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Having never seen your edits before, I cannot speak to any bad habit you may or may not have regarding brash editing without consensus. However, what you did to ] and the resultant ] is completely not acceptable. As the person who created the template originally I will ask you kindly to reconsider before intruding the way you have. ] is one thing; being ] is different. Please consider that in the future. • <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#C00000">]''<small>]''</small></font></span> 04:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Having never seen your edits before, I cannot speak to any bad habit you may or may not have regarding brash editing without consensus. However, what you did to ] and the resultant ] is completely not acceptable. As the person who created the template originally I will ask you kindly to reconsider before intruding the way you have. ] is one thing; being ] is different. Please consider that in the future. • <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#C00000">]''<small>]''</small></font></span> 04:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
== Suggestion ==
Hello, Sardanaphalus! I run across your template moves frequently and see the resulting confusion from some of them. Because of that, I read your talk page every now and again. From what I see, usually editors understand your logic, however it is only after a long and entirely unnecessary all-out throw-down. Therefore, before you continue any further, I have a suggestion for you that I hope your consider seriously. Please create a standard message ''using clear language'' — that part seems to always trip you up :) — explaining the reason for your move and save it on a userpage. Then, '''before''' you move a template, cut & paste your message onto that template's talk page and wait 1-3 days for replies. After you have received a consensus of some sort, ''then'' move the template. Thoughts? --] (]) 14:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Revision as of 14:06, 11 July 2008
Generic top-level domains
Hi, thanks for improving Template:Generic top-level domains. Apparently "navbox with sections" was unified with "navbox with groups", and the docu is not complete, it does not mention sect2=. On about two pages I want the second section or group expanded, and adding selected={{{1|gTLD}}} with abbr1=gTLD and abbr2=prop did the trick, {{GTLD|prop}} expands the second section. But it doesn't collapse the first section, if you have an idea how to get only one (default first) expanded section it would be better. See Proposed top-level domain for an article where expanding only the second section (instead of both or the first) makes sense. --217.184.142.60 (talk) 12:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
You need an Efffing degree
to program this abortion you turned this formerly straightforward template into. Are you really so naive to think your play improved a damn thing or added any value whatever? Where's the capability to say its a category for internal links for example. You provided external, but the only internal links option you give in your inexperience is navbox templates, and made that relatively rare need the default, forsooth. AT LEAST restore the functionality and PARAMETERS it had before you started fiddling. Particularly {{{1}}} and {{{2}}}. IIRC, it had ALTTEXT and perhaps a few more as well. Amateur! In case it hadn't occurred to you some people have trouble spelling so long parameter words like description just waste time. Making people wade through five examples to figure out how it might be used also wastes their time. What are you gonna to to make that good to people? All because you felt like playing for a couple of weeks. Sheesh!
{{{1|description}}} will do and such functionality, once in place should be maintained through any evolution. So go back and fix your oversights. I hope like hell you don't approach work like this. Do you realize you pretty much doubled the length of the edit history in your fiddles? And still failed to maintain backwards compatibility. Amazing. Simply amazing. // FrankB05:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi. Sorry if I've broken something in the above. The description parameter is still there and should work as before. I haven't seen any problems yet. Some idea of where you've seen a problem would be helpful. Sardanaphalus (talk) 05:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
PS Maybe you should move the "Gone!" text from the top of your page -- or are you still in the process of leaving?
I'll tend my own user pages, but thank you. I'm making a statement about silly assed policies. Check the edit history. I'll probably go back to the old display one of these days. Don't really have the time.
The problem is it's now complicated on how to apply it so it says what needs said and not say what's not wanted like nav templates... Never heard of the KISS principle? Just got it to go with a display that will do for a new cat, but you need to put parameters in that you took out... you have no idea where they were used nor how often. Apparently you don't even recall them. I hate named params when they're unneeded! Unexpected use of template {{2}} - see Template:2 for details.You made an amazing amount of edits on something which makes just a simple message. Wish I had that kind of spare time... which is why I'm ticked... I don't have extra time, so figuring out how to make something work the same is taking from me. I should have created that page in two minutes... instead it's a good half-hour later! Strongly suggest you take the switch default and make it ... navbox templates won't do. // FrankB05:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
YOU DON'T GET IT... it's the time spent figuring out why {{{1}}} and such no longer worked, and peeking under the hood of the new version that takes time. SO do all these messages... because of the lack of backwards compatibility. As far as the specific page, I work very carefully, and it's still in the edit buffer. Was gonna create it, but decided that a new cat was silly now that I could make your named params play ball. So, (irony here-you were the last to edit this!) this is "it"... without the unwanted extra category which would have said Geology typing-aid templates. // FrankB05:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Here, have a buffer
now I can finish writing templates
{{template category
|topic = ]|type=internal linking|description=<hr><br/><br/>These templates form high need links into articles and obviate need to pipetrick article page names containing the asuffixed "(geology)" for disambigulation. At need they will take an alternate pipetrick as {{{1}}}.
}}
]
]
Even I can work fast if I know what I'm doing... not bad. Eight in less than ten minutes with an intervening post to you. I've been daze getting back to the page that inspired these, so that adds a bit to me ire. But I beg of you. If you're gonna be a template guru here, be a good one... don't make changes that aren't backwards compatible. Better to write a new template than change an old one so it works differently. Cheers. // FrankB06:11, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Look, {{{1}}}, {{{2}}}, and iirc, ALTTEXT were all parameters in the template before you messed with it. Doesn't it strike you that perhaps someone might have used those alternative inputs somewhere somehow along the way and that your changes have effectively broken such pages??? I know for a fact there are many template categories which didn't use the named parameters, and if I did, I used ALTTEXT. Unexpected use of template {{2}} - see Template:2 for details.I helped set up the current template category schema last winter-spring along with David and Mike. I ALSO exported many templates to other sisters... see for example how your template fails on it's own talk page. Unexpected use of template {{2}} - see Template:2 for details.When those tests work again... you'll have gotten the point, and corrected enough that the template is backwards compatible. Right now, they don't. They did, and will again should I revert to the first time or two you touched it. A few iterations after that, maybe as well—but I'm pretty sure things were going to hell by your tenth edit on it, give or take. Looking at that is/was part of that half-hour too. PERIOD EFFING DOT. Unexpected use of template {{2}} - see Template:2 for details.Now, excuse me, I'm trying to concentrate on good prose... our product. Our purpose. I should be in bed! // FrankB06:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
"Simplify, restore basic message without shortsighted and arrogant assumption of types. You were warned. NAVBOXES cannot be defaulted. too many other kinds"
Why is treating navboxes as if they are a default "shortsighted and arrogant"? Isn't "NAVBOXES cannot be defaulted. too many other kinds" flawed reasoning?
I didn't realize I was being given a "warning", only that you were trying to point something out to me. Is it okay to discuss the problem you've found? I'm still wondering why whatever you're trying to do requires fixed numbered parameters. If it can't use parameter names, perhaps a different, more flexible, more forward-compatible approach is needed?
Why not use Whatlinkshere and SURVEY the many other kinds of categorised by types template pages there are that are NOT Navboxes. Infoboxes, Typing-aid templates, etc. Misplaced Pages administration templates... the lists go on and on. Defaulting to something NOT plain vanilla means 'instantly those pages are MADE wrong... CREATING WORK, information confusion, AT THE LEAST.
The original plain vanilla template did a nice simple message... having a "single overriding mission""This is a Template Category Listing Templates"—that's the only mission that template has, all else is frills. All these tricks you installed are just play on your part. SORRY, but as an emperor, you have no clothes on on this matter...
On flexibility, WHY? What rationale reason can you cite for the time you've already spent on a template whose sole purpose is to alert readers they aren't in a wikipedia category, but an administrative category of some sort. Look at the page history from genesis to last Fall/winter. Play with something that will help the project, forsooth!
Sorry to seem shrill on this, but you've invested time in something that in the grand scheme of things really doesn't matter much, save for the primary mission, and your changes BREAK THAT and install confusion.
Adopt this simple rule... Template:Iif tempted to change a widespread template, change it solely so it still functions the way it was originally applied. See for example the test I did in {{Tt3}} several days ago to restore equivalence in {{template doc page viewed directly}}here simply because others broke that maxim... breaking original functionality and in the later case, portability. Even common.css changes do thatsometimes. In practice, that means you can usually add a parameter, and logic to handle the difference that parameter implements... but you shouldn't and can't make sweeping changes that make pages "WRONG". Particularly those that REQUIRE A PAGE TO CORRECTLY DEFINE A PARAMETER to make your changes operate correctly You don't see anything wrong with your logic on that basis? God help you if you don't now! That by the way is what I meant by arrogant... perhaps just ignorant of the big pictiure? Hope so. Any more questions? // FrankB18:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply.
Treating one kind of template, navbox/navigational, as default doesn't mean other types are ignored or "MADE wrong"; it just means it's being treated as a default. So, why the navbox type and why treat it as a default anyway? Well, there are far more navbox templates than any other, so, if that type is taken as a default, it eliminates the need for an extra layer of many categories called "...navbox templates".
Where is it ordained that the sole purpose of {{template category}} is "to alert readers they aren't in a wikipedia category"? What I've seen in template categories is confusion (or laziness) over what templates to put in them, not confusion from an attempt to indicate what that should be (i.e. the previous {{template category}} version).
It appears that the only thing that was broken is a box providing interwiki links. It isn't my intention to break anything, so I'm sorry if that's what's happened. Isn't it possible to adapt the interwiki box to handle the change?
Because it wasn't apparent that something (the interwiki box) had been broken unless an external link was followed, some slack would be appreciated. Sardanaphalus (talk) 19:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Strongly disagree with assertion that navbox templates are the predominant type. Give a citation! <G> Look, you simply can't immediately show the wrong thing on a page, and changing a template replicates immediately. Either you've got to visit all tagged categories and verify they're apropos for your navbox assumption, or visit all the navbox categories and do something for THEIR TAGGING. CAN'T DO PROPER TAGGING unless you do one or the other. See for example {{Tracking Category}} and ..., oh, hell, I forget. But bottom line is your assumption is flawed and inappropriate.
Go fix the calls in whichever, then change the template... is ok, but at what benefit? Personally, I think you have too much time on your hands. Template:IAs far as "where is it written", well, I was in the talk page discussions back when where the idea was floated. Damn if I'm going to check histories, but most were hung by me, Mike Peel (talk·contribs·count) or David Kernow (talk·contribs·count), if you check cat history's. We three (mainly those two, but my finger was in the mix since I was revamping commons Map categories along side David and in the middle of TSP's startup... so categories names affect that. See template:interwikicat-grp and template:interwikitmp-grp links, for some.) put the template categories by namespaces schema in place, and template talk:template categories - Tried mightily to run those diffs down, but time presses... so maybe I can find later. Right now I need to close things up on three sisters, as my system really wants to reboot! 'Naggingly'... Damn auto-updates got turned on by my son!) Tagged most of those you're affecting.
Clueless on this: "It appears that the only thing that was broken is a box providing interwiki links. It isn't my intention to break anything, so I'm sorry if that's what's happened. Isn't it possible to adapt the interwiki box to handle the change?" Template:II'm making edits concurrently on three to five sisterprojects at some moments... a lot the last few days (Daze!), so not sure what edit you are referring to, or if that was sole need...
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Assumptions in software are dangerous FANGED BEASTs—Ware!
So answer me this, if that's not the one phrase mission statement for the purpose of that template, WHAT IS??? Sheesh!
Don't need to thank me for having a discourse... so thanks yourself.Template:I The mission statement of wikipedia talk pages is? (Extra bonus points if correct answer on this exam. <g>) // FrankB20:08, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Sardanaphalus! Just a head's up, I would strongly suggest you post your move reasons to the talk page ASAP before you receive a load of messages on your talk page. FYI. Rgrds. --Tombstone (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Heads up: when you used AWB to replace "AfricanAmerican" with "African American topics (sidebar)", it broke some URLs. e.g. – Quadell14:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Discrimination templates
Can you help me understand all of what you did here? It looks clearly to me that whereas {{Discrimination}} used to be a sidebar format, it's now a footer format. That's going to create havoc on pages that use it. - Keith D. Tyler¶16:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
I guess I don't object to coming in line with convention, if that's the way it is (I don't think this convention existed at the time... it was rare in fact to see two versions of templates, but it became a practical necessity). Problem is that it's caused a few problems. For one, templates don't redirect when they are transcluded (for example, see Antisemitism#External_links). - Keith D. Tyler¶16:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Never mind, I see what is going on.... Template:Discriminationfooter leading to double redirect... so an easy fix. I guess that takes care of any problems. Sorry :) - Keith D. Tyler¶16:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Being bold
Being bold is one thing, but I was curious if there was any centralized discussion regarding some of the renaming of templates that you have preformed, and then the related semi-automated updating of links. Seems like that is something that an approved bot should do, and it seems like there should be discussion regarding some of these changes. For example, I don't see any reason to delete the old templates as redirects are cheap (for example, someone using the search function to locate a template under the old name, which you happened to change without announcement or discussion, could be shocked to find that it has been deleted). Anyway, if there was some centralized discussion related to your changes, I apologize and would like to be directed toward it. If there wasn't, you may want to consider getting community backing for these renaming of templates before you do any more damage. Thanks for your consideration.-Andrew c01:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure why you haven't answered me regarding a centralized discussion on these renamings. At the very least, can you please stop requesting that redirects be deleted and stop changing archived talk and wikipedia pages (such as this). -Andrew c03:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Family rights
Having never seen your edits before, I cannot speak to any bad habit you may or may not have regarding brash editing without consensus. However, what you did to Template:FamilyRights and the resultant Template:Family rights is completely not acceptable. As the person who created the template originally I will ask you kindly to reconsider before intruding the way you have. Being bold is one thing; being rude is different. Please consider that in the future. • Freechild'sup?04:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Suggestion
Hello, Sardanaphalus! I run across your template moves frequently and see the resulting confusion from some of them. Because of that, I read your talk page every now and again. From what I see, usually editors understand your logic, however it is only after a long and entirely unnecessary all-out throw-down. Therefore, before you continue any further, I have a suggestion for you that I hope your consider seriously. Please create a standard message using clear language — that part seems to always trip you up :) — explaining the reason for your move and save it on a userpage. Then, before you move a template, cut & paste your message onto that template's talk page and wait 1-3 days for replies. After you have received a consensus of some sort, then move the template. Thoughts? --Tombstone (talk) 14:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
