Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 22:25, 6 June 2008

Hi, I presume from your edit that you are knowledgeable about Andrea Antico. Would you please present your evidence that Antico was not of Croatian birth, evidence of sufficient weight to overrule the scholars who contribute to the New Grove, and to justify your removal of cited material from it? Thank you. Antandrus (talk) 19:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

* First: Andrea Antico is the name of the Italian Community of Montona/Motovun!
* Second: show me ONE WORD wrote by Antico in croatian!
* Third: here you can read: "(...) four motet partbook-sets
  variously issued or reissued by the Italian engraver Andrea Antico between 1518 and 1521 (...)"
  --Luigi 28 (talk) 19:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

---> Prof. Josip Andreis ("Music in Croatia", Zagreb, Institut of Musicology-Academy of Music, 1974) took over the 'Croatization' of the name of Andrea Antico from the Zagreb scholar Lovro Zupanovic, but admitted his claims are non generally accepted even among other music historians in Zagreb. In fact, the "Muzika Enciklopedija" (Zagreb, 1971) mentions Zupanovic's claims (under the entry 'Antico') more as an oddity than an established fact. See also: Bojan Bujic, "Music & Letters", Oxford University Press, LVI (34), 441 (1975), p. 441.

Now, I'm waiting for your apology (and sorry for my poor english)--Luigi 28 (talk) 20:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

RE: Your message

Ciao Luigi, non c'è alcun bisogno di scusarsi per il cattivo inglese, nemmeno il mio italiano è ottimo. Ho ancora la sensazione che si dovrebbe discutere sulle modifiche piuttosto che litigare con altri utenti, ci risparmierebbe un sacco di problemi. Ti prego di citare fonti attendibili per ogni modifica. Grazie per i tuoi contributi.

PS: esiste una versione in lingua italia di wikipedia, si trova all'indirizzo http://it.wikipedia.org. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 22:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Grazie mille per il tuo messaggio. Purtroppo da quando ho iniziato a scrivere qualcosa sulla Wiki inglese, sono stato "bersagliato" da due utenti che mi hanno preso per un altro (questo PIO che non conosco). Mi hanno cancellato varie volte ciò che scrivevo, senza nemmeno una spiegazione. Comunque sia, ho iniziato a scrivere anche nella Wiki italiana, sempre con lo stesso nome: "Luigi" (che è il mio vero nome) "28" (che è il giorno in cui sono nato, nel mese di settembre). Adesso ho inserito una fonte per quasi ogni singola parola che ho inserito: credo di essere l'unico utente di Wiki che se non fa così ha subito un falco che gli piomba sulla testa per cancellare tutto quanto! Studio da molti anni la storia dell'Adriatico orientale, e questo sarà in prevalenza il mio campo di intervento. Ancora grazie e ciao.--Luigi 28 (talk) 22:38, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know Luigi, I'll always assume good faith, but to say the least it's odd that your first ever edit was to restore a fact tag that PIO had added , and that on his way out of the door, PIO/Agazio was telling us, without being asked, that he had no connection with you. See User_talk:Agazio. And that Istrian exodus got protected to prevent PIO editing it from his IP, and that you were along within 24 hours of the PP expiring to add census data to it , which, strangely enough, had often been PIO's favourite topic . Now I know that you don't have the same IP as PIO, as a check user has been run, but... AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 10:29, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

1. I'm not Pio. I don't know mr. Pio. My REAL name is Luigi, like my nickname. I'm Venetian. I repeat: if you want, I can send to you my telephone number, so you can hear my voice. I haven't the same IP as PIO, because I'm not that PIO! Take it easy.
2. I wrote about Istria and Dalmatia many, many time in my life. My name in the Italian Wiki is the same (Luigi 28). I have more than 350 books about Istria, Fiume (Rijeka) and Dalmatia. My grand-grandfather was from Lussino (Losinj), my father-in-law came from Fiume (Rijeka), where he's born in 1918. His family was authocthonous in Fiume (Rijeka), from XVIIth century.
3. Do you have a SINGLE source about this fact: <<Alleanza Nazionale has often claimed that Italy paid too much for her defeat in WWII, repeating that "Dalmatia was stolen to Italy">>? I'm Italian and I'm sure that I've NEVER read that "Dalmatia was stolen to Italy". NEVER! But I'm waiting for your source. Than, if you (or everyone else) don't have a source, maybe (MAYBE!) this fact can be erased, right?
4. My census data is completely correct. I have here three books regarding the Austrian, Italian and Yugoslav censa: G.Perselli, I censimenti della popolazione dell‘Istria, con Fiume e Trieste, e di alcune città della Dalmazia tra il 1850 e il 1936, Unione Italiana Fiume - Università Popolare di Trieste, Trieste-Rovigno, 1993; O.Mileta Mattiuz, Popolazioni dell‘Istria, Fiume, Zara e Dalmazia (1850-2002). Ipotesi di quantificazione demografica, ADES, Trieste 2005; La Comunità Nazionale Italiana nei censimenti jugoslavi 1945-1991, Unione Italiana di Fiume - Università Popolare di Trieste, Trieste-Rovigno, 2001. What are YOUR sources about censa?--Luigi 28 (talk) 11:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Luigi, I don't even know what it means to say "Dalmatia was stolen to Italy". It's such poor English as to be open to various interpretations. Does it mean "stolen by Italy or "stolen from Italy"? I have no idea. The reason that I removed the fact tag was not on its merits, as I don't even understand the sentence, but because I was reverting the edit of a banned user who was working from his IP, thinking we would not recognise him. Thus, it was rather unusual, if you are not PIO, for your very first edit to be to restore his fact tag, especially where the sentence makes no sense. As for your other points about census data and so on, well, I have never said your data is incorrect. I simply pointed out that it's a topic that a certain other (former) editor is also very interested in.

By the way, is this you ? Just wondering. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 14:58, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

1. "Dalmatia is stolen to Italy": is IN the voice "Italia irredenta". If you think that is unclear (for me is not only unclear, but WRONG!), erase it! 2. Yes: this was one of my first messages in Misplaced Pages.--Luigi 28 (talk) 21:23, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

1. I have no idea what you're trying to say under "1."

2. Yep, you're PIO alright. Hi PIO! :D --DIREKTOR 01:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

1. Voglio dire che la frase "La Dalmazia è stata rubata all'Italia" non l'ho mai sentita dire qui in Italia. Hai una fonte? Se non ce l'hai, bisogna cancellarla.
2. Tu sei folle.
3. Io VOGLIO L'INTERVENTO DI UN AMMINISTRATORE!!!!--Luigi 28 (talk) 07:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Luigi, may I ask again if you are the same Luigi that made this edit . Yes or no? AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 08:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Ad I write again (look above): YES. It was one of my first messages in Misplaced Pages.--Luigi 28 (talk) 09:05, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Interesting, 'Luigi'. Therefore, it was also you that wrote this and this , where you got confused about which IP you were using, and this and this and this and this and all these . There's also a remarkable similarity between this and this and this where you were 'Nemo', and this where you were Agazio. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 11:40, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm only the first two!!! I'm not Nemo, I'm not Agazio, I'm not the others!!! Ragazzi, tu e HERR DIREKTOR siete dei cacciatori di nuvole!!!--Luigi 28 (talk) 11:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Another one thing: my name is not 'Luigi' but Luigi, and my last name is Vianelli.--Luigi 28 (talk) 11:50, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure they are not all you Luigi? If you click on the IP addresses, then at the user contributions screen click on WHOIS at the bottom left of the page, it tells us they are all the same. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 11:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

• "It tells us they are all the same"?? Are you fool or simply ignorant? It tells that all the messages coming from the same provider here in Italy have the same provider!!!--Luigi 28 (talk) 13:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Are you CRAZY? Do you think that I didn't know who I am? MAKE ALL THE CONTROLS YOU WANT! Esistono delle regole in Misplaced Pages o è solo una giungla dove due Sherlock Holmes come TE e HERR DIREKTOR fate il bello e il cattivo tempo? For me this affaire is unbelievable!!!--Luigi 28 (talk) 12:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

LOOK: I'm this one:
--Luigi 28 (talk) 12:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Luigi, you know who you are. Your problem is that everyone else also knows. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 12:50, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

My problem? I haven't problem with myself! This is YOUR problem!!!--Luigi 28 (talk) 12:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Re

Look PIO, the sources you added were biased, thoroughly. Is it too much to ask that you find some English and/or Croatian sources. It should be easy enough for a Croatian city... Italian sources like to Italianize any and all names that could in any way be associated with an Italian.

For example, have a look at Bošković. "Bošković" is a typical South Slavic name, the suffix "-ić" (pronounced: "-ich") being present in almost half of all Croatian and Serbian names. The suffix "-ić", while it has no meaning whatsoever in Italian, is actually the most common suffix generally used to create a diminutive. You will also find it in Russian names. The text of the surname ending with "-ić" usually has the name of an ancestor's father. Example: let's take a typical South Slavic name, "Ivan Marković". Here "Marković" means that an ancestor of "Ivan Marković" was called "Marko", and that his sons were afterwards known as "Marković" because of that. "Bošković" simply means that an early ancestor of Bošković was called "Boško" (a common Slavic name), and that his offspring were, for one reason or another, known henceforth as "Bošković".
Here's another, more famous example: take the Serbian and later Yugoslav royal House of Karađorđević (pronounced: "Karadjordjevich"). A famous ancestor of theirs was Karađorđe, and they were afterwards known as the "Karađorđević" family. --DIREKTOR 02:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I repeat: WHAT KIND OF SOURCES DO YOU PREFER?!? I can send to you Internet sources (Croatian!!! From the Historic Institute of Zagreb!!!!) or some books (also Croatian!!!!). WHAT KIND OF SOURCES DO YOU PREFER?!?!?
I don't care about the Italianization of the name. I don't care about the ethnicity of Boscovich. You don'know NOTHING about the old City Mayors of Rijeka (Fiume), that's simply the FACT.

The names of my family are also:
1. Smoquina
2. Barbalich
3. Mrak
4. Iovanovich
Do you think that I don't know something about the names of Fiume/Rijeka? The name of one of the founders of the National Party in Dalmatia was Bianchini/Biankini: an Italian name! The name of one of the most important irredentisti in Zadar was Ghiglianovich: a Croat name! So, I don't care about the spelling of the names or about the tipycal South Slavic or tipycal Italian names. One of the officials in the Italian fleet in the Battle of Lissa/Vis was the guardiamarina Ivancovich from Parenzo/Porec: a tipycal South Slavic name. Well: he was an Austrian officier, who left to go in Italy and fight for the Regia Marina! You have many, many problems of interpretation of the historical facts!--Luigi 28 (talk) 08:09, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Why are you constantly talking about the mayors of Rijeka?! Did I revert your last edit? Let's forget that, shall we? --DIREKTOR 08:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

HERR DIREKTOR! I'm talking about:
1. Tipycal names
2. The Mayors of Rijeka (Fiume)
Have you seen ALSO the first point?

I'm talking about the Mayors of Rijeka, because YOUR words were: "the sources you added were biased, thoroughly.".

A question for you: why the name in the voice "Losinj" is also in Italian, and the same is impossible for "Cres (town)"?

PS I'M NOT PIO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--Luigi 28 (talk) 09:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I know, you're Luigi. Your Misplaced Pages name was PIO, though... --DIREKTOR 12:03, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

HELP!!! Two fools are gambling with me!!!--Luigi 28 (talk) 12:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

("Gambling with..." LoL!) Ok, if you're not User:PIO, please try to answer the following four questions (in English) without trying to avoid it:

1) Why do you edit the exact same articles as User:PIO ands his socks? You do, that is beyond dispute.

2) Why was your very first edit on Misplaced Pages the restoration of a fact tag added by User:PIO and his socks?

3) Why did User:PIO state taht he has nothing to do with you when nobody even asked him about you, mentioned you, or pointed you out to him?

4) How come you added PIO's census data to the Istrian "exodus" article within hours of the removal of the semi-protection against PIO?

--DIREKTOR 13:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

1. I would like to see the exact list of articles edited by PIO
1. Than, you can report the exact list edited by me
2. I don't knew that PIO added a fact tag.
3. I don't know why User:PIO stated that he has nothing to do with me. I know that I have nothing to do with User:PIO
4. I added the census data, but - if now I read correctly - not the same of User:PIO. I wrote that I have three books about the Austrian/Italian/Yugoslav censa. If I would to add a tabel with that censa in Istrian "exodus" article, maybe do I have to write to you before?
--Luigi 28 (talk) 17:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Of course, you're just editing, its all just an (incredible) cosmic accident, isn't it... I'm sorry I doubted your word, PIO. Edit all you want for the time being. --DIREKTOR 22:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Warning

This is your only warning; if you make personal attacks on others again, as you did at User talk:WBOSITG, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. --DIREKTOR 13:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Noticeboard thread

Hi Luigi,

Courtesy notice that there is a thread about you on the Administrators' Noticeboard. If I may give some gentle advice -- you may remember me from the Andrea Antico article, where you accused Martin Picker, the world expert on Antico, of committing a "forgery" -- your Wiki career is likely to be a long and profitable one if you strive to contribute good, sourced, WP:NPOV content to articles, rather than arguing and edit-warring with other editors at every occasion. Looking at your contributions, I see that the Antico experience is repeated elsewhere. Are you here to help us build an encyclopedia, or to fight with people? Honestly. If you are truly writing from a neutral point of view it should be impossible to tell where your national sympathies lie; is this true? Do you believe that you are editing from a neutral point of view? Most respectfully, Antandrus (talk) 14:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)