vote itself has only a date "1308" and that's the only base of Matthead's argumentation. Here we can't go by the letter, we have to go by the spirit and common sense. Teutonic Knights invaded GDAŃSK and from then on it is known as Danzig. What he proposes is like calling the city Gdańsk until January 1st 1946, while it returned to Poland already in March 1945. We have to use common sense on this one. The "Danceke" case, of course, is against the Gdańsk vote completely. Space Cadet (talk) 14:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

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