| Revision as of 06:30, 21 August 2008 editOhconfucius (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers328,947 edits →More massive blanking← Previous edit | Revision as of 06:30, 21 August 2008 edit undoBadagnani (talk | contribs)136,593 edits →Massive blankingNext edit → | ||
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| The article is a thorough mess, and I thought the comments of the talk page were indicative of a consensus. Furthermore, I see little need to have elaborate ] when the related topics are clearly linked to. So, unless anyone can demonstrate how these subjects which I removed have anything but a tangential relation to the games, they should remain deleted. ] (]) 05:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC) | The article is a thorough mess, and I thought the comments of the talk page were indicative of a consensus. Furthermore, I see little need to have elaborate ] when the related topics are clearly linked to. So, unless anyone can demonstrate how these subjects which I removed have anything but a tangential relation to the games, they should remain deleted. ] (]) 05:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC) | ||
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===Massive blanking (username of blanking editor removed by said editor)=== | ||
| Please undo , as without consensus it is considered disruptive. Thank you. ] (]) 05:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC) | Please undo , as without consensus it is considered disruptive. Thank you. ] (]) 05:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 06:30, 21 August 2008
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Gender verification
There are reports in the Western news media that gender verification will be in effect in Beijing. According to the article gender verification in sports, it has "been officially stopped by the International Olympic Committee in 1999". Wonder if someone can verify this. --Voidvector (talk) 15:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
IOC: Beijing Briefing Kit
Beijing Briefing Kit, 3 August 2007, Volume 4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by DL5MDA (talk • contribs) 22:18, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
NYT article on NBC tape delay backlash
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/sports/olympics/09nbc.html?hp
Good article on NBC's futile efforts to censor (online) footage of the opening ceremonies within the US. --Madchester (talk) 04:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
NBC West Coast Primetime Delay Very sad —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.122.28.117 (talk) 03:47, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
- If you're on a satellite dish, you should be able to get east coast... 70.55.86.69 (talk) 11:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
- Added my contribution. Edit as you see fit. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 05:56, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Concerns or controversies?
Let's just say it like it is: these are controversies. Having the article named "Concerns..." is weak. Barrylb (talk) 08:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
- Poor crowd turn out is not controversial. BillyTFried (talk) 19:54, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
- China faking the ages of its athletes is.Rhinowing (talk) 01:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
- Several of the controversies in the article describe events (rampant forced disappearances, persecution, apartheid, forcible transfer of population) that may qualify as crimes against humanity in accordance with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. "Concerns" does indeed sound less partisan, but may not be appropriate anymore. — C M B J 22:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
- You have actually mentioned the primary reason why "concerns" is used. As per WP:NPOV, wikipedia is not a partisan advocate of any one viewpoint, and is less-partisan terms are certainly appropriate.--Huaiwei (talk) 11:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
- Several of the controversies in the article describe events (rampant forced disappearances, persecution, apartheid, forcible transfer of population) that may qualify as crimes against humanity in accordance with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. "Concerns" does indeed sound less partisan, but may not be appropriate anymore. — C M B J 22:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Requested move
It is undeniable that some events that have happened before the Games (for example the torch relay) and during the Games have been controversial. Therefore, naming the article "Controversies over the 2008 Summer Olympics" rather than "Concerns..." seems to be a more accurate, neutral name because "concerns" does not accurately represent the level of controversy that these events have generated. -Paul1337 (talk) 15:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
I suggest that the following sections are concerns, not controversies; and therefore the article could be split, but would be inappropriate to rename as proposed.
4 Environmental and health issues
* 4.1 Air pollution concerns
o 4.1.1 Air Quality Measurements in Beijing
* 4.2 Weather forecasting
* 4.3 Water and drought history
* 4.4 Algal bloom
* 4.5 Locust prevention
* 4.6 Oil slick
6 Terrorism
* 6.1 Sabotage plot
For example, Air Quality: there was no dispute about the facts or the extent to which they were relevant.. there was just a concern which gave rise to various activities to make the air cleaner. Neither was there controversy over what constituted over-polluted air, because this is regulated and benchmarked. I propose that on this basis, the article could be split, but is not appropriate for it simply to be moved. Tsuchan (talk) 17:16, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Spelling consisting
Madchester- It doesn't matter what spelling IOC uses. (See Manual of Style, which refers only to a strong connection to a particular region.) Moreover, China uses American spelling (with logical puntuation -- just like Misplaced Pages!) on their Olympic Web site, though that, too, is irrelevant. Let's follow WP policy here! The article started out with American spelling; let's keep it that way. (And let's keep it consistent!) Thanks. PeterH2 (talk) 07:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed, I believe in China its common to use American spellings, only in Hong Kong and other colonies will you find more British influence to be common. .:davumaya:. 10:13, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- Firstly, Misplaced Pages's MOS indicates that we actually have no preference towards one variant of English over another.
- Second, the best solution is to substitute those words with multiple spellings with ones that are common across all variants of English. i.e., criticize/criticise to denounce, organize/organise to form, index, etc. Also when you're taking quotations from a source, you should still be reproducing it word for word, even if its based on a different spelling variant. I've made the appropriate fixes using the appropriate synonyms, except for one word ("politicising"), which was directly quoted from the BBC article.
- The reason I referred to the IOC standard, is because we use the organization as the main reference for Olympic articles. I remember moderating over an edit war at Talk:2006_Winter_Olympics_medal_count with multiple editors trying to promote their different counting systems, instead of following the one established by the IOC. --Madchester (talk) 19:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't this comment section be "Spelling Consistency" rather than "Spelling consisting", which is grammatically meaningless? In the substance of this discussion, in fact China famously uses Chinese; not British English, not American English. And it is irrelevant to the issue: this is the English version of Misplaced Pages... the language of China has no bearing on it. There are a lot more serious - terribly serious - problems in this article than the spelling. And if spelling is to be brought up, "logical puntuation" is a spelling mistake in any brand of English of which I know. Tsuchan (talk) 17:30, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Ticket scalpers
here, I wodner if this should be included or wait to see what develops. Katana Geldar 07:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
2008 Kunming bus bombings
Should these bombings be mentioned? I'm not sure if they are, but I can't tell. Spencer 21:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
- yes because they are fundamentally a threat to the Games posed by the terroists (or whatever they call themselves). Maybe there should be a new section named safety; as this is not an isolated event, there has been a few potential threats made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingramhk (talk • contribs) 16:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
The begining singer
I read while look on the drudge report that the girl who "sang" the song was not singing it, instead she was chossen because the girl that was choosen for her voice had buck teath. Should this be mentioned, and no I can not find the site where it was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Not G. Ivingname (talk • contribs) 15:48, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I remember I saw it on a news report. They said she wasn't cute/pretty enough (I knew something didn't look right). 12.74.209.109 (talk) 02:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Age of Chinese Gymastics
Though there is nothing offical about this, and might not be apporpriate, but is widely thought that the chinese olimpic team is underaged, though on there pasports it says they are 16, but even the person covering the games says they looked to young, If anyone can find something offical to comfirm or denie this, that would be great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Not G. Ivingname (talk • contribs) 16:03, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
- A section on this topic has been added to the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/Concerns_over_the_2008_Summer_Olympics#Possibly_Underage_Gymnasts BillyTFried (talk) 19:42, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
The IOC is not investigating the age, even though their is monting evidence? I heard they were, though I did not read it personally though. is there anyone who can look for evidence of this?--Not G. Ivingname (talk) 21:55, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
- Why are concerns over one event appearing in this article, when they should appear in the respective event page? This is not an issue which concerns the entire games, and if anything, doping is of far greater concern across all sports.--Huaiwei (talk) 11:29, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm not clear why age is a controversy. In the 2008 Olympics Tom_Daley_(diver) was a 14-year old diver from Great Britain, but that doesn't seem to be controversial. If it is to be a controversy suitable for recording in an encyclopaedia, the minimum age needs to be recorded and a credible citation to a IOC rule provided. Tsuchan (talk) 16:16, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
The article says:
Former noted coach and NBC guest commentator Béla Károlyi has said that the 2008 Chinese women's gymnastics team cheated by using athletes who did not meet the minimum age requirements. He and his wife stated that "They are using half-people. One of the biggest frustrations is, what arrogance. These people think we are stupid."
Surely this is opinion, gossip, tickle-tackle; not encyclopaedic. Tsuchan (talk) 16:25, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Empty Olympic seats cause concern
By Michael Bristow BBC News, Beijing
Chinese officials have admitted that they are concerned about the lack of spectators at some Olympic events.
They have hired volunteers, dressed in yellow shirts, to fill up empty venues and improve the atmosphere inside.
But Wang Wei, a senior official with the Beijing organising committee (Bocog), said other Olympics had experienced similar problems.
The comments came after spectators and journalists noticed that certain venues were far from full, even though all events are sold out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7555509.stm
BillyTFried (talk) 19:51, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Foreigners taken away by Beijing police for instigating "Tibet independence"
BEIJING, Aug. 13 (Xinhua) - Seven Americans and one Japanese national were taken away by Beijing police on Wednesday noon for fomenting "Tibet independence" at a park, police said. At around 12:20, the eight people were gathering at the China Ethnic Culture Park in the northern part of urban Beijing, waving flags symbolizing "Tibet independence" and shouting slogans supporting "Tibet independence". Police also said the eight entered China on tourist visas. The Beijing police was considering cutting their stay period in China and asking them to leave China. Editor: Bi Mingxin
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/13/content_9268286.htm
BillyTFried (talk) 20:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Protests still unwelcome in Beijing
China has set aside three parks during the Olympics, to allow people to demonstrate. But, as the BBC's Michael Bristow finds out, the parks are empty and those who apply for permission to protest are even finding themselves arrested.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7559217.stm
BillyTFried (talk) 01:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
77 Olympic protest requests, 0 approved, Applicants Arrested
BEIJING - Chinese authorities have not approved any of the 77 applications they received from people who wanted to hold protests during the Beijing Olympics, state media reported Monday. In July, China said protests would be allowed in three parks far from games venues. Tuesday is the last day anyone could apply for permission to protest during the games. "This is not realistic," Wang said. "We think that you do not really understand China's reality. China has its own version and way of exercising our democracy." There have been no demonstrations in the designated areas since the games started, though small unregulated protests have occurred in other parts of the city. Most of them have been conducted by foreigners who were swiftly deported after unfurling "Free Tibet" banners. Also Monday, a dozen people applied for permits to protest about being forcibly evicted from their homes to make way for redevelopment projects. As they gathered, plainclothes security officers videotaped them and took their photographs, a common method for Chinese authorities to keep track of dissenting voices and one that intimidates many Chinese. "I have lived all over since I became homeless, including tunnels, warehouses, on the street, and the houses of friends and relatives," Yang Shuangjun, 37, who lost his home in 2006, told AP reporters who were present. "What they have done to us is unlawful and unfair." Another petitioner, Sun Liwei, said she also has slept on the streets and relied on the kindness of friends since being kicked out of her home in 2005. "My heart aches," said Sun, a 52-year-old former teacher, her eyes filling with tears. "I have always believed in my government, even though I have lost everything. My possessions, my home, and my job were taken away from me. I don't feel like a citizen anymore."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080818/ap_on_re_as/oly_china_protests
BillyTFried (talk) 16:34, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Ara Abrahamian (Wrestler throws medal in protest)
here are two Reuters articles about the Swedish Wrestler, Ara Abrahamian, throwing his bronze medal on the mat and quiting the sport.
"Anger as Swedish wrestler loses on 'bad call"
"Swede throws down medal, faces probe"
Dreammaker182 17:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
just added this Rhinowing (talk) 01:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Issues With the Olympic Village's Religous Center
Possible new section: there are allegations that many athletes from various nations and religions are increasingly dissatisfied with the Religious Center. The complaints include that it’s hard to find, too small to house its worshippers, lacks competent religious clergy, who cannot speak or perform religious ceremonies in any other language outside their native Chinese. Athletes are apparently so angry that they repeatedly go to the center so that their multiple complaints get logged again and again to reinforce how bad it really is. Some people are arguing it’s just another example of Chinese control over religion, and what was previously taken for granted at other Olympics. Here’s a link to a Washington Post article on the subject. Some Olympians Dissatisfied With Religious Center
Also, shouldn’t the fact that Bela Karolyi was banned from the Gymnastics stadium a be added to the said section? I think its very pertitent that the most vocal critic of the Chinese Gymnastics Age Scandal wasn’t allowed access. Zidel333 (talk) 17:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
rower's bus crash?
Shouldn't the bus crash involving the Australian doctor and the athletes bus putting a bunch of Chinese in a van into critical condition be somewhere? 70.51.11.210 (talk) 14:01, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
Gold medal controversy
Would this be the proper place for the debate over the Liukin / Hexin results in the uneven bars competition? (no, i don't mean "Can we debate it, here, on the topic page....") it's being reported on some of the 24-hour networks, seems kinda newsworthy. if ya don't know what i'm talking about:
look over it yourself, see if it merits a reference on this page.
24.3.14.157 (talk) 12:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
- I would say that it probably doesn't merit a mention. The ruling was based on an established set of laws by the IOC. The only reason it was confusing was because this situation probably hasn't come up since the rules were implemented, and that IOC gymnastics rules differ from FIG rules. In fact, Nastia doesn't seem terribly bothered by the decision. Now, the women's vault competition, on the other hand, might deserve inclusion, if it gets any further attention. --SesanaP (talk) 16:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
- Can someone add a section about the f***ing (Yes I know the nicey nice rules so don't tell me) horrible judging (something simple like Judging Errors), since it appears the judges are A) being payed off or B) are incompetent dips***s who couldn't judge a minor league baseball game.--67.140.56.121 (talk) 16:18, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
- Americans are understandably concerned over the results of the women's uneven bars competition, but so far I don't see evidence that it rises to the level of the other issues in the concerns article. Ultimately, we have to be encyclopaedic. If the controversy persists, we could include it, but I suspect that at least half of the material in this article will be cut, and probably much more over time.
- For the record, the criticisms of the uneven bars competition are that 1) the Australian judge's scoring appeared to ignore several deductions from He Kexin's routine, while making several deductions from Nastia Liukin not made by other judges. Also, 2) the tie-breaking system was confusing to the viewing public. There is also the women's vaults, where the bronze medalist Cheng Fei fell during one of her routines, but nevertheless outscored Alicia Sacramone. Sacramone did not make any major errors, though her starting difficulties were also lower than Cheng's. Nevertheless, the decision remains controversial in the United States.
- I don't see a problem with including the content, but honestly in a few months the real work of cutting away the extraneous material will begin. Any or none of these stories could survive, depending on media attention. Wellspring (talk) 22:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
- While it's true that this maybe more of a matter of confusion over the judging, there are all kinds of "confusion" over legal rulings (especially criminal sentences and perceived leniency/severity), and those are usually considered worth noting. 24.3.14.157 (talk) 00:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
- The Chinese were incontrol of the event I noticed after looking at the recording of it again, it was mentioned by the reporter. Just to be noted, they also said that the American girl had a better porfomince as well, just going by what they said...--Not G. Ivingname (talk) 01:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
- I think this page should be reserved for issues with games organization. This includes China human rights, censorship, broadcasting delays, ticketing, pollution, participants' safety... all of these concern the games as a whole. Individual controversies are (IMO) beyond the control of the games organizers and so beyond the scope of this article. In this category I would place age controversies, judging controversies, drugs cheats etc. These belong in pages on individual events but not on this page. Peter Ballard (talk) 01:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
- Or to put it another way: "Is it due to the fact that the games are in Beijing?" If the answer is "no", then it doesn't belong on this page. IMHO. Peter Ballard (talk) 02:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
China has been cheating in gymnastics by using 14 year old girls , that obviously bears mention here. What is more interesting is : How much has the IOC been helping them cover it up? JeffBurdges (talk) 16:17, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
State training and expectations of Chinese athletes
Even to take the subtitle at face value, this is not a concern or controversy about the China Olympics: it's about the Chinese Olympic team. It's no more relevant to this article than 'High Expectations of Spanish Athletes' would be. On that basis, I suggest this section is removed from the article.
The initial sentence is a value judgement; and its place in this article about controversies makes it a value judgement set against the pressure and expectations placed on athletes of other countries.
"As the host country, China has high expectations, putting immense pressure upon athletes and coaches alike."
The following sentence is not an example of a controversy about the China Olympics (or even about the Olympic team), it introduces the subject of disappointment about an injured athlete:
"Liu Xiang, the defending Olympic champion for the 110 meter hurdles, had pulled out of the heats with an injury."
I cannot see the relevance to this article. If there is a controversy, it can only be about whether he was genuinely injured or not. That would be a sub-subject of the athlete's personal entry in the encyclopaedia, if at all.
If it did have a relevance to this article, the following detail is hopelessly flawed. Just to detail a few points:
There is no citation for this comment:
"Liu's coach had been told by government officials that "if Liu could not win a gold medal in Beijing, all of his previous achievements would become meaningless.""
Every citation in this paragraph is taken from 'The Christian Science Monitor Olympic Glory Blog'. It hardly seems an appropriate reference for an encyclopaedia. And it isn't even well represented: the quotations just don't exist in the article.
The second half of this section talks about 'the Chinese government's training regime in the state academies'. It is opinion and comment, citing human interest stories in the Herald and Tribune and The New York Times newspapers. To be a controversy even about China's treatment of its athletes (which is not this article), it would have to cite one or more comparative studies of the way different countries treat their athletes. Tsuchan (talk) 17:14, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Murder of American coach's father-in-law
This section is a news article about Crime. It's not about Concerns or Controversies related to the 2008 Summer Olympics. On that basis, I suggest that it is removed from Misplaced Pages (news, not encyclopaedic; Crime not Controversy). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsuchan (talk • contribs) 18:03, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
- Can you be more clear about your concern? Badagnani (talk) 18:07, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to oblige, but it's difficult to be clearer than the precise comments I've already given: - It is news, it's not encyclopaedic - It is a Crime, this article is about Concerns and Controversy regarding the 2008 Olympics - Hence, the section is not in keeping with the Misplaced Pages guidelines and therefore I believe it should be removed from an article about Concerns and Controversy regarding the 2008 Olympics
Of course, that's my opinion... please feel free to voice any justification for it being a legitimate part of this article.
Tsuchan (talk) 19:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Suggest a Major Overhaul and Clearout of This Topic
I suggest that this page needs a pruning - probably by about 90%. It has wandered way off-topic, and been annexed as a vehicle for propaganda, news, opinion and comment, and other non-encyclopaedic purposes; as well as extended passages on the subject of other topics, where in fact a "See Also" link would have been justified at most.
I suggest first-of-all, separating relevant content into two pages:
- Concerns
- Controversies
Then think very carefully about what is an encyclopaedic matter of record relating to Concerns about the 2008 Summer Olympics and Controversies about the 2008 Summer Olympics.
For me, the potential controversies pertaining to the 2008 Summer Olympics itself, are these:
- Opening Ceremony
- Empty Seats
- Political Controversy - something along the lines that the following political protests associated themselves to the Beijing 2008 Summer Olympics:
- Tibetan Independence - summary referencing the Torch-carrying protests (link to relevant article)
- Threatened boycotts and head-of-state grandstanding related to Human Rights in China - possible summary of which leaders protested and how (link to relevant article(s))
- China's involvement in Burma - note that Steven Spielberg quit on this topic (link to relevant article)
- Internet Censorship challenged by foreign media (link to relevant article)
It may also be worth making a comparison with controversies previous Olympic Games (for example, figures on the number of positive drug tests in Athens 2004 v. Beijing 2008; ticket touting and on-line ticket fraud, compared to Athens 2008).
On the other hand, I don't see how it's relevant to discuss the Chinese laws on protests during the Olympics, unless the fact is that the law was changed for the Olympics. I haven't seen evidence that it's other than situation normal, except perhaps for the number of people challenging the law and the availability of foreign news crews to report it. It may be an issue, but it's not this topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsuchan (talk • contribs) 19:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC) Tsuchan (talk) 19:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
- Please sign posts by adding four tildes after your posting, thanks. Badagnani (talk) 19:03, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
- The 2008 Summer Olympics seem to be more controversial than many previous Olympics because they have actually generated controversy. Removing 90 percent of this article (most of it well sourced) will not alter this situation. Badagnani (talk) 19:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
- The article is in need of cleanup and NPOV checking, but pruning 90% (or perhaps even a much lower percentage) of the content would not be justifiable. Splitting the article is a very interesting thought, but could introduce new discrepancies and unintended implications when differentiating individual concerns from controversies. — C M B J 03:08, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- I think a review of the guidelines on coatrack articles would be worthwhile. Much of the content of this article seems to be about concerns over China, not concerns over the Games. Please note that I am not taking a position one way or the other regarding the concerns raised in this article. I am not suggesting that none of them are notable, or verifiable, or well-sourced. What I am saying is that this article is in danger of becoming a POV fork containing criticisms of China that cannot be shoehorned into the main Games article. Actual Games-related issues are getting buried as a result. - Eron 03:08, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- Please list specifics. The article covers a highly significant topic of great interest around the world, is notable, and largely well sourced. Badagnani (talk) 03:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- I will provide a few specific examples. Let's start with the first sentence. "Red China"? Who calls it that anymore? That is highly POV.
- The Protests section is very well sourced, but there is not a whole lot actually there. For example:
- The British Olympic Association (BOA) will require that before leaving for China, British Olympic team members sign an agreement, stating that they "are not to comment on any politically sensitive issues." However, BOA spokesman Graham Newsom stated that the BOA didn't intend to censor athletes, and referred to a rule in the International Olympic Committee charter which states, "No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas."
- What is the point? The BOA told its athletes not to do something... that has been disallowed since 1968, by the IOC.
- The Tibet, Darfur, and Burma sections are not about the Games; they are about political activists who want to use the occasion of the Games to further their agendas. Excellent strategy on their part and one that should be noted - in the appropriate articles.
- The Persecution of Christians section doesn't even mention the Olympics until the third paragraph.
- Algae... locusts... oil slicks... none of which appear to have affected the Games. (Or in the case of the locusts, even had anything to do with it.
- There is good and useful content about the Games in this article. But there are a lot of coats hanging on it as well. - Eron 03:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- The opening statement was highly inappropriate, and has been removed until the intro can be rewritten. Tibetan independence is a subject that most (irregardless of personal disposition) would agree irrefutably influenced the games. The section regarding persecution of Christians does not currently say the word Olympics until the third paragraph, but the statements throughout the section all refer to events that are specific to the Olympics. The environmental issues such as air pollution and algae have had a wide variety of related of related effects. I can agree that the article is in need of serious style and tone improvements, but the topics themselves mostly seem to pertain to the Olympics at this point. Much of the content could also be improved with clear and neutral summarization, or more subtle inclusion. — C M B J 05:15, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - "Red China" should not be used in this article. I agree that it should be replaced with a neutral term. Badagnani (talk) 03:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - I agree that the opening statement can be made more accurate, factual, and NPOV. Badagnani (talk) 05:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
The article is a thorough mess, and I thought the comments of the talk page were indicative of a consensus. Furthermore, I see little need to have elaborate coatrack sections when the related topics are clearly linked to. So, unless anyone can demonstrate how these subjects which I removed have anything but a tangential relation to the games, they should remain deleted. Ohconfucius (talk) 05:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Massive blanking (username of blanking editor removed by said editor)
Please undo this massive blanking, as without consensus it is considered disruptive. Thank you. Badagnani (talk) 05:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
More massive blanking
Please undo this massive blanking, as without consensus it is considered disruptive. Thank you. Further, as noted earlier, the edit replaced proper grammar with improper grammar. The sentence "The song Ode to the Motherland was recorded beforehand by another young girl, Yang Peiyi," was replaced by "The song Ode to the Motherland was pre-recorded by another Yang Peiyi." The new, improper version implies that there are two Yang Peiyis. Please, I am asking you in all good faith to carefully consider your edits and develop consensus before implementing them. This is particularly important at articles that are controversial. Badagnani (talk) 05:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- I feel obliged to defend myself now in the strongest possible terms: I have reverted the last entry posted here by Badagnani as an unacceptable personal attack. I thought I had clearly explained the basis of my removal of some blocks of text both in my edit summary and here, and my views were apparently in line with some fellow editors on this talk page. I stand by my assertion that the article was a complete mess in desperate need of cleanup. Please note that it was not I who initiated this debate, nor was I the one who tagged the article. To use my edit to the sentence on Ode to the Motherland to complain about my removal of coatracks and blatant political bias wreaks of the same pathethic attempts at vilification I experienced at the hands of the abovementioned user (and his cohort) in another article. It was ]http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Concerns_over_the_2008_Summer_Olympics&diff=233267411&oldid=233266177 a simple problem] which he could have fixed himself. I will not stand for being hunted like a witch. Ohconfucius (talk) 06:23, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
- Pages using WikiProject banner shell with duplicate banner templates
- NA-Class Olympics pages
- NA-importance Olympics pages
- WikiProject Olympics articles
- NA-Class Tibet pages
- NA-importance Tibet pages
- WikiProject Tibet articles
- NA-Class China-related pages
- NA-importance China-related pages
- WikiProject China articles
- NA-Class Hong Kong pages
- NA-importance Hong Kong pages
- WikiProject Hong Kong articles
- WikiProject templates with unknown parameters
- NA-Class International relations pages
- NA-importance International relations pages
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