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Revision as of 01:46, 17 July 2008

Tubeship Chronicles (archive)

The issue of civility

Hi Beamathan. This remark by you was brought to my attention, and now I notice the friendly exchanges in the above sections of this talk page.

For the collaboration between editors to take place fruitfully, especially on conflictive and sensitive topics such as Kosovo, a reasonable degree of civility, tact and respect is required. We're asked to avoid upsetting other editors wherever possible, especially by avoiding unnecessary non-constructive remarks that we know may upset others.

That remark added nothing to the article's improvement, and could very well irritate some people. You'll help us all by avoiding similar comments in the future.

In any case, keep in mind that civility is subservient to the basic goal of writing an encyclopedia; of collaborating to improve the articles without disrupting the work of other bona fide editors in one way or another.

If you haven't done so yet, please take the time to read carefully our core principles, talk page guidelines and civility policy. You will find them quite usefull to facilitate your editing, and may help you avoid some bad experiences.

And congratulations for the part you played in helping to stabilize the article on Kosovo :-) Just try to keep a cool head while continuing your collaboration in this delicate area. - Best regards, Ev (talk) 21:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Heh, I hope you don't consider anything at face value sir. The remark that you even quoted was only in response to her/him "LOL"ing at me. And I didn't attack, merely commented. My Talk Page is simply so that she/he will leave me alone. There have been many accusations against me simply because I am very neutral and won't support kosvars or serbs. And thank you for noticing the work I've put in to this article. It's appreciated. I will continue to defend an NPOV, for as long as it takes. Beam 23:36, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, I'm very sorry to hear that we have editors who take the time to complain and snitch on other users. I have been insulted many times, however I understand that most of these people are simply emotional about a cause they believe in very much, and I forgive them. When editors start turning on other editors it's a sad sight. Beam 23:38, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

This was not really snitching, but an issue of balance and fairness, and the perception of it. In any case, irrespective of context, your comment was not precisely civil, and was unnecessary, since nothing productive could come out of it.

I have been editing Kosovo-related articles since July 2006, so that by now I have an idea of the problems it entails. I know what you are talking about :-) You will soon find out that adhering to our talk page guidelines and civility policy (even when you're irritated or others are rude) greatly facilitates your editing experience, and that of everyone else.

I hope to continue seeing good work from you in the coming months. Have a nice weekend :-) Regards, Ev (talk) 00:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the kindness, but i hope you noticed the preceding comment, and subsequent comment. If mine is to be construed as an insult, than what are they? And if you've read my talk page, you'll se that that person has lied about me and basically depicted me as an asshole. And it's not even true! That's the reason I have these particular exchanges saved on my talk page Ev. So people can see that when he/she makes a comment on the Kosovo:Talk that she/he has lied in the past. Beam 00:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

And also the fact that she's previously attacked me, should give you an idea of why i said what I said. Does it make it right to have said that? No. It doesn't, and I should be better than that. But it wasn't exactly uncalled for. Beam 00:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I did look at the general context. Tubesship behaviour has not been helpful, and I have told him so. But, as you aknowledge, two wrongs don't make a right... and Misplaced Pages is not a battleground. – I greately appreciate this edit. - Ev (talk) 01:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

After reading your appalling comments, I would have blocked both you and Tubesship had Húsönd not done it before. If you are not able to remain polite, even when others make you angry, then you won't be able to contribute to Misplaced Pages in a usefull way.

In a controvertial area such as the Balkans, where sensibilites and emotions run high, you'll often find yourself in situations that put your patience and spirits to the test. If you don't have the ability to deal with that politely, then you're probably going to be blocked for the same thing again.

We need more "neutral", civil editors in these areas of Misplaced Pages. But incivility and personal attacks are unacceptable. They must stop.

In a 2007 arbitration case, administrators were given the power to impose discretionary sanctions on any user editing Balkans-related articles in a disruptive way. If you engage in further inappropriate behaviour in this area, you may be placed under sanctions including blocks, a revert limitation or an article ban. Thank you. - Ev (talk) 15:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I hope this is a joke. Did you not read what was said? At all? You have to be joking. Please let me know you're joking. Beam 22:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Congradulations for helping resolve the Kosovo article dispute

Hi Bemathan, I'm User:R-41, I've been one of albeit a minority of moderate editors for the Kosovo article page who has strived to make it neutral as you have. I'm grateful to meet another user committed to neutrality on the issue. All I and most other Wikipedians have wanted is a clear, concise and neutral article on Kosovo, however fanatic partisan nationalists of the Albanian and Serb camps think they own the Kosovo article and have used it in the past to wage their edit wars with each other. For me as neither an Albanian or a Serb, but a Canadian viewing that the international community is split on recognition of Kosovo independence, I was dissappointed in how long it took Misplaced Pages to move to an NPOV position on the matter, but am grateful that people like you have pushed for NPOV on the issue. If you know any more moderates on the Kosovo issue, please inform me. As I imagine you know, it is very difficult to curb off attacks from partisans alone, and finding more moderate editors for topics on Kosovo will be quite useful in stopping future edit wars. Thanks for your help!--R-41 (talk) 02:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Pristina

Please would you give your view here
Thanks Ijanderson977 (talk) 16:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

An Autonomous Province, The Autonomous Province

Surly its self evident that the correct article to use is the definite article, "the". There is only one object that we are talking about. You can only use the indifinite article, "a" or "an", when refering to an object that is part of a class of larger objects, and you do not intend to refer to a particular object within that class.

1. it is OK to say "Serbia claims Kosovo as an autonomous province" (there are a number of autonomous provinces, of which Kosovo is one.)

2. it is also OK to say "Serbia claims Kosovo as the Autonomous Province of Kosovo and M"

you can't say "Serbia claims Kosovo as an Autonomous Province of Kosovo and M" because it implies that there is more than one Autonomous Province of Kosovo and M - clearly there is not. Sentence 1.

In general, proper noun (ie names of actual objects, people or countries) can only be preceeded by the (ie the Frence Republic or the Atlantic Ocean, never a French Republic or an Atlantic Ocean - the latter implies that there are several French Republics and I am refering to any of them.

If you don't understand - please just post again and I'll think of a better way 2 explain.

Thanks

APM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2007apm (talk • contribs) 22:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

There is more than one province in Serbia. The Autonomous Province of Kosovo and... is just one of those provinces, unless I'm wrong and it's the only province in Serbia. If I'm wrong than we'll keep the "the", but if I'm right and there is more than one province, the correct term is "an" for reasons for which you seem to already understand. Luckily I'm such a nice guy I won't take offense to the insinuation that I am not competent in the English language. Let me know if you don't understand, and I'll try to explain it in a different, simpler, way. Beam 22:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Re. RoK Redirect

No, Beamathan, as you can read first and most in the summary I provided, "users searching for "Republic of Kosovo" may well be searching for plain Kosovo itself and all its related matters". The fact that the section you want it to redirect is a pathetic one line is just one more reason. Please don't create a problem where there is not a problem. Regard, Húsönd 01:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I explained it to you sir. You are creating the problem. I won't enter into an edit war tonight, but I will change it back tomorrow. Myself and others are correct to do it that way. You have a problem with the section in the Kosovo article. You should put your effort into improving that section instead of incorrectly redirecting something, against not only logic but myself and DAB. Simply saying the section isn't' good doesn't mean it is not the correct redirect. I ask you to revert it yourself, so I don't have to. This will allow you to take your own advice regarding problems. Regard, Beam 02:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Beam, it's futile to threat an incoming revert war. Revert wars never go the way of those who start them unilaterally. There's no consensus for your intended redirect target, and that should suffice for you to give up on this. Siding with dab won't help. And I don't really see what's the purpose of accusing me of trying to get my way when I was merely undoing an unilateral and rather unreasonable action. Think about it. Regards, Húsönd 02:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? I'm not threating a revert war! Wow! Anyway, telling me to give up is very strange and I'd even consider that against Misplaced Pages. And for you tell me to "think about it" is either an example of drastic ignorance on your part or you're actually being a {{rpa}}. I can't honestly tell, but either way I don't appreciate your needless condescending tone. And last time I checked unilateral didn't mean me and another editor who are quite well versed in the Kosovo articles on Misplaced Pages. Let's go over the facts AGAIN:

- The Kosovo article is about Kosovo.

- The Kosovo article has a section about the RoK

- Someone looking for the RoK is probably looking to read about the RoK.

With those facts, how can you call it unreasonable? Pretty strange Husond my friend, it's as if you have some sort of agenda, and by belittling me you feel that my opinions are invalid. Again, I think your problem is with the section on RoK. I recommend you beef up the section, so that when they get redirected there they'll be something to read.

Think about it. Regards, Beam 03:40, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

And your edit summary is insulting Husond. Pretty blatantly too. You really get {{rpa}}, huh? You have just dropped all pretense of discussion and exchange of ideas, and relegated your actions to pointed negativity and ill reason. Beam 03:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

We might have not started out communication well, but since you insisted that my major edit to the article on Kosovo be reverted, please keep an eye on the latest undiscussed major edits by Boze Pravde. Thank you very much for your efforts!--Getoar (talk) 05:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Re. Defying Logic

Sorry, like most users I don't provide my phone number. But I shall remind you once again of WP:CIVIL, which you have breached on my talk page. Húsönd 17:27, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Right, remind of where it says POV Pushing is ok...? Do you have a link to that? I'd like that, very much. Beam 17:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Recommendation

I see you are new here and based on your edit log I do not see you have contributed with anything else than edit wars in the Kosovo article. With this recommendation I have good intensions and would recommend you to first read about the issue you are discussing and then come back and discuss in a polite way and remember that other people's bias do not justify your own bias. As some other editors said: Two wrongs don't make a right. :-) --Noah30 (talk) 19:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I almost just choked on my coffee. You'd be funny if you weren't being an (Personal attack removed). Beam 19:31, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Now I have a new recommendation. Based on what you wrote in my talk page I think you should take a break and come back after some weeks. Right now I feel you are thinking black and white and excluded the things in-between. With this attitude and feelings of being betrayed I don't think you will be able to be an neutral editor. I have not seen your edits that contributed towards NPOV in the article but if it is true than I am very grateful. Please take into consideration this second recommendation. I believe even if you feel betrayed by RoK's supporters this can not justify anti-RoK edits. --Noah30 (talk) 20:12, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

You are very confused friend. There should be no "pro-RoK" edits, so if reverting such things are "anti-RoK" edits than there should be MORE OF THEM! Seriously man, you need to drop your bias. I won't let RoK Nationalists or Serb Nationalist push their POVs and that includes you. Beam 20:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC) And that betrayal isn't a sign that RoK POV Pushers are necessarily bad, it's a sign that people will go to great lengths to get their POV Pushed. And that neutral editors must act fervently to prevent it. Which I will. Beam 20:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I really shouldn't be butting in here, but what the hell. Guys, stop telling each other you don't contribute anything. I can't really say much for Noah, because I haven't really followed his edits. What I can say is that Beam is definitely a worthwhile contributor, and seems to always put neutrality first. That being said, Beam, you do get a bit aggressive (for want of a better word) when it comes to other views (be they nationalist or not). And if/when you are right, you should be a bit more on the nice side, even if you don't think it's warranted. Maybe one or two days (not months) of a break could help, but it's up to you. Don't feel obliged to stop the nationalists, because there are always others to cover for you. Now everybody please put personal feelings aside to improve the article. BalkanFever 09:50, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

favour ...

is the correct BE spelling. I do not want to argue that this is more applicable to a non-native English speaking, European country--what many people would probably do. My point is more that you should know what you are dismissing before you get excited on incorrect spellings. Anyway, you are right the style found in the Kosovo article abysmal and I wish you success improving it. I have chosen not to lie hands on this article, because of the abhorrent atmosphere prevailing the necessary discussions on its talk page. Tomeasy (talk) 23:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL! I'm not retarded. I'm aware that it is the correct British spelling. However this article is in American English. It's not that favour is wrong by itself, but within this article it is. Beam 00:27, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Re. RE: Your comment to my new section on the Kosovo Talk Page entitled "The rest of the article"

No, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to send a simple message that your participation in discussions regarding Kosovo have been going from bad to worse. Your incivility is growing at a steady pace, virtually all of your comments carry some sort of aggressive, rude or arrogant attitude. Then your bossy calls on "Kosovo experts" or on "takers for working on sections you believe need to be worked on" isn't really a constructive approach. If you think something needs to be done, then go ahead and do it (or discuss what you plan to do). But don't be suggesting hard work for others, suggesting is easy but rather useless on Misplaced Pages. We're all volunteers here. I wasn't trying to make you look like an idiot on my comment, I was just using a little bit of sarcasm in order to soften this message. But you clearly did not understand my point. I'm not against you or anyone else, I'm just trying to control the smooth progress of discussions on the topic of Kosovo. And lately you have often displayed a negative cooperation. Particularly when it comes to language, which will likely grant you a topic ban unless you moderate your tone and speech. I apologize for having to sound rather blunt. Regards, Húsönd 12:10, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Your sarcasm is lacking and pointless. And I will be doing the work on the pages, in fact my little section there DOES explain what I'm doing. You either don't get it, or are continuing to screw with me. I can't tell which. Beam 15:48, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Reply -- Pristina

For the discussion on recent edits made against consensus please view Mareklug's talk page where it was moved, and continued in it's entirety. Thanks Beam 01:56, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Editing of the Kosovo article's Intro

O.k., thanks for your advice.--Andrija (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

May 2008

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing at Kosovo. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you..

Note: as of 19:37, 2 May 2008 you have already violated 3RR. Your justification that "Starting a Talk Page section IS NOT CONSENSUS" does not wash as the other participant is at least making an attempt at discussion, which you choosing to ignore. Consensus is achieved through discussion. No other way. Given that you have already violated 3RR, you may consider this your last warning. -- Fullstop (talk) 21:43, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Fullstop, as you say consensus is reached through discussion. I offered to discuss them with him, and went as far as to create a talk section. See his talk page. After he posted his own section, after I had made one in the Talk Page to get a discussion started, he immediately made the edits again. How was consensus reached? You say I ignored discussion, yet I tried to start it. You say consensus is reached through discussion. Which is what I was trying to enforce. He wouldn't have the discussion, he made the edits prior to, and without discussion. And, as you yourself point out so kindly, without discussion there is no consensus.

The edits he was making went against a previous consensus. By going against consensus, and refusing to reach a NEW consensus via conversation, his edits should be reverted. After the first revert, I pleaded with him to have a discussion. I begged him to reach consensus. As you point out in the last reversion I made, I said starting a talk page section is not consensus. There was no discussion, let alone consensus. The edits he was making went against a previous consensus.

You say I ignored his attempt at discussion. That's false. I tried hardest for discussion. I informed him the edits he was making were breaking consensus. I asked him to have a discussion so that we could form a new consensus. I did everything right as per WP:CONSENSUS. I do not see how you dare to say I ignored any attempt at consensus. I was one of the many participants to the consensus that was achieved through discussion that resulted in the decision that Pristina was the correct English way of stating Pris^tina/Prishtina. Please note the top of the Edit Page for the article of Kosovo.

This consensus, which even lead to that warning on the edit page, was reached through discussion. Markelug was making edits that went against a consensus. I asked him to please discuss them first. Discussion leads to consensus. He refused, continuing to break an existing consensus while refusing to let a discussion happen. With these facts I asked him repeatedly NOT TO EDIT WAR. He chose to continue his consensus breaking edits while refusing to have a discussion to reach a new consensus. Please review the facts of this again, I look forward to your response Fullstop. Beam 01:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC) It may also be of some note to you that markel may have fought against the last consensus reached regarding Pristina, and it may be a reason why he made this changes. I'm not sure about that though. And I didn't mean to come off combative, but it's insulting to say I wasn't following the Misplaced Pages way. I strive for NPOV and Cooperation. As I stated on his talk page, I always try to adhere to WP:AGF, and have fought hard for neutrality and consensus for months on this Kosovo article. So when you give me a "last warning", it's pretty hurtful. I respectfully await your response with bated breath. Beam 01:54, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, I have just learned that I am blocked from Misplaced Pages? I implore you to remove this block after you investigate the facts that I have posted above. This is devastating. I was defending that article that I love and I'm blocked? Contact administrator User:Dbachman, talk to User:BalkanFever, User:Jonathanmills, User:Bože pravde, and User:Cradel. They will all attest to my unwaievering dedication to WP:CONSENSUS, and WP:NPOV on the Kosovo article.

From my very talk page, User_talk:Beamathan#Recommendation, respected editor User:BalkanFever says: What I can say is that Beam is definitely a worthwhile contributor, and seems to always put neutrality first.

I have NEVER, EVER, gone against discussion, consensus, or NPOV. NOT ONCE! Look at the talk page section above. He wanted to make an addition to the article. I reverted, than went to his talk page and advised him to start a discussion to reach consensus. I am all about consensus and NPOV. Please review and respond sir, this is horrible. Beam 02:11, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

To clarify: You were blocked for edit warring, not for your 3RR violation.

Edit warring is contrary to the principles of cooperation that Misplaced Pages is built on, and is never justifiable, regardless of whether you feel you are in the right or not.

Further, all Kosovo-related articles are under ArbCom probation. This means that edit warring and other policy violations will be harshly dealt with.

Finally, consensus is not what you or anyone else can reach alone, or with what you might consider to be a majority opinion. Even minority opinions typically reflect genuine concerns, and these should be taken into consideration, and not just rejected out of hand. Thus, in practice 'consensus' means agreement (even it is only to agree to disagree, i.e. a demonstration of respect), and an application of force, which is what one does when waging a war, is obviously not going to help achieve or maintain consensus. Also, consensus can and does change, so even when you have consensus on one day, this is not necessarily still valid on the next day.

The bottom line is please don't fight. It doesn't help the encyclopedia, and that must always be every editor's first priority. -- Fullstop (talk) 03:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

You STILL HAVEN'T READ WHAT I SAID. He was BREACHING CONSENSUS. I tried to have him try to reach a new consensus. I'm BAFFLED by what you are saying? Did you not read what happened? Do you not realize that he was breaking consensus? And that I was defending consensus, while trying to get him to start a new discussion?

What are you talking about Fullstop? Beam 04:00, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I have read what you said here and on the Kosovo talk page, and frankly, everything Fullstop touched upon is what I was going to tell you anyways. There are editing restrictions on Kosovo to a harsher degree than other articles because of the ArbCom case. Plus, if those users are really trying to establish consensus or have your consensus, they should have been reverting either with you or done the blocking themselves. But they didn't. Anyways, stop fighting, acknowledge this block and start discussing. User:Zscout370 08:10, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I also got your email, let's continue there. User:Zscout370 08:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the Barnstar, Beam. I know we've got off on a bumpy start, but I can reciprocate and say that you're contribution to the Kosovo discussion has been very useful over the past weeks. Do keep it up! Regarding your "hating" me at first: I do recommend you avoid at any cost getting emotional about other editors. WP:DENY says, don't get worked up about trouble-makers, it only encourages them. Treat them as a technical problem and route around them. It's ok to feel annoyed when you feel Misplaced Pages is being disrupted, but do not allow this to develop into a feeling of personal animosity. It's ok to feel mild contempt, though, with all the stupidity abounding on Misplaced Pages, any sane editor will harbour such feelings from time to time. dab (𒁳) 06:59, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

ah yes, and I feel sorry about your 24h block. I guess it was sort of justified due to the article probation, but I don't think you've done anything wrong. You just shouldn't have taken it upon yourself to revert unilaterally: the great thing about any consensus version is that there will be numerous people defending it. You could just have waited for a couple of minutes, and somebody else would have joined in. --dab (𒁳) 07:01, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

"Hate" really means "disagreed with", lol. Even when we weren't on the same side of an issue you still stuck with Consensus and NPOV. If we hadn't disagreed than I wouldn't be sure that you were all about neutrality and gaining a consensus. I was a jerk about it then too, but you stayed calm and forced Misplaced Pages's policies. And that led to me becoming a better editor. So, thank you.

And no worries about the block. As long as the people who actually contribute know what happened, I don't care. Beam 17:11, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Topic banned

For continued and sustained disruption on Kosovo-related articles during the past month or so, you are now banned from all Kosovo-related articles for 14 days. This ban extends to any talk pages of any major Kosovo-related talk page or user talk pages where incivility is displayed, especially Talk:Kosovo and User talk:Husond. If you breach this ban by making edits in these areas, you could face a block of an then-to-be determined length, or renewed sanctions. You are however, free to make edits anywhere else on Misplaced Pages. Some comments that have been used to provide a basis for this block are: (1, 2, 3 and 4). This topic-ban has been logged at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia‎. Rudget (Help?) 14:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Where is Disruption defined as defending Consensus and NPOV??? Do you have some special definition of disruption? I missed that definition, but if you can show me that than I'd agree with my "topic ban." If not, than I'm very sorry to see such a ban occur, and even more sorry to see people like you enforce it. I'd laugh if this wasn't retarded. What a joke! Beam 17:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I was going to reduce the topic ban for 7 days starting after 14:28, 5 May 3008 (UTC) (the timestamp above), especially after some constructive contributions, here for example, however, this is particularly worrying and the sanction remains in place (considering that the ANI thread didn't gain the attention I thought it may have). Rudget (Help?) 15:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Could you provide a link to the ANI thread, please? Rudget (Help?) 15:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure hold on a second. Beam 15:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

(undent) Honestly man, I'm no bad guy. I really do contribute and such. And me and Balkans didn't start off as friends, but eventually through WP:AGF we found out that we were both just trying to help and for the last 2 months we've been cool. Beam 15:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't wish to seem like I'm too involved with Husond already, but I'll ask him for his opinion. Rudget (Help?) 15:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

But that's the problem. That's why you went to ANI. Because taking the word of someone who, according to Dab and msyelf, has bitten me, isn't right. But ok man, you do your thing. Beam 15:36, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand your concerns. But, if I reduce this without the input of Husond it'd be without due consideration. Rudget (Help?) 15:46, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

But inducing it in the first place with his input was wrong to begin with! But fine, I don't want you to have to put up with his complaints, so do what you have to do. Beam 16:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

(undentified)

Please let me clarify that last statement, it's not an attack towards Husond or an insult towards your adminship (or his for that matter). You banned me with what, at first glance, looks like good reasons, nicely packaged and sourced in wiki style. You got these reasons from an Admin you respect or at the least work with, a coworker. I have no problem with any of that, and it is Husond's right to complain.

My main problem is that Husond is an involved party to many of his "reasons." In Misplaced Pages I've noticed that administrators usually do not ban someone they are involved with at an article. He contacted you, and without thoroughly investigating further than reading the nicely layed out excerpts prepared by a an involved party, you banned me for 14 days from the topic.

That's not right. Then after I realize this has happened, I immediately contacted you as did an administrator, who actually is familiar with the article, and is even less involved than Husond. He points out that Husond may have bitten me, since he is such an experienced wiki user, and I am not. I am new, and after it was pointed out, I realized that I was "set up" in a lot of instances. As an example: please read this section from the Kosovo Talk Page. Stuff like that, trying to get a reaction out of me, is pretty vicious and against the spirit expressed by WP:BITE. Does this excuse my behavior? Not at all. As BalkanFever points out I probably was pushing WP:COOL.

I really don't want to spend much more effort here, but you rightly went to ANI, and the two people who did respond, that weren't you, me or Husond, agree that I have been a good contributing editor exhibiting positive influence upon the article and that I should not be topic banned. I don't want you to take offense but I think this should have been brought to ANI before a ban. Or at least more investigation prior. In thise case banishment from a topic is warranted, and I don't think Husond should have to agree to me being unbanned. I tire from defending myself but I do want to work on the Kosovo article which I have never wrongly disrupted. I would like to be unbanned. Beam 19:25, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Response

I'm going to get some flack for this, but here goes. From what I can see, you are clearly a dedicated editor who has been here for a little near 2 months now, and you are probably not that familiar with the policies of Misplaced Pages, despite a multitude of warnings from above quoting relevant policies and guidelines which are aimed to prevent any sort of disruptive behaviour and ensure that all editors are able to work in a collegial environment in which contributions are constructive to the 'furtherment' of an article. I read a very good piece of advice the other day, and hopefully it can apply to your situation in particular.

I think it's generally true that any contribution to Misplaced Pages indicates that the person has a desire to contribute something, even if it's absolutely not useful in the slightest.

Now whether that could be seen as some elusive ideal by an editor could be debated, but since I am the initiator of the topic ban, then I will apply it here appropriately. As you know Husond did notify me of the events that were occuring as a result of your conduct (especially on Talk:Kosovo) and I must admit a few diffs that were presented as evidence (in colloboration with I few I looked at aswell) were damning and did seem to conclude that you were in fact 'disrupting' the talk page with either 'unhelpful' or otherwise inappropriate comments. (I think now would also be a time to mention that I did not take Husond's evidence at face value, I did, as I say, look further, hence some diffs in the topic ban implementation were different to those given by Husond). However, I do see an editor in there who is willing to contribute, and whether or not that is debatable or not, should be taken into account. An example where you have sought help is here which impressed me somewhat. I don't want any further contact between you and Husond, since it is clear it could become heated in the future. I hold equal respect for both of you and I acknowledge both arguments, and I appreciate BalkanFever (talk · contribs) coming to my talk page briefly explaining the rationale behind an edit you made to their respective talk page. Note that I will be reviewing your case constantly and you are not off the hook. If I see any conduct here or anywhere else that is severly inappropriate, then renewed sanctions and/or blocks may be to follow.

The situation. Kosovo (and the Balkans in general) are very-hot topics, and conversation can quickly become heated, we as administrators have a responsibility to make sure that we nip 'bad-blood' before it can develop into something that drives even more people away. Topic banning in general is to provide all contributors with an equal chance to discuss how an article may be modified, by removing users who are either disruptive or messing around intentionally. I would like to remind you that now you have had warning and community feedback on your actions so far, that your behaviour must not violate any policies here on Misplaced Pages: namely not to make any personal attacks, or to impose restrictions on other users contributions, to remain civil during discussion, make sure all contributions don't come from specifically your point of view and represent interests of the article, assuming good faith (for example when someone makes a mistake, it's not always intentional) and not to revert anyone else's changes on more than three occasions. You know all this so far, and I am willing to give you a second chance. Don't let me down. Topic ban reduced to 7 days (effective of 14:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)) hence otherwise it will expire at 14:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC). Sincere regards, Rudget (Help?) 11:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, you went above and beyond what you had to in this case. Very appreciated. Beam 14:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

You seem to be doing well. Thank you for proving that I can trust you. Rudget (Help?) 18:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Your trust is well placed, rest assured. Me and Husond are actually working together on the Burma article regarding a Disputed Title Tag. So I don't see any problems occurring between us any time soon, and I will work hard to make sure you don't have to hear any bitching or complaining regarding me. I truly do appreciate your effort in resolving the topic ban. Other admins might have refused to do what you did. So thanks again. Beam 18:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Israel article

Hello Beam, I am happy to work with you and others on the Israel article. I would suggest that you could try to qualify how people you disagree with do not conform to guidelines and that you contribute to propose new wording based on sources and guidelines. I hope you don't mind my unsolicited suggestion. Keep up the good work! Winetype (talk) 20:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

actions of the controlled territories

Hello, in your edit, what did you mean by "actions of the controlled territories"? thanks, Imad marie (talk) 19:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Re:Burma article

Kindly do not insert undue "edit-war warnings" in user talkpages, especially on issues in which you are directly involved in.--Huaiwei (talk) 02:41, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I think everyone should be reminded of the 3RR rule. I, myself, have had trouble with it in the past. Beam 12:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Well that is good to know, considering how you appear willing to revert even prior to concensus making. I hope your "reminder" is done in good faith, and in good faith alone.--Huaiwei (talk) 14:12, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Well denying that consensus is present, and has been present isn't really an option for me. As Husond points out, the tag is simply a sour grapes action by those who were against the move. I think it's NPOV to NOT have the tag, and POV Pushing to have it. Also, I'm weary of your tone regarding my good faith. Maybe you should review Misplaced Pages's Good Faith policy. Beam 14:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Re. Burma dispute tag

Sorry Beam, apparently I didn't notice your report yesterday on my talk page about Huaiwei transgressing WP:3RR. He did in fact violate the rule and a block was in order. However, since it has been many hours now since the transgression, I won't issue a block. Besides, he seems to have stopped warring, at least for the moment. I will pay attention to further transgressions. Thank you. Regards, Húsönd 15:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I spoke with him, all appears well. No block in order. Beam 18:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo

Beam, edit summaries such as this will bring back your probation. Please observe WP:CIVIL at all times. Thank you. Regards, Húsönd 02:56, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

What the heck are you talking about? I really DO NOT appreciate you threatening me. I am being CIVIL. He has made those edits repeatedly, I am not the only one who reverts them. So run along and go talk to him, I'm taking the correct action. It's bullshit to threaten me when I am being Civil. I'm not reverting him without an explanation, I'm not going to his talk page and telling him to stop and that he sucks. I'm simply letting him know that his constant POV edits, that have no consensus and in fact have been agreed upon not to be included will not be tolerated.

I want an apology. And if you won't apologize for threatening me improperly, than I just want you to agree not to do it again. I'm willing to work with you, see Burma article, but I'm not willing to let you try to intimidate me and hold a topic ban over my head that I didn't deserve in the first place. I won't let you ruin my Misplaced Pages experience with this type of action, please cease and desist and apologize. Beam 03:01, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Beamathan, for your flagrant inability to comply with WP:CIVIL, I have reinstated your topic ban on Kosovo-related articles as per the Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia for 15 days. You are also placed on indefinite civility supervision, meaning that you may be promptly blocked if you transgress WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. I therefore recommend that you read those two policies carefully and engage in a peaceful conduct henceforth. Thank you. Regards, Húsönd 12:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

What? Show me where I broke WP:Civil! Show me once! Your sick bias against me is really disgusting. I can't even believe you'd do this. After all that with Rudget, after all that you still act like this? Who do I have to talk to have your adminship removed? You're raping me and enjoying it. lol unbelievable. Beam 13:54, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Beamathan, you have been blocked 48 hours for your continued incivility and threats. Húsönd 14:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I have not threatened once. Please stop lying. I get it, you don't like me, that's fine. You shouldn't have this power if you continue to abuse it. It's disgusting. Beam 00:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

A Plea

Rudget, or any admin: Please prevent Husond from taking any action against me. He is a biased party when it comes to me. I would like to insist that Husond is not allowed to act against me. It's stupid. To have a party to a dispute (the only party IMO), decide the fate of that dispute (me), is against Misplaced Pages.

Someone needs to put a stop to it. Unfortunately his illfated admin powers have given him power over me. Stop it, please. Beam 23:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Anyone? Husond's ban still stands. I have not broken civlity, and I did not threaten anyone. Are there any admins out there that can fix this? Hello? I can't even edit other pages to get help, what an efficient manner of harming me. Congratulations husond, you got me good. Enjoy it while it lasts. Beam 02:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm replying here soon. Rudget (Help?) 16:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I am, to say the least, disappointed that editing from this account, and in view that you worked with others, had culminated in a block. I know that Husond and you, Beamathan, have contentious relations right now and I do realise that both of are probably getting under each others skin. This whole situation has "interfered with the process of editors working together harmoniously to create an encyclopedia", which is the primary purpose of why we are here in the first place, which although may be cliche number one, is true. I am growing tired of having to deal with both the blocks, topic bans and comments that are coming about as a direct result of just that. I am contemplating lifting the indefinite topic ban implemented by Husond at ANI per here, as he should have discussed this block with me or another administrator prior to the sanction. Regards, Rudget (Help?) 16:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Now commenting on WP:ANI. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:56, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Topic ban lifted

I am now lifting the topic ban against you, as per the discussion thread on WP:ANI. For form's sake, I'll also declare the "civility supervision" lifted, although I'd recommend you should not rely too heavily on that, as it's sort of in the nature of things that there'll be a few more eyes on you during the next weeks than usual, in effect "supervising" you. I trust you'll try to keep your temper under control. I will put on record that I would consider it inappropriate for User:Husond to directly take any further admin actions against you in the near future. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I won't be holding my breath for that apology you suggested though, ;) . Honestly, I don't mind the extra eyes on me, I have nothing to hide. Husond has destroyed my reputation the last few weeks, which sucks. The more eyes on me, the more of a chance that it can be repaired. Beam 12:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I am glad now things have calmed down somewhat in the past couple of days, but I really wish not to be seen as standing up for anyone. I try to convey an impartial view of situations, something I hopefully did here also. I am sure that Husond does respect you at least a little, and labelling each other different names et cetera et cetera doesn't help. I am starting to like your approach and outlook for the future and whether or not what conduct you have will affect your future. All too often we have users who disregard the community's opinion and act upon their initial thoughts whilst neglecting what the potential magnitude of their actions might be. You, as far as I am aware, don't do that. If I were you I'd do two things:

• • a) Just don't interact with Husond at all, ever. He is actually a nice person, he just misjudged you and acted upon that. We all make mistakes, and I am sure you can forgive him somehow.
  • b) If you are thinking about any candidacy within the near future, always represent both sides in a comment regarding your past. It would unfair and unnecessary to only show just our own opinions.

I have in this case come to have plenty of experience with you and Husond, and gotten to know both of you further; both for the better. If we can somehow utilise that knowledge in the future hopefully we can avert any use of the self-destruct button. Rudget (Help?) 15:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Here you go

Your latest one was the clincher. I even compromised my beloved Australian English for this :D BalkanFever 11:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

.

Reply

And reading from your user page that you contribute to MLB:

Please accept this invite to join the Red Sox WikiProject, a WikiProject dedicated to improving all articles associated with the Boston Red Sox. Simply click here to accept!

--RyRy5 (talk) 02:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, and welcome to the Red Sox WikiProject! We are a group of (mainly) Red Sox fans who help to improve coverage related to the Boston Red Sox on Misplaced Pages.

Looking for somewhere to start? Here are a few suggestions.

• You can check out topics on the main page.
• You can add {{WikiProject Boston Red Sox}} to talk pages of Boston Red Sox-related articles, and assess them as well.
• Check out the to do list for the WikiProject, and opt to try and complete some of those tasks.

If you have any comments, suggestions, or would like to talk about the project in general, feel free to leave a message on the talk page.

Also, there's a useful page located at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Boston Red Sox/Articles. --RyRy5 (talk) 02:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Ahl al-Bayt

I'm gonna mark it all up first, give it a little bit, and try and look up a few easy-to-find resources first (encyclopedia of Iran, Britannica, etc.) and then delete anything even remotely dubious. Peter Deer (talk) 05:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Just a page you might find interesting

WP:AAGF. Somedumbyankee (talk) 17:46, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I guess you could accuse me of not WP:AAAGF, but citing AGF generally means you aren't. Go ahead and trout me if I'm being silly.Somedumbyankee (talk) 03:14, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Consider yourself trouted. Beam 04:36, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Re:

The Simple English Misplaced Pages is a place where you can write articles in Simple English. Feel free to drop by. Cheers, Razorflame 03:10, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Peacekeeping

Thanks for contacting me. I started planning a rewrite of the article some time ago, but have never had the opportunity to do more. Feel free to do what you want with it. --Tjss(Talk) 19:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Rv back

I just reverted it back the way it was.

It's the standard term for that territory, and that way all controversies on Kosovo could easily be evaded as well. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 14:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

It's just a political division, established in 1945:

Kosovo(-Metohija or not)

Central Serbia

Vojvodina

Some also divide the City of Belgrade itself for its hugeness and importance as a forth entity (and because it has autonomy, unlike any other District). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Re:RfA

Goodness, no, I wouldn't consider you a jerk. ;) You have a a right to express your opinion - I just happen to somewhat disagree with it. The thing is, what I consider most damaging to a new user's morale (at least for me it was, way back in late 2006, I believe) is to be slighted by another editor, not to have their article deleted. Being blocked, true, would be a major factor, but I feel that being slighted by a non-admin who told you something like "It was a lousy article. Get over it." might be even worse. Another point on which I differ with you is whether DHMO would be "mistaken". I do believe that DHMO would try to be as careful as he could with his admin tools.

Anyways, no hard feelings! You have every right to your oppose! Nousernamesleft 01:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hm, I've read the entire RfA too - multiple times - and have come to a radically different conclusion. Though much of the support, I'm afraid to say, doesn't seem to consider concerns, many of the supports just as thoughtful as the opposes, perhaps more so - see Rudget's, and mine. Ask yourself this: would you withdraw this RfA right now, in DHMO's shoes? Be honest with yourself - no need to tell me. It's completely normal to not want to withdraw a RfA which is succeeding. As for the impatience thing, DHMO addressed this in one of the questions. I, for one, will believe his explanation. It's your choice whether to believe him or not. I personally see absolutely no sign of power hunger (though perhaps a tad bit of impatience) - really, what is there to be hungry for?

Anyhow, perhaps admins do have more power to stress editors - I concede that. I, however, remain convinced DHMO will not do so. Nousernamesleft 01:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Let's take a case example that's more recent, and therefore would be more representative of his actions if his RfA is successful: The CWii blog posting. Here, DHMO, instead of taking it to ANI or in any way trying to get CWii reprimanded onwiki, manages at least to vent it on his blog. Admittedly, venting at all was a very bad move, but the fact that he had the control necessary not to do it onwiki is a plus. He also privately (via Misplaced Pages email) reconciled with CWii later to an extent that the latter is now supporting DHMO's RfA. You could say that this whole incident is evidence of impulsive behavior - that's somewhat true. But I believe that with his admin tools, in a moment of impulsiveness, DHMO would not block, but instead "vent" about it somewhere - for example, ask on ANI. That's not even considering the myriad of comments by others during this RfA for DHMO to take his admin tools slowly should he get them - those are sure to affect his actions a great deal. Nousernamesleft 01:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Erm, I'm not sure I understood your last comment. Nousernamesleft 01:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll wait for you to discuss it with him. Nousernamesleft 02:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Admin abuse

I've read your comments at my RfA with interest. You've said numerous times that you almost left the project because of an abusive admin. Without doubting what you say, could you point me to where this happened... I take this sort of thing seriously and would be interested to see the events that almost led up to your leaving. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 01:21, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm weary of saying "abusive." In fact, if good faith is to be followed, he may have even thought he was right. That's the thing: it doesn't take purposeful abuse. With your history of bad decisions and spontaneous outbursts I fear nothing more than someone being discouraged. And no longer would it be simple reversions, or an off wiki blog, or an edit summary... it would be a block and block summary. Anyway, if you must check out my talk page, rudget's talk page, dbachman's talk page, and future perfect's talk page. I don't feel right touting this specific case as it's not necessary to support my concerns regarding your maturity. And as a result of this specific case I gave my word not to agitate this admin, and I feel that I'm pushing it by even mentioning his name (which I haven't.) But Rudget, and FuturePerfect, along with Dbachman having my back, saved me (twice).

I really can't understand why you can't withdraw and wait 2 months. How does that hurt you? Are you that greedy for this power? I want to AGF but it doesn't make much sense. Beam 01:25, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. I looked over the page a bit more and saw what happened... don't want to comment on that other than to say that overall, you seem like a good editor, so I'm glad you're still around.

To answer your question... waiting two months would give the impression of even more power hunger! ;-) If I was to wait, say, 6 months, I get the feeling that at least some of the opposition that came to this RfA would turn up again. The drama would take place again. If I pass now I'll take it slow—everyone has my promise that I have the best interests of the encyclopedia at heart—it's what they make of that promise that differs. If I'm unsuccessful now I don't know if I'll run again... at this stage, I doubt it. Looking at the blocks/topic bans/etc. that happened to you, I think I know how you feel—what I've copped in the last few days, onwiki but especially offwiki, has really been tough. There's a few days left, I'd much rather just have them go as smoothly as possible, and see how it ends. It's up to the community. (I also said a bit about this yesterday on the RfA talk page; I'm not sure if you noticed and apologise if you did and this seems condescending.) dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 01:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

DihOxy Rfa

No Beam, definitely not an asshole. Some people are just born to tell it like it is (thank goodness for that) and you're definitely one of those people! I agree with your points about admins being a big deal and that it is important to select admins with care. But, in this case, I think you're getting swayed by the messiness of the Rfa itself. My way of looking at this is quite different. If you ignore the rfa and focus on his editing and talk page history, you find a person who is not only fairly rational, but also continuously seems to think about being rational. That is a huge plus in an admin. Second, if you look at the opposes and supports, you find that many notable wikipedians are on both sides. This is another plus because it shows that he is not the usual rfa type person and will likely bring a different flavor to adminship. The rfas that one should be concerned about are the ones that pass overwhelmingly with little or no opposition. Third, the oppose reasons are not really good reasons (purely IMHO of course) to oppose the rfa. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be an admin and wanting it badly because that is one of the few rewards that wikipedia has to offer a dedicated editor. Not being critical enough in the FA or GA process (or too eager to approve an article) is hardly a negative (IMHO again) because, in one sense, it shows a person eager to see more content on wikipedia which is definitely a good thing. Not everyone needs to be a quality maven and an admin certainly need not be one. The stuff about white pride etc is quite meaningless (with AGF I assume that little or nothing of that translates into action) and, even if it is more than just an attitude, it is far better to know where an admin comes from than not know (a truly hungry admin like person would hide any personal information that could be used against him or her). The only thing that is troubling is the blog and, I think, one will rightly be curious whether his admin actions will be colored by how they would end up looking on the blog. However, once again, everyone knows about it and there are sufficient checks and balances that, if there are any issues, they will be discussed ad nauseam on the admin noticeboards. I'm not concerned and (I did look up your history a bit) I think you'll find this user to be on the upper quartile of reasonable admins as well. --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 02:14, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

No worries. If nothing else, this is one interesting Rfa! Quite a change from the usual stuff.--Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 02:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Please

I don't mean to be harsh or uncivil or whatever you want to call it, but please, shut up.

I didn't withdraw because you told me to. If anything, I deliberately held off withdrawing, despite being semi-aware of what was going to come, because of your comments.

It was the fact that the RfA was passing, despite east718's (completely justified) oppose, that made me withdraw. Not you.

Sorry. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 23:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

What? Withdrawing was fucking awesome man, I support you no matter what happens now. It was the right thing to do, and it took a lot of selflessness to do this! Congrats on making a good move and you have my support no matter what in the future! (posted in his talk page as well)Beam 23:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Showing Love

What's up Beam. The name is Kosova2008 and I am not sure why you insist on calling me "Kosovo '08" but I have been around. I have been checking on discussions on daily basis but I wanted to keep a distance because people were accusing me that because my name implies that I'm only here for one issue, and that I am biased. The reason why I joined wikipedia is because I was inspired by recent events in Rep. of Kosova, my only biasness comes towards Serbian users who blurt out propaganda such as Kosova is Serbian etc etc. Nonetheless I am going to bring sources in the Kosova or Kosovo article...but I am no good at editing so you or others will have to edit the article. Kosova2008 69.29.70.177 (talk) 03:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo subpage

It is clearly marked as an archive at the top, and thus does not need an archive box. it is, as a page, archived, not a single section archived. It falls to those editing first to read through things; you did not. I reverted it out, and gave the explanation in the edit summary. ThuranX (talk) 02:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

You can take my tone however you want. The fact is, it is clearly marked as an archive. There was a problem with an admin deleting numerous subpages which became orphaned when the main articles were moved. His actions were reversed a couple days later. That page was thus restored, though it was already archived. It's not that complicated. ThuranX (talk) 02:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't see a link to that talk page in your note to me. Also, the value of blunt, honest speech is greater than the value of dissembling to 'save face'. Blunt speech makes plain the problems, hiding behind fancy language hides the problems. ThuranX (talk) 01:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Gandhi

Three reasons. One, it is an honorific that is not necessary. Two, the most common English name for MG is Gandhi, not Mahatma Gandhi and it doesn't make sense to call the article that. Three, I think it more appropriate - Gandhi would approve of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi rather than Mahatma Gandhi. --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 15:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I did check and Misplaced Pages is fairly consistent in not using honorifics. For example, Saint Francis of Assisi is just Francis of Assisi. Alex the great is an exception and I'm curious as to why that is so. --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 15:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, so is Saint Francis of Assisi the most common way of calling the man but the Saint is dropped in the article title. There seems to be an inconsistency here with Alexander the great (rather than with Gandhi).--Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 16:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Trust me. Everyone calls him Saint Francis of Assisi! Still, with the Alexander the Great article there does seem to be room to discuss Mahatma Gandhi as well. With Mother Teresa, on the other hand, there is no alternative name. --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 16:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Beam, the reason why the Alexander the Great article uses the honorific is less to do with disambiguation and more to do with a tussle between Greeks and Macedonians. (I did a polite check.) The use of 'the Great' turns out to be the NPOV solution. (This is FYI.) --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 10:45, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

lol! (It's the best thing to do. The article has his full name in the title so there's nothing wrong with that. Best to move on, IMHO.)--Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 15:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

What I meant to say is that the title is an acceptable one and satisfies most wikipedia criteria for naming. Unlike in the Myanmar/Burma case, the name of the person has an intrinsic legitimacy as a title and it is hard to argue that it should be replaced by something else. Whether Mahtama is better or worse is a different issue (I think not but the case for that is not without merit) but is it worth fighting this fight? --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 16:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey Beam, that stuff was ages ago, and might me a little hard to source. I'll try nonetheless. Here are some links that might interest you:

• The Essential Gandhi by Louis Fischer
• Official website of the Mahatma Gandhi University
• The Day Gandhi Become Mahatma
• Source site of the above - Amog | 07:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo

You do know that I stay away from all Kosovo-related pages as much as that's possible? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

You must have gone totally mad. ;D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I am entitled to warn you that between 10% and 20% of foreigners that become involved with the Balkans commit suicide and between 40% and 60% have serious difficulties of returning to normal social life...these days. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:37, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

"Europe Has No Alternative", UNHCR and countless NGOs.

Joking aside (although to the up is indeed the truth), as a Balkaner, it is morally to inform you that this is the hell of Europe.

There is almost no crime here (last week's UN report claims the Balkans are the safest part of Europe, with least crime), in here people commit crime in the name of history, illusion and ethnicity (and idiosyncrasy too, I guess). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Gandhi comments

Just to be clear, I do not think you are acting in bad faith and that what we have is an honest disagreement. Your refusal to engage in more than surface level discussion on fowler's more detailed analysis or explain how you reconcile certain contradictions in naming on wikipedia lead me to believe you have an agenda. If I am wrong, my apologies, but I feel that is a fair position for me to take under the circumstances. I have not, nor do I plan to engage in personal attacks in the matter under discussion on the talk page, and my comment on fowler's user page was merely a personal appraisal of the situation that I do not consider relevant to the debate itself, which is why you do not see it on the Gandhi talk page. Indrian (talk) 17:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Capital of Israel

How can you say it's not disputed when no country in the world recognizes it? At the very least it's "not recognized" but that keeps being removed as well. To state that Jerusalem is the capital without any qualification is biased and pushes Israel's point of view. Strongbrow (talk) 03:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Because no one can dispute it! By definition of the word Jerusalem is the capital. Beam 03:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

By Israel's definition but not by anyone else's. Every reference book I can find disagrees with your opinion at least when it comes to listing a capital that isn't recognized internationally. See this entry in Britannica for instance. You're expressing a point of view and that's very nice and all that but your point of view isn't a fact. Strongbrow (talk) 03:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

But when it comes to a capital other countries don't have to recognize it. Beam 03:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh and even that britannica article states "Jerusalem is the capital and the seat of government." So yeah.... :) Beam 03:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, what it says is "Capital (proclaimed): Jerusalem; international recognition of its capital status has largely been withheld" so there is a qualification there. Strongbrow (talk) 03:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The quote I took is exact, it's from the first or second paragraph. It has no qualifiers. And in our infobox the Capital means just that "The seat of government." Which is indisputably Jerusalem as that is where the Israeli government has placed it. Beam 03:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The quote I took is exact as well, and it does have qualifications so obviously, if you put your quote in context of the rest of the article there is a qualification. Strongbrow (talk) 03:38, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

As I said, the infobox in the Misplaced Pages Article is simply stating it's the seat of government, while the intentions of the Britannica article's section that you quote is unknown. Especially since within the first paragraph that article states what we state in our infobox. Beam 04:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Is there a reason why we shouldn't be comparing wikipedia's infobox to Britannica's? Strongbrow (talk) 04:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Most definitely. Misplaced Pages isn't a normal encyclopedia. It's this awesome wikipedia created by the people! Check out my userpage for why I joined Misplaced Pages, which is basically why Misplaced Pages is what it is! Beam 04:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Strange! In this case we do not need any recognition but we do need recognitions in Kosovo's case. Where is the logic?? or are we witnesses to what is called opportunism. Just wondering... --Noah30 (talk) 15:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

It's in regards to the capital, not the country itself! Beam 15:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!

Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Beamathan! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. Daniel (talk) 06:05, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Beam 10:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Canvassing

Perhaps you didn't intend it this way, but your comment at User talk:DeLarge/Top 10 best selling cars in Britain gave the impression that you were willing to start canvassing for support of this article. Please be aware that all canvassing is prohibited on Misplaced Pages. 08:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Fram (talk) 11:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

What? Sign your name next time. Stand by your accusations. Beam 10:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I have now signed correctly (used one tilde too many). You could have seen my name in the history of this page though, it's not as if I was hiding myself... Fram (talk) 11:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Well Fram, I'd be happy to tell you (if you had asked instead of accused) that I was simply letting him know that he could ask me to represent my self and my opinion any time if he was in need of support. I don't really appreciate your accusations, if you can't tell. Thanks for coming by though, and hopefully it will be something nicer next time I run into you. Beam 12:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

You literally said that you would help him garnering support if he wanted it: "let me know if you need help garnering support for its inclusion.". Not "if you need support", but "if you need help garnering support". This is a statement that, if it is not an intention of canvassing, could very easily be mistaken for one. But I specifically left open the possibility that it was not your intention in my post here. No need to get all defensive about it... Fram (talk) 08:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Few Words

We have had our differences in the past and we still have them. Is there any chance that you will be a man and stop posting pro-Serbian comments? It was insulting when I read your comment "legally resolution 1244 says that kosovo is part of serbia", it may sound funny or cute but to me personally that's an insult; it brings me back memories when the Serbian police would beat Kosovars for no reason and than the radical serbs would throw the 3 fingers up and shout "kosovo je serbija". I am not asking you to change your stance, opinions, or beliefs, just please refrain from throwing fuel in the fire. The Kosova is an issue that has been engrained in our genes from birth, it is more complicated than life itself and explaining the Balkans is like reinventing the wheel, I doubt you "get it". Anyways, keep being commited to your work on Kosova or Kosovo articles in the road to neutrality but personally do not display biasness. Ari --Kosova2008 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

That's what the resolution says. I'm sorry that your countrymen were beaten, tortured, and basically treated like shit. I really am. However, I am truly neutral. And as Pax explained that's what 1244 says. And let me tell you something else, something separate, as an American I understand what declaring independence is all about, don't think I don't. Beam 12:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Read you message. Waiting for a solution then. --Noah30 (talk) 13:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Your message was archived: http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Noah30/Archive1#Wow. By the way I don't hate you but I disagree with you on many issues. I don't hate anyone in this world. I hope we can overcome our disagreement. --Noah30 (talk) 13:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I just wanted to say that to you its between 2 people but for me my country is a personal issue; I've seen too many of my closest people killed. In America there is this idea of "just forgive them", it's not that easy, forgetting about everything won't bring back the people I love. Anyways, much love, please help me to change the map. And I didn't blame you, I was saying that I think it was you who had your way the last time I tried to change it. Ari, Kosova2008 (talk) 15:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, holding onto hatred or ill-will won't bring those people back either. Beam 15:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo

Ok, feel free to modify my edits. I was a bit surprised that the Racak incident and Rambouillet accords weren't even mentioned there, and it wasn't clarified when the KLA had started fighting, so I decided to be bold. BTW, the article is cluttered with maps, so the "edit" buttons of the first ten subsections have been displaced, which makes the article hard to edit. Is it possible to move most of the images to the left? Colchicum (talk) 16:54, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, yes, I didn't mean anything when I removed the term "ethnic cleansing" and I have no problems with it. Though I am from Russia, I am not pro-Milosevic at all. Moreover, I am very much in favor of Kosovo's independence. I just don't know where to put the term now. Colchicum (talk) 17:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually we can use this article (subscription needed, but the article exists offline, so it is acceptable) as a source whenever needed. It provides a rather neutral, accurate and detailed account of the history of Kosovo in the 1980s-1990s and meets the criteria of WP:RS perfectly. Colchicum (talk) 18:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Great. Thanks. Beam 18:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Map

Why wouldn't you support both maps. The link was working this morning. Ari (talk) 20:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

How long are we going to wait until an admin makes a decision? Is there a time-limit? Ari (talk) 20:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

What? Switch out the maps now. Go for it, with my permission. (not that it means anything but still). The map you're putting in is better than the existing. Once the existing is better labeled we will put that in. Go for it, with my blessings. Beam 22:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

As you suggested

Well since you go about it like that, the USA has a larger army than Russia. So there is no chance of Russia invading the USA. However Russia has more nukes than the USA, so Russia could bomb the shit out of the USA. All down the west, south, eastern coast, a couple on the major cities, a few up in Alaska and one on Hawaii and one on Puerto Rico. Jobs a good one. ;) Ijanderson977 (talk) 22:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I have decided to answer your comment with a source.  ;)

1. Im pisssed Ijanderson977 (talk) 22:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

So you don't get it? Or do you? I'm confused. If you do understand "MAD", than your realize any nuclear attack on the USA will result in that attacking country (or countries) being destroyed. And if a war didn't go nuclear, the USA has the capability to establish naval and air superiority. I don't think we could invade and hold China, but we could certainly cripple it. Russia... the USA might be able to invade Russia, but it hasn't worked in 200 years for anyone else...but the USA has the most powerful military in the history of the world so I don't know. It's 50/50. You shouldn't let your hatred of the USA blind your common sense :). Beam 22:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

We lets agree to disagree. Its not in the US's interests to attack Russia or China and vice versa. If any of these countries went to war, then it would end civilization. They would never use nukes either. They are just there as a threat. No big countries will ever fight each other these days. Them days are over. Nukes would destroy everything. America would not be able to hold Russia, as it can barely hold Iraq. Also Russia would not be able to hold the US either if it invaded. Also i do not hate the US, i just disagree with some of the things it does. Just like i do with my own country. Please to say im foolish for disagreeing with you. Ijanderson977 (talk) 12:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It would be easier to hold Russia than Iraq. Having an actual army to fight is what the USA does best. Beam 12:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree that it is not in the US's best interests to attack Russia or China and vice versa. But from what I have read, I remember that the Chinese nuclear forces are not very modern, reliable and effective and don't represent any serious threat to the US (as of now). Russia has had some increasing problems with reliability of its systems and attack detection too, and, first and foremost, problems in the society and economy, so it is my impression (I am Russian, if that matters) that it will be lucky to survive any global war. Moreover, I doubt that there would be any serious grassroot insurgency in Russia like in Iraq. So yes, it's 50/50. But excuse me for asking, what is this all about? I am a bit confused. Colchicum (talk) 13:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I saw a conversation between IJ and Ari about the USA, how it sucks, can't hold Iraq, and would get beaten by Russia because it has more nuclear weapons than the USA. Etc etc... I had to say something. But it was a cordial discussion, and now I'm happy you hae joined it. :) Beam 14:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

America's Army budget alone is bigger than the next 17 world countries WHOLE budget. The world is covered in US bases that at any moment can attack from a host country...if America wanted they could attack a country without the mainland knowing anything. As far as Iraq America is doing very well...last time I remember that \russia coulnd't even invade Afghanistan. 64.195.0.187 (talk) 16:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

FritzpollBot - reply

(crossposted) The actual proposal has actually achieved consensus as per WP:GEOBOT - perhaps I can answer any questions, or address any comments you may have. Alternatively, the working group is currently working out of User:John_Carter/GEOBOT_group and you can see how things are building up into activity Fritzpoll (talk) 19:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Rollback

Done - only use it to revert obvious vandalism, or it will be removed. Neıl 龱 08:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello Beam

Thank you for the smile. The ability to heal unpleasant disagreements by offering a handshake is extremely rare on human beings, and I deeply appreciate yours. I was surprised. Thank you. :-) Regards, Húsönd 18:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

What??

whats a vandal fighter and why did you contact me for this? Tocino's comments to be deleted since his comments are insulting in nature, i issued him 2 warning but he has turned the talk page into a mockery --- but whose condemning ?? LOL. Kosova2008 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 06:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh no worries I'm no vandal, and I know you weren't referring to me. I issued tocino two warnings to shut up but he won't stop talking, if he keeps going I'm going to delete all his comments. Kosova2008 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Dabs comment was outrageous. I understand that WP is an encyclopedia but there should be no room for mis-information. I will be easy on him but as far as his nPOV I find it hard to believe. I also don't see you as nPOV as well but I am starting to trust you little by little..just please present the Kosovar POV and don't make it as something I'd read from Serbianna.com. Kosova2008 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 02:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Stress

Should we indicate that in Kosovo (in Serbian) the first syllable and in Kosova the second one is stressed? It seems important. I guess many readers mispronounce it now, but I don't know how it should be marked. Colchicum (talk) 15:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC) And the same is true of Prishtina, by the way. Colchicum (talk) 15:20, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

No, I mean this piece: "(Template:Lang-sq; Template:Lang-sr; Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help))" Colchicum (talk) 17:09, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

No, sorry, I just have to think a bit. I don't know much about Kosovo's economy. Colchicum (talk) 21:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I'll think of it. Right now I am going to update lists like Use of capital punishment by nation. Colchicum (talk) 21:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Gandhi and Burma

Gandhi would agree with me on both counts. :-) Just kidding. I'm not against the Mahatma Gandhi name and agree that there is a good case to change the article name. But I do think that Mohandas Gandhi (or Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi) are acceptable alternatives that do not use the honorific (and I don't like honorifics). Also, there are battles and there are wars and, IMHO, there is enough ambiguity with Mahatma Gandhi that it is not a battle worth fighting. --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 20:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

joining the ranks of the admins

Block query

What kind of concerns do you have? The account in question was a blatant username violation and a vandalism-only account. --Bongwarrior (talk) 03:46, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I didn't mean to bother you man, I'm just trying to learn the ropes. I was wondering if it was for the user name or for his vandlism at the Red Sox article. Beam 03:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh and how did you come across this user? Beam 03:53, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

No bother. It was a combination of both. If it was just the vandalism, I'm willing to cut some slack, to see if they'll stop vandalizing on their own after being warned. If it was just a username violation, I'll usually block the username but allow the user to create a new account, unless the username in question shows obvious malicious intent. In this case, the username prompted me to block the account sooner than I normally would. The user was initially brought to my attention because another user reported him at Administrator intervention against vandalism. Take care. --Bongwarrior (talk) 04:02, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Re. you have never been in Turkey

Racist? I thought it was just non-vegetarian. Húsönd 14:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Mwahaha. AND, I come from Alpha Centauri to enslave mankind. I bet you couldn't see that coming. Húsönd 15:00, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

your comments

This made me smile.

Cheers! - Revolving Bugbear 18:30, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I like you

Here now you actually have a new message friend. Lmao.Gears Of War 19:31, 25 June 2008 (UTC) This template must be substituted, see Template:Smile for instructions

Thanks, it was pretty depressing clicking that and not having new messages ;) Beam 19:43, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Kosova is back

I like the heading, and I'm a little drunk, sorry.

The introduction to Prishtina is:

Pristina, also spelled Prishtina or Priština listen (help·info) (Albanian: Prishtinë or Prishtina, Serbian: Приштина, Priština) is the largest city in Kosovo, a territory in the Balkans that is disputed amongst Republic of Kosova and Republic of Serbia following a declaration of independence. It is the administrative center of the homonymous municipality and district

Let's try:

Pristina is the capital of Kosovo, a territory in the Balkans that is disputed amongst Republic of Kosova and Republic of Serbia.

--- Pristina is the capital of Kosovo (the independent republic) or the province of Serbia; there is no arguing about that; I don't think this is POV of me to want "capital" in the introduction. I also want to erase the Alb/Ser because it looks so ugly. The map in that page is just hideous. I know I sound harsh, but I want change, I want these article to improve.

Thanks for reaching to me. -Ari

---Ari d'Kosova (talk) 06:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Re. What's up? I need your help with Misplaced Pages Policy and how to take Action...

Hello Beam. Unless Mahatma Gandhi was unilaterally moved to Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, I believe that only a move proposal listed at WP:RM could eventually bring this article back to Mahatma Gandhi. Although I'm not an expert about Mr. Gandhi, I believe that the most commonly used form of his name in the English language is indeed "Mahatma Gandhi", so your argument is naturally valid. But again, only a move proposal listed at WP:RM could resolve this dispute. As for users being uncivil and throwing personal attacks, the appropriate action is to remind them that such behavior is not tolerated on Misplaced Pages. If a user continues in that manner after several civility warnings, he/she may be reported to an admin and eventually be blocked. I wish I had time to read the discussions going on at the talk page, but unfortunately I'm very busy at this time (I'm moving back to my home country very soon). Anyway I hope this helps. Regards, Húsönd 20:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Gimme an hour or so and I'll be back to this. Regards, Húsönd 21:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Heh, I had to search my talk page for Fowler, I think he contacted me just once. Beam I currently don't have enough time to make a full investigation, but if you could provide some recent diffs of misconduct then that would make it much easier for me to analyze. Also, I could not find the recent move in the article's history. Do you know the exact date when it happened? Thanks. Regards, Húsönd 22:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Beam, the link you provided was to the entire discussion, which I currently lack the time to read thoroughly. Sorry, I will have to get back to this when I get home later this weekend. By the way, since the move was carried out such a long time ago, it sort of settled where it is now due to lack of opposition in all this time. I believe that only a new proposal could eventually get the article moved back. Beam, saying that Fowler was "being an asshole" is also not civil. See if you can find a mutual agreement. If not, I will be available to provide further feedback in a few days. Regards, Húsönd 00:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

For keeping neutrality. There are many probles still awaiting, but I dont know, should I bother you or is it the time, as before any highly POV-ed article there are people who would fight to death for their version.--Dojarca (talk) 12:36, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Any comment on the PPP?

User:Filll/Peaceful Polling Pledge--Filll (talk | wpc) 20:05, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I modified it slightly. Comments?--Filll (talk | wpc)

Ari

Are we going to finalize that map already on Kosova? I want to improve it and I think everyone has agreed that the map being proposed would improve that article but no admin has taken action. On the subject of violence in Kosova in the 20th century (mainly '90s) there was NONE; I was THERE, so I feel like some users are preaching to a choire. Not sure how you spell it. Ari d'Kosova 16:25, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you were everywhere Ari. Anyway, why don't you change the map yourself? Beam 17:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Re.Gandhi

Beam, there is not much support I can provide. As I told you before, the only viable way for this article to return to Mahatma Gandhi would be through a requested move. That would cut a lot of needless discussion (since you don't seem to reach consensus) and would settle once and for all which name does the community find more suitable for that article. Apart from my advice, I can't see what other help may I provide. Regards, Húsönd 21:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Heh, I wish Misplaced Pages policies could dictate who's right that easily. It would save everyone a lot of time. :-) Húsönd 22:05, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Your recent revert

Noooo! You actually reverted an edit to the article. :P I was wrong. Keep up the good work. ;) -- RyRy (talk) 16:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah but I got scared of you and used pop ups. Not a complete victory yet! Beam 16:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Your rename request

You asked a while ago to be renamed to User:Beam (Misplaced Pages:Changing username/Usurpations#Beamathan → Beam). It isn't possible to rename at the moment because you have already unified your login across Wikimedia projects. If you still want to be renamed, you will need to make a request at m:SR/SUL steward to delete your global account. You can then create a new global account once you have been renamed via "my preferences". WjBscribe 01:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Ari/Kosova2008

My intention is not to alienate myself from any user. I know that over the past couple of days, our messages became more vicious though I hope that it will subside now. I'll do my best, that I promise. I don't want people to feel that I am trying to force my views onto anyone. Evlekis (talk) 16:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

No no no no no no no no, that wasn't the agreement. I'll still be a jerk. Once a jerk, always a jerk ;) (just kidding). Evlekis (talk) 17:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment on Evlekis's page, beam. I thought Ari would be easier for people but I guess the k2k8 is stuck. LOL. What's your nickname Beam? Are you always going to go with Beam? better yet how did you come up with "beam"? I saw that you responded in your talk page about the Kosova map I asked a while back, couldn't you reply in my talk page? tsk tsk tsk. Also, no hard feelings with Evlekis, he's a good guy, we just communicated. Ari d'Kosova (talk) 19:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

When I'm typing really fast k2k28 just comes out, but when I'm actually responding to you, usually, Ari would come out. I don't know, I'm retarded, what do you want from me! ;) And yeah sometimes I'd like to keep the conversation on one page, although sometimes I don't. See the previous sentence for reason why. And I definitely support communication, just wish it was a little less "aha, I'm better than you" styled. Of course, I act like that too sometimes, so I'm just hypocritical.... and retarded. Beam 20:29, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I wish you would have replied to my talk-page, I don't stalk others..I had no clue you responded until I looked here because of evlekis. I hope you are liking that new map in Kosova. Ari to me logically would seem Easier to write but you can call me "kay two kay eight" (k2k8) :). You still haven't answered my question(s)..the beam story, this time please reply in my talkpage. Ari d'Kosova (talk) 05:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Burmyanmar

Hello there! The Burmyanmar title naming discussion has been taken to a higher mediation level, found at this page: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_mediation/Burma. You've participated in past discussions on this, so you may care to list yourself as an involved party and say whether you'd agree to the mediation. Take care! -BaronGrackle (talk) 17:56, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Re. Burma Mediation

I explained on the talk page. Mediation would be nothing more than the repetition of previous processes and therefore a waste of time. Positions are irreconcilable, failure is virtually guaranteed. Húsönd 14:51, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I see nothing happening, at least for the moment. It's natural to disagree. Sometimes people talk their disagreements and find common grounds, sometimes they just don't. Forcing an agreement is not a solution. One of the sides will always be unhappy and there's no way to prevent that. Maybe this will eventually reach the Arbcom and that will probably be good, independently of whether the arbs accept or decline the case. But mediation is not the way. Regards, Húsönd 15:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Are you planning to sign an agree yourself, Beam? I was just curious. -BaronGrackle (talk) 13:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Good evening to you as well

I would hope it's the former rather than the latter. I'll make a note of that in the future. Nousernamesleft (talk) 01:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Pump chat

FYI I indented your comment - hope that's ok. John Smith's (talk) 17:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Haha, yes I thought as much. But I didn't want to start a fresh talk page off that way. ;) John Smith's (talk) 17:44, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, no problem. Take it easy. John Smith's (talk) 17:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I posted that so that you could have your fresh talk page started off a little more sexily. Beam 18:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Omsbudmen (Beam's comments have been cross posted from Bstone's talk page for ease of reading

Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(policy)#Ombudsmen_Committee_formal_proposal I was wondering if you have read this recently? I saw you at ANi saying that you had consensus for the Ombudsment suggestion. There's actually consensus to not perform it at all. Thought you'd want to know. Beam 22:25, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Beamathan. I have received your note on my talk page regarding OmbCom. I have to ask that you please keep all messages centralized to WP:OmbCom. Thanks. Bstone (talk) 00:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, this message was less about Ombudsmen, and more about you and what you're saying at places like the Admin Noticeboard. I thought perhaps you were just saying those things in ignorance, but if you already saw those comments then I don't know what to think. And you can call me Beam, all my friends and all my enemies do. Beam 00:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Beam, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. I have once again received your message but I must ask, again, that you please keep all discussion centralized to WP:OmbCom. Thanks. Bstone (talk) 00:34, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Heh, maybe you didn't read the contributions you're thanking me for. They aren't about Ombudsmen, they're about you and your comments (which also weren't at that place you want me to goto). Beam 00:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Beam, please keep all thoughts and ideas about OmbCom to the appropriate project talk page. I consider this the sum of our talk page conversation. Bstone (talk) 00:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Now, you're insulting me. I was trying to make sure that you weren't being ignorant, as I assumed good faith that you weren't just lying. There is no need to be a jerk towards me, or patronize me and considering we've had no prior interaction for which you to hold a grudge over there isn't even a petty basis to act like that. No matter, I consider this the "sum" of our discussion. Beam 00:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Now, now, Beam, calm down. Bstone thinks that the comment should go on the project page and you do not. I believe Bstone has got the message, but I'd like to make a simple request - stay civil and no personal attacks. And, of course, calm down. x42bn6 Talk Mess 01:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I understand. The problem Bstone had with you was that you didn't take it to the proper venue as where Bstone believed it should go. Users tend to have some sort of control over their userspace despite what WP:OWN says and perhaps you should have not pursued him in that way. I believe both sides have misunderstood each other, and what's best is for an apology from both sides (I've requested Bstone apologise, too). There's no need for so much WP:DRAMA over something so trivial.

On another note, it's not my first interaction with you. If you look at your it.wiki issue, you'll notice I've helped you there.  ;) x42bn6 Talk Mess 03:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. x42bn6 Talk Mess 03:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

ANI Notice

Hello, Beamathan. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Bstone (talk) 01:39, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Note

I thought it might be worth a mention that I rephrased my ANI post. I'm hoping its clearer now that my complaint is based on an actual abuse.
With respect, Jaakobou 08:41, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Guantanamo

I appreciate the notice. While I may not be the best at keeping my opinions to myself, I do not see this as a case of soapboxing.

The fact is that the source they intend to use is undeniably misleading. No reader of any ideology or temperment can be well served by reading it.

I attempted to explain this out by pointing to another source with facts that conflict with an inference the Times attempts to make. And if you doubt this, then please use their source for the article on Mohamed al-Kahtani (it's spelled differently in the Times but there are redirects to the alternate spelling). If everyone disputes that the source is misleading then let's see how far people are willing to stand by it.

I think I've been reasonable and civil. I've already expressed on that page that I was willing to abide by the majority's decision.
-- Randy2063 (talk) 17:44, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

*Blam*

I just Cabal'ed you! o_O Antelan 01:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

"Personal attacks"

Thanks for the laughs.--Miyokan (talk) 02:10, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

My response, which he couldn't handle being on his talk page, are posted below for transparency:

Are you ignorant?

If you really can't see how another editor could take offense, whether rightfully so or not, than you're ignorant. If you're just being childish, than at least you're not ignorant. Maybe both? Oh well, this is a rhetorical talk page section. But honestly, here's laughing at you. :D Beam 02:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Coaching

Hey there Beam,

I REALLY wanted to be your coach... you were such a strong supporter of mine a few weeks ago... but in all honesty, I just don't have the strength to do so right now. Too much drama follows you... it's not all your fault, but you choose to work in an highly contentious area where tempers run rampant. It's an area, that to be frank, I have zero interest... actually, it's not just zero interest, but an active aversion to the area. As such, I would be totally unprepared to comment on the drama that surrounds the subject. This would make it very difficult to give you constructive guidance. Sorry it didn't work out, but I just don't plan on spending that much time on wikipedia to deal with the drama that is kosovo...---Balloonman 05:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Adivce

This comment is very unproductive. Take my advice and read through the whole situation before passing judgments. Regards. — _Maggot 17:04, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

If this is your actual opinion and not a joke, then its still counter productive. How is it counter productive? It insights drama and prolongs discussion when its finally dying down (I've stopped short of calling it trolling), contrary to consensus, and adding nothing but discouraging words. If you had a more thoughtful comment or opinion, I wouldn't have said anything. But calling for an indef block, whether joking or not is disruptive at best. Even pschemp said it wasn't appropriate. I stand by my advice posted to your talk page. Regards. — _Maggot 19:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you're not aware of how Misplaced Pages works. To form consensus multiple members of the community give their opinion on a given situation/event. I, like yourself, gave my opinion. And you finding my opinion disruptive, and once your bad faith was seen to be wrong, you were informed I read it twice, for you to still stand by your advice is counterproductive. I hope you take my advice and calm down when it comes to reading other people's opinions. Here at Misplaced Pages, you may not agree with them all, and have to learn how to accept them. Good luck, I'm rooting for you. Beam 20:03, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh I'm definitely calm. And if there were non consensus to unblock, he wouldn't be unblocked right now. So theres no point in even discussing this with you. I can see that you still think your comment was appropriate. I'm willing to let it go, as long as your done professing your good faith on my talk page. — _Maggot 20:17, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I was professing your bad faith more so than my faith. Just so you know. :) Beam 20:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Stop moving all of my comments from my talk, over here. — _Maggot 03:30, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

While I recommend having conversations preserved in one place, it is considered bad form... I've been repremanded myself for doing it ;-)---Balloonman 05:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I only asked because it leaves the impression that I posted it to this page, since all of my links work here. It would have been another thing entirely if it was a copy and paste job, without clicking the edit this page tab. — _Maggot 11:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Burma. For the Mediation Committee, WjBscribe 01:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I've started a new page for structured mediation if you're interested. BigBlueFish (talk) 12:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:ANI

Thanks for pointing out that i've missed to inform User:Save humanity about by ANI posting. I forgot that last time too that i've opened a ani report. As per the 3rr issue, i think the central point is that it is clarified to the new user what wikipedia is and isn't, rather than pushing forth a block. --Soman (talk) 16:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

definitely not moot?

How do you know for sure? (Email if necessary.) —Giggy 12:21, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Moot first revealed his name as Chris Poole in these recent articles he did, and wouldn't use it as his screen name here. That combined with such a lame request, lead me to bet dollars to pints of blood that it isn't moot. Enough so, that I'm sure. Also, why would moot goto AN? It's just pretty ridiculous, and patented trolling of the 4chan type. Beam 22:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Warning

Warning was definitely a single...Maybe not released commercially but if you search for the video on Youtube or check the remastered version of the Ready To Die album with the black cover you'll see Warning actually appears before the One More Chance remix... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.122.66.190 (talk) 13:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:AN

I replied to your comment before you closed the discussion off. You missed the point entirely. :( Lradrama 17:03, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Heh, I replied to your reply on your talk page, you seemed to prove my point, the one I missed entirely. ;) Beam 17:05, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, thankyou for your reply. What do you mean "join us". Join us in what? Lradrama 17:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I mean, just for clarification...you mean join you in trying to obtain what is best for Misplaced Pages? I most surely will, but tbh, I have already spent over a year and a half doing just that. Lradrama 17:12, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Honestly? Join "us" as in "me" (lol), by just looking past that Giano bullshit (excuse my french). It's obvious the kid is a jerk, no question as far as I'm concerned. But his incivility is timid and most times seems a response to others abusing civility and baiting him. Take a look at my block log. I had issues with an admin who, at least to me (and eventually to others who backed me), abused the civility rule to remove a personal problem, the problem being me. So by join us, i mean join me, in not letting one jerk prevent the 'pedia from improving.

Personally I see the civility policy being abused by admins who disagree with a user, or a user's attitude. And, at least in this case, the user is productive and helps wikipedia. So what if he's borderline uncivil? I truly believe in WP:Ignoring_Personal_Attacks. Especially when they are passive or minor in nature. Civility policy is abused so much and needlessly. I almost quit the 'pedia over claims of me being uncivil, I wonder how many already have? Anyway I hope you don't think I'm an asshole like most people, I truly believe in this project and I hope me and you can be friends. No bullshit, I truly do. (Again excuse my Bastille day language). Beam 17:16, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I fully support your desire to improve Misplaced Pages to its fullest extent. And I admire your desire just to ignore (quote) the jerk (unquote). But incivility is still not tolerated here, and Giano has got away with rather a lot. Now it sounds like I'm whining again. ;) I fulyl understand what you are saying. This Giano issue has rumbled on for many months now, and we all just want to get it sorted that's all. But nothing can ever be done here without everyone falling out. Which is why your message just then was the highlight of my 'pedia day. You deserve a barnstar for that one. And yes, we are friends. :) x Lradrama 17:23, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

---See my user page for the best Barnstar I've gotten so far---Beam 17:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not often people manage to sort out a differing of opinion in this way. Yes, I hope we do interact many times in the future. For the sake of sanity on both parts. Many thanks, best wishes, and happy editing! Lradrama 17:35, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Thingy

You can take anything from my user pages and stuff, it's all released under the GFDL, after all.

I'd avoid using words like "libel", however, per WP:NLT. x42bn6 Talk Mess 17:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Which part do you need? The "desktop" or the "console window"? x42bn6 Talk Mess 18:05, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

"its interpretation of international law"

Hi. I'm not sure yet if your proposed rewording is best — let's see if others will go along with it — but in any event, you probably wanted to say "its interpretation of international law" (otherwise it's ungrammatical). Again, since I believe Kosovo and Serbia both think international law is on their side in this dispute, I'm uneasy about citing an appeal to international law in connection with one side's claim only. Richwales (talk) 18:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The "original" wording said that Serbia "continues to claim sovereignty over" Kosovo. I think that was a better wording than "continues to recognize Kosovo (as a province, etc.)". Given that the paragraph is already talking about "recognition" in the sense of recognizing (or not) the recent declaration of independence, using "recognize" in this other sense seems confusing to me. Richwales (talk) 18:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Silly Misplaced Pages namespace pages

Please don't create silly Misplaced Pages namespace pages like Misplaced Pages:DoUA. They're really not necessary. --Deskana (talk) 03:25, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

@Deskana, ahh... you ruined all our fun! (But seriously dude, prob not the best idea). Tiptoety 03:48, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

ASG beam=

I meant DAB but I typed your name. The messages (plural) you left in my talk page weren't exactly "user friendly", don't jump the gun over one mistake. And I'd like to believe that I haven't been a jerk towards you. Point me where I have lied or made a gesture of bad nature towards you in the last few weeks? You said that my talkpage has "blatant bias"..point where this is so, I'll post to you my talk page:

This the page of Ari d'Kosova (nickname: Ari), I check this page, if I write on your page please REPLY ON MINE. --VIVA KOSOVA, long live democratic Republic of Kosova.

-Ari 07/15/2008 All TALKPAGE deleted, not archieved.

Chill Out

PS, I'm not angry or more happier than before the Starbuckscoffee I had, I'm simply me as I was. Don't think you have lost my trust or anything, I'm not taking this in a way to hurt my feelings. Ari d'Kosova (talk) 18:25, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

The jerk thing was saying that I was against you when in fact I was on your side! No matter, it was just a mistake. And the whole VIVA KOSOVA sentiment is indicative of blatant bias. While I know you can put down your feelings for the sake of NPOV others might not want to think so. Beam 20:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Burma move tag

Unfortunately it will have to go on the main page, as it is the main page that is protected not the talk page, and that bot'll be back again if it ends up on the talk page. Also, I don't really know enough of "wikicoding" to get the tag to be smaller, and if you haven't worked it out, then I can't really help you. If I get time later tonight, I may have a look around for any info on making tags smaller or whatever, but right now, I guess as-is will have to do. Deamon138 (talk) 21:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: My hatred

What's up that? --Captain-tucker (talk) 00:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

For what, reverting a vandalism edit in the Boston Red Sox article?--Captain-tucker (talk) 01:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't get you, are you not a member of WP:WikiProject Boston Red Sox? --Captain-tucker (talk) 01:14, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

So what are you mad because I beat you to the revert?--Captain-tucker (talk) 01:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I will try and be a little slower next time. OK? --Captain-tucker (talk) 01:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

you shut your whore mouth

An open letter from the Misplaced Pages Review

This is a message to Beam,

What the fuck do you think this is, some place where you can just waltz in unannounced and be received with arms wide open? WELL FUCK THAT! This is motherfucking Misplaced Pages, bitch. WE call the shots. WE ALWAYS get shotgun. WE don't give a fuck who you are, because WE are infinitely more important than you. WE are always first in line. WE always fuck the hot chick before she gets acne and settles for you. WE rob banks, charities, and ANYONE else who fucking pisses us off. This place is more than just a place, faggot, it is an IDEOLOGY. And this ideology says you need to GET THE FUCK OUT.

No one here will ever like you. WE have already established cliques, slop-worthy-hoes, and prop-worthy-bros, GOT IT? WE are the ideology of elitism, exploitation, and lulz. This isn't a fucking game, kid, so don't try to tag along. You're talking to people who have been around the block AND THEN SOME. WE pioneered class. WE made 'cool' cool. And you? What have you done? Jerked off in the shower? WE INVENTED JERKING OFF IN THE SHOWER, you stupid bitch. There is a clear-cut, defined, infinitely thick WALL between you and us. WE built the wall that keeps you fags OUT. So don't try to act like you know what the fuck is going on, because you don't. You just do NOT.

But you really think you can compete with the Review? LOL WOW Don't make me start flaming you. Are you forgetting who we are? WE are the ones who film people like you getting fucking destroyed by us. WE will rip your ASSHOLE out of your fucking rectum, STITCH IT on top of your pitiful dick hole, and then fuck you in the VAGINA we just made for you. SO WE MAKE YOU INTO A BITCH. Do you get it now? This site isn't a game, it isn't a place to 'chill' with your fags, and it isn't some fucking haven where people like you can get acceptance from people like US. IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. JUST GTFO